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Self-esteem issues related to the feminine beauty site

This website does not intend to affect women’s self-esteem or body-esteem.  However, it does so in many cases, and some clarifications in this regard are necessary.  This is an addendum to a previous attempt to address self- and body-esteem issues related to the goals of this site.

This site aims to promote feminine beauty in the public realm.  The reasons why are described on the FAQ page.  It must be understood that there is a difference between exalting a given look and effectively ignoring all other looks on the one hand, and ignoring a given look and denigrating all other looks on the other.  Either method promotes a given type of look, and this site uses the former method, i.e., exalting feminine beauty rather than denigrating other looks.  In practice, there is a fine line between the two methods since either method requires one to present contrasts, and those prone to seeing a half full glass as a half empty one will see this site as disparaging the looks of the great majority of women.

For the unconvinced, I will argue in defense of the notion that my intent is to exalt feminine beauty rather than demote non-feminine beauty.  Firstly, impressions to the contrary may be a function of the fact that English is not my native language and limited English proficiency makes it difficult to translate my intent with precision.  Secondly, the reader will note the focus of this site on models and beauty pageant contestants.  Celebrities such as movie stars and singers are rarely addressed by me, and usually in response to readers’ comments or if the celebrity has a modeling or beauty pageant contestant past.  Many gossip/tabloid-style websites pick on the looks of celebrities but usually do not bother addressing the looks of fashion models that are little known except to fashion aficionados.  These sites are also not in the business of explicitly promoting a given look, making a strong case that they are particularly interested in picking on ‘undesirable’ looks.  The closest approximation to denigrating looks occurs within this site in the context of illustrating correlates of aesthetics as documented in the scientific literature or contrasting public preferences with the fashion world’s preferences.  Therefore, it should be clear that if trashing various looks is a goal of this site, then it is not the goal of this site.
 
But if denigrating various looks is one of the goals of this site, then what purpose does it serve?  It is not required to promote feminine beauty.  Placing feminine beauty next to other types speaks for itself; there is no need to use demeaning terminology though sometimes it is necessary to call a spade a spade or say that ‘the Emperor has no clothes,’ which may be seen as demeaning by some readers.  One could speculate that I derive a perverse pleasure from speaking ill of most types of looks or derive some sort of satisfaction from trashing the looks of models and celebrities, but if so, it is curious why I don’t generally bother with very well-known celebrities from movies and pick on obscure models (example) instead.  It is also curious why I don’t pick on the obese when a perusal of this website will make one easily estimate that most likely I do not aesthetically appreciate the obese form.  Again, the answer is that this site is not about promoting a look by demeaning other looks.  An alternative motive underlying this site could be that I was dumped by a thin/masculine woman and have decided to take out my frustrations on all such women, but to those so inclined, they should read around this site, especially note materials on statistical distributions (example), and ask themselves if the person behind this site does not have the intellect to avoid extrapolating from the particular to the general, i.e., if one thin/masculine woman is bad then they all are.

The reader should also ask why does this website focus on models and beauty pageant contestants?  If it is about looks then why not address female celebrities such as big-name singers, TV personalities and actresses when doing so is bound to bring in a lot more web traffic and spread the message?  The answer is that this site is about looks in certain contexts.  Models are selected because of their looks and a true beauty pageant should select contestants based on looks.  Both modeling and beauty pageants intersect with the issue of aesthetics, and when it is not possible to find mainstream sources of feminine beauty appreciation, it is time to address the reasons why and work toward seeing feminine beauty in the limelight, which is what this website is about.  I don’t have anything against skinny or masculinized women, and I don’t have problems with using masculinized women in modeling scenarios where there is a need for it, as in using non-feminine women to market athletic products.  In addition, if a company wished to cast thin or masculinized women models for any purpose or someone wanted to organize a beauty pageant focusing on thin or masculinized women, I do not have a problem with it.  However, some people are responsible for making masculinized women de rigueur in the typical modeling scenario or mainstream beauty pageant.  Not even lingerie models have been spared and there is not a single major beauty pageant that focuses on feminine beauty.  Time to do something about it.  My problems are with the people responsible, and these are not the masculinized models/beauty pageant contestants.  The culprits are the male homosexuals who dominate the fashion business.  Those wondering how their influence extends to beauty pageants should understand that the big beauty pageants usually have homosexuals working behind the scenes and that it is not possible to realize big beauty pageants without sponsorship, a lot of it coming from the fashion and beauty industries.

This should hopefully clarify my intentions, but clarifications notwithstanding, some women are bound to be offended by this site and have their self-esteem or body-esteem undermined.  To these women I offer my sincere apology.  Again, it is not my intent to affect how women feel about themselves.  Sometimes it is not possible to come up with a win-win scenario in spite of one’s best intentions, and though I firmly believe that the good that will come out of this site will far exceed the bad, I do realize that some negatives are inevitable, and these shall constitute my sins for which I will have to atone.

Comments

Self-esteem issues related to the feminine beauty site 07/13/2009 - 02:53

by Emily link

"American girl, I think it's obvious by now that you and your alter egos here are the only racists. Your virulent hatred of whites is barely contained, and is threatening to explode any minute now. Just thhought you'd like to know."

Here she goes again throwing accusations of racism that dont exist at everyone left right and centre. Your full of it Joker. If any reference of this comment is to me There is abosolutely categorically no racism in any of my comments and no association to such a concept either besides I have already answered ALL your questions above and you have just proved it true aswell "You cant even look anyone in the eye and answer them directly". You dont have the balls its as CLEAR AS THAT. Whats funnier is that you dont have the balls to face the fact you dont have the balls you continue deluding yourself with your word games to cover up the weakness that lies beneath its like this with you what shall we play today except its the same game everyday I spy with my little eye somethings begining with A and E "Alter Ego",I spy with my little eye somethings begining with R "Racism",I spy with my little eye somethings begining with V and R "Virilant Hatred".Your full of it full of the talk, talk without balls. As for virulant hatred is that the farthest accusation you can throw??? Is that it? Is that as far as you can stretch it? Can you not go beyond the sly racism word game? Your a hilarious Joker. Your so clueless as to the game. Your quick off the mark to BRING OUT the viriulent hatred for whites present inside others you stretch it to the limit you go to the deepest depths to make sure you bring that hatred out so everyone can see it but WHAT ABOUT YOU? Why dont you bring out your virilunt hatred for non whites for the world to see as you are so fond of bringing it out in others so to speak??? Why keep it hidden? Why dont you bring it out like you so fondly want to bring it out of others??? Why dont you put the cards on the table??? Beside no dignity no balls have you?? When its out you dont like what you see do you??? LOL. You dont understand the game, Your a clueless Joker! The point is not the virilunt hatred one possess the point is can you carry your virilunt hatred through with conviction to the end? as far as your concerned its been obvious for a long while now what the answer is. Unless the talk translates to action it merely remains an accusation and not a fact its basically living in lal la land and not the real world. Talk has to translate to action.Inside you want to admit you havnt got it it but you cant. You dont have the face to. Go back to playing I spy....

"You have to accept that many whites who have a high standard often find race mixed people less than attractive, and they have a serious immune system flaw, too, so it's not something worth promoting."

Your telling everyone what to accept so accept that it wont change the fact your a Joker! You'll still be a Joker in other wrods.

"White Nordic women remain the most feminine, attractive and desired ones, generrally speaking, and that is not something you will change by making a fool of yourself here, you see. :)"

Why generally speaking why not absolutely speaking? Why dont you speak with conviciton instead of half heartedness? Why do you speak generally so much??? Why dont you speak in the absolute? Why dont you speak absolutely? Is it because you dont like what you will hear??? Is it because the answer is again as usual obvious. White nordic women might remain the most feminine attractive and desired ones if that will shut you up but its still not something that will change the fact your a Joker!

" "You will never hear this from race mixing promoters, who apparently are either unaware or ignore the fact that mixed race individuals are dying from diseases that require bone marrow transplants because their mixed genes make it impossible to cure them."

I was unaware of this problem. I've done some research and indeed many multiracial individuals have a tough time finding donor matches. This kinda scary, this isn't talked about that enough." "

I don't think this serious problem gets enough coverage. I didn't know about this until a few days ago, when I stumbled upon an article by accident. Why this isn't talked about in the media, I don't know, because it seems that tragedies are happening in silence all over the world all the time.

I would never bring a child into this world with that serious flaw in the immune system. I would rather adopt a child of pure race. To hear your sick child ask you "Who is going to help me now, mom?", must be absolutely heart-crushing.

It seems like the DNA in the bone marrow is foreign when you have a race mixed child. Your own kids have foreign DNA, often impossible to match since there are so many possible racemixed types, and can often not be donors for you, or vice versa. I think this speaks volumes.

Many people of mixed race are dying, and will die because of this, and practically no one writes about it.

Self-esteem issues related to the feminine beauty site 05/18/2009 - 18:01

by Emily link

"Only an idiot would think that you can open the doors to mass-immigration by other races/ethnicities without any consequences to the white population living there originally."

Is this an admission Ive found here? That you are to blame and you (white europeans)are idiots.

I find it hard to believe that I have "virulent hatred" towards whites, considering that I am white, my children are white, my fiance is shite, my parents are white......stupidest shit I've ever heard.

Fiance is WHITE, haha, bad typing, can't be perfect at everything. But I have a life, full-time job, love life, friends, etc., so I can't make it my life's work to constantly be posting on this site. Others apparently do have the time, and not much else to do with their lives......very sad.

Hello, I have read this forum for a while. I am not the swedish Emily, I am actually another Emily who is African-American. In regards to mixed race individuals, I believe that the solution to their bone-marrow problem is not being addressed: It is not that "race-mixing" is evil and should never be done, the solution should be that their should be more donors of mixed "races."

As a woman of mixed heritage, I think people are missing the big picture: people are people are people. It does not matter your background, your ethnicity or whatever drivel Emily spews.

To Emily, it is good that you are proud of who you are and where you come from. I am proud too of my heritage. I am proud of my African Heritage, My Scottish heritage, My British Heritage, and whatever else heritage there may be in me. I just caution you against the hateful speech you spew, and the hurtful things you say. An indian person, an African American person, a swedish person or whatever ethnicity you can bring up is beautiful in their own way, and is equally important. I believe, as a woman created of God, that every group of people has some kind of beautiful feature about them that is to be admired. I think African women have very beautiful skin, hair, eyes and teeth. I think that Northern Europeans have very beautiful eyes and features. I think Indian women (the majority of them who I have seen) are generally very beautiful. I really like the facial structures of the japanese, and their hair I think is beautiful, along with their eyes. I do honestly like the noses of Eastern Europeans. I like the Red hair of Irish people. I love blue eyes and brown eyes, because their is such a range of shades and tints in those eye colors. My favorite combination in a white person is Brown hair and deep blue eyes. I also like the curls of an African woman with brown eyes too. There is so much variety, and so much beauty to be found in the world, why waste your time with arguements of who is the most beautiful, or why you don't like such and such ethnic group. Why waste your time venting about "race-mixing" and your perceived problems with that. Life is too beautiful to waste your time picking things you might find wrong with people. As mentioned before, I am African-American. I have been told, by members of all races, that I am beautiful girl, but that doesn't mean I puff my chest out and put down others looks. I have features that are beautiful, and things that are not so beautiful. The point is, I know I am not the most beautiful girl in the world (and I don't think there can every be such a thing) but I am happy to be in the club. Now, like I said before, people are people are people are people, and being such, they will continue from now into eternity to do what you hate: race-mix. I suggest emily that you stop hating such a non-issue and move on with your life, you will be a much happier person.

To those who dislike eric and Emily:

If you disagree with them, I would suggest not wasting your precious energy trying to change their minds. They have proven that they will not change. It is unfortunate for them, but oh well. Eric is the more temperate of two, and though I disagree with his analyses of beauty in different cultures and ethnicities, I sill take a lot of useful info from his site. Emily is a complete lost cause, and she will continue to spew hatred and belittle peoples of other races. That is just how she operates, so I would suggest that everyone just ignore her for two reasons: 1) because she is obviously a bigot (not because she likes being white but because she is very hateful to others) and 2) because she has nothing useful to say or anything to add to the discussion of beauty. All she is going to do is gripe about all she sees wrong with the world and how she hates mixed babies, so why bother.

There's my two cents. . .

From Emily L.

Self-esteem issues related to the feminine beauty site 07/14/2009 - 12:21

by Emily L. Mixed Race individuals.

"To those who dislike eric and Emily:

If you disagree with them, I would suggest not wasting your precious energy trying to change their minds. They have proven that they will not change. It is unfortunate for them, but oh well. Eric is the more temperate of two, and though I disagree with his analyses of beauty in different cultures and ethnicities, I sill take a lot of useful info from his site. Emily is a complete lost cause, and she will continue to spew hatred and belittle peoples of other races. That is just how she operates, so I would suggest that everyone just ignore her for two reasons: 1) because she is obviously a bigot (not because she likes being white but because she is very hateful to others) and 2) because she has nothing useful to say or anything to add to the discussion of beauty. All she is going to do is gripe about all she sees wrong with the world and how she hates mixed babies, so why bother. "

Emilys arguments are not to be misunderstood with Eriks. There is no disagrement or dislike on my part with Eriks arguments or towards Erik. Erik has made his arguments clear and when required has provided data evidence to back his claims. Eriks argument is about feminine beauty -Femininity is a correlate of beauty there is nothing about this statement I disagree with. Femininity is not synonymous with beauty but its a powerfull correlate of beauty. Beauty= femininity plus beauty. Beauty and Femininity need to be understood as being seperate concepts and the relationship between the two needs to be understood and the level at which they work with each other needs to be understood.This is a simple interpretation of the argument though the mystery of beauty is not as clear cut as some make it out to be but is much deeper than that. There is a great misunderstanding present with alot of people quickly jumping to assumptions and confusing Emilys arguments with Eriks instead of taking a step back and thinking twice before lashing out. Erik has NEVER argued and is NOT arguing that white European/Nordic women are the most beautifull women in the world. This is what Emily is or very strongly appears to be arguing. This is NOT Eriks argument and If you read and understand the WHOLE WEBSITE inside out you can never escape this conclusion either. In fact Erik clearly and catergorically states this to one commentator who accuses Erik of arguing that White european/Nordic women are the most beautifull women in the world(Unfortunately due to the sheer number of comments it was difficult for me to find the quote again but feel free to browse for it).In fact Erik appears to lend support and agreement to the opposite. He has clearly and categorically stated he has found many women of non-european background beautifull,he has been attracted to many non european women in fact he says too many to list which is quite a statement given what people are accusing him off and claiming he is all about and attributing to him. Erik has stated european women are overall more feminine "looking" but this is not to be mistaken or confused with or interpreted to mean european women are overall more "feminine" never mind the most feminine, because Erik has clearly not argued that. In other words what one looks and what one is are different. CIAO!

Sorry to many spelling mistakes previous comment read-

I spy with my little eye somethings begining with V and R "Virilant Hatred"

Should Read-

I spy with my little eye somethings begining with V and H "Virilant Hatred"

Byeeeeeee!

american girl wrote:
"I'm tired. But I still don't appreciate the attack from Emigree. That was just plain f-ed up bullshit. Unrefined language and swearing. American to the death!!"

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? [Matthew 7:3]

Speaking of american girl's "refined" language (just from the last two days):

"And I spent to (sic!) much time in college to tolerate her comments."

"That was just plain f-ed up bullshit (sic!)."

"I'm sure they're (sic!) very good universities in Stockholm."

"to your credit, you're right about bone marrow vs. organs. I'll reiterate that it was a rotation in what is a 5 year degree here in the States. You know, I am about 25% Scandinavian, the rest Irish, with one great-great native American grandmother." [what's the connecting thought here?]

"I will continue to visit this site, and read about the things that are relevent (sic!) to me, (...)"

"I find it hard to believe that I have "virulent hatred" towards whites, considering that I am white, my children are white, my fiance is shite (sic!), my parents are white......stupidest shit (sic!) I've ever heard."

american girl wrote:
"Your fan, Emigree attacked my intellect and education, and I responded in like."

american girl,

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I did not attack your education. I merely expressed my sincere amusement at your bragging publicly about your degrees at this forum. And not only bragging but also trying to use your nursing degree to belittle Emily (you said [to Emily]: "Are we really on equal ground here?"). After reading it I thought that it was really low class. Especially since you know nothing, I presume, about Emily's educational background. What if she is a Ph.D. in one of the health sciences? I used somewhat direct language to make my point. Hope you got it. And I have nothing against your great country. Sure, there are some good schools there (plus a bunch of lousy ones).

Anonymous- Your posts have many more errors than that. I find it funny that you keep correcting them and making the same mistakes. (If English is not your native lanuage, I apologize in advance.) If it is, please check your grammar, punctuation, and spelling. Also please use the correct form for the contraction of "you are" which is "you're." Any good points you make are lost because your posts are hardly readable with all the errors. (I do think you have a number of good points, and I want to be sure the meaning is clear!)

Just for the record, Emily (the Nordic one, not the latest one) suggested that you may be an alter ego of american girl. I'm not buying that because your writing style is much different.

On an unrelated point, while it is difficult for people of mixed race to find bone marrow donors, it is false to say that this is a fatal immune system "flaw." (Sorry, I couldn't let that one go. That's the main reason I'm posting tonight though I said I'd stop... couldn't resist a good train wreck, I suppose...) The issue with matching donors is merely a difference in types. It is not a flaw. The immune system functions just fine. It is only a problem in the case of needing a transplant which a very small number of people require. There need to be more donors to help solve this problem. The fact that their body has another flaw/disease that causes them to require the transplant in the first place, is the true problem. There isn't a correlation between mixed race and diseases that require bone marrow transplants as far as I am aware.

*Not that I don't make plenty of errors in my posts... I just noticed once grammatical error, and I'm sure there are more... Ugh.

