You are here

Is it possible to objectively compare the attractiveness of women from different populations?

An important issue regarding the standard of women participating in international beauty pageants is whether it is possible to compare the attractiveness of women from different geographic populations using objective criteria that are sufficiently exacting for the purposes of a high profile beauty pageant. If this is possible, then these criteria should be used to ensure that the participants are among the best looking women, but if this is not possible, then some alternatives to the way these pageants are run should be considered in order to promote high aesthetic standards -- e.g., having a series of ethnicity-specific mini-pageants that culminate in a Miss Personality grand finale. A new section on aesthetics in international beauty pageants explores this issue, and in the process, also addresses several abstract correlates of beauty. Comments regarding this section can be left below. Commentators should make an effort to read the section rather than just look at the pictures prior to commenting.



You might want to make the side bar link for this more noticeable. It should have bigger text and the same light blue-grey background as the other side bar links.

Right now it just looks like small text over a big advertisment. It's easy to miss. I had no idea it was such a big site section untill i took a more careful look at this blog entry.

Thank you for your suggestion. I am not sure whether I want this section to be a prominent part of this site, but I will see what I can do to distinguish it from the advertisements.

I've greatly enjoyed reading this site, and found it very informative. Personally, I find this section the most interesting.

You've dug up some fascinating studies and images, and I agree with the commentator above, that the link here should be emphasised more, since I believe many others will also find this of interest.

Incidentally, on this page, Fig. 6d does not display properly:

Anyway, keep up the good work, and I look forward to seeing more in the future, John.

John: Sorry about Fig 6d; it was never uploaded, but it shows now. I put the link to this section within the main navigation column now that several people have requested that I do so.

where did u get the pics of black women from--most black women's bodies are not shaped liek that.. i can't believe you would post anthopological study pics(which only focus on these obscure women in teh 'bush'). get some pics of normal women in nigeria, living/working in lagos... what about womenin north africa, east africa, adn for that matter u knocked out much o f west. i am black.... quite frankly i am insulted you piclked a bunch of overweight women to show what black women look like vs. other ethnic groups, while getting glamorized photos of especially white women... i would love for you to compare the avergate body of a british women with other ethicities---if you wnat to get rugged. secondly many black women are not all afircan---where is the depiction of them... alek wek isn;t even the norm for africa. her features are very very drastic ompared to most. her body type is common to only small populations of people----her tribe si not the african norm. most african women are shaped sorta liek white women, jsut about ten pounds heavier at the same height(that is what i read in a legitimte study--if u want some info, jsut let me know)also , they tend to have larger breastsa nd hips for that same body size and slightly mroe muscle mass for the same weight. teh average british woman9which is where most caucasioan women in the US can consider their ancestors) have smaller breasts, thicker waists, and falt, wider hips. the "square" si the new term abuzz in the garment industry because it applies to teh majoriy tof white women in america---- less waist defnition, balanced hips/shoulders/chest. do ur research foirst on hwat real women look like. before posting opffensive comparisons please. i don't mena to be harsh... but i seriously think it must have a subconciosu effort on one person on the staff--who perjhaps thinks black women are unnatractive to post hideous pics of them---whiel glamorizing the other ethnic groups---as we are all human---races don't truly exist---scientifically it has been proven its in outr heads.... please email me back.. i would love to corrrespond with you on this issue. sorry fo rthe misspellings... i am in a rush.

Kristin: The great majority of the sub-Saharan African women shown are not overweight, and none of the comparisons are about percentage body fat. Most of the women featured in your links have part non-sub-Saharan African ancestry, which appears to be the majority component in Christina Milian. How are these women, except for Miss Trinidad and Tobago, representative of sub-Saharan Africans?

Alek Wek has a face that is an excellent example of a sub-Saharan African face except for a forehead that is rounder than average in side view and her jaws, which do not protrude as much as in her more feminine counterparts.

The sub-Saharan African element in North Africa is minor, and the sub-Saharan African stock in the Americas and especially in East Africa is admixed with non-sub-Saharan African elements. Therefore, since the purpose of the section is to examine whether women from different ethnic groups can be objectively compared aesthetically, rather than to depict pictures capturing the diversity around the world, this question is best answered by focusing on the outliers: Northern Europeans, Northeast Asians, Australian aborigines and sub-Saharan Africans. This is the reason why humans in between the outliers are not extensively addressed in the pictures.

The section features pictures of unattractive white women and also glamour photography of women with predominant sub-Saharan African ancestry. Sub-Saharan African women tend to have thicker waists than European women, not the other way around as you have implied, and there are plenty of inter-group differences in physical appearance that make it impossible to objectively compare the attractiveness of Sub-Saharan African women with that of European women, which is the message that you need to get.

Kristin: Nobody is arguing that all sub-Saharan Africans look alike; all such women in this section look different. I don’t see what is the big deal with Alek Wek. She is shown in very few places and not one of the places where she has been shown is supposed to depict a typical sub-Saharan African, which would be difficult to come up with given the diversity in sub-Saharan Africa. If you go through the entire section, you will encounter several pictures of women with predominant sub-Saharan African ancestry that are sourced from glamour photography. In some cases it was necessary to obtain pictures of !kung, KhoiKhoi or Congolese women, but I did not encounter glamour photography involving them, and went along with pictures sourced from anthropological resources.

Congratulations to your fantastic and unique site, Mr. Holland !As a biologist doing a lot of research in this field I would just like to add that mankind can be divided into ca. 36 human races. E.g. in Africa, there are the Sudanid, Kafrid, Nilotid , Ethiopid ,Khoiid, Sanid and Bambutid races. Khoiids, Sanids ,Bambutids and Sudanids are rarely seen in the media, but many US mulattoes show Kafrid , Nilotid and Ethiopid resemblance. If we now compare the feminization of Mongolids , Europids and Negrids , we should compare only the most typical, extreme races concerning feminity-masculinity ,i.e. the Nesids (Malakka,Philippines, Indonesia), the Nordids (Northern Europe) and the Sudanids (Western Africa) ( cf. Prof. Rainer Knußmann's world's leading anthropological manual "Lehrbuch der vergleichenden Biologie und Humangenetik", Gustav-Fischer-Verlag, 2.rev.ed. 1996, being the only one of its kind at the moment and probably the last due to the science-destroying "political correctness"). Then ,in strong contrast (!)to Jean Philippe Rushton and his followers, we will see that Sudanid women are more feminine on average than Nordid ones. There are only some Sudanid women's traits that are more masculine (jaws, skull, statistically more athleticism), but in general they are more feminine (statistically smaller height, more cyclothymous character (gestures e.g.,cf. Prof. John Randal Baker, Race, Oxford University Press,1974) , rounder noses and faces and a tendency to much more bigger breasts and behinds than in Nordid women).So, Joseph Arthur Comte de Gobineau was right in this very point stating the higher feminity of Negrids compared with the Europids (taking into account the smaller sexual dimorphism of Negrids compared to Europids, more feminine races have a smaller sexual dimorphism in general, cf. Knußamnn).In the history of anthropology Gobineau was the first important scholar to see the Negrids as more feminine than the Europids. But if look at the Sanid bushwomen of the Kalahari which are not seen as part of the Negrid races by many authorities, then they would be much more feminine and paedomorphous (paedomorphosis being the basis of feminity, cf. Knußmann) than women from a n y Negrid or Europid race on average.Finally ,the Nesid women (Mallakka, Phillipines, Indonesia) have the highest degree of feminity of a l l 36 human races on average (cf. Knußmann).

I hereby declare my total support of your ideas, Mr. Holland.

Unfortunately , there is a lot of hostilities towards you and people like you in other forums where you try to discuss this topic seriously with feminist viragos and the leftist mob.

d’Artagnan: There are some problems with your comment, specifically related to the conceptualization of femininity. If one assumes that the more protruding backside of sub-Saharan African women is indicative of greater femininity, then how does one explain their thicker waists and narrower pelves compared to European women? Similarly, a shorter-height or smaller-nosed population cannot be designated as more feminine unless it is shown that the reduced height or smaller nose, respectively, is due to greater feminization. There are also masculinized women with large breasts, i.e., one has to take serum levels of both androgens and estrogens into account. The androgens-to-estrogens ratio is more feminine in European women compared to sub-Saharan African and East Asian women. Europeans also have, on average, more CAG repeats in the androgen receptor gene compared to sub-Saharan Africans, i.e., a given amount of testosterone or dihydrotestosterone exerts a more powerful effect in sub-Saharan Africans, on average.

Regarding the allegedly more pedomorphic face and thereby greater femininity of East Asians, the mid-facial flattening of East Asian faces, and also several sub-Saharan African populations such as the Khoi-San people, is similar to that of anatomically modern humans in the late Pleistocene, and if one assumes that this flattening reflects differential retention of an ancestral feature, then it cannot be called pedomorphic, especially since it has been shown that neoteny applies to human craniofacial size but not craniofacial shape. It is true that the faces of women are closer to those of children, but it has not been shown that the mid-facial flattening of East Asians is a consequence of greater feminization. You also have to consider that close approximations of an hourglass figure are most extensively found in Europe.

As Knußmann outlines in his manual, all 36 human are on a continuum between strongly masculine and strongly feminine on average. Consequently ,most of the races do not represent an extreme masculinity or femininity.In your reply you emphasized the masculine traits of sub-Saharan women correctly.If we take Serena Willimas e.g., being a Kafrid mulatto, we can see both those masculine and feminine traits, and your, mine and Knußmann's statements fit together well.Your website just deals implicitly with this spectrum and its manifold nuances.
Then you said that there is no immediate connection between a shorter height and feminization. Yet you you seem to have adopted the Hartmann-Bolk-Weiniger-Knußmann concept of feminity just as I do in general as paedomorphosis, stated by you e.g. concerning some cranial features on your website.In this concept smaller height can be classified as more feminine-paedomorphous.But maybe you just wanted to point at the undeniable fact that some traits cannot be clasified as msculine or feminine/paedomorphous traits exactly as they are not clearly attributed to men or women.Interestingly, the races containing the women with the biggest breasts and behinds are the relatively most masculine in general, except these very traits (Sudanids, Kafrids,Alpinids, Arabids e.g. in comparison to the small-breasted Asian Nesid women).And this is the only big exception to the rule where we have to distinguish feminity and paedomorphosis. -- Just as I wrote before , evolution created some masculine and feminine traits in both sexes of e.g.the Negrids because of social and environmental adaptions. Athleticism developped (or stayed)due to a specializing in physical fighting, whereas this was not so important for the Eurasian hunters in general.In contrast to that, big female breasts and behinds in Negrid women are due to their r-strategy in general .And you will find many Sudanid and Kafrid men with big behinds as that trait is not restricted to women and the hormonal masculinity is not restricted to men. Your remarks on the hormones are correct.And your mentioning the preponderance of the hour-glass figure in Europeans shows that the waist-to-hip ratio is one very feminine trait of the European women in general. But I would like to remark two differentiations at this point. First, as Knußmann
and there is a racial beauty scheme,an old ,but well-established concept in physical anthropology, i.e. an innate scheme making members of a special race especially attractive to members of the same race. This scheme has again one big exception:the feminine-masculine continuum . So , there is a study on the net , where it is shown that Europids rate Asians and especially Asian women more attractive than their racial fellows.
This is what Ashley Montagu named the "delicacy" of the Mongolid women's beauty which basically can appeal to members of all other 35 races and can become much stronger than the racial scheme.
You correctly point at snigle traits and exception from the rules. I acknowledge very much in you that you have a strong wish to differentiate , in contrast to Jean Philippe Rushton who over-simplifies these matters too much and finally gets it wrong.In the end , after the long path of differentiation, detailed anylsis and conceptualizing, we can come to general conclusions that may have many exception , but are strong tendencies. So, you are totally right to point at the exceptions from the paedomorphosis of the Sanids.I think we basically have a very similar views and intentions. I hope that we stay in contact on this blog and I look forward to your reply. Thank you very much, Mr. Holland. d'Artagnan