Also, I'll acknowledge that american girl's posts also have grammatical errors that Emigree pointed out, but in fairness she did say she was tired, and everyone makes the occasional mistake.

Well, I just proved my point. There were more errors in that last post. It's almost 1:00 AM here. Time for me to go to bed!

Sorry for my "incohesiveness" of thought. And sorry for offending you by discussing my education. If my spelling or grammmatical errors and poor sentence structure is offensive......what are you talking about? I am a nurse who worked a double shift, with a muscular injury, it is usually around one or two a.m. when I have time to read this and post. If this thread has been reduced to you and others' editing it for grammar, sentence structure, spelling, etc., then GET A FUCKING LIFE, YOU TWAT!! Was that incohesive enough for you, Sycophant, I mean Emigree?

And there is absolutely no way that I would post here as anyone else, i.e., "anonymous". She (or he) is an altogether different person. The basic idea and theorum of Erik's site and data is what made it attractive to me. Not the small and insignificant amount of dumbfucks that spew their verbal bile. I can't be bothered with the shit Emily, and her jester, Emigree say that try to pass for comments. How about I edit a few of your comments, Emigree? I noted quite a few errors of yours as well.....several spelling errors, and a few punctuation as well. You also indented for a paragraph without a strong concluding sentence in your previous one...

"this tells a lot about inteligence"(sic)!!! -Emigree

YOU CAN'T EVEN SPELL INTELLIGENCE!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure that Emily is a scientist, undoubtedly. All of her information acquired has links attached so that we can we can benefit from her outstanding scientific education. Do you actually suspect that she has a PhD. If she does I'll publicly apologize and send her a dozen roses. She is extremely well-read, intelligent and articulate, but no PhD. And if being a very tragically and suddenly single parent at a very young age, putting yourself through a VERY good, and large East coast university, without EVER asking for a handout from anyone is bragging, then I will brag all day long. I have every reason to be proud of myself. I also happen to have an education and professional experience with several of the topics on this site, and cited that. I'm sure that egotist, Emily, would have done the same. I think you need to quit commenting to me. It's embarassing you.

Yes, still awake, I have to pull another 16 hour shift later this evening, 7pm to 7am the following day. I just decided to reread the things I wrote, and wondered if I'd feel any guilt at having totally gone off, but I don't. I've noticed how a lot of others, when writing responses on blogs like this use a lot of abbreviations, i.e.: omg, lol, btw....and the prose is more relaxed and casual. I was not, nor do I believe that anyone else is writing their Masters Thesis, so the manner in which people write will be much more casual. The point is, I found this website by mistake. I had a patient, a ballerina, who was injured, unable to perform or even exercize. She became obsessed with gaining weight (that I feel she needed to gain anyway). She was too thin even by ballerina standards. She bacame depressed and despondent, believing herself to be hideous if her 5'8" frame exceeded the weight of 110. I was looking for some sort of website so that she could see that anorectic looks are indeed hideous, and loved this site because it exalted the true, feminine female form. I'll also brag that I am a freelance fitness trainer and have to constantly convince women that their curvy bodies are beautiful, normal and feminine. I deal with these issues in my work life, so I've used this website as a reference on many occasions since discovering it.

Once again, incohesive, misspellings, punctuation errors.....but I already wrote my Masters Thesis :)

american girl, Your writing is fine. The occasional error is to be expected, especially when you are tired and writing late. As you mentioned, the writing does tend to be more informal on boards such as this one. The rules vary from My posts have multiple errors in them. The point is, I can understand your posts very easily. I have trouble understanding the posts by anonymous, and I objected to Emily's assertion that you are the same person or that anonymous might be your alter ego. (I just want to be clear that I'm not trying to attack you here.)

Wow, I left off in the middle of a thought in the middle of that post and never came back to it... Yikes!

The fragment that started "The rules vary from," then suddenly skipped to the sentence beginning with "My posts," should have read: "The rules vary from board to board.

Okay, time for me to walk off with my tail between my legs after all of those errors. Eeeek!

link | Submitted by Meredith on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 00:36.

"Anonymous- Your posts have many more errors than that. I find it funny that you keep correcting them and making the same mistakes. (If English is not your native lanuage, I apologize in advance.) If it is, please check your grammar, punctuation, and spelling. Also please use the correct form for the contraction of "you are" which is "you're." Any good points you make are lost because your posts are hardly readable with all the errors. (I do think you have a number of good points, and I want to be sure the meaning is clear!)"

I am well aware my posts have many more errors than that and it is my fault for this and I am not surprised you have picked up on it. You are right I should not point out the errors in my posts unless I am going to correct them all. Though I was born and educated in England english is not my mother tounge i.e I am not a caucasion by blood white european) so english is in effect my second language. I am not and do not consider myself a master/expert in the English language and neither is my written english great and so for me therefore it is natural that I will make mistakes in my english some consciously some unconsciously. Im not sure if you will have gathered it but the posts were written in a hurry though I am not using that as an excuse to condone the errors but that is part of the explanation for some of the errors. I was well aware/conscious during writing and posting the comment that there were errors in the posts and it is a fault of mine for not going back and correcting them. I did go back and correct one or two errors the ones I immediately saw but made the desicion not to correct them all because my main concern was that readers understood the points I was making and got the jist of my argument as excellent grammer and english is not a guarentee of understanding.

link | Submitted by Meredith on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:00.

"I have trouble understanding the posts by anonymous"

Unfortunately in your case Meridith that doesnt seem to have been the case and I apologise for that.

"Just for the record, Emily (the Nordic one, not the latest one) suggested that you may be an alter ego of american girl. I'm not buying that because your writing style is much different"

I am aware what Emily was suggesting and I am not "american girl". I have already answered her questions.

"On an unrelated point, while it is difficult for people of mixed race to find bone marrow donors, it is false to say that this is a fatal immune system "flaw." (Sorry, I couldn't let that one go. That's the main reason I'm posting tonight though I said I'd stop... couldn't resist a good train wreck, I suppose...) The issue with matching donors is merely a difference in types. It is not a flaw. The immune system functions just fine. It is only a problem in the case of needing a transplant which a very small number of people require. There need to be more donors to help solve this problem. The fact that their body has another flaw/disease that causes them to require the transplant in the first place, is the true problem. There isn't a correlation between mixed race and diseases that require bone marrow transplants as far as I am aware"

Well if her (Emilys) behaviour on here is anything to go by it appears she will try any trick. Shes not in my observation and from what Ive gathered of her behaviour an honest woman.

P.S forgive any spelling/gramatical errors in this or any future posts.

It's okay, anonymous. I just had trouble understanding your posts in general, but I totally understood the last post. Yay! I certainly didn't go back and correct every mistake in my posts. Like I said, I think you have some really good points. I wanted to be sure that those got through.

In regards to Emily, you are so right.

american girl,

I was only trying to show you your double standards. You seem to apply different standards to yourself and different to others. And you then are trying to conveniently get away with it. Usually by changing the topic.

You were the first on this forum to accuse others of insufficient command of English and swearing. I showed you before that there was plenty of bad grammar in your very own posts. You also include expletives in your posts very liberally. Besides, as an American you should aspire to hold yourself to higher standards of command of your native language than most of the other authors here for whom English is not their native language. Have you thought about it?

You bragged about your degrees and superb education in the health related areas. You were arrogant and went even as far as saying to Emily "Are we really on equal ground here?". Then Emily exposed your embarrasing lack of basic medical understanding of differences between organ transplants and bone marrow transplants. How does this relate to your superb education and the degrees from a "VERY good, and large East coast university"? I am sorry, but your mistake was so basic that I cannot imagine a well trained medical professional who would not be aware of it even when suddenly awaken at 3am at night.

You see, you bragged and boasted about a lot of things. You also liberally accused and belittled others as if to boost your self-esteem. But then, as in life, it all came back to you. The good news, however, is that it is never too late to change.

after reading this post I have come to the conclusino that emigree and the "emily" are the same person. and no, i havenot reached my conclusion due to the fact that emigree sounds like emily in retard language, no offense to anyone that is mentally ill im just making a bad and offensive joke. but, i have come to this conclusion because of the similar writing style. particularly in the last post by emigree, where he/she/ mentions that one has the ability to change. anyways, all of you with your grammar problems have something stuck up your arses. honestly, who the hell cares. english grammar rules change every year. the committe is always adding a rule or taking one out. who cares? just make sure your post is readable, if you can't read my post than your iq is not very high. it is usually not very hard to discern posts that have at least minimal and basic grammar rules applied. see, all i use is periods and my commas are misused, yet i bet you can still read my post if you have an iq of 65 and above. did yuo konw taht if teh frsit adn lsat lteter in a wrod aer in teh rhgit palce yuo can fgurie it out? I bet you didn't know! so if anyone can figure that out, then certainly you can figure my post out. who cares how educated anyone is, it is your logic and your points that count, not your background. anyone can say they have a phd in anything, but if they have no valid points their ideas will not be taken seriously, at least not by me, and anyone else that has any reasoning skills.

now american girl, i do admire you if what you say is true. that you put yourself through school and all that.

emigree, i mean emily is very articulate and intelligent and all that jazz and jibber jabber but her points are ridiculous and have no validity. if she had a phd, it would have no relevence because her thoughts are just a big SIN. i mean i'm an atheist, but hell, after reading her posts i do believe in sin. i believe the biggest sin is letting your ego take over you...

as for erik, well mate you make some great points, and some weaker points, yet still, they intrigue me. the other thing that intrigues me is why you are so passionate about this topic?

i do have the suspicion that emigree can possibly erik as well or his identical brother seperated at birth only to find this site and realize his logic is extremely similar... to mix bad science with good and to defend the one called emily

Meredith, none of what was said to Emigree was directed toward you. Emigree/Emily are now grabbing at straws and trying to do anything and everything to descredit those on this site who do not share her/their views. My hostility was aimed at her for picking apart my posts as if it were English Comp 101. If it is not too late to change, than I hope she/they do, and soon. Most of my posts have been full of grammatical errors since coming here. The "others" that I've criticized in the past were Emily, so of course she will pick apart my posts, and try to play semantics games here, claiming arrogance on my part. And as far as the organ/tissue/marrow mistake, I was speaking in generalizations. Of course I know the difference between the two, who doesn't? So far, she/they have still not managed to discredit me, or anyone else who's disagreed with her/their agenda. It's sad and useless to even try. If the basis of one's arguments is to point out other's mistakes, without having any valid points of your own to present, than you really have no argument at all. What has "Emigree" contributed to this conversation, aside from bashing me? What original points has she made, other than wondering why Greta Garbo was never pictured as an example of Nordic Beauty? I've looked several times, and I've not seen her make any valid points of her own, other than "Emily you rock girl" (notice no comma after Emily in that sentence, haha).

And as far as Nordic extinction, I called up a college friend who was born and raised in Sweden. She said for Emily not to worry. The Northern Europeans are a strong race of people. The ancients should have died out long ago, what with the inter-fighting, famines, as well as the rugged and barren terrain that it was then, making it difficult for farming, and animal survival. If they were weak and fragile people, they'd be gone already. I think that her hysteria isn't so much about saving her people, as it is about the fact that she is a supremicist. If she were only a preservationist, she could've made her points, without adding that Asian women only appealed to men with pedophilia, and blacks look like "primates". It was not necessary to hurl insults like that unless she does feel "superior". If she does, her hopes of expressing that superiority without offending others is futile. Comments like those do and will offend others. She was looking for a fight, and she got one, from the majority of people who post here, it would seem. Even from her fellow white "brethren". One can still be white, Nordic, and proud of their race and ethnicity, without putting other races down. Any white person who disagrees with her she accuses of being non-white, or disloyal race-mixers, which I am not. Most whites I know are not supremicists. They are proud, and probably would not choose for themselves to race-mix, but do not become incensed by those who don't share their veiws.

I don't believe that my fair skin, light blue-green eyes, and European features are dying out. And just to be sure, I did have some blond, blue eyed children to contribute to Emily's perfect world. Get to breedin', Emily.

Mousecat: thank you for proving my point. And thank you for saying what you did specifically to me. I think in her attempt to discredit me and accuse me of arrogance, she only discredited herself, and proved herself more arrogant.

I apologize to anyone that I offended by the "coarseness" of my language. We "ugly Americans" have a tendency to swear maybe a little more than most I suppose. I do not, nor would not use that type of language around mixed company, at work, in any professional setting, and especially around my children. I consider this type of forum to be relatively informal, so we can expect, to some degree, some swearing every now and again. In regards to the words I used explicitly to Emily/Emigree the other evening: while I'm sure other words, phrases, etc. made have sounded more appropriate, at that moment, only those would do. I wanted to be deliberate in the extremity of my language, and to express my total and absolute disagreement and disapproval. I believe I succeeded.

I was the first on this site to point out swearing and poor grammar? Hardly. Just checked, in case I'd somehow had a complete loss of short-term memory. Once again, grasping at straws to try to discredit me. As a matter of fact, most of my posts are written rather informally, and some do contain swearing. Once again...(sigh)...your point is...? Just leave it alone, Emigree/Emily.

american girl,
I am starting to believe that you're kind of a "insane nurse". You seem to be utterly unable to grasp the point.

SO I AM REPEATING: You yourself started the bad grammar wars. Yes, you were the first to accuse others of swearing, poor punctuation, etc. But when you were shown that you make way more mistakes than others in your postings you said: Oh, well, I just had a bad day and my back aches. Ok, fine, so why are you, stupid nurse, still keep accusing others of bad grammar? Even in your newest post you wrote about a missing comma in one of my sentences. How relevant is it? But, of course, you fail to see the point and keep fuming and jumping incoherently from topic to topic in every post.

What really did you have to say about me? The only thing really repeating in every single post so far was that I've made a couple of language errors (and so did you btw) all of this liberally spiced with expletives and badmouthing.

I am not American, so please get off my back and learn your own language better first! I speak three foreign languages in addition to my native one. How many languages do you speak, superduper-educated American nurse?

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" — G.W. Bush, Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

american girl wrote:
"Emigree/Emily are now grabbing at straws and trying to do anything and everything to descredit those on this site who do not share her/their views."

american girl,
I can only speak for myself, but let me be clear: DO NOT TRY TO HIDE BEHIND OTHER PEOPLE'S BACKS AND DRAG THEM DOWN TO YOUR LEVEL.

I have absolutely no problem with anyone else on this site but only you. I have absolutely no problem reading other people's views, even if I happen to disagree with them. What I found disgusting was only your behaviour on this forum. I hope this clarifies the subject.

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling." — G.W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

Is that all you've got? Ha, you're a FUCKING JOKE. Do you want/need more swearing to prove yourself, Emily?

The correct way of stating: you're an "insane nurse", not "a". Now fuck off, insane Swedish cunt.

It was said by "Visitor" (Emily), that the only reason she has been going on, ad nauseum, about grammar, etc., on my part was because I was the first to criticize others' grammar. That is not true. In fact, I've been re-reading my previous commments and have found no such thing even resembling criticism, on my part, of anyone's commmand of English. She has cited that I'm arrogant, called me insane, and compared me to Dubya (twice, which is pretty funny), based on the reason stated above: because I was the first to be critical. However, no where here has such a thing taken place, as if it actually had, I'm sure she would've cited it by now. Yet, she hasn't.

My sincerest apologies, Visitor, for using an incorrect pronoun preceding the predicate case that I'd written. There you go. I've admitted a grammatical mistake. However, this does not make me insane, or arrogant for that matter.

I have enough academic, personal and professional experience to know that you have very little of any of these things at all. I've witnessed people being born, and I've watched people die. I have seen people in varying states of health and disease. I know who I am, and what I've done with my life. I'm well aware of the achievements I've earned, and know enough about life, and people in general, to know that it is you who is insane, if you still believe that pointing out grammatical errors, and lying about the nature of my past posts is going to discredit me.

My sincerest apologies to the site administrator, for taking part in this idiocy. It is not my wish to denegrate this site with any more silly, childish arguments about what pretty much amounts to be pointless lunacy. It is more than fair to say any further interaction on my part with Emily/Emigree/Visitor is no longer feasible, as she is unreasonable, and embarassingly immature.

Visitor, if it is your wish to continue this dialogue, than it will have to be with the numerous alter egos you've invented, as I am no longer biting the bait. This has been fun for you, I'm sure, as childish debates like these usually do entertain the more simple- minded, you see.

"Where wings take dream!" -Dubya

It is my sincerest wish, Visitor, that your life takes a dramatic turn for the better.

Mixing race tends to increase facial attractiveness because increases the level of heterozygosity in the gemone.

Hmmm...blue eyes vs. brown? Mixed raced individuals have a fatal immune system flaw? Erik is the antichrist and Emily is his vile minion? I think this has gone waaaay off topic! Anyway, Erik said somewhere that for every one comment Emily posts there will be ten that oppose her, and that appears to be the case. There is absolutely nothing wrong with expressing pride for one's own race, ethnicity and nationality. It seems as though non-whites are not only allowed, but encouraged to be vocal in their "pride", but should a white girl do the same, then she is racist? This hardly seems fair. I have only begun to read through the message boards here, but have read the bulk of the articles. Funny how Erik exalts European (feminine) beauty, and is harrassed endlessly, but there are countless other sites on the net that exalt "ethnic" beauty, and they are praised. I, for one, am tired of the double standard. I admit that on a few occasions Emily did get a little heated, and may have allowed her frustration to get the best of her, but I can't say that I'd have done any differently. I'm not in any way insecure in my looks. It is a well known fact that there are countless numbers of beautiful women in Scandinavia, as well as in the other Northern and North Western parts of Europe, and above average beauty is the norm. It is an ideal that is emulated in all parts of the world. It is sad to consider, also, that the traits of Northern European beauty that I may pass along may one day be so recessive, that the beautiful coloring and features will cease to exist. I've heard a lot of people say blahblahblah, this won't happen, but that is not true. It is happening right now.