d’Artagnan: When I talk about masculinity-femininity, I am primarily talking about sexual dimorphism as shaped by sex hormones. As you have pointed out, it is not just sub-Saharan African women that have more protruding backsides, but their male counterparts do, too, compared to Europeans. As a first approximation, this greater protrusion is related to genetic differences unrelated to sex hormones rather than differences in sex hormone profiles, and this would be easily confirmed by an evaluation of sex hormone profiles, though this would not be necessary since a combination of narrower pelves and posteriorly more protrusive buttocks will not be resulting from greater feminization. It is for this reason that this anatomical difference between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans cannot be assigned to the greater or lesser femininity of one group.

Your reference to the development of athleticism in sub-Saharan Africans, presumably in response to the need for physical fighting, as opposed to Eurasians, is curious. The majority of Olympic medals are won by people of European ancestry. White men also dominate weight lifting, martial arts and various fighting championships. In heavyweight boxing, all four titles are currently held by white men. The minority of sporting events dominated by people of predominantly sub-Saharan African ancestry do not justify assigning an “athletic character” to them.

I am interested in the study showing white men rating Asian women as more attractive than white women. This is highly unlikely.

Hello, Mr. Holland. shows that European men rate Eurasian women (Mongolid-Europid)as more attractive than Europid ones on average.
presents pure Mongolid women as more feminine and attractive.The r-strategist-athleticism connection is from Jean Philippe Rushton (see wikipedia article on him). And the German biologist Max Hartmann proved that strong feminine attracts strong masculine and weak masculine (androgynous) attracts weak feminine (virago).Prof. Rainer Knußmann, former president of the German Scientific Society (Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft, t h e first-class scientific institution in Germany) and JFK murder investigator in his "Lehrbuch der vergleichenden Biologie und Humangenetik"confirmed Hartmann (1921) and the racial feminity of the Nesids and the racial masculinity of the Nordids in his world-famous manual in 1996(!)."relative+sexuality"+plants&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5
These universal laws (with some exceptions as usual)first occurred in algae 1 billion years ago (!)You and I are even even today kind of pioneers in the tradition of Stratz's "Die Rassenschönheit des Weibes" of around 1900. Could you please have a look at it, it's wonderful.
Stratz had a faible for Charlize Theron-like women,too.I am looking forward to your reply, Mr. Holland and hope for a further entente cordiale. d'Artagnan

d'Artagnan: You were going to site a study where Asian women were rated as more attractive than white women by white men, but the study that you cited reported that Eurasians, not Asians, were rated as more attractive by white men. Anyway, this study by Rhodes et al. (2005) is deeply flawed.

It only addresses the front of the face. Take a look at what these authors consider to be an attractive white woman.

attractive white woman?

Should it be surprising if a Eurasian woman is rated better looking than the “attractive” white woman shown above? If the authors had selected attractive white women (e.g., the women featured in the attractive women section of this site) and compared them to attractive Asian and Eurasian women, there is no way white men would be rating the Asian or Eurasian women as better looking.

The Eurasian composites made by the authors should have averaged both size and shape, but this has not been done. In addition, mixing of populations with skull shapes as strikingly different as Europeans vs. East Asians does not average facial features; see page 6 of this section. Therefore, the averaging assumption of the authors is flawed.

If physical anthropology journals accepted attractiveness research, this study would have been unanimously rejected, but the study was carried out by psychologists and approved for publication in a psychology journal by equally clueless reviewers.

The other link you cite is to an Asian site that purports to portray Asian women as being more likely to have features considered to be attractive. This site offers the beauty mask by Stephen Marquardt, which is not valid, as a valid example of attractive facial proportions, but does not appear to realize that European women better fit this mask. It talks about neoteny/pedomorphy as a correlate of beauty, and mentions the allegedly more pedomorphic faces of Asian women, but it has been shown that neoteny does not apply to human face shape, as discussed at length within this section, and as I have already commented, the mid-facial flatness of East Asians has the appearance of anatomically modern humans in the late Pleistocene and is not pedomorphic.

The Asian site mostly ignores features that several East Asians do not like among themselves: the extent of facial flatness, the large cheekbones and epicanthal folds.

The Asian site also compares Asian women to the masculine Jennifer Aniston, whose nose doesn’t look good even after a nose job, the less masculine but still not feminine Gwyneth Paltrow and Kate Hudson, and the unimpressive Reese Witherspoon.

I could say more, but if you have really bought into the paper by Rhodes et al. (2005) and the Asian site, then I am surprised.

Rushton is a psychologist, and is not the best source for information on anatomy and physiological capacities. Once again, individuals of predominant sub-Saharan African ancestry dominate too few sports for one to justify assigning an athletic character to them.

I do not know what you are trying to convey by mentioning Stratz and Charlize Theron. It is only the face of Charlize Theron in her twenties, not her body, that looked really good.

I just wanted to point out that Nesid women's facial femininity makes them generally the most feminine on average compared to women from the other 35 human races.
This view has been commonplace since the 19th century for thousands of authors (e.g. v.Eickstedt(the doyen of anthropology), Knußmann, Ashley Montagu, Rushton) until the Boasian subversion where "certain " people played a crucial part in?Are these cute girlish Filipina women with their "delicate" neotenous Nesid beauty not the most feminine ? Are they not t h e synonym for femininity on average ?
Does not the feminist terror in the West requires racial viragos essentially like Abzug, Schwarzer and Sontag with a higher occurence among Europids ? Can Nesid women ever be polluted by this in spite of their exceptional femininity?

d'Artagnan: I do not know why you say that East Asian women have the most feminine-looking faces. Compared to European women, East Asian women have less prominent noses, but also lager jaws; thicker lips, but also larger faces; flatter mid-faces but also smaller eyes; and wider faces but also more powerfully built cheekbones. East Asian women also have less feminine physiques compared to European women. So what makes East Asian women the synonym of femininity, on average?

You bring feminism into the picture, but philosophical beliefs and behavior are not relevant to this site. East Asian cultures are generally male dominated and also do not come close to the literary output of Western cultures. These are some reasons why radical feminism hasn’t taken root in East Asia like it has in the West. During the Middle Ages, when the Church was very powerful, radical feminist-types weren’t in the limelight, though they undoubtedly existed. Radical feminist-types surely exist in East Asia, though they probably constitute a smaller proportion of the population than in the West.

There is evidence for stronger sexual selection among Northern Europeans compared to other populations. One pays a price for sexual selection, namely sexually antagonistic selection, whereby genes that benefit males harm females and vice versa. Therefore, between Northern European and East Asian women, if one had to look for the most masculine-looking or most feminine-looking women, in both cases one would seek them among Northern Europeans. In other words, you are looking at greater variability among Northern Europeans with respect to masculinity-femininity.

Hello Mr. Holland,
please check again women of the Nesid race as they are the most Mongolid concerning paedomorphosis.
Pictures like that sbear clear evidence that these women are much more facially feminine than any Nordid woman. Of course we shall not compare Nordids to women from the Tungid and Eskimid race who have some masculine facial features as the mid-facial masculinity you mentioned. So can you show me one Europid woman (so age not less than ca. 18 years)from your site or elsewhere which you rated as attractive which is more feminine than my Nesid example ? The previous photo shows the racial features and the racial "softness" of the Nesids quite exactly according to statements and pictures by the highest authorities of anthropology (Prof. Dr. Freiherr v. Eickstedt, Prof. Dr. Rainer Knußmann).
The final question concerning is why enlightenment did not take place in Asia. It is due to the more feminine races living there.And if we compare e.g. the Nesid (women) to the Nordid (women) concerning intelligence, it seems that according to Lynn et al. the Nesid countries score significantly lower than Northern Europe making an enlightenment less probable (see also John Randal Baker and Jean Philippe Rushton).-There seems no evidence for stronger sexual selection in Europeans, the only sure sexual selection in humans is found in the Sanid bushmen whose sexual selection created the steatopygy and extreme labia in the Sanid women.In contrast to that the Europid races (from India to Germania) had, as the most extreme K-strategists, less children , but a higher culture than the Negrid and Mongolid races (the autochthonous Egyptian civilization was created by Europid Aethiopids quite differing from typical Sudanid Negrids from Western Africa,see John Randal Baker).As a consequence of the K-strategy, Europeans lost some Negrid masculine features as the high occurence of athleticism.You point at the high variation in Europids. This is right concerning many anthropmetrical traits like the colour of the hair , skin, body length etc. and a bigger gap between
the most feminine and the most masculine Nordid women. But please note if you compare the Nesid women with the Nordid women, you will not find a Nordid woman who is more feminine than in my picture above as the racial average is much more feminine in the Nesids and even the Nordid feminine extremes are even beyond that average (!) .It is technically impossible , because e.g. the small round Nesid "baby" nose and the extreme (!) skull and skeleton gracility (maybe the woman is about 145 cm tall)can not be found in Nordids because if yes they would not be Nordids any more. So I would suggest you show me one more feminine Nordid woman and we go on disccussing this very interesting matter. I am looking forward to your reply.Thank you very much , Mr. Holland. d'Artagnan

Erik: Large eyes - Large eye to head size ratio is a major part of both attractiveness and feminity. Do you agree?