Emily doesn't need to post pics of Swedish models to show what Swedes look like, because that is what ordinary Swedes look like. When I have more time, I will post pics of all kinds of Northern European "normal" women(not models) to further prove the case.

Race mixing aside, as I don't believe my opinion on the issue will change other peoples minds, I am proud of my ethnicity, looks and features, and hope to not see them lost over time.

What people fail to realize is that native Europeans have every right to want to see their customs and way of life preserved, and I will stand by this statement, un-PC or not.

"It was said by "Visitor" (Emily), that the only reason she has been going on, ad nauseum, about grammar, etc., "

Don't falsely attribute this to me. I am not the person with whom you had the conversation about grammar. I think the topic is uninteresting and irrelevant, actually, but as I understand it it was you who brought it up first.

Irish Girls Pictures, Images and Photos Pictures, Images and Photos"/>p://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s181/helimax/3091b4c8.jpg" border="0" alt="irish girls Pictures, Images and Photos"/>

My Dutch girls.. Pictures, Images and Photos
Dutch girls @ The Happy Pig Pictures, Images and Photos

src="http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/gunsig/germanbeergirls.jpg" border="0" alt="german girls Pictures, Images and Photos"/>

duc Pictures, Images and Photos

Me and the Danish Girls Pictures, Images and Photos

The Danish Girls at ARCAS Pictures, Images and Photos

english girls Pictures, Images and Photos
THE GIRLS Pictures, Images and Photos

My apologies for the way the pictures just formatted, the top 2 (that you have to scroll sideways to see both) are Irish girs, the next two are Dutch girls, the two below those are German girls, followed by 2 pics of Danish girls, and the bottom two are of English girls. Emily has taken care of the Swedes!!

Once again, I'd like to reiterate my abslolute PRIDE in my Northern and Northwestern European heritage. These woman are not models, just girls out at clubs in various European cities. None of these photos were "cherry picked", it took me all of about 5 minutes to find these, and there are countless more that do a decent job of depicting their natural beauty.

Although leaving her modeling career behind in the '50's to live a religious life, one cannot argue the beauty and femininity of Bettie Page.....

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more Irish and German girls....

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German...

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And for the guy who said Norther Europeans had "flat backsides", a Swede

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A testament to the claim that pin-up art will always be superior to the so-called "fashion" icons we are bombarded with every moment.....Jeffefer Janesko

yes Pictures, Images and Photos

Kiss my question mark Pictures, Images and Photos

What femininity is.....

Er...that was JeNNifer Janesko, sorry for the inferior typing...

I wasn't exactly sure where to bring up this topic, but I had the misfortune of watching a new reality show on Fox, called "More to Love", a show that celebrates the beauty of "Real Women", i.e. obese women. I realize that this will sound insensitive, but I don't really care. Obesity is NOT a "life-style choice". It is a serious, and often fatal health condition. Overweight people in the US would now like to recieve disability benefits, and some have threatened to sue certain sports venues because the seats could not accomodate them, stating that it was discrimination.

For most overweight people, it is a choice, a choice to eat unhealthily, and engage in a sedentary, lazy lifestyle. I'm sorry, I've had friends and family members, for various reasons, start gaining weight, but then, made a concious choice to lose it, through hard work, determination and support.

Americans have become so selfish and self-indulgent, that they'd rather lower their standards, than set the right example. It's no wonder the rest of the world sees us as a joke.

More free money for lazy people? Isn't there enough of that going on here as it is?

Telling women that it's OK to be overweight is the same as telling them to be anorexic, in theory. I'm a "Real Woman", I have curves, I'm not underweight, I'm at an ideal weight, so that should be a good thing, right? Apparently not.

This is an extremely dangerous attitude, as well as irresponsible. Not to mention the Fox network exploiting women, whom you could see had some serious self-esteem issues.

Just had to get that off my chest...

Barberella, what was the point of posting all those photos of northern european women? The first set, most of them were homely, some of them outright repulsive, while the second set was just marginally better.

I'm also really skeptical of the whole topic of people of mixed race having more problems finding bone marrow donations. I see this almost exclusively discussed amongst people of recent mixed race parentage, yet never see this issue arise amongst other heavily mixed populations- IE, african americans, hispanics, indians, etc. Hell, I even saw this issue arise among someone who was a vietnamese-korean mix- are those 2 groups that far apart?

Emily never seems to quit. There have been innumerable comments in her other shit storms regarding how inane her beauty standards are, and how nordic fetishists endlessly overlook how whites don't have their own ethnic cranio-facial extremities- overtly long, narrow faces, IE the horse face look is certainly common among europeans, and overtly concave noses are certainly an extreme nasal trait of europeans.

As someone else mentioned, japanese and other east asians who first encountered whites found them repulsive, even their glorious "light eyes"- and east asians certainly have a strong appreciation for feminine beauty. The only thing they admired was their light skin- everything else was repugnant. I've never heard of inuits' opinions of whites, though.

Here's an example of japanese opinions on the looks of white women: http://books.google.com/books?id=E_xkU5a5Ts0C&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=The+women%E2%80%99s+skin+was+white+and+they+were+charming+their+gala+dresses+decorated+with+gold+and+silver+but+their+hair+was+red+and+their+eyes+looked+like+dog+eyes,+which+was+quite+disheartening.++Occasionally+I+saw+women+with+black+hair+and+black+eyes.++They+must+have+been+of+some+Asian+race.++Naturally+they+looked+more+attractive+and+beautiful.&source=bl&ots=1NSeMjJZBG&sig=3oT3fL_svv4Dh5JkSIwg_AoCoRo&hl=en&ei=B7l5St2eEoeEMYGOnKMO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

They like the white skin and black hair, but hate the red hair and light eyes. They compare them to dog eyes.

There's also no mention earlier in this book of less pronounced eyelids in some of these descriptions of japanese ideals of beauty- occasionaly, you'll see some ideals that shift abit away from japanese ethnic traits, like mentioning small faces or praising the high noses of a couple of women on Perry's ship- but these seem quite minor, and preferences on facial size seem extremely variable. They also mention eyelids, and lo and behold, they don't have any, ANY preference mentioned for less pronounced eyelids- just for certain shapes. Contrary to how you've compared the idea of epicanthic folds evoking the looks of kids with downs syndrome.

And no, white genes certainly aren't universally recessive. As someone else noted, the traits of aborigines are overtly recessive in white-aborigine pairings. I'm not sure of the genetic dynamic that underlies this, though. Plus, blacks seem to be dominant over east asians, who are dominant over whites, so there's alot to consider.

Plus, whites certainly don't have a monopoly on universal markers of attractiveness, like facial symmetry- that's not even remotely a racial trait.

Emily also loves to overlook the excessive body hair of whites compared to blacks and asians, and the how poorly whites age compared to, well, virtually all other groups. Body hair prominence is largely related to testosterone, though, and the speed of aging is realted to a whole host of genetic factors unrelated to skin color- notice how east asians aren't much lighter, and are, in some ways, just as light as whites, yet age just as well black africans. Also in spite of their much lower testosterone levels.

See? These are largely transient racial traits, but Emily loves to ignore them and go on about the body structure of non-whites- IE, calling east asians undeveloped, fetal dwarves.

Please, for the love of god Emily, shut the fuck up. You have been proven so hideously wrong time and time again on the issue of ethnic facial traits, and most recently your pathetic attempt to say light eyes are ALWAYS interpreted as more feminine. (gray eyes are always more feminine? Like the vibrance of storm clouds? Uh... yeah. And I can go around and say gray eyes evoke the looks of, well, lifelessness, dust, etc. Gray is often thought of as bland color, you know.)

"japanese and other east asians who first encountered whites found them repulsive, even their glorious "light eyes"- and east asians certainly have a strong appreciation for feminine beauty. The only thing they admired was their light skin- everything else was repugnant."

You don't actually believe that yourself, do you? I love it when non-whites come here and troll, pretending they don't envy white beauty. I could post countless before/after pictures of Asians who underwent plastic surgery - men and women - and then we would see what and who they try to resemble, wouldn't we..?

Take these photos, for example;

And these ones..

Yes, it's so apparent now that they really wanted to look more Asian, isn't it? (irony) Funny how they ended up looking Euroasian, then. A pure coincidence, I imagine.

Yes, Violet Corpse, homely, marginally attractive, but compared to Asians, the most stunning people in the planet. These, you realize are pics of regular N. and Northwestern Europeans, not the models, that all Asians have to post, in order to convince anyone that there's a single attractive one out of the entire population, lets see, more homely Irish girls....

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Disgusting German women...

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And the most hideous of them all, the Swedes....

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Bitter envy was the motivation for your rambling post, every Asian guy has always said how much they love the looks of whites because fo the beautiful array of colors, not the same hair, skin, and eyes for miles....

Here's the reality.....

Dem Asian Women Pictures, Images and Photos

asian FOB women Pictures, Images and Photos

The one's that look good are either cartoons of themselves, or trying VERY hard to look European...

Asian Beauty Pictures, Images and Photos

Manny Sluggz Loves Asian Women Pictures, Images and Photos

Manny Sluggz Loves Asian Women Pictures, Images and Photos

There's your reality.

And as far as body hair goes, white women don't have a proponderance of excessive hisutism, but, adults are supposed to have some body hair, only those with arrested development fail to develop normal body hair growth.

Grey eyes look like dust, you say? And dark brown/black eyes look the eyes of evil comic book characters and monsters in horror movies. Just better to leave this one alone...

grey eyes....

Grey Eyes Pictures, Images and Photos

grey eyes Pictures, Images and Photos

grey eye Pictures, Images and Photos

grey Pictures, Images and Photos

and "dog eyes", right, blue and green.....

blue eyes Pictures, Images and Photos

Sayla eyes by blondleyooper Pictures, Images and Photos

beautiful green eyes...

green eyes Pictures, Images and Photos

green eyes Pictures, Images and Photos

Envy is a fickle bitch, now isn't she/

dog eyes...

pink tongu, brown doe eyes and clean Pictures, Images and Photos

hideous Europeans and their eyes....

Intensifeye part three.

Irish_girl

Intensifeye part four.

"You don't actually believe that yourself, do you? I love it when non-whites come here and troll, pretending they don't envy white beauty. I could post countless before/after pictures of Asians who underwent plastic surgery - men and women - and then we would see what and who they try to resemble, wouldn't we..?"

Oh my god you're pathetic. These are NOT MY VIEWS- these are the OPINIONS of east asians prior to substantial western contact. Do you doubt that huge compendium of quotes and anthropological data? And once again, ONCE AGAIN, you cretins act as if whites don't have their own ethnic cranio-facial extremities- which they CERTAINLY do. I'm white, by the way. Just because I'm not a desperate, misanthropic cretin like you doesn't mean I'm non-white.

And hey, one of those japanese liked the women on commodore perry's ship- what now?

"Take these photos, for example;"

These are obviously "after" photos- it doesn't show a thing as to how they looked prior to such surgery. By the way, as other comments have pointed out several times to you, male beauty is PROFOUNDLY more variable than female beauty. Do not tell me you're going to go on about the beauty of white males now.

"And these ones.."

I've seen you post these pictures before. Just WHAT did she get done? Most of them are blurry and of very different angles. The only differences I see is that her nose is slightly narrower, her chin is more prominent (hardly a european trait), and her teeth look better. She still looks very asian.

"Yes, Violet Corpse, homely, marginally attractive,"

I never called white women this.

"but compared to Asians, the most stunning people in the planet."

HAHAHAHHA! Yes Barberella, all white women are just super models! So what makes white men so gorgeous? Do they have a monopoly on facial symmetry compared to every single other population? (they don't) Are their facial shapes of a perfect medium unlike anyone else? (they don't) Is it their light hair and light eyes, something most whites don't exhibit? (it's not) Is their light skin that wonderful? (no, but I'll admit it's the only thing I find somewhat devisive on this topic) Is their facial femininity so soft and gracile? (not in the least)

"These, you realize are pics of regular N. and Northwestern Europeans, not the models, that all Asians have to post, in order to convince anyone that there's a single attractive one out of the entire population, lets see, more homely Irish girls...."

A bunch of them at night clubs and bars, which is where... most of these women have been posted. Did you know alot of more attractive women on average on going to frequent those clubs, especially when it comes to group photos? By the way, I don't find any of those women that particularly attractive. They're generally pretty good looking, but nothing what I'd approach as calling the most "stunning people on the planet". By the way, the girls in the second pic are all quite unattractive.

"Bitter envy was the motivation for your rambling post,"

You assume too much, you arrogant prick. Objectivity and a willingless to stamp out this kind of bile is behind it. You're basically a clone of Emily- where'd you come from? Stormfront?- and it's been shown time and time again, in spite of voluminous levels of examples shown against her, she still comes back time and time again. It's pretty obvious what her feelings are- she reviles the idea of white, nordic women not being at the center, the paragon, the ideal of human female beauty. She has some sort of ridiculous vendetta against asians, calling and comparing them undeveloped, child like dwarves, fetuses, saying they look like downs syndrome sufferers etc. She says virtually all asians hate their own looks and want to destroy the white race, because all they care about is improving their own looks, because they're just lustful, malicious beings.

How does that not sound like she can't stand non-whites?

"every Asian guy has always said how much they love the looks of whites because fo the beautiful array of colors, not the same hair, skin, and eyes for miles...."

Yeah, EVERY ASIAN GUY. Do you 2 morons EVER realize how insane you sound with this kind of hyperbole? By the way, exactly WHAT makes a population with more hair and eye color diversity more objectively beautiful? All of those colors are relative, unless you're going to take a nordicist stance on all this. And skin color? Um. Whites, as a whole, are extremely homogenous in skin color. People closer to the extremities of skin color distribution among humans, whether it be the white skin seen most commonly among europeans or the deep black skin seen commonly among sudanese and senegambian blacks, are more likely to be less diverse in skin coloration. People farther away from the extremities are more diverse. East asians are CERTAINLY more diverse in skin color than whites. Though, are you of the opinion that nordic white skin is innately the most desired? If not, that'd be great to hear.

"The one's that look good are either cartoons of themselves, or trying VERY hard to look European..."

.....The first woman had pink streaks of dyed hair. The second one only had blonde dyed hair, which is a very uncommon dyed color among asians.

"And as far as body hair goes, white women don't have a proponderance of excessive hisutism, but, adults are supposed to have some body hair, only those with arrested development fail to develop normal body hair growth."

...Just WHAT are you talking about? It's a fact that, on average, whites, and by implication, white women, are considerably more hairy than asians. A good deal of this is due to testosterone differences, though, meaning, in such a case, it's a relatively transient racial trait. Just like facial masculinity (profoundly transient), body shape, etc. Something Emily endlessly acts as if it isn't.

"Grey eyes look like dust, you say? And dark brown/black eyes look the eyes of evil comic book characters and monsters in horror movies. Just better to leave this one alone..."

No, I was only drawing up negative things grey eyes could be compared to, considering how Emily was going on about how wonderful grey eyes are, when one can easily think of more negative comparisons for that than blue or green eyes.

"and "dog eyes", right, blue and green....."

I didn't call them dog eyes. That was the japanese delegate who did. What are you trying to prove here?

"Envy is a fickle bitch, now isn't she/"

I guess whites with brown eyes, who constitute the majority of whites, should fall in line with all those hideous non-whites. Unless you have some evidence for light eyes being objectively more attractive?

By the way, I think you're much more deserving of the label "fickle bitch" when you seem endlessly set on "proving" the innate beauty of white women. Fickle bitch.

"These are obviously "after" photos- it doesn't show a thing as to how they looked prior to such surgery."

Are you an idiot? They are of two people - a man and a woman - before and after plastic surgery to get rid of their mongoloid traits.

As you clearly are an idiot I apparently have to explain that the upper three pictures of the man are him prior to the operations, and the lower three photos show him after the completion of the operations.

The girl you see in the very upper left photo is the genuine her, prior to surgery. All the other photos are of the same girl during different stages of her "transformation", ending up in the result you see in the bottom photo on the far right.

"Oh my god you're pathetic. These are NOT MY VIEWS- these are the OPINIONS of east asians prior to substantial western contact."

Yes, indeed, you are an idiot. I know it is supposed to be their opinion. I was asking you if it is also yours, since I find it hard to believe anyone could actually believe in that obvious lie.

Dark lustrous eyes and dark lustrous black hair is a correlate of beauty.

link | Submitted by Violetcorpus on Fri, 08/07/2009 - 11:39.

''I guess whites with brown eyes, who constitute the majority of whites, should fall in line with all those hideous non-whites. Unless you have some evidence for light eyes being objectively more attractive?''

Though I do not support the view it would be interesting and to see if there is evidence that supports light eyes being ''objectively'' more attractive.

link | Submitted by hmhm on Wed, 05/20/2009 - 09:06.

''dude, i don't know what you're talking about. i know a lot of mixed race people who look good. so what if they get most of their good looks from their white genes? they still are better looking than mos whites and your beloved nordic race. and both the whites and the coloreds agree about that. except maybe you''

In some instances racial mixture can not only increase attractiveness but can also make one more sexually appealing.

Self-esteem issues related to the feminine beauty site 08/07/2009 - 11:39

by Violetcorpus link

" By the way, exactly WHAT makes a population with more hair and eye color diversity more objectively beautiful?"