My concept of paedomorphosis/femininity is that of the mainstream concept of the wolrd-famous Martin-Saller manual ,Max Hartmann, Freiherr v. Eickstedt and Rainer Knußmann and John Randal Baker. Femininity means paedomorphosis (with the exception of the buttocks and breasts). They have been the highest capacities in anthropology despite leftist attacks, my experiences and work confirm their view and this view has been intuitive as it was even included long before 1910 in a number of non-anthropological works as the Meyers Konversationslexikon.Your choosing a Mediterranoid Europid woman (meaning having strong resemblance with the Mediterranids) which is more masculine than a Nesid , but softer than a Nordid, shows that you took implicitly a woman from a more feminine race than the Nordids.But the Nordids are the most typical Europids (see e.g.Knußmann)and should only be included here. Knußmann and the others state numerously that the Mediterranid race is significantly more feminine than the Nordid, but as Europid still harder than the Nesid. So could you please show me a Nordid as I suggested before with the Nordid-typical hardness as shown in the world-famous and unique Rassengeschichte der Menschheit (Racial history of mankind,Ilse Schwidetzky), where only viragos are depicted concerning Nordids and Osteuropids as the racial average (!). So your woman on the photo is more masculine than the Nesid (e.g. less childlike nose ). The morphognostic overall impression is of greater masculinity. Her seductive and passionate look cannot mask this.Her facial expression is more feminine, but we are dealing with the "hardware" here only. -- As Charles Darwin and Baker wrote, the labia and the buttocks of the Sanid women are certainly only a product of sexual selection and not of natural selection, where as depigmentation in Nordids and polar-near populations has a strong basis in natural selection (melanin).Thank you very much, Mr. Holland. I am looking forward to your reply. d'Artagnan

d'Artagnan: It is time to end this discussion for a number of reasons, especially the fact that it is irrelevant to the issue being considered, which is whether it is possible to objectively compare the attractiveness of women from different geographic populations.

I showed a white woman and asked you what is masculine about her face. The only masculine feature that you have identified is her more prominent nose compared to the Bali woman, whereas this greater prominence has nothing to do with masculinization; it is an ethnic difference. The flattest nasal bones are found among sub-Saharan African women. Should this not make them the most pedomorphic by your reasoning? And no, the brunette is not a Mediterranean type; she is a Northern European type. The majority of Northern European adults are not blond.

Masculine and feminine women are found in all ethnic groups. I have featured plenty of feminine Northern European women within this site, 18 or older. A few examples: 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 2, 3a, 3b, 4a, 4b, 5, 6a, 6b, 7a, 7b. What is masculine about these women compared to East Asian women? Haven’t you gone through this site properly enough? Why do I have to point out what you should have already observed?

You have described the flatter noses of East Asian women as more pedomorphic compared to European women, but if pedomorphy is responsible for their flatter noses, then how come East Asian women have larger faces and larger jaws? What is more child-like/pedomorphic about larger faces and larger jaws? Why do you keep ignoring the latter? You have yet to cite evidence that the mid-facial flatness of East Asians has anything to do with selection for pedomorphy.

You have described femininity as pedomorphosis except for the buttocks and breasts. This is supposed to be a mainstream concept? Femininity should be considered in the context of sexual selection. One expects the central tendency among heterosexual men to most strongly prefer women with an optimal combination of fertility and fecundity, i.e., young adult [sexually mature] women (women in their 20s), not women with child-like/pedomorphic characteristics. It is true that the skeletons of men deviate more from the skeletons of children by virtue of being larger, more masculine and more robust than those of women, but it clear that the process of sexual maturity makes both men and women deviate from the physique of children, i.e., make both men and women less pedomorphic; the deviation is just greater for men. The latter does not mean that femininity means pedomorphosis.

What kind of feminization process would make a woman more child-like on some counts and less child-like on others such as breast size, backside prominence or hip widening? Why have you repeatedly ignored the less feminine appearance of the physiques of East Asian women, on average?

I have clearly pointed out within this site that sex hormones are only partly responsible for trait variation, and placing women on the masculine-feminine scale requires an evaluation of overall appearance. Why do you not take the overall appearance into account?

To back up your argument that the larger labia and buttocks of Khoi-San women is predominantly a result of sexual selection, you need to cite evidence, not the statement of authorities like Darwin and Baker. What evidence is there? Why have you not addressed my concern about the low likelihood of men selecting female partners based on labial size? Why have you not argued against the alternative hypothesis of the protruding buttocks being a response to selection pressures favoring fat storage in a place that does not undermine health or interfere with walking?

When I cited evidence for stronger sexual selection among Northern Europeans, I did not mention skin color; I mentioned hair and eye color diversity; I cited a paper full of evidence; I cited the rapidly accumulated diversity at the MC1R locus among Northern Europeans. Why have you ignored this?

Do you see why it is not possible to continue this discussion? This space is for comments pertaining to the beauty question mentioned at the very beginning of this section of the site. If you are not going to address this, then it is pointless for you to comment here.