Good question. Diversity is not an indicator nor evidence of a race being more "objectively" beautifull if anything it appears to indicate the opposite though perhaps for europeans as diversity signifies a greater variety of looks for them it indicates them being "objectively" more beautiful on a group level hence they have a higher opinion of the looks of there ethnic group but not on an individual level because they have the pick of different looks. This again is not evidence that more diverse looks of a race means they are "objectively" more beautifull it merely indicates that they are "objectively" more diverse. As one gets closer to beauty one narrows the gap down with respect to alot of features. Not every hair and eye colour is a correlate of beauty but even within this area one can narrow it down to a single hair and eye colour this is not to say people who are not of that hair and eyes colour cannot be more attractive that thoose who are of such a hair and eyes colour because in final judgement of beauty one takes the "overall" appearance of an indiviual into consideration when judging beauty and so give and take some features that may not be exclusively related directly to beauty these features may on an overall level still increase the "overall" attractiveness of an individual. Therfore in relation to hair and eyes colour a certain hair and eye colour maybe a correlate of beauty the question is which hair/eyes colour is "objectively" beautifull? I highly doubt that except perhaps for europeans it is light coloured eyes.

"Therfore in relation to hair and eyes colour a certain hair and eye colour maybe a correlate of beauty the question is which hair/eyes colour is "objectively" beautifull? I highly doubt that except perhaps for europeans it is light coloured eyes."

Lighter hair and eyes suggests femininity, vulnerability and a need for protection, purity and youth ( children have lighter pigmentation, lighter hair etc).

Blonde/blondish hair and light eyes have always inspired men to be protective and to be emotional rather than just sexual. Traditionally the romantic heroine is portrayed as blonde, fair, and with blue eyes.

Blackish/dark brown eyes and hair are a very uniform and monotonous colour that is found all over the world with little variation. Women with those colours have always envied the blonde and light-eyed Nordic woman and tried to emulate her through bleaching, plastic surgery and contact lenses - seeing in her a romantic, soft and feminine ideal that men dream of.

The very dark colours are generally more suited to men since they are more aggressive, masculine and strong. There is nothing feminine about blackish eyes and black hair. If a woman is feminine and dark she will be so in spite of her dark colours - not because of them.

The blackish/darkbrown colour in itself adds absolutely nothing in terms of sweetness, femininity and softness.

The Nordic woman with her gracile and harmonious facial features, blonde hair and sparkling lighter blue, green or grey eyes hold a special place in men's hearts.

Throughout history women with light colours, white skin, blonde hair and light eyes, have been the ideal as portrayed in art, so this is hardly something new.

Look at angels and mythological figures in art. Overwhelmingly they have been visualized blonde with Nordish colours, often uncharacteristicly for the region in which the painter himself worked (Italian painting, for example).

The rarity of these colours have also added to the mystique and the admiration.

link | Submitted by Emily on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 08:20.

''Lighter hair and eyes suggests femininity, vulnerability and a need for protection, purity and youth ( children have lighter pigmentation, lighter hair etc).

Blonde/blondish hair and light eyes have always inspired men to be protective and to be emotional rather than just sexual. Traditionally the romantic heroine is portrayed as blonde, fair, and with blue eyes.''

Its a simple question-which hair/eyes colour is ''objectively beautifull''? Nothing whatsoever of the above written constitutes evidence for fair hair/eyes being objectively beautifull.

''Blackish/dark brown eyes and hair are a very uniform and monotonous colour that is found all over the world with little variation. Women with those colours have always envied the blonde and light-eyed Nordic woman and tried to emulate her through bleaching, plastic surgery and contact lenses - seeing in her a romantic, soft and feminine ideal that men dream of.''

Since the majority of the world has dark hair and dark eyes and a small minority out that huge majority experiment with contact lenses/hair dying this again is not evidence that the MAJORITY of ''Women with those colours have always envied the blonde and light-eyed Nordic woman'' apart from that small MINORITY who experiment with contact lenses/dying there hair.

''If a woman is feminine and dark she will be so in spite of her dark colours - not because of them.''

Ofcourse she will be no one has argued otherwise because hair colour is not associated with femininity its associated with beauty. Different hair colour is not going to stop a woman being more feminine/masculine or make them anyone more feminine/masucline than they are but it may stop a woman or make a woman more beautifull than they are.Femininity and beauty are two seperate concepts its how they work with each other is the area where they are related .

''The blackish/darkbrown colour in itself adds absolutely nothing in terms of sweetness, femininity and softness.''

Ofcourse it doesnt how can you expect it to be when hair/eye colour is not related to femininity but it related to the beauty aspect of a woman.

''The Nordic woman with her gracile and harmonious facial features, blonde hair and sparkling lighter blue, green or grey eyes hold a special place in men's hearts.''

No ones interested in emotional language and use of emotions to justify arguments they are not conclusive of objective evidence but mere emotions. Ofcourse nordic women hold a special place in means hearts in there own NORDIC mens hearts exactly where they should. Nordic women are not the only women throughout history who have had ''blonde hair and sparkling lighter blue, green or grey eyes''. ''hold a special place in men's hearts''? My God you are a dreamer!

''Throughout history women with light colours, white skin, blonde hair and light eyes, have been the ideal as portrayed in art, so this is hardly something new.

Look at angels and mythological figures in art. Overwhelmingly they have been visualized blonde with Nordish colours, often uncharacteristicly for the region in which the painter himself worked (Italian painting, for example).''

This is not tantamount to ''objective'' evidence.

''The rarity of these colours have also added to the mystique and the admiration''

Rarety is not evidence for such eye/hair colours being "objectively" beautifull.

Dark lustrous black hair/eyes are warm but dangerous looking unlike light hair colours.

"hair/eye colour is not related to femininity "

Wrong. Hair colour and eye colour are very much related to femininity. Soft, light and sweet colours are more feminine on average than hard, blackish-brown ones, and therefore add to the femininity of a woman.

That is why dark-haired women all over the world constantly bleach their hair. They know the blondeness will add femininity, and men love that. It often turns out bad since they have too much masculinity in their face to pull it off, but that's another story.

Dark colours can add sexyness in a non-emotional way, and sometimes vulgarity. The hardness of black takes away softness, sweetness, vulnerability and femininity - things men need in order to feel romantic and protective.

Soft and light colours inspire emotions and make men fall in love, not in lust.

The "evidence" lies in the visuals. I don't need any evidence in order to state something men and women have been aware of throughout the ages. Asking for that only makes you seem ridiculous.

The Nordic fair woman has been idealized and adored throughout history, and has been the icon of beauty, and this because she is objectively AND subjectively regarded as more feminine and sweet.

Dark women come across as dynamic, sexy, sultry and also impure at times. They play on those things since that is what they often transmit. Blackish brown colour adds hardness, and therefore contradicts femininity.

"Ofcourse nordic women hold a special place in means hearts in there own NORDIC mens hearts exactly where they should."

Of course, but not only there but in many other men's hearts as well. Men are romantics, you see, but there is a certain physical ideal that will bring out that side in men more easily.

Painters know this, for example, and often use the natural blonde beauty in works where love and emotion is being suggested.

link | Submitted by Emily on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:27.

''Wrong. Hair colour and eye colour are very much related to femininity. Soft, light and sweet colours are more feminine on average than hard, blackish-brown ones, and therefore add to the femininity of a woman.''

Your argument NOT mine. Stick with it.

''Soft and light colours inspire emotions and make men fall in love, not in lust.''

This is proof for them being ''objectively beautifull'' the never ending so called ''emotions'' one is supposed to be feeling when one sees light eye/hair colour?

''The "evidence" lies in the visuals. I don't need any evidence in order to state something men and women have been aware of throughout the ages. Asking for that only makes you seem ridiculous.''

Asking for evidence makes one seem riduculous?. You feeling alright Joker?

''The Nordic fair woman has been idealized and adored throughout history, and has been the icon of beauty, and this because she is objectively AND subjectively regarded as more feminine and sweet.''

Where is the evidence again? The above statement is evidence of light hair/eye colour being ''objectively'' beautifull?

''Of course, but not only there but in many other men's hearts as well.''

You sound like a real life Jekyl and Hyde JOKER! and I do feel sorry for you.

"Are you an idiot? They are of two people - a man and a woman - before and after plastic surgery to get rid of their mongoloid traits."
They are only AFTER PHOTOS. That's why I said it doesn't tell us much compared to how they looked BEFORE.
"As you clearly are an idiot I apparently have to explain that the upper three pictures of the man are him prior to the operations, and the lower three photos show him after the completion of the operations."

Yeah, I guess I'm an idiot because I couldn't percieve it's the same person since they look so incredibly different afterwards. Once again, male beauty is MUCH more variable than female beauty. Putting up pictures of asian males is inane.

"Yes, indeed, you are an idiot. I know it is supposed to be their opinion. I was asking you if it is also yours, since I find it hard to believe anyone could actually believe in that obvious lie."

You didn't ask with me, you and your little clone Barbarella ran with it and spammed pictures of light eyed women.

And... you HONESTLY don't believe someone can hold such a view?

Emily. Listen to me. Amazingly, light eyes aren't a universally attractive trait. You might understand this if you would shut the hell up for once and drop your nordic fetish, FOR ONCE.

"Lighter hair and eyes suggests femininity, vulnerability and a need for protection, purity and youth ( children have lighter pigmentation, lighter hair etc)."

Hahaha, NO, neotenic traits are NOT across the board considered more attractive. THIS SITE ARGUES AGAINST THAT. Prominent epicanthic folds and flattened nasal bridges are also more neotenic traits, but you of course would NEVER consider those to be attractive. By the way, just how is lighter hair going to be considered innately more attractive, as a function of neoteny, when this is only visible amongst light-haired humans, a VERY infrequent trait?

"Blonde/blondish hair and light eyes have always inspired men to be protective and to be emotional rather than just sexual. Traditionally the romantic heroine is portrayed as blonde, fair, and with blue eyes."

Proof of this. Have non-white cultures depicted their romantic heroines with hair and eye colors unnatural to them?

"Blackish/dark brown eyes and hair are a very uniform and monotonous colour that is found all over the world with little variation. Women with those colours have always envied the blonde and light-eyed Nordic woman and tried to emulate her through bleaching, plastic surgery and contact lenses - seeing in her a romantic, soft and feminine ideal that men dream of."

No. They. HAVEN'T. Why is blonde hair dye a rarity in east asia? What about all the whites that don't have these traits? Did you know that, after red hair, blonde hair is the LEAST common among whites? I'm a white male. I've never noticed all the non-blonde and non-light eyed colors eyeing the ones with those traits with horrendous envy.

"The very dark colours are generally more suited to men since they are more aggressive, masculine and strong. There is nothing feminine about blackish eyes and black hair. If a woman is feminine and dark she will be so in spite of her dark colours - not because of them."

You can do nothing to support this outside of metaphoric associations or outright denying non-white peoples with little western contact not liking these colors. By the way, wouldn't men with these colors be more feminine?

"The blackish/darkbrown colour in itself adds absolutely nothing in terms of sweetness, femininity and softness."

Still waiting for some objective proof of this, my corrosive little nordic fetishist.
By the way: http://pages.globetrotter.net/peter_frost61z/European-hair-and-eye-color.htm

"This frequency dependence has been shown in humans. Thelen (1983) presented male participants with slides showing attractive brunettes and blondes and asked them to choose, for each series, the woman they would most like to marry. One series had equal numbers of brunettes and blondes, a second 1 brunette for every 5 blondes, and a third 1 brunette for every 11 blondes. Result: the rarer the brunettes were in a series, the likelier any one brunette would be chosen. This rare-color preference is also shown in a Gene Expression (2008) study that found an overrepresentation of blondes and dark brunettes on the front covers of Maxim magazine in relation to the white American population. Women with the more common light brown hair were underrepresented. This frequency-dependent preference may have produced the wide range of human hair and eye phenotypes we see today."

Man, what's wrong with these guys?!?!

"The Nordic woman with her gracile"

East asians have lower testosterone features, thus softer bones and thus more gracile facial features.

"and harmonious facial features,"

Not a single ethnic group holds a monopoly on facial symmetry. This is a profoundly variable physical trait.

"blonde hair and sparkling lighter blue, green or grey eyes hold a special place in men's hearts."

Only in the minds of demented little nordic fetishists like you, who love to block out or twist anything that goes against them.

"Throughout history women with light colours, white skin, blonde hair and light eyes, have been the ideal as portrayed in art, so this is hardly something new."

Hah, even in cultures where these were non-existent?

"Look at angels and mythological figures in art. Overwhelmingly they have been visualized blonde with Nordish colours, often uncharacteristicly for the region in which the painter himself worked (Italian painting, for example)."

Bullshit. Greeks and Romans almost never portrayed their mythological figures with light hair colors, for example. Please trash on non-nordic whites some more, please.

"The rarity of these colours have also added to the mystique and the admiration."

Which is pretty much the only reason its like that. By the way, in a previous discussion, someone pointed out how blonde hair can show less of a contrast on very white skin. While this is variable due to lighting conditions, under some, it can look just... bad. The same can hold true for darker women with dark hair, though. But it's dependent on lighting conditions.

"Wrong. Hair colour and eye colour are very much related to femininity. Soft, light and sweet colours are more feminine on average than hard, blackish-brown ones, and therefore add to the femininity of a woman."

Soft, light, and sweet on the basis of what? Metaphors?

"That is why dark-haired women all over the world constantly bleach their hair."

PROOF. OF. THIS. Again, blonde hair is a RARITY in east asia.

"Dark colours can add sexyness in a non-emotional way, and sometimes vulgarity. The hardness of black takes away softness, sweetness, vulnerability and femininity - things men need in order to feel romantic and protective."

Once again on the basis of your idiotic metaphors. Hey Emily- I prefer dark hair, and like really feminine looking women. Dark hair doesn't at all come off to me as a "masculine" color. What's wrong with me??!?!

"The "evidence" lies in the visuals. I don't need any evidence in order to state something men and women have been aware of throughout the ages. Asking for that only makes you seem ridiculous."

To hell with the evidence, let me just photos of dark haired wops with masculine facial features compared to light haired nordics with more feminine features, along with baseless coverings of human history. I do this because I have nothing else!

"The Nordic fair woman has been idealized and adored throughout history, and has been the icon of beauty, and this because she is objectively AND subjectively regarded as more feminine and sweet."

I, and many others, have posted profound levels of evidence against this, and you can do nothing but spew your own bile and post photos.

"Dark women come across as dynamic, sexy, sultry and also impure at times. They play on those things since that is what they often transmit. Blackish brown colour adds hardness, and therefore contradicts femininity."

I guess this must mean white men are really feminine.

"Of course, but not only there but in many other men's hearts as well. Men are romantics, you see, but there is a certain physical ideal that will bring out that side in men more easily.
Painters know this, for example, and often use the natural blonde beauty in works where love and emotion is being suggested."

Yeah, pretty much in Renaissance paintings.

You really amaze me, Emily. There has been so much opposition to you. Some of it vitriolic, but much of it well backed up. For other people amazed by this insane little cretin, just search her name on this site. She just won't stop, no matter how hilariously refuted she is.

I mean hey, Emily, I posted some of that evidence too! I posted opinions of japanese who've had minor contact with westerners, who thought light hair and eyes were unappealing, and you THINK ITS A LIE.

You are goddamned WARPED.

In these posts, I've never seen Emily proclaim nordic beauty as the ideal until now. I mean, she's given evidence to it, but she's never outright done it until now, albeit she has trashed on slavs before. She's pretty much argued for white women generally being more beautiful.

Considering how she bespeaks not only of nordic cranio facial features and body structure (a profoundly variable trait) being envied the world over, and painting non-whites, especially east asians, as lustful, destructive, nihilistic beings who only care for the beauty of nordic white women, I guess this must really apply to non-nordic whites too, since THEY really can't get enough of that blonde hair either!

Emily seems to hold profound contempt in her heart for about 95% of the world's populace.

""The Nordic fair woman has been idealized and adored throughout history, and has been the icon of beauty, and this because she is objectively AND subjectively regarded as more feminine and sweet."

I, and many others, have posted profound levels of evidence against this, and you can do nothing but spew your own bile and post photos."

No, you have not. Why do you lie?

As for spewing bile, anyone who reads your comment can see you are projecting on me your own sins.

In truth, this will always be more feminine and attractive..

than this....

This has nothing to do with "contempt" for people, it has everything to do with femininity and beauty, which this site is about. Try to understand the difference.

You just can't stand that white women of Nordic type are more feminine and beautiful, on average, and that most other women don't compare when you assess and compare femininity.

link | Submitted by Emily on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 19:53.
''In truth, this will always be more feminine and attractive..''

In truth femininity will always be feminine, femininity will be more feminine than non-femininity or masculinity thats reasonable I can agree with that.LOL. Attractivness is assessable.

First I would like to note that Emily's photos contrasting how blonde hair can be more feminine are innacurate. In her first set of photos she has dark haired women at premieres where there is camera flash and the lighting is generally harsh, while her photos of blonde women feature studio lighting and obvious airbrushing. Except for the photo of Naomi Watts, however the photo has obviously been altered since there are white smokey streaks all over the bottom near the bottom of her hair, face, and neck. I doubt Emily did this, but one must note it.

I have to say that to a certain extent I can agree that blonde hair is more feminine. First of all, generally light colors are considered more feminine. Lighter skin and lighter hair. I do think lighter eyes are up to debate though and I can explain that later. Children often do have lighter hair and as they grow it will darken. This is primarily true in Caucasian children however, and not other children. However, anyone could say that as we age our hair lightens as well.

Either way, I know for a fact that light hair will direct the eye away from the faults and imperfections in the face, while darker hair will direct the eye to any faults or imperfection in the face. That is why as most women get older, they try to look younger by lightening their hair.

However, does this mean that dark hair is masculine? I doubt it. I can see how darker colors can be viewed as more masculine and lighter colors more feminine. However, a woman that is feminine will look feminine whether she has light or dark hair. A masculine woman with light hair will look only slightly better, because the light hair will take away any concentration of her masculine features. However, a beautiful feminine woman with soft features will look just as feminine with dark hair. This is because she does not need blonde hair to soften anything up. She is soft and feminine in the first place.

Elizabeth Taylor for example:

elizabeth taylor Pictures, Images and Photos

Now does this mean that a feminine woman with blonde hair will appear more feminine than an equally feminine woman with dark hair? NO. This is simply because once someone is as feminine as they need to be, any additional femininity won't do much. Too much femininity isn't attractive anymore anyways. Besides, dark hair does add a sexy and mysterious edge. It would be nice to have soft feminine features with a touch of mystery and sexiness, and that is something that dark hair can accomplish.

Then we have a small dilemna. The masculine features are the really extreme features. There are extreme shades of blonde. Once you get to that extreme shade, I think anyone can agree the feminine aspect of soft blonde hair, diminishes. White blonde hair starts to look harsh. Of course with the right skin tone and rosy cheeks to balance it out, it won't. However, really white blonde hair can have a masculine edge as well. It's an extreme hair color. People who dye their hair platinum blonde are not trying to be more feminine, nor do they look more feminine because their hair is that color. People who dye their hair that color either want to look more interesting, or they want attention. It's a LOOK AT ME, flamboyant hair color.

So the closer you are to either side of the light dark spectrum, the more masculine that color will be. Anything in between is more feminine, although the closer you get to the lighter colors the more feminine. However, after a point the lighter color starts to go towards masculine. White hair and black hair is harsh. Period. These are extremes.That's my point.

Now I don't believe that light eyes colors are more feminine. This is because light eye colors appear more cat like. They are piercing and cold. These are not feminine qualities. On the other hand, I think light eye colors are extremely sexy. I think eyes are similar to hair color. The closer you are to either extreme, the more harsh and extreme the color. Eyes that are so dark they appear black are more masculine appearing. Eyes that are so light are more masculine appearing. Anything in between is well in between.

In the end though, I think color has little to do with femininity. Color can suggest either or, but in the end it is in the bone structure, body shape, fat placement, etc. Color is something that is great, but not very solid. A person's frame is more important. It doesn't matter if you have the perfect and most feminine shade of blonde hair, if a woman with black hair and black eyes with a better figure comes along, she has lost to the competition. That is unless someone puts more value on a certain feature, such as hair and eye color, over body shape and structure. This is usually a fetish though.

I'd like to address some of Emily's other statements regarding this subject:

Emily, you claim that even Italian painters depicted beautiful women as blonde. Yes. They also depicted the ideal man as having a small penis, but that doesn't mean it is ideal or what every woman desires.

Louvre Italian sculpture - Michaelangelo Pictures, Images and Photos

Describing blonde hair and light features as: romantic, pure and innocent, and dark hair as: vulgar and impure is not good way to make a point. Those are subjective terms. Although many times they can be described in subjective terms, for example I claimed dark hair and eyes are more mysterious, it is still not a good way to argue anything.

I also always disagree with your notion of what is romantic. Romance is strong. It is associated with blood red roses, blood red lips, dark hair, and dark eyes. This is because Romantic is a latin word! The latins invented the word and made the idea popular. Latins are dark. Latins are stereotyped as being more passionate. Passion is romantic. Are you making the connections? If you want to argue that anything is romantic you have to consider the origins of romanticism.

Now I don't believe that blondes cannot be romantic. FAR FROM IT! But I do have to say that the meaning of Romantic has a cultural tie to it. That is the culture of the Latins. You absolutley dismiss that culture when you claim that dark features are NEVER romantic.

You also claim that in literature romantic women are portrayed as light and blonde. This is not true. What about the greatest romance stories of all time? What about gone with the wind? Both characters have strong coloring, which is viewed as romantic. The women's name is Scarlet, a romantic and rich color associated with passion. Get it? Deep, rich, passionate, strong= romantic.

Gone with the wind Pictures, Images and Photos

Now in one of my all time favorite movies, the Notebook, which was equally as romantic, both characters are light featured:

the notebook Pictures, Images and Photos

So I am not saying that light features are not romantic. I am saying that the idea of what is romantic is tied to a rich culture, and that culture heavily emphasizes dark and rich features. Therefore, it is not accurate to say that dark and rich features cannot be romantic.

I would also like to add that although light hair can be viewed as more feminine, dark features can be viewed as healthy too because dark hair is usually thick and rarely unhealthy. Blonde hair is often limp and fine. So the color makes up for the texture, and its nice that its soft, but it never looks as full as dark hair. So, I believe it balances out.

Here are some more beautiful women with dark hair and dark eyes that are feminine. Their dark features enhance their beauty:

Amrita Rao:

amrita rao Pictures, Images and Photos

amrita rao Pictures, Images and Photos

Salma Hayek:

Salma Hayek Pictures, Images and Photos

Natalie Wood:

Natalie Wood Pictures, Images and Photos

Natalie Wood Pictures, Images and Photos

Audrey Hepburn:

Audrey Hepburn Pictures, Images and Photos

Ashley Judd:

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Rose McGowan:

Rose McGowan Pictures, Images and Photos

Mackenzie Rosman:

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Lacey Chabert:

lacey chabert Pictures, Images and Photos

Camilla Belle:

camilla belle Pictures, Images and Photos

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PLUS ALL THESE CHICKS!!!!:

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I got this photo off of one of Emily's post. This is the case where a bright blonde hair color is offset by the skin tone. See how her skin tone is pink? This makes her look more feminine overall. See how her eyes are blue, but not too light? She has a very feminine eye color. Her eyes are not black brown or grey. They are blue, which are probably more feminine than just plain brown eyes. However plain brown eyes are neutral. They are really not masculine unless really dark.

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I didn't add my name before, but obviously it is Karen. I posted all the photos up above. Please don't hate me because I agree with Emily that blonde hair is more feminine! I am not a blonde BTW! I am a red head:) Yes, I do think red hair is more feminine although it is a flamboyant hair color!

I didn't agree with Emily 100% though, because I am an objective person.

I have been watching this site for a while!

I have a few more notes:

Godis:

I noticed the tension between you and Emily. I think it was mean in a post where you said that you didn't like "pink pig skin" or something like that. If you look at the photo of the blonde girl with "pink" skin above, you can see that pink skin is very attractive. Besides, her skin is not actually pink. It is her skin tone that is pink.

I also think you have ego problems too! Sorry, but you do. But I do have to say that I agree that Asians and other races can be attractive too. Not just Nordics. That is why I tried to post photos of Asians too. I got most of these photos from the site by the way.

I also wanted to note that I think Barberella is telling the truth. I can tell by her writing style that she is from the Great Lakes area. I am from that area too. I actually think from your writing style you are too!

I'd also like to note that I noticed there is an email on one of my posts. This is one of my classmates email. I don't know how I accidentally posted it. I don't remember copying it? Erik, if there is any way you can take it off I would appreciate it because even though they may never find it I don't think they'd be too happy if they knew I accidentally posted it on a public forum. They are in my chemistry class and we are doing a group project and we will be using the internet for it, so I hope we don't come across it! Thanks!

Oh, now I know how I posted that email by accident! Silly me! I am like dyslexic and I have trouble spelling words or I sometimes add an extra letter or something. I have a list of words I can never spell. One of them is darken. I always spell it darkin. So, I copied my classmates email which is darken.dtec@ etc. etc. So, that is how it got on there. Please take it off Erik Thanks!

Karen:

Nobody said you can't agree with Emily. I just disagree that blonde hair and blue eyes are the most feminine. I don't think that colors are really feminine or masculine, except how you said, in extremes. But, I do think brown eyes or say hazel eyes are warmer toned and therefore slightly more feminine than sharp blue eyes. Similarly, I feel warm hair colors are more feminine. Maybe I'm being slightly biased, but I do feel blue eyes are too light most of the time. I like grey eyes on guys though, I agree grey eyes are masculine.

I probably do have an ego problem but who are you to judge anyways? Another thing I don't get is how nobody judges Emily for her ego problem. The girl's every argument centers on how HER race is better than anyones. You claim her terms for dark colors "vulgar" and "impure" are subjective? That's all you could say about that! They are downright rude! How the hell is a hair color "impure"? Get real people. Get real. She obviously feels the degrade anything non-nordic.

Lastly, I don't recall calling Scandinavian skin "pig pink". I think I just referred to it as pink. I did call Nordic noses pig noses, but that is a whole different story. If I did call it that I was probably angry and not serious, and of course I'm sorry. But the truth is I don't like pink skin. I get how other people can like it, but I can't! I just don't find it attractive. Big deal. I'm sorry but the photo you posted of the Nordic girl with pink skin doesn't appeal to me. I think she is very pretty and feminine, but I think if it were just her cheeks that were pink and not her skin she would look better. Hey, I can have my preferences too. I have pink cheeks, and the skin on my face can sometimes look slightly pink if I drink a bit of wine or when I used to run. That's when I take the cover up out. lol Some people have told me I look good right after running. So there you go, some people like pink skin. And ok ok, its technically a "skin tone". W/E.

As for where I live, how can you possibly know that? Honestly. By my writing style? Ok. W/E. I'll never say on here where I live. I guess I can convince myself Barberella is not Emily, but in the back of my mind I will always feel like she is. But I def. don't think you are Emily, although I have a slight suspicion too. I am always a bit suspicious Emily creates alter egos to appear nicer and more objective. I don't think you are one, but I always will suspect Barberella subconciously no matter how hard I try not to. For now, I'll just treat them as different people and stop accusing.

And one of your photos, the one where she is in a swimsuit, is bad. That is just not a good representation. I also want to add that Rose McGowan is not ideal. I know she is in Erik's attractive women's section but I think she isn't all that feminine:

Rose McGowan Pictures, Images and Photos

rose mcgowan Pictures, Images and Photos

Rose McGowan 30 Pictures, Images and Photos

Emily:

What can I say. You always find a way to bring up the whole "blue eyed blonde thing". As a blonde, I understand the bias. I do. But, at the same time it's lame you can just barely see the beauty in other things. I mean you tried. You really tried. But after you added some compliments of dark hair you called it "vulgar" and "impure". Please.

BTW:

Karen,

You do know that writing styles can change, just like accents. If I move to Australia, chances are I will start speaking in an Australian accent. This is because you start to mimick the people you are around or talk to. Similarly, people pick up writing styles. I've used some words I've never used before, but have used because I've read other people's posts using those words. The reason I don't see this as a possibility for why Barberella writes like Emily is because she wrote a lot like Emily from the minute she posted on here. Unless she has been watching the site and reading a bit of it, like you have, I doubt she would have automatically picked up on the writing style.

And Emily like to call ME manipulative, but I am manipulative on little things and at least i can admit it. Emily is the BIG manipulator here. I'm not saying you can't agree with her. Just make sure you understand 100% what she REALLY means in her posts before you do. That's all I'm going to say.

Anonymous:

I can see how diversity makes a population seem more attractive. You simply have more colors to choose from. In the end though it depends on the individual. It doesn't matter if your race has tons of colors. In the end if the most attractive girl in every aspect has black hair and brown eyes, that is what your getting. It's not like you get to screw 50 women with 50 diff. hair and eye color combinations. In the end it's about 1 girl. So diversity ends there. You get what you get. If you get a blue eyed blonde, your diversity ends there. You will see blue eyes and blonde hair everyday. Period.

Thank you for putting up the photos of the brunettes, which so beautifully prove my case.

Not even ONE of those women are actually helped by their blackish hair or eyes. Blackish-brown as a colour adds no femininity whatsoever to a face. It adds hardness, as the last photo godis put up shows.

Why is the girl in the photo above the last one much more appealing? Because she has lighter brown hair that adds softness. Soft = feminine.

If you look carefully at these photos you will see that the LIGHTER and SOFTER the brown colour is the MORE femininity it will add, and likewise, when the colour approaches black it will add hardness to the face.

A woman who is very dark will be feminine inspite of that hard colour, as her face will have to work in its own, so to speak.

Elizabeth Taylor is one example. Her beautiful blue eyes compensate for the hardness of her blackish hair. Vivien Leigh is another. Dark brown hair, but amazing, sparkling light bluegreen eyes that compensate for the dark hair colour.

Black, as a raw colour, is in UNfeminine, hard and masculine. That colour signals masculinity, and that is why men are generally more pigmented and darker than the women of the SAME ethnicity.

The blonde hair colour will add softness and femininity and youth to a face, and that is why so many brunettes put highlights or bleach their hair as they will seem more feminine and young.

Half of Spain consists of blonde wome, lol, and almost all men are dark brunettes. It must be because their women want to be more masculine that they bleach their hair!

PS. When I speak of blonde I technically refer to light brown, too. My beef lies with the blackish-brown/black. That colour, which most of the world has, adds masculinity. That is why women throughout history have envied blondes and tried to bleach their hair so they can look more feminine.

Godis;

"As a blonde, I understand the bias. I do."

You are not a blonde. You are a self-confessed bleached blonde. Don't confuse yourself with the real deal, honey. lol

In my experience, some of the worst and most envious and catty comments directed at natural blondes come from women who bleach their hair. It is anyone's guess why..

Regarding bias, I am biased in favour of femininity and beauty. Lighter hair and eyes are more feminine, on average, and that's why I will naturally prefer those colours.

"I didn't add my name before, but obviously it is Karen. I posted all the photos up above. Please don't hate me because I agree with Emily that blonde hair is more feminine! I am not a blonde BTW! I am a red head:)"

Red hair usually falls in the category of the blondes. Unless it is tinted very dark red, naturally red hair usually has softness and lightness to it, so there really is no difference there.

Redheads usually have very soft colours to go with their hair, creamy white skin and light green eyes, for example, which adds femininity. Readheads are almost never so dark as to become masculine like a very dark brunette. I've never seen that, anyway.

"The latins invented the word and made the idea popular. Latins are dark. Latins are stereotyped as being more passionate. Passion is romantic."

The one who "invented" the word has no monopoly on human emotions.

Romance and passion are two entirely different things that often exist separately. Those words are not synonymous at all.

There is often passion without any kind of romantic feelings involved, on the part of men.

Romantic feelings in men inspire protection and fidelity. Passion alone never does. That is the difference.

Passion in men very often means just being in lust.

Romantic feelings in men is quite another thing, and it will exist independently from feelings of passion and lust.

Passion also has hardness and aggression involved in it. Romanticism and hardness do not go hand in hand. Romanticism inspires love, tenderness, caring and devotion.

Passion is often sudden, explosive, but also fleeting.

Romanticism is lasting and enduring. It is harder to evoke in men but when it is there you will have won his heart, not just his desire.

Softer, sweeter and lighter colours will more easily inspire romantic feelings of protection and devotion. Hard, very dark colours will often inspire only lust and passion.

"What about the greatest romance stories of all time? What about gone with the wind? "

The heroine was indeed a brunette. Her character was also masculine in a way. She was strong, aggressive, wild, unrelenting, headstrong and inventive..traditionally more masculine traits she needed in order to survive.

Her masculine sides made the choice of hair colour for the heroine more logical, so in fact, she helps prove my point. Scarlett is an untraditional and masculine heroine, more geared to women than to men.

Her eyes are very feminine, though. The absolutely gorgeous, cat-like clear green colour adds femininity, and it is far from blackish brown and hard.

The fact remains that the blonde, fair and blue-eyed maiden is what most people think of when they are supposed to describe a romantic heroine, a princess in distress, a feminine girl who needs the help of a man. Men want to feel needed.

The blonde heroine has allowed them to feel needed and wanted as a man. She is soft, sweet, feminine and tender, and she lets him know she is there for him always.

The dark woman is often portrayed as fickle, hard, aggressive, sexual and dangerous. The type of girl a man can have a lot of fun with, but who is not the best one to love, trust and have a family with.

Stereotypes, yes, but maybe based on some elemental things colours evoke in us.

Aw! Erik is so sweet! I asked him to change my big email mistake on one of the posts and he already did! See, he does check this site. I think someone said he hasn't been on here in a while, but obviously he does check and read the site:)

Emily,

I can see how maybe lighter colors would make those women slightly more interesting, and maybe even more attractive. If anyone here has photoshop and is good at it, can you take a photo of one of those women and photoshop the eyes, hair, and skin so we could see if she looks better? I'd do it. It really is an interesting study: Do light colors suggest femininity and to what degree?

I agree lighter colors suggest femininity. But this troubles me because Nordic men often have lighter features. I don't think that makes MEN more feminine. Nordic men rarely look feminine to me, even if they do have light colors. So, this needs to be investigated further. Why women, but not men?

In the end though I disagree that dark colors are really all that masculine. I will state again that I think extreme colors are most masculine. Think about it. In caucasian children many kids are born with platinum blonde hair. As they grow, their hormones causes the color to darken over time. Usually by the time they are full grown, they will have a nice soft caramel or strawberry blonde, or a very light honey brown. This is not as harsh on the eye as a bright blonde. Similarly, dark brown is a more feminine color than black. Black, obviously is a harsh color as well, especially since it brings out every flaw on the face.

In the end it goes to show though that someone who is beautiful and has black hair, is a true beauty. Black hair brings out every flaw, so if you look good with it, and not just because you have the right skin tone, you almost have to be really feminine.

I have to say I don't see a lot of angels depicted with dark hair? Why blonde? Anyone else have any alternative explanations except that it is more youthful?

Godis,

Emily did say "vulgar" and "impure" but at the same time you've used mean words to describe characteristics too, so its kind of hypocritical to complain:)

beauty site 08/14/2009 - 09:09

by Karen link

Godis,

''can you take a photo of one of those women and photoshop the eyes, hair, and skin so we could see if she looks better?''

There are many factors that may affect weather a woman looks better with a certain hair/eye colour over another for example certain facial features may make one look average with light hair wheras certain other facial features may make one look more attractive with that same light hair colour so the question is is that particular hair/eye colour objectively beautifull or is it just that certain features make it more tolerable.

link | Submitted by Emily on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 08:39.

''The dark woman is often portrayed as fickle, hard, aggressive, sexual and dangerous.''

What more could a man want than a dangerous woman? A vapid weak haired weak looking blonde? Wake up live in the real world.