Hello Mr. Holland. Please could you acknowledge that I referred to all your arguments. Your Europid woman can be classified as Mediterranoid , she is no Mediterranid. As there are autothonous Mediterranoids from Northern Europe (Wales . Ireland) , I wonder why you still resist the racial classification and you use a geographical.If you see the Knußmann chart on paedomorphosis in his manual you will see as it that a small concave nose is paedomorphic independently from race. And here we are at the core of the problem. Nearly all features of the skeleton, the face and the skull can be classified as feminine or masculine. If I would list 20 further feminine features as listed in Eickstedt and Knußamnn and applying to her , too, one could always say it is an "ethnic " difference.But as Knußmann and the others state, a l l 36 race can be classified concerning femininity and masculinity irrespective of race. The term "ethnic"seems not appropriate as we are dealing with "race" .All of the mentioned leading capacities in physical anthropology would deny your argumentation. Thank you very much, Mr. Holland. I am looking forward to your reply. d'Artagnan

The core of the problem is here,too:
"then how come East Asian women have larger faces and larger jaws "--
Your statement shows two problems, the Nesid women have n o t larger faces and larger jaws than the Nordid women on average.And what do you mean by "East Asian" as the Negritid Aeta from East Asia are a Negroid race e.g. ? You are absolutely right that Eskimids are one of the most masculine races , but the Nesids are t h e most feminine in spite of being Mongolid according to thousands of anthropological monographs.Thank you very much, Mr. Holland.You avoided so much to use the crucial word "Nesid", but unless we use it we cannot come to terms.

If one studies your gallery of attractive women which you recommend to the viewers (i.e. as sexual partners etc.), one notes that northern and eastern European types are predominant, not the more feminine southern European ones or Asians (if one believes 150 years of research,thousands of monographs and the intuitive stereotype ). One could conclude that your site is about the idolization of the so-called Nordish races. One could conclude that attributing great femininity to their women was a a posteriori rationale to justify their idolization.To make it more credulous , the racial average hardness had to be dimmed down significantly (cf. Rassengeschichte der Menschheit, where the real types are presented).So our virago media culture is
stunningly presenting Nordish women in positive
light d u e to real characteristics, not fictitious ones. As a a consequnece , there are only two possibilities: either you, Mr. Holland , have a kind of racial fetish and cannot reflect it due to the "magic" power it has over its followers("all science starts with a guts feeling", Kevin MacDonald), or you are not able to get the essence of it all confused by the overwhelming amount of details you studied.All the four anthropology professors I showed this thread have aggreed with me on this.Despite the formal sophistication and uniqueness of your site it contains not only the major "Asian races" error , but numerous other falsehoods."Eastern Asians" is a "gum" definition , which can mean virtually anything, Japanese Europid Ainuids, Thai Negroid Negritids or Mongolid Palaungid Laotioans).We hope that you will not become a victim of the Tolstoy syndrome making you unable for all times to change your mind as we have no animosities against you and only wanted to help you.We wish you all the best for the future. Good bye d'Artagnan

d'Artagnan: I am unable to acknowledge that you have addressed all my arguments; as anyone can see, in your three comments following my previous comment, you have once again ignored many things that I pointed out. The brunette white woman in question cannot be classified as Mediterranoid; look at her skin and facial features. There are plenty of brunette Nordics that are no less Nordic than blond Nordics. Indigenous brunettes in Britain are not autochthonous Mediterranoids, as genetic and craniofacial analyses will show that they do not cluster with southern Europeans.

You seem to have a problem with my using Southeast Asian instead of “Nesid” to refer to Malay women and also a problem with the term “ethnicity” or East Asian, believing them to be inappropriate or generic. Well, we are not discussing semantics/labels. Regardless of what terminology one uses, the nature and extent of population differences remain, and it is these differences that are relevant to the discussion, not labels. When it is clear what populations you and I are talking about, it doesn’t matter how one labels them.

It should be obvious from the context that when I referred to East Asians, I was not talking about the Aeta or Ainu; I was talking about stereotypical Chinese and similar people. There is a north-south cline in East Asia involving the East Asian and Australo-Melanesian groups. Therefore, in Southeast Asia, people tend to be a mix of the mainland East Asian-type (e.g., Chinese-type looks) and aboriginal people similar to the Australo-Melanesians, with some populations leaning toward either extreme. When I talked about Southeast Asian women, it should be obvious from the context that I am not talking about the Aeta or equivalent tribal groups. You need to consider the context of the discussion. Terms that you are using, such as Nesid, Palaungid or Negritid, are not in current usage in anthropology and their meanings not self-evident to most people. If you want to refer to a specific population, use the name of that population and link to photos instead of using obscure terminology.

Skull analyses show the Australo-Melanesians clustering with sub-Saharan Africans but genetic analyses do not show any such clustering. The latter scenario is easily understood when one realizes that sub-Saharan Africans and Australo-Melanesians have been geographically separated for tens of thousands of years but have retained most of the generalized (ancestral) skull form among humans. Therefore, your calling the Aeta “Negroid” is mistaken as they do not genetically cluster with sub-Saharan Africans before clustering with other East Asians.

I have never said anything along the lines of the Eskimos being very masculine.

It is a matter of common observation that East Asians tend to have larger faces and larger jaws than Europeans if you control for body size, and in many cases even if you ignore body size (e.g., 1, 2; the 2nd picture shows southeast Asian children with faces approaching the size of a European adult).

The libraries close to where I live do not have Knußmann’s book and it does not appear to be on sale by online book retailers, and hence I cannot check whether it really describes a concave nose as pedomorphic and ranks different populations on femininity, but if it is a recent anthropological treatise, I doubt that academics would be addressing such topics, i.e., either you are incorrectly representing the book or the authors have included absurdities in it. If one had to compare the masculinity-femininity of the physical form of different populations, here is how one could go about it. Take 3-D photographs of men and women from different populations; the form will be seen to vary as a function of size, sex and ethnic background. Then, controlling for sex and the ethnicity factor would allow one to compare populations with respect to the sexual dimorphism factor, and the anthropometric data could be seen in light of sex hormone profiles and differences in the androgen and estrogen receptors. If Rainer Knußmann (1996) has indeed ranked populations on femininity, then it is highly unlikely that this methodology was used as it has caught on only recently. Not using this methodology will generally translate to people using idiosyncratic definitions of the femininity of physical form to rank populations.