Karen;

"Emily, you claim that even Italian painters depicted beautiful women as blonde. Yes. They also depicted the ideal man as having a small penis, but that doesn't mean it is ideal or what every woman desires."

I'm sorry but that is one of the more ridiculous and faulty comparisons I have seen here.

A penis is a sexual organ. As such it is obviously taboo in a way that hair colour is not. Putting large penises on sculptures would distract and turn the focus to it in an improper way. Making it very discreet was the best and socially the only accepted way to portray it in art.

I noted that you chose one of the more sissy sculptures of Michelangelo. There are many more manly sculptures, though.

Hair colour is not associated with a sexual organ. There is no reason whatsoever not to choose the black/dark brown hair colour for an Italian painter. His only true motive for not doing so is the very same one I have seen for myself in Italy..they adore natural blondes in an almost fanatical way. They did it then and they do it now.

Blonde hair is chosen since it is the most feminine and sweet hair colour, and therefore suited to portray femininity and beauty. Painters all over Europe love to use it. By blonde I refer to anything from very light blonde to light brown, where there the light and the sun can naturally play.

Karen;

"I will state again that I think extreme colors are most masculine."

You can state that all you want to. It doesn't make it true. Black/dark brown is a colour linked to masculinity as it involves greater pigmentation of the skin. Men are generally darker than women of the same ethnic group.

Blonde hair is linked instead to femininity, youth and childhood. It involves lesser pigment. Black is always harder and more masculine than blonde, which in itself is not masculine at all, no matter how blonde.

I doubt all those Hollywood goddesses who were really blonde thought they were looking more masculine all of a sudden after their hair bleaching. I doubt their bosses and male admirers thought so either.

I personally prefer a slightly less blonde tone, but to say the platinum blonde is a masculine hair colour and compare it to black is ridiculous.

"No, you have not. Why do you lie?"

You're the one who lies. Look at the many other discussions on here where you've wimpered out. What have I done? I've posted opinions of the japanese on whites prior to western contact. You dismissed it as a "lie". I posted how men found brunettes and black haired women when they were more of a rarity. You haven't said a thing about it.

"As for spewing bile, anyone who reads your comment can see you are projecting on me your own sins."

Someone who endlessly goes on about the objective beauty of nordic women and everyone else as so "masculine" is the one spewing bile.

"This has nothing to do with "contempt" for people, it has everything to do with femininity and beauty, which this site is about. Try to understand the difference."

You are so full of shit Emily. I'm sick of you. In all of these arguments, you have probably, if not at all, NEVER posted ANY actual psychological, academic etc. evidence to back yourself up. You endlessly argue for the superiority of nordic white women's beauty over everyone else, even your own fellow whites, and just LOVE to trash on non-whites whenever you get the chance, ESPECIALLY asians. You have a blinding desire to prove nordic women with light hair and eyes ALONE are more objectively beautiful than everyone else.

Want another example of how you can't really debate? Here: http://www.femininebeauty.info/objective-comparisons-in-beauty-pageants?page=1

Look at your post prior to mine. You didn't even respond to those massive ones leveled against you.

"You just can't stand that white women of Nordic type are more feminine and beautiful, on average, and that most other women don't compare when you assess and compare femininity."

Your extremities go beyond the simple laws of averages, especially in the case of non-whites, where you think they have to have extreme plastic surgery and white admixture to look good. I'd fully accept the idea of nordic women being at the ideal of female beauty if there was evidence.

It's just that... there isn't. I just see an incredibly spiteful, bigoted, misanthropic little girl trashing on non-nordics the world over.
By the way, so glad you only responded to a couple aspects of my post! That seems to be a common trend for you.

I'm not going to bother much more with you now. Karen seems more interested, and while I don't fully agree with her, she seems to be more able to go another round with your nordic fetishist bile. I'll just comment on a couple more things though:

"Black, as a raw colour, is in UNfeminine, hard and masculine. That colour signals masculinity, and that is why men are generally more pigmented and darker than the women of the SAME ethnicity."

You sure do love to extrapolate basic metaphoric ideals and associations with color, then, go on to juxtapose them on to full scale perceptions of human beauty, don't you?

Watch this:

Black is the color of, well, low lighting conditions. Darkness. Humans don't like darkness. It has alot of connotations with horror, terror, fear etc. Therefore, black hair and skin and eyes are like that, and therefore disgusting colors on women!
White is the color of bone. Bones and skeletons are universally associated with death in human cultures. Therefore, white skin and very light hair are terrible, ugly colors on women.

Humans certainly do have innate color preferences, but it is PROFOUNDLY broad, and making inane generalizations like you do can lead to what I've detailed. By the way, I know men are darker, but the difference between sexes regardless of race is INCREDIBLY MINUTE. I have NEVER noticed this difference in my entire life. I've run into virtually nobody who's noticed this difference themselves. If light skin as a broad neotenic trait is equivalent to an innate beauty standard, just why would humans select for something that's not even percievable to most people?

In regards to the issue of contrasts and the like, I think its largely dependent on lighting conditions, shadowing, etc. Some hair and eye colors look better under certain conditions, others don't. I've seen this pic posted before in response to one of your detractors: http://tinypic.com/r/s5h7ig/3

The woman on the right has such light blonde hair and light skin that her eyebrows almost blend with eachother. Though, this can look far better under certain lighting conditions. Even combinations that would appear more "harmonious" in comparison to this would look worse under certain lighting conditions.

The same holds true for skin color. Black skin can blend in easily with darker settings and appear more shaded, yet light skin can appear, well, sickly and lifeless under high lighting. Consider Nicola Roberts- I don't find her that attractive, but I do like her skin, although under high lighting conditions, well, it looks terrible:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/03/article-0-02270ECB00000578-336_468x631.jpg

"Half of Spain consists of blonde wome, lol, and almost all men are dark brunettes. It must be because their women want to be more masculine that they bleach their hair!"

Proof?!? Blonde hair is at pretty low frequencies in Spain.

"I personally prefer a slightly less blonde tone, but to say the platinum blonde is a masculine hair colour and compare it to black is ridiculous."

No. It borders on the hair of the elderly. It almost looks fully white. But I don't think it's innately interpreted as so- it's just that such an association might be more apparent to some people.

""No, you have not. Why do you lie?"

You're the one who lies. Look at the many other discussions on here where you've wimpered out. What have I done? I've posted opinions of the japanese on whites prior to western contact. You dismissed it as a "lie"."

Prove that I lie. Don't make accusations based on nothing.
I don't believe in that story. That doesn't make me a liar, it makes your "evidence" weak.

I also think it is totally irrelevant. What does it matter what the Japanese thought once of white people? Today Asians, including the Japanese, love everything that is white and try to physically emulate that race as much as they can. Plastic surgery is booming in Asia and I can tell you that not even ONE of those who underwent it went out looking more Asian.

As for whimping out I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no interest in endless quarrels with people who just resort to personal insults and personal attacks. If you lower the standard in that way you don't deserve a reply.

If someone doesn't think I am right that's OK, by the way. We all have our opinions, and unlike you, I don't start personally insulting someone who don't share my view, I explain why I disagree.

Light blondeness will never add masculinity. It can look unnatural, but that's not the same thing.

This is NOT to say that there are no feminine, very dark-haired women. There are, but they are not feminine due to their hard and very dark hair- and eye colours, but in spite of them.

Generally speaking, lighter colours will add softness to the face, which is an important aspect of femininity, I think.

Those who look least feminine are those with lots of dark skin pigment and black hair and eyes to go with it, as my photos of such women showed. Even famous actresses look more masculine due to those unappealing hard colours.

In Hollywwod during the 40's and 50's femininity in women was valued and glorified. They would never have used all those very blonde screen goddesses if they in any way, shape or form were more masculine with that hair colour.

The best way for a man to appear gay is for him to dye his hair extremely blonde. Why is that, if the colour is not feminine? That colour will add femininity to his face. Homosexuals know this.

Blond men are masculine in spite of their very blonde hair, not because of it. There are many such handsome men where I live in Sweden. Most men have slightly darker and stronger pigment than the women, though.

Masculine Swedish man with blond hair;

Another Swede with blond hair;

Marilyn as a brunette;

And as a very light blonde. More masculine? Hardly. The blonde tone makes her more feminine since it removes the hardness of the dark brown colour and adds light. She is more angelic and sweet with the light colour. Hollywood knew this effect and used it often.

Rose McGowan as a dark brunette;

And as a lighter redhead;

The lighter read colour makes her face more feminine since it takes away the hardness of the black hair colour. She can look dramatic with the black colour, bot less feminine because she will look less soft.

We can never just say that one with lighter pigmentation in regards to eye or skin color is more attractive or even more feminine, until we can do experiments to test this hypothesis out. I'm not a scientist, but I would assume that one would use the scientific method. It would take a while for me to conduct an experiment like this. It would also take extreme precautions, and even after that the study would have flaws. The best I could do was use my cheap program at home to mimick a Photoshop. I altered the hair color and eyes of a few chosen celebrities. The eyes are not shaded, because the program was not sensitive enough to allow me to keep the natural shading of the eyes. The hair is shaded, although slightly desaturated and lightened, so the shading is lightened overall as well. Here are the photos. Compare for yourselves. I would like to note that I selected caucasian women. Judging by Kate Beckinsale's assumed natural hair color and more importantly her skin tone, I can guess she was probably blonde as a child or a light brunette. That is why I decided she was a perfect candidate for hair lightening. I did this to be more objective. It wouldn't make sense to select for example, an Indian woman, and give her blonde hair and blue eyes because her skin tone (which is extremely hard to alter even with Photoshop) would be off and therefore attractiveness would not be as accuratley assessed.

Before photo of Kate Beckinsale with assumed natural hair color(original photo):

PHOTO 1!

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After, photo of Kate Beckinsale with altered lighter hair color:

PHOTO 2!

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Non-photoshopped photo of Kate Beckinsale with dyed lightened hair:

PHOTO 3!

Elizabeth icon Pictures, Images and Photos

Notes: In all honesty, I should have posted each photo right next to each other side by side to get the most accurate comparison. But I'm not going to get anal on this little "experiment" as it has extreme flaws already.

Before: Kate Beckinsale with natural hazel/brown eye color(original photo)

PHOTO 1!

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After: Kate Beckinsale with altered eye color and original hair color

PHOTO 4!

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After: Kate Beckinsale with altered hair and eye color

PHOTO 5!

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Notes: Altered hair color is exactly the same in each photo because I only altered it once. I simply altered the eye color after the hair color.

So people, please comment and decide for yourselves. Answer these questions if you would like (for both male/female). I would like to add that women can be attracted to certain features in other women, even though they may not be attracted to the woman in a sexual way. Also, if you would not like to answer a question, just type in N/A.:
1) Are you male or female?
2) Generally, which hair color do the females around you on a daily basis display?
3) Generally, which eye color do the females around you on a daily basis display?
4) Which hair color are you most attracted to in women? Be honest.
5) Which eye color are you most attracted to in women?
6) Which hair color are you least attracted to in women?
7) Which eye color are you least attracted to in women?
8) Which photo of Kate Beckinsale are you most attracted to? PHOTO 1,2,3,4,5?
9) Can you explain why you are most attracted to this photo?
10) Which photo do you percieve to be most feminine? PHOTO 1,2,3,4,5?
11) Is that the photo you are also most attracted to? If not, can you explain why?
12) Do you believe there is a strong correlation between femininity and attractiveness in an individual?
13) Do you believe coloring can be correlated to femininity or attractiveness? If so, which coloring specifically?
14) Do you believe coloring is important to an individual's attractiveness? Femininity?

That's all. If anyone else can think of any more questions, than please add!

Here are similar photos. You can answer the same questions for these too, minus any hair color questions because hair color was not altered in the following:

Hayden Paniettere:

PHOTO 1 (Original)!

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PHOTO 2!

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PHOTO 3 (Original)!

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PHOTO 4!

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PHOTO 5!

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I've decided to take a very receptive attitude on this website. I'm sure eventually I will argue my points, but for now I'd like to know everyone else's opinions and why they believe they have their opinions. If anyone believes for any reason they may not be 100% objective, please say so. It is common sense that everyone will not be objective. However, please people for the sake of truth, be as objective as possible!

Let's look at it this way. Is it so wrong to find the truth even though it may not appeal to you? If you are "ugly" then why wouldn't you find the best way to make sure your offspring is better off? The best way to know that is to percieve what is universally considered attractive. Let's face it. People are more receptive to attractive people. Attractive people get job interviews easily, they even get jobs more easily. Attractive people have more friends. Etc. This is basically true. I doubt there are very many TRUE attractive people on planet Earth. So please, I don't want to get anyone worked up. This is the truth of life. It is unfair. However, most people are not attractive to the bone. I would say that 95% of the people we percieve to be attractive are pseudo-attractive in at least one way.This can range from eye contacts, to hair dye, to plastic surgery. However, keep in mind that things like better nutrition, dental care, exercise, etc. keep the playing field unleveled as well.

By learning about beauty and figuring out what makes human beings beautiful, we can increase the frequency of beautiful people. Beauty doesn't equal happyness, but it sure can make life more comfortable can't it? Beauty is also connected to health and fertility it seems. I am not sure how high the figures are, but there is a connection regardless.

I think that even if we figured out that certain colors are more feminine and therefore perhaps more attractive, we would also have to figure out to what extent they are more attractive. We would then have to figure out the extent of attractiveness of other features and compare. We would then have to figure out the marginal difference. Ex: How much more attractive is a person if the hair color is lightened by X shades?

Hmm.. Kate Beckinsale is not an example of what I was talking about. In the first photo she doesn't have the very hard, dark hair colour that I referred to, so she is not a valid example.

Compare her to my photos of Rose McGowan and Marilyn.

As I have said before it is only the very hard blackish-brown colour, the type that practically only absorbs light, that I find masculine and too hard. Kate is not an example of that.

You can't put fake blue-green on the eyes and compare it to Kate's natural eye colour since no one would find a very fake-looking eye colour attractive.

You did a better job with Hayden, I think, and there you see that her softer, natural, eye colour makes her more feminine. Blackish eyes don't look feminine and often look hard.

It is very hard to alter hair- and eye colour using photoshop and similar programs since it often looks fake. Especially Kate's hair and eyes look unnatural.

Marilyn and Rose were better example since the photos are theirs and original. I tried to find photos of Kate with blackish hair colour but it seems she prefers a lighter colour, knowing it looks more feminine, I suppose.

I think Karen raised some very good questions. People are attracted to, I think, what is familiar (note the root word family, people have the tendency to be innately attracted to what is comfortable and evokes safety and security, perhaps), what is pleasing to the eye based on their experiences, and what is (aestheticly) symmetrical as well. I would say that facial and body symmetry, as well as coloring, is what people see first, before their minds register any other details. As far as the coloring issue, I agree with Emily, lighter is softer, and more romantic, in my opinion. Some people have said that blue and green eyes are hard, but that's not what regesters with me when I see them. I am more attracted to blue eyes on men, even, because it takes on a whole new impression. Anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about can refer to Paul Newman, for example. Beautiful.

I, too, find that red hair is very soft. It is a common shade found in my family, and I can assure you, my male cousins absolutlely hated having red hair, they said it's only flattering on women. Maybe because it's feminine?

sdfga

"The rarity of these colors have also added to the mystique and admiration."

Very true of how or why fair colors are captivating to some men. I've heard it said that fair women were far more myserious looking than dark eyed and dark haired women. Mysterious things are things that aren't commonly seen or known to people, and the rarity of fair colors in some parts of the world is the reason this is said.

"dark lustrous eyes and dark, lustrous black hair is a correlate of beauty."

To whom? If that's the only colors that women in a certain community possess, than it will have to do, I guess. If one were given the choice, however, I wonder what colors he would choose then.

I just read further back, I should have waited in commenting until I did, but this will just have to work. Godis, you called pink skin "pig skin" on the Ekaterina thread. A few times. And if you will always, deep down inside, think I'm Emily than I guess it's safe to say that you're still very, VERY deluded.

I think I'll just throw in a few more tidbits:

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/07/maxims-audience-prefers-brunettes.php
http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/01/blondes-are-not-sexier-what-theory.php

I don't consider Maxim the most reliable source for male preferences in beauty- it largely appeals to the mouth breathing white college fratboys who think Hollywood actresses are the pinnacles of female beauty- but it's still something to consider, along with the extremely high frequency of brunettes and other dark haired women in the miss universe and miss USA winners: http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/01/blondes-are-not-sexier-what-theory.php

...Hell, Maxim has horrible taste in general: http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/002070.html

Barely manages to beat out "hotties" like J. Lo and Britney Spears. Good lord.

I am a woman and for most of my life I have hated my body because it looks so much like a man's: large features, big nose, broad shoulders, wide rib cage, small breasts, short waist, fat stomach, narrow hips, big hands and feet, long, skinny, but muscular arms and legs, shall I go on? I could not bear a child vaginally and needed a c-section; I was even fitted for the very smallest diaphragm. My husband and I suffered through several years of miscarriages before we finally had our son (who is now a wonderful, healthy teen) - among the many tests we took to try to diagnose the reason for the miscarriages, a hormone test revealed that I was abnormally deficient in - yes, TESTOSTERONE. So there, everyone who is reading this, go and look at this site and how it goes on and on about how it is the testosterone that makes for a masculinized body, etc. etc. Hello??? Can anyone explain this to me??? I guess I have been cursed beyond my fair allotment with various genetic material that has resulted in this unfortunate anomaly that is my body. I wish I could die and come back as a "real" woman - I would revel in the opportunity to dress seductively, show off the curves that I never had and never will have, engage in fun sex with men who see me as an attractive WOMAN! If anything, I get looks of disgust from guys, if they look at me at all. It is painful beyond words to be "invisible" - even to your own husband. Even the "average" woman who may feel a bit self-conscious about the size of her breasts or her hips - I say that you should revel in what you've been given, enjoy it to the max, because honey, compared to me, you've got nothing to complain about, believe me!!!

Liz, EVERY woman can be beautiful, in her own right...

Liz, testosterone is only related to masculinity on average, it's not a universal relationship.

Emily, am I not mistaken that the site owner mainly shows Nordic women as examples of masculinized femininity? Are we all browsing the same site here? I am white and attended an all white high school and most of the girls had wider rib cages and similar hips. Most of the "beatiful" girls were athletic cheerleaders and didnt have nearly the body type that Scarlett Johansen has; they had more like the soccer women and asian cheerleaders you posted. Tall waify women and hippy, small waisted are rare (and rare outside of the 14 yr old population). It's RARE that a woman have hour glass shapes. A boyish figure with small chest and narrow hips, with more weight is more common among women than a Kim Kardashian body. So for the media to promote this as the "Standard" would be false. So to say that softer, rounder features are more feminine and the gays have distorted femininity is ridiculous, because MOST women arent like the "ideal" women on this site anyway. And Im talking about white women too.

Should femininity be narrowed to only a small group of women that rarely exist, and even then would not fit into the category after childbirth? No, it's ridiculous. If you have a vagina, own a set of ovaries, a womb, youre a feminine woman. Wide hips and stated skull size are optional.

I disagree with statement that whites contributed most in gene mixing, the asian countries that mixed with white the most such as philipines and much of southeast asia, their population aren't turning into better looking than the rest of asia,quiet the contrary, in fact the ones that least mixed with white is best looking, maybe whites and black mixed produced better looking blacks but that is not the case for asian

the most miss perception is that white is the source of beauty, while the pattern is universal, they are not the source, and people that trying to improve their look not because the want to look white, but because the pattern of beauty is universal, it applies to every human

This website is bullshit. It is written purely according to the white, nordic standards of beauty which the authors of this site have mistakenly believed to be a universally applicable norm. It is not. Standards of beauty vary greatly based on the society in which they are found. If any the nordic "purists" who dominate this discussion board were born into a different culture, they would have a completely different concept of what beauty is. You can't scientifically categorize beauty, as the meaning of the term is entirely objective.

But as it is, you all have set a pretty high anorexic, pasty, hair straightened bar of narrow and highly idealized beauty for yourselves. Good fucking luck with that. Have fun salvaging what little will be left of your "perfect race" in the next century as an increasing number of white and black people marry for an interesting new thing called "love", and not for precise waist and bust ratios.

I tell you guys the truth, the ugliest asians I've seen my whole life in asia, are the ones with european ancestry, not the 1st or the 2nd generation of them, but after the 3rd 4th generations of asian with european/white ancestry look the most hideous looking.

funny thing is that people here put up a pictures of ugly asians from thai and philipines, those asian countries known to be mixing with white for centuries and generations even tll today, and pretty much all southeast asian countries like indonesia, singapore, malaysia, etc. there are a lot of mix breed asian-white all over asia, even japan, the only country that exempt from it is korea, and they have the best looking asian alive

while black and white-mix produce better looking people, just look at brazil and other south america, they look hot (body) and gorgeous, I think white-asian mixed produce worst looking people over time, while black-white mixed produce better looking generations
that's my observations, I've been all over asia and south america and witnessed this phenomena myself, just check out michael jackson family, I think michael's dad was biracial, because michael said that his dad has blue eye, and his family seem to looks better over time, and michael's kids are the most gorgeous in hollywood, you can see it yourself and there are a lot of examples of black and white mixed produced better looking people over time while asian-white mixed is the opposite

example of Alicia keys. ( black-white biracial) yes, she is pretty but not at the first glance. her shape looks slightly mascular. you can clearly see she has got a manish arms and a board shoulders. she is big girl.

ImageMule : I ind the biracial black-white are hot but the biracial asian-white seem to look more feminine.

the example of Asian-white biracial. she is Danish part Thai and her skin looks more soft and delicate than alicia keys.

Image

I think the biracial of any races are the best because they are the new and improved from both side of their parent genes.
to me white look best when they are younger but they get old really quick and they look very ugly when they are old.

Asians look ugly from a glance but if you look at them carefully they are beautiful they have the best skin.

Latino women some are beautiful some look like a witch most of them is out of shape.

Blacks some people are good looking but in general I don't find their features attractive because they are too much of everything like everything is too big and out of proportion the lips the nose the booty

Thai-British.

Image

Thai-Danish.
Image

Filipina-Aussie.

Image

this is a picture of filipino part caucasian girl. I wish I could look like her. I think she has go the best hair and I love the brown eyes and brown hair. they made you look smart and not helpless........what's a cute girl?
Image

Oh shut up "bookworm". It obvious from the way you speak you haven't read a decent book in years. You are just another two bit racist.

I think people that put pictures of beautiful asian-white mixed are a bit ignorance, I'm asian I lived all my life in asia, I have many friends all over asia, particularly southeast asia, a lot of them have european ancestry, and there are A LOT of them...and they are FAR from looking attractive, let alone average, some of them look (sorry) too ugly people will NEVER consider them Biracial, because they don't look like white/european at all, they look like flat face asians, I think the problem is that people see the 1st, 2nd generations of white-asian mixed and think that all their generations will look more caucasian, well I tell you that it is completly WRONG, after the 3rd generations these people turning into flat faced asians, the oppposite of white, and they themselves don't feel like biracial since they look nothing like white, and they feel it is their asian part that gave them that flat face look, it is sad, most of them suffered self esteem issues, while black-white mixed show they are more confident, ex: vin diesel

I really think that asian-white mixed are turning into worse OVERTIME, but white-black mixed turning into gorgeous OVERTIME you can compare the general population where those mixed are concentrated, south america, brazil etc even miami where these people ancestors are black and white mixed, the population are turning hot, while philipines, thai, indonesia, etc. with asian-white mixed ancestors, their population in general tend to look uglier over time and a lot of them suffer mental/psychological issues

i first hand witnessed this myself, and I'm not racist, just give my opinion from my own personal observation, pardon my broken english

and all asians tend to look up to japanese and specially south korea for beauty, and people in that countries are the least likely to mixed with white, specially south korea and asians worshiped them, coincidence? now that's another evidence to prove my point

I am 5'10" and 118 pounds. I have high-cheekbones. I have a small chest. But never in my life have I ever been called "masculine". Just because a girl is tall and thins does not make her masculine. I eat more than almost anyone I know, but never gain a pound. This is very degrading to girls such as myself.
I like to think of myself as beautiful, not manly.
I actually like being thin. I accept the fact that I will never have the shape of Scarlett Johansson or Jennifer Lopez. I not only accept it, I embrace it wholeheartedly.
I am told quite often that I am pretty, beautiful, and a large number of other such complimentary words. Both by women AND by men.
I think that this website has too much of a negative outlook on naturally thin girls/women such as myself.

...: white race IS the most beautiful, and all the rest who try to say differently are either deadly jealous or try to pass black as white. That's useless, and you know it. Take care, blackies. :)

What hillbilly Southern state are you from? I am a French WHITE woman and I would never want to be associated with such a bigoted ignorant like yourself. You hate yourself that is why you have to put other people down. Probably a black woman/men stole your significant other and you feel less therefore the comments. I trully hope you evolve some brains. Now we know where all the Neanderthals went to, they evolved into people like yourself. Lol.

Violet,

Do not get so work up with Emily? First of all she is not Swedish, nor she does live in Sweden as she claims. Reason being that if she would live in Sweden she will know that most of the mannequins in the stores and ads of fashion models in Sweden, especially in Stockholm are from women of other cultures. Swedish men/women particularly prefer darker women/men. I am a French white woman who is engaged to a Swedish man originally from Stockholm and I actually told him to read some of Emily's post just for entertainment and he was laughing his head off at how far Emily is from what Swedish people like and how the culture is in the Scandinavian countries. Although there is a small percentage of diversity in Sweden, the few people that are living there are treated with equality and they mix and mingle with the rest of the population.

On another note, Emily seems to forget that 80% of the plastic surgeries in the US and Europe are performed by white women. Emily just like to speak out of her ass (pardon my French, lol). She has no evidence nor statistics for what she thinks beauty is all about, nor she has any concept of historical, economical and political facts. She probably believes that people from other races other than caucasian are probably not from a different species. Emily lives in the bigoted 50's, she hasn't progressed like the rest of the population.

Emily's Neanderthal thinking stems from insecurity other than anything. She probably lost her significant other to a woman from another race/ethnicity and this is her way of "getting back at her" for that. Emily please grow up and don't embarrass the rest of us, the caucasian population with your Neanderthal believe system. EVOLVE!

Emily,

How lovely, you are imparting your ignorance to the world. Nice will all the paintings however the most famous woman in portrayed on a painting in the entire world is THE MONA LISA which is far from what you describe as the "perfect beauty". And you should call Jessica Simpson and tell her that blonde hair inspire men to fall in love, because apparently she hasn't gotten the memo after her hot husband left her for a dark skin, dark haired, dark eye woman. Oh that hurts you doesn't it. Please stop embarrasing our race (caucasian) with your ignorant bigoted comments, some of us do not want to be associated with people like you.

Sigh with all the race-mixing; what would be the use of studying physical anthropology in the future?

Since this is the most recently active discussion that intersects with ethnic traits and innate beauty standards, let me drive the point home a tad more about how so much of this debate seems to act like whites don't have their own ethnic features-

Does anybody think it's that likely for whites to never look "too ethnic" in certain cranio-facial traits? Apparently other groups can, but why not whites? The majority of these ethnic plasic surgeries focus on nasal structures, and seem to be more convergent towards european standards.

But what if theres a trait thats too european?

Hey Elle!

Glad to see you are still checking in.

I wrote a reply for you in the reply section for this article: http://www.femininebeauty.info/stephen-marquardt-phi-mask-refuted

When you get a chance, please read it. :)

I agree with Emily. I am a non-White, but yes White people especially northern Europeans are the mist attractive and must be preserved. Mixing with WHites tend to improve the looks of the non-White group and it is the opposite with blacks.

Eric,

Right on! You are a very a thoughtful person. It's rare these days. Great website, btw!

-M

Eric,

Right on! You are a very a thoughtful person. It's rare these days. Great website, btw!

-M

I like this site for some things and dislike it for others. I would love it if I looked anything like the feminine women on here, but I don't. It is frustrating because I am not thin and tall enough for the media to like me and I am not feminine enough for this site to like me. I actually like my face and body, but I wish I had some women out there who were famous and looked like me so I didn't feel so left out. I like this site because it is showing the opposite of what the media shows me. So there is some balance there. I wish I looked more feminine, but sadly I don't. I will never get plastic surgery! I don't have high testosterone levels and I have never been mistaken for a man so I think I am okay! The parts that I think are more masculinized on me are my hips, forehead, and hairline. I am 5'4" so I guess that is more feminine and my breasts are larger.

"Dark women come across as dynamic, sexy, sultry and also impure at times". Why, thank you, Emily! I love being all those things! Also I have read that men are more likely to have blue eyes... but only by about 5-6%. Not a big number, but I thought it was worth mentioning. I think all hair and eye colors are pretty. I don't decide someone's personality based off of coloring. I personally think brown eyes (which happens to be what I have) are quite friendly and sweet looking. I think they fill up the face more. I am all for expressing your opinion, I just think you take the whole light vs dark thing very seriously. Obviously you have light hair and eyes and posting all those comments about them make you feel better. Well, Emily, I don't know what you look like, but I will tell you that you are beautiful and have gorgeous hair and eyes. I feel the need to say that because, judging by your posts, you may not hear it enough.

For Emily and American Girl...

Really girls, beauty does come from the way you look, but it's more important to have personality. And when I say personality I'm not talking about "oh she looks gorgeous" or "oh she is popular", that's the way stupid people think. There are a bunch of girls out there who look ok, but they are so dull, and maybe a guy will date them because they look "hot" but they are not even capable of mantaining a relationship where the guy gives his life for them, they are superficial and inmature, and they are not what a man is looking for. An imponent personality is hard, not sweet,"romantic", or cute. A person that has a strong personality is much more attractive, I mean she is inteligent , she has beautiful feelings, and she is too much for a guy. For example Natalie Portman, she studied at Harvard, she is beautiful , and she has a lot of attitude, she can stand out everywhere. I can't name many celebrities that really have personality, because I don't believe they are inteligent people, come on they act for making money... THEY ACT.

About the eye colour discussion, they depend on who is wearing them. And you should know that by now. And yes there can be soft faces with brown eyes, examples are Keira Knightley, Natalie Portman, Emma Watson. End of the conversation.

Erik:
All this stuff about being femenine or masculine is shity, I mean , either you are a woman or a man . There are a lot of genetic variations, and maybe a femenine body attracts more men, but actually even if Giselle Bundchen or Alessandra Ambrosio have a masculine faces they are attractive. If all woman had the super femenine faces you describe , I think that we will all look the same, we will be like identical viruses. Some woman should start to catalogue men, just as you guys do it, and maybe then you will start worring about your appearance and not about the appearance of the woman around. If you will answer that your intention is for woman to distinguish between femenine and masculine and that's all , maybe you should take into consideration that your page comes out in google when you write " beauty" or "femenine" and that your articles are not exactly what a woman that searches for those words are looking for, you should change to something like " masculinization in woman".
I mean the articles are not bad at all, they talk about facts that are interesting, but if you are talking about something so serious (the body of people) , you should make sure you don't exposethe page to the wrong readers. I mean Heidi Klum, Giselle or the other models didn't chosed their faces when they where in their mother's whomb, even if their faces are somehow masculine they continue being beautiful. Another thing , I don't believe that all the people that acces the web page are expecting to see all those porn stars that you posted, I know that you use them as an example , but the page is really accesible for little girls .

To the readers :
If you are not a plastic surgeon, or someone really interesed in aesthetics ( in a mature way) stop reading this kind of pages, and stop worring so much about if you have a beautiful face or body, you better start going to a gym , or make something good about your hair ... I don't know ... start making all those things that make you feel beautiful, there's no way that you can change your skeleton , there's no way that you can make your legs longer , there's no plasic surgery that will make you look taller or shorter. Love yourself and take care of your body. If you think you need a plastic surgery like a liposuction , a rhinplasty or anything just get information and talk to an expert and do it. Reading this kind of things will take you anywhere, making something about will.

atte: someone who thinks this page is not objective.

From the point of view of genetics I would propose the reason so many mixed race people are attractive is really because they are the product of two highly inbred parents and the infusion of new genes greatly strenghtens the offspring. Most races are highly inbred as they come from geographic regions founded by a limited number of ancestors so that most people are related . Thus if two people from different ethnicities reproduce their children are likely to combine sets of genes never seen in either race alone - hence they are healthy, intelligent and beautiful on the whole.
Thus mixing races is the desirable way to populate the earth rather than inbreeding within ethnicities to the point where "everyone looks the same" and kids are weak, ill, allergy prone etc as we now observe.

From the point of view of genetics I would propose the reason so many mixed race people are attractive is really because they are the product of two highly inbred parents and the infusion of new genes greatly strenghtens the offspring. Most races are highly inbred as they come from geographic regions founded by a limited number of ancestors so that most people are related . Thus if two people from different ethnicities reproduce their children are likely to combine sets of genes never seen in either race alone - hence they are healthy, intelligent and beautiful on the whole.
Thus mixing races is the desirable way to populate the earth rather than inbreeding within ethnicities to the point where "everyone looks the same" and kids are weak, ill, allergy prone etc as we now observe.

From the point of view of genetics I would propose the reason so many mixed race people are attractive is really because they are the product of two highly inbred parents and the infusion of new genes greatly strenghtens the offspring. Most races are highly inbred as they come from geographic regions founded by a limited number of ancestors so that most people are related . Thus if two people from different ethnicities reproduce their children are likely to combine sets of genes never seen in either race alone - hence they are healthy, intelligent and beautiful on the whole.
Thus mixing races is the desirable way to populate the earth rather than inbreeding within ethnicities to the point where "everyone looks the same" and kids are weak, ill, allergy prone etc as we now observe.

From the point of view of genetics I would propose the reason so many mixed race people are attractive is really because they are the product of two highly inbred parents and the infusion of new genes greatly strenghtens the offspring. Most races are highly inbred as they come from geographic regions founded by a limited number of ancestors so that most people are related . Thus if two people from different ethnicities reproduce their children are likely to combine sets of genes never seen in either race alone - hence they are healthy, intelligent and beautiful on the whole.
Thus mixing races is the desirable way to populate the earth rather than inbreeding within ethnicities to the point where "everyone looks the same" and kids are weak, ill, allergy prone etc as we now observe.

I feel dumb just coming to this website. I am white, but reading about what you racial supremacists have to say really depresses me. I'm sure I'm naive because I can't believe there are people in this world like you (Emily).

I wish we were all blind so we could judge people on their character. There is no such concept as different races; we are all part of the human race. People like you should not be allowed to express their opinions.

Why does this website exhibit only white people as attractive?? Also, beauty is subjective. The owner of this website cannot even write coherent sentences much less offer valid reasons for a simple argument. He is a sad, lonely man who tries to justify his obsession with "feminity" by convincing himself that he is helping women overcome eating disorders.

For your own sakes, I hope the owner of this site and those who agree with it realize how simple-minded you are. Otherwise you will die knowing that your life was a complete waste.