For instance, if one goes by your comments, women in various East Asian populations would be ranked as the most feminine on the basis of their mid-facial flatness (which you call pedomorphic), but given that these women tend to have some of the least feminine curves, one would have to classify them as among the least feminine women with respect to the femininity of body curves. Similarly, if one were to take your conceptualization of nose projection being inversely related to femininity, sub-Saharan African women would be classified as the most feminine, followed by East Asian women, and European women would be the most masculine. If one were to consider the gracilization and size of the gonial region, one would classify Northern European women as the most feminine. If one were to positively relate backside protrusion to femininity, sub-Saharan African women would be ranked as the most feminine and East Asian women the least, but if we consider muscularity to be negatively related to femininity, then sub-Saharan African women would be ranked the most masculine and south Asian and southeast Asian women the most feminine. If stature is conceptualized to be negatively related to femininity, then pygmy women would be the most feminine. In short, idiosyncratic definitions do not help as they do not lead to consistent classifications. In order to classify “Nesid” women as the most feminine, you are ignoring the relative lack of feminine curves among them compared to European women.

I know that there are no East Asian women in the attractive women section of this site, but I have pointed out elsewhere that this site is targeting Western people and hence it is not necessary to focus on non-European women. On the other hand, the underrepresentation of southern European women has to do with the difficulty of finding feminine and attractive ones among them; I haven’t come across very many of them; I don’t have a problem finding southern European women with prominent breasts, but they also need to have good faces and feminine waist-hip-backside proportions for me to consider putting their pictures in the attractive women section. In case you haven't noticed, high-end European models are disproportionately Northern European types.

One does not have a fetish for humans like you think I have for some types of women; one has a fetish for non-living objects. Additionally, the women in the attractive women section are not being recommended to the viewers but being showcased as women that look strikingly different from high-fashion models, including "sexy" fashion models; the objective is of an educational nature.

You have said that “we are trying to help you.” We? All comments by d'Artagnan appear to be coming from a single individual. And how exactly have you tried to help me? None of your comments pertain to the question that prompted me to set up this section of the site. If you wanted to help me, then you could start by emailing off-topic comment to me rather than posting them here. I am looking for pictures of feminine and attractive southern European women. If according to you, they are more feminine than Northern European women, then it should be easy to come across a lot of them. Perhaps you would be kind enough to point out these women to me so that I can put them up in the attractive women section. I may expand my site in the future to more extensively address non-European women, and if you could point out examples of feminine and attractive East Asian (or “Nesid”) women, then their pictures will come in very handy.

You have accused me of making a major “Asian races” error, which is nothing but a semantics/labeling issue; when it is clear what populations are being talked about, labels don’t matter, and the problem is with your usage of obscure terminology, e.g., Nesid instead of Bali/Malay. If one uses current population names and links to pictures, then it is very clear what populations one is talking about. Additionally, you have accused me of listing numerous other falsehoods without describing any one of them. Anyway, email off-topic comments to me instead of posting them here.

Prof. Rainer Knußmann has been continuing the line of reasoning of classical anthropology, at the University of Hamburg, building on the earlier manual of Rudolf Martin and Karl Saller (1956, rev. ed., 1st ed. 1914).Knußmann categorizes 36 distinct human races and some subraces according to physical traits (chapter "Spezielle Rassenkunde(Rassensytematik)",pp.429-448), and concludes that the Paleomongolid (southern Mongolid) race is an example of paedomorphosis,(i.e., childlike concerning facial traits and body type), while the Nordic race is a typical masculine one ["Es gibt Rassen, die einen mehr kindhaften (pädomorphen)Habitus bewahrt haben (z.B. Palämongolide,Abb.308 [and as their subrace especially the Nesids with extreme pedomorphous appearance, s. photograph in "Knußmann" of half nude Nesid woman which I propose as a Nesid reference picture , Mr. Holland]),und solche, die in der Ontogenese stärker vorprellen, so daß sie mehr das typische Erwachsenenbild repräsentieren (...)"; "Manche Rassen sind als ganze mehr dem männlichen (z.B. Nordide,Dinaride), andere dem weiblichen Pol (z.B. Mediterranide,Palämongolide) angenähert."p.407.].