EVERY male and female I have shown this site to (and trust me, it's a lot, it's been in a viral email) have emailed me back LAUGHING. This site is so ridiculous my female friends have stopped being offended and put off by it. The heterosexual men, and both the lesbian and heterosexual females have ALL found your ''masculinized females'' prrettier than the VAST majority of the ones in your ''attractive female'' pages, myself included. No offense to them but most of the women in your ''attractive females'' pages are very plain, and some aren't pretty at all. As I am a professior of human physiology, I showed your scientific facts to a number of my colleagues and they have had a good laugh as well. Nice try mate, but you have no idea of what beauty is at all. You've offended a lot of women in the process, paticularly the ones you use as examples of 'masculine or unnattractive' women, and all you've really accomplished is giving jealous bitches a place to rant on and poke fun of those gorgeous women they hate.
Look at all the beauties in history, many are fit your ''masculinized'' description to the T. Not to mention, your idea of feminine beauty seems only to fit the American 1940's and 50's standard of the beautiful caucasian woman, not taking into account that that is only one country in the world and many of those women were not thought of as beautiful outside their own country or race group.
Nefertiti, the most beautiful woman in all of Egypt, beloved one of the pharoah
Giovanna Baccelli famous ballerina and mistress of George Sackville, 3rd Duke of Dorset, famed for her beauty
Giselle Bunchen, who you trashed, has REPEATEDLY won the title of most beautiful woman in the world, same with Karolina Kurkova and Marissa Miller.
Melisande who you also trashed, has THOUSANDS of fans who post repeated compliments about her beauty on forums, and has never been turned down for a modeling job, and has also been sought out by not only glamour and erotic photographers but by beauty and fashion companies as well because she is considered to be of extreme beauty.
Kate Moss won the title of most beautiful woman in the world, has always had a waif like figure (same as Twiggy who was believed gorgeous and glamorous in the 60's) and aside from when she was caught on camera doing coke years back, has never lost a modeling contract and continues to this day to have an extremely successful career as the main model for many major brands.

In short, probably very few women in the entire world actually fit your idea of the perfect feminine woman. I also highly doubt that the ones that do fit are thought of as beautiful as much as many of the women you've labeled as 'masculine or unnatractive.' Posting pictures and diagrams of skulls and muscles with number and ratios is not to make your reasearch any less ridiculous.

Vincent!!! Je t'aime! Erik decided to use one of the worst photos ever taken of me, put it on this site without my permission, and tell everyone that he thought I was an unnatractive masculinized female with poor facial development. Jeez, that hurt. To say the least. I'm glad you have a much more open view of beauty, like the rest of the world

I need to clarify, I wrote I AM a professor...lol. Whoops. I'm married to a professor, I work at the school in his department. But still. Just get my pictures off your site, it's insulting. And he's pissed. He thinks your argument is ridiculous and stupid, although you do have a few good points, but only a few. Either way, this site has been seen by almost everyone in the science department here, and although a few people do agree that you have a few points, everyone unanimously agrees that your idea of feminine is weak, since you seem to interchange it with the word beauty, and your view on what is beautiful is so ridiculously limited, it basically cuts out around 85% of the world's females as unnattractive or unfeminine. If 85% of the worlds females are unfeminine, does that mean that you t6hink the majority of females aren't well..very female? Silly.

Emily, seriously darling, I have blue-green eyes. And when I have my hair blonde, I look freaky, people don't see me as more attractive, there is no contrast, everything is a similar color, even when my skin is very pale and I have a lovely pink blush on my cheeks. I know loads of people who have fallen in love with dark haired women, my husband being one for example. And he doesn't see my hair as vulgar nor does it make him think of sex, he's extremely romantic and protective towards me, so I see no reason why you should think that men only see blonde women as romantic and vulnerable. That's silly, and it's rascist, give me Monica Bellucci or Kim Kardashian or Angelina Jolie, anyday! Hot hot hot.

I don't think I've ever seen a more absurdly repulsive website in my life. It's not because I'm "envious". I actually do have extremely feminine features.

But that's not why I'm beautiful.

I think the owner of this site one of those people you find on the internet that people are warned about. "There are always creeps on the internet."
I'm going to see what I can do to get this website taken down.

sorry but this site doesnt prove a point for me. In fact it rea-ssures me why I look up to supermodels as beauty icons rather than your average "feminine" woman. if you wanted to prove your point could you have at least found better pictures of the so called pretty girls? lol because pale crack head looking women with rotten teeth and cellulite butts really doesnt prove your point. It only made the beautiful supermodels stand out more. Put it this way masculine/feminine, my eyes went straight to the supermodel pictures before the other girls. the other girls wouldnt even get noticed if a supermodel walked into the room! this site is gross, a big joke.
plastic surgery is done everyday to add more bone structure (aka cheebones implants,chin implants,face liposuction/fat removal) etc...I never hear of "doc please make my face fatter like a big bloated chipmunk" lol

basically this website is saying every ethnic woman is ugly and masculine (LMAO) which just so happens to what me and most of my friends think is more beautiful. they are more exotic and less common looking. you are pretty much saying the common girl (since they often have average unspecial faces) and no beautiful supermodel cheekbones are pretty. you are saying all Italian women are ugly? all Native american pocahontas women are ugly? all latina women are ugly? brazilain women? because last time I checked they are for the most part very chiseled women with beautiful face structure. those races I mentioned also, just so happen to be some of the most frequent races referred to as "most beautiful". Maybe you are from america which has many normal plain jane faced type girls and you just hate any form of exoticness? I find exotic faces far more superior in beauty!

Emily, I've been reading the some of the posts made by you and I do find them a little disconcerting...

I have no problem with you finding white people more attractive that say, asians or blacks- thats cool, cos everyone's got their personal tastes...And your evidence that mixed people find it harder to get donors seemed to be logical. It makes sense..

And I would agree that white people are slowly dying out...because by nature- asian and black genes are much stronger and so if a white and an asian or a white and a black mixed- the child will defo look more asian/black than white.

Thats the case of my family where i certainly look very asian even though my dad is as white as can be.

However, i felt like you were....angry? Or something towards non-whites....the way you expressed your views seemed almost aggressive and anti- non whites...

I hope this isnt the case.

I read one comment where someone else (not you) referred to asians as "Mongoloids". Thats hideously racist and I think ERIC as the administrator of this blog should not allow comments as racist as that.

In regards to this post: No offence man but all you've done is depicted white pictures of white people, painted by white people.

OF COURSE images of love and romance are gonna be represented by blonde haired blue eyed people if they were painting by white people because that was the fashion.

Thats why white people made out that Jesus had blonde hair and blue eyes- doesnt make it true does it now?

In Japan, we paint different pictures- and romantic images are represented by women with dark straight hair and piercing dark eyes holding alluring fans because that WAS the fashion over here.

Its all about the culture.

People keep saying how us asians really badly want to be white. Thats an extremely arrogant statement to make especcially if you are white, surely you can see that. Plastic surgery is big in korea and Japan- but my friends who have done surgery all did it with the aim to get bigger eyes- not white people eyes. Can you imagine an asian person with full on white peoples eyes? It would look well freaky.

We like our asian eyes, we just want them to be a bit bigger. But you cant patent that as a "white" feature and go round saying cos we want bigger eyes we want to be white- Black people have bigger eyes than white people.

And the hair dying thing- where more asians are dying their hair a lighter colour- again, it doesnt mean we want to be white.

I live in England and ALLLL my friends at least once in their lives have dyed their hair a darker shade- I didnt just jump to the conclusion they wanted to be more asian. Lots of white girls straighten their hair cos its was the fashion- again, i didnt think they were trying to become more asian and get that dead straight hair that asians have.

Beyonce and Tyra Banks both dyed their hair blonde- what are you saying? They want to be white? I think they are both proud of their race and proud of their colour. Not white.

And the whole tanning fad- where tanning became popular. We didnt all assume you white people wanted to be asian or black because you all were trying to get that tanned skin.

Its ridiculous, and I'll say it again- ARROGANT to assume that we are so desperate to be white. I can tell you now, we are NOT.

If anything, after a lot of surgery- most asians just end up looking hispanic or indian....If your gonna say we're trying to be another race- it should be one of those. Not white.

I think, at the end of the day we can accept that different people find different races attractive- and usually, people stick to their own. And none of us should have a problem with that, each to their own choice. Live and let live. Some people like blue eyes, some people like dark eyes- i personally like them all :)

But we do NOT need racism just because you happen to not find other races attractive. No-ones forcing you to reproduce with anyone, so everybody CHILL.

Lets just stop all this needless negativity towards other races.

C'mon guys, we SHARE this planet!!- And there are far bigger problems to be getting riled about; like Haiti!

xxx Peace!

"I would argue that racially mixed, good-looking people more often than not own their looks to their white genes. In other words, they look good since they approach the looks of whites. The more they alienate themselves from the looks of whites the less good they look, generally speaking."

I'm white and even I would argue that it's the opposite way around. Generally the most attractive white people are those mixed with another race somewhere along the lines. When you look at white people who are considered attractive, they usually have darker/more olive skin and somewhat slanted eyes - as well as dark thick eyelashes and brows, features that are not white. Their noses are usually small too, whereas white people have naturally long noses.

I'm not reading through all of those comments word for word, but I managed to get the gist of it.

#1. The website didn't offend me at all. It's simply a comparison of the feminine traits of real women to the masculine traits of the models that the fashion designers pick. The point that I got was that most attractive women have curves and look "softer". Most fashion models have more pronounced features and less curves. That's not for all women, or all models, but it is a general trend.

#2. The guy who made this website has a thing for white chicks with about C-D cup breasts and pronounced butts. JUST LIKE MOST WHITE MEN. Most doesn't mean all.

#3. About 90% of the commenters seem to be white. Which leaves the people like me, who are not white, out of the loop. You all are having an argument about whether blue eyes or dark eyes are sexy. How about this tidbit? When women become aroused, their pupils enlarge. Color of the eyes doesn't matter as much as pupil size.

I'm not sure how to add images, but compare these two images(already used before)
A ) http://s362.photobucket.com/albums/oo62/picturesofswedes/?action=view&current=swed684.jpg

B ) http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu59/mogs_album/browneyes-1.jpg

The girl in A has bigger pupils and looks more attractive. The retouched photo of Kunis has pupils that are obscured by a glare and are therefore smaller and less noticable. Which is more attractive?

More evidence:

http://sapientology.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Dilated-Vs-Contracted-Pupils.jpg

So if a woman has large pupils, she's going to be more attractive regardless of eye color. The only difference is that women who have dark eyes look like they have bigger pupils anyway.

#4. Animals will seek out mates that have a higher genetic diversity. So mixed children should be more attractive.

BUT ABOVE ALL

#5. Men like women of all shapes and sizes, of all races and ethnicities, of all socio-economic backgrounds and education levels. They just love women. And there is something sexy about each of us regardless of whether we fit the ideal.

because perpetuating stereotypes is fun AND healthy!
look I can play with photoshop! I am fulfilling my dreams and making a meaningful impact on society! this is a big deal and I am changing the way people think for the better!

This site is likely to be created and sustained by a bunch of escapist Stormfront enthusiasts, I presume. Oh well.

Regarding the whole fashion model nitpicking thing, etc: some people don't seem to understand the very concept of artistic value, it seems. Judging from what I've learned from this website, beauty is to be defined by whether one can jerk off to it or not.

I would simply like to remind that excessive, saccharine femininity is not always acceptable in fashion industry. It simply won't do when you intend to express originality, innovation, edginess, class.

Again, not every concept that somehow involves or targets women is supposed to feature the cheesy and bland "femininity" cultivated on this website. Yet I have some good news -- the porn industry always shines bright with it.

Have a nice day, everyone.

Creator.

This site is promoting one of two extremes in female "beauty". If it really wanted to promote self esteem it should have remained neutral. It seems like the creator of this site is a porn enthusiast who likes the idea of women as sexual objects. I hope you choke to death on your sexual urges. Think of how many suicidal girls check this site out and think even worse of themselves afterward?
This site should be removed from the internet. It should never have been created.

I WONDER HOW MANY GIRLS HAVE COMMITTED SUICIDE BECAUSE THEY AREN'T FEMININE LOOKING ENOUGH.
PROBABLY MORE OR COMPARABLE TO THE NUMBER THAT HAVE COMMITTED SUICIDE BECAUSE THEY AREN'T SKINNY ENOUGH.

Alyssa C.: Your criticism is off the point. This website is not about promoting self-esteem, which is clear in the article you have commented on. This site does not intend to affect women’s self-esteem, but it is contributing to the self-esteem problems of some women. My belief, and justification for the negatives of this site, is that the overall good outweighs the overall bad.

Regarding being a porn enthusiast, what red-blooded man does not prefer the attractive nude female form? Describing the latter as seeing women as sexual objects is a poor choice of words. The nude form is also a requirement to illustrate many of the arguments of this site and in some cases the choice of a nude model is justified by the dearth of equivalent mainstream models.

Women driven to suicidal ideation or suicide after coming across this site had to have been mentally disturbed to start with, which is not my fault. Again, my apologies to those affected in this manner and I will reiterate that more positive than negative will result from this site. Unless one is willing to live like a hermit, it is difficult to avoid negative consequences of what one believes one should do. For instance, if I compete with others for a job and get it, someone else would have lost this job because of me and it is possible for this person to attempt suicide because she really needed the job and now the last option she had was dashed. So should I not seek a job in the first place? I am not a hermit and will seek the job hoping that my competitors understand that in doing so I am not displaying malice toward them.

Alyssa: You said you wonder how many people have committed suicide for not having the ideal looks.

Funny thing is that SWEDEN has the highest suicide rate in the world. Emily keeps promoting the Swedish beauty however why are they all committing suicide?

Once she can answer that her 'culture' is emotionally incapable of accepting themselves then she will come to realize that the ones that benefit from mixing are whites not non-whites. After all what good is to have Nordic features if you are dead.

Are you guys still posting about race mixing, beauty and all that? I guess you guys are too ignorant to have figure it out by now. HUMANS ARE BIGOTED.

Take the Chinese and Japonese, while an outsider may not be able to distinguish neither group, one group (the Japonese) consider themselves superior than the other.

So while Emily is wasting her time here trying to defend Swedes as being superior and advocating racism and anti-miscegenation, the truth of the matter is that no matter if everyone on Earth would be blonde hair blue eyes, she will still be posting perhaps about hair lenght and how one hair that is 18 inches is far more beautiful than that which is 16 inches.

Emily is the epitome of tribal mentality. While she considers herself superior, the only thing she is demonstrating is how inferior her knowledge of human psychology and biology is, especially natural selection and evolution. To halt miscegenation is to halt natural selection.

Natural selection works on improving the survival of the species not not whether or not Emily and her other klan members consider the selection beautiful or not. Beauty is indeed on the eye of the beholder. Otherwise we would all like the same people, the same car, the same paintings, the same things.

One can state that beauty is mathematical however abstract art, impressionism and other forms of non symetrical patterns have proved that wrong. There is beauty wherever one wants to find it.

This is the last post I make on this site as I am just appalled by human ignorance, vanity, bigotry, and false sense of superiority (aka Narcissicim, which by the way is a mental disease)some posters here portray. The only absolute truth there is, is that nothing is absolute, and that includes beauty. And with this I will leave you with a fundamental truth of our humanity:

"I'd like to share a revelation I had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we are the cure." Agent Smith, The Matrix

"Funny thing is that SWEDEN has the highest suicide rate in the world. Emily keeps promoting the Swedish beauty however why are they all committing suicide?"

Sweden ins no. 28 in the world. Japan and South Korea...and Eastern Europeans are much higher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

I don't think 'race-mixing' is the solution to reducing suicide...

The fact that the majority of the top countries are European (and Caucasian) suggests an existential crisis in the West in my opinion.

This site is absolutely disgusting. It's barely concealing it's homophobic, sexist and racist intentions and consistently slips up.

Heterosexual men do not need any more say in what women wear or how they are portrayed in the media. If it wasn't women losing weight to look skinnier, it would be women wearing corsets to look more feminine and damaging themselves in other ways. Oh wait, that already happened.

Women aren't there to be drooled over by men, whether they're masculine or feminine (according to whatever definitions you've decided to adopt). Men aren't there to be drooled over by women, so there's plenty of room for men of all races, shapes and sizes in the media.

The 'attractive women' section is creepy in the extreme. It looks as if you've gathered them from cheap porn sites. There's a striking lack of variety.

What we should be promoting in the media is diversity (all types of women, including the 'masculine' ones that you seem to think that no one finds sexy), so that no one feels like they should fit to somebody's extreme and rigid definition's of beauty. Promoting one particular and badly defined archetype is worse than doing nothing and you should be ashamed of yourself.

And for the record, I'm a scientist, and funnily enough - we all find different things attractive - and what we find attractive changes according to our cultural influences.

Some people find children and animals sexually exciting, but that doesn't mean we need more of that in the media! The media isn't there to panda to anyone's sexual expectations, and it would do better, as I've already mentioned to show a variety of healthy men and women who haven't felt the needs to modify themselves with surgery to make them appear sexier to the opposite sex - and preferably, if they're promoting music or clothes (or something other than their bodies), not naked.

I repeat, this site is vile, and what you should really promote is a variety of models of all types (including BUT NOT LIMITED TO) feminine women. That might be something that was actually beneficial to women, you self-obsessed moron.

Erik, has anyone ever told you that you give off a strong serial killer vibe?

Katie,

Heterosexual men have little, if anything, to say about what women wear...they don't run the fashion industry. Gay men do.

That's the point. that, and the dangerously thin female models that are selected by the gay fashion designers because they look like adolescent boys...which is one of the causes for girls various eating disorders/insecurities. It isn't caused by heterosexual men...who invariably prefer healthy women (naturally).

well you knew this would happen. i do sympathize with this lady though. but let's look at it another way. if a guy would complain about women let's say, immediately he would be hit with "you're just mad because you don't get girls" or "you're negative" or "maybe there is something wrong with you" or "you're just saying that cuz you don't get any" and a whole host of others. that's why very few men complain. yet women complain and get emotional almost immediately and expect and do get sympathy. interesting.

no of course there isn't. that's why you brought it up. first malign someone with 'homosexual' and then be sure and claim you don't have a problem with it. that way you can be a douche and PC at the same time. how daring!

oh you say they are masculine, oh then you are anti-nordic! it's racist i tell ya, racist!

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