John Randal Baker for his part arrives at the same conclusion of paedomorphosis in the Palaemongolids of southeastern Asia (1974)["The somewhat paedomorphous peoples grouped together by Eickstedt as Palaemongolids have a very wide distribution (...)",p.538]. Baker provides a detailed description of the Mongoliform Sanid bushmen [chapter "The Sanids (Bushmen)",pp.303-325], and argues that their physical and psychological paedomorphosis hindered them from establishing a more advanced civilization ["Although mankind as a whole is paedomorphous,those ethnic taxa (the Sanids among them) that are markedly more paedomorphous than the rest have never achieved the status of civilization, or anything approaching it, by their own initiative.It would seem that when carried beyond a certain point, paedomorphosis is antagonistic to purely intellectual advance.",p.324; so an anthropological necessity arises to study the feminine psyche , too, on your site if it is really about "feminine beauty"]. Even the Boasian Ashley Montagu notes in his work that "One result of this is the high frequency of beauty among mongoloid males and females, a beauty of great delicacy (...). The differential action of neoteny has produced some peculiar effects. For example, among the highly neotenized Japanese the males upper and lower jaws have been reduced in size while the teeth have not. The result has created a disharmony in many males in the form of extreme crowding and malocclusion of the teeth." [Montagu, Ashley (1989) Growing Young N.Y.: McGraw Hill pp. 40]. The majority of biological anthropologists agree that paedomorphous physicality and behavior are closely associated with femininity, and that members of the Asiatic races are more feminine than the Caucasian races.

Secondly, Knußmann draws from Max Hartmann’s theory of relative sexuality in animals and plants (Hartmann, 1956; Chen, 2003).Knußmann writes :" Für die geschlechtertypologische Varationsreihe (M-W-Linie,vgl.Kap.IIIB2a) wurde die Partnerregel aufgestellt, daß ein ganzes M und ein ganzes W zusammenzutreten streben, wobei M und W von Fall zu Fall in verschiedenem Prozentsatz auf die beiden Partner verteilt sein können."(p.456). According to Hartmann, the intensity of sexuality in heterozygous gametes may not be the same for all individuals in a species, but instead may lie on a continuum, ranging from intensely female to intensely male. Furthermore, male gametes of high intensity then tend to unite with female gametes of high intensity. Hartmann's theory of relative sexuality was based upon study of sexual reproduction in certain isogamous and anisogamous algae (Smith, 1956). But Hartmann was also interested in human sexuality (Chen, 2003). Knußmann, maintaining Hartmann’s theory for humans, reasserts that very masculine men should be attracted to very feminine women, which could explain Caucasian men’s sexual attraction to Asian women. These couples would then be ideal in terms of the "power aspect" of sexuality, in which men have a tendentious instinct for dominance and women for submission. Knußmann believes that this is essential for a stable relationship, in contrast to the Halbkontrastehen (a dominant man with a semi-dominant (virago) woman), which is unstable due to unclear structures of power [Knußmann:"Es gibt Hinweise darauf, daß in mißglückten Ehen (geschiedene oder in Scheidung lebende Partner) keine Heterogamie bezüglich der leptomorph-pyknomorphen Variationsreihe vorliegt, sondern die Halbkontrastehen überdurchschnittlich häufig auftreten.",p.457].


1. J. R. Baker. (1974) Race. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

2. H.-A. Chen. (2003) Die Sexualitätstheorie und "Theoretische Biologie" von Max Hartmann in der ersten Hälfte des zwanzigsten Jahrhunderts. Sudhoffs Archiv Beiheft, 46.

3. M. Hartmann (1956) Die Sexualität: Das Wesen und die Grundgesetzlichkeiten des Geschlechts und der Geschlechtsbestimmung im Tier- und Pflanzenreich. (Jena, 1943; 2nd ed. 1956)

4. R. Knußmann. (1996) Vergleichende Biologie des Menschen: Lehrbuch der Anthropologie und Humangenetik. Fischer, Stuttgart;ISBN 343725040X,
please buy this book, Mr. Holland, it's unique

5. R. Martin and K. Saller. (1956) Lehrbuch der Anthropologie in systematischer Darstellung mit besonderer Berucksichtigung der anthropologischen Methoden. Fischer Verlag, Jena.

6. A. Montagu (1989) Growing Young. Bergin and Garvey, New York. 2nd ed.

7. G. M. Smith, 1956. The Role of Study of Algae in the Development of Botany. American Journal of Biology, 43:(7), pp. 537-543

Thank you very much, Mr. Holland. Please add the Nesid woman dancer "" to your website as an example of the feminine Nesid women.I am looking forward to your reply.

d'Artagnan: It is high time for you to start emailing me off-topic comments rather than posting them here. How is your comment relevant to the reason why this section was set up? It is also time for you to advance beyond mid-twentieth century anthropology.

You have cited Ashley Montagu on the neotenous face form of the Japanese, completely oblivious to my citing current research(1) that neoteny doesn’t apply to human face shape; see page 6. Growth retardation among human skulls compared to ape skulls implies that the extent of jaw regression among humans is at most partly neotenous, but the jaws are most regressed among Northern Europeans, notably more protruding among Northeast/East Asians (Chinese, Chukchis, Mongolians, Koreans, Buryats and other Siberians) and, on average, even more protruding among mainland Southeast Asians (Vietnamese, Cambodian, Thai, Malay, Myanmar)(2).

Compared to the mainland Southeast Asian populations mentioned above, the Northeast/East Asian populations mentioned above also have flatter fronto-orbital regions, flatter zygomaxillary regions and the flattest nasal bones in East Asia are found in some Northeast Asian populations, i.e., mid-faces are less flat among the mainland southeast Asian populations, on average(2); see page 2. How then by your reasoning are the Southeast Asian populations such as the Malay/Thai more pedomorphic than the Northeast Asians?

More importantly, canonical correlation analysis of indices of facial flatness in the sagittal and transverse planes assessed by measuring skull samples from around the world revealed a statistically significant first factor, the standardized coefficients of which, shown below, reveal a tendency for deeper infraglabellar notches to correlate with sagittally flatter foreheads, more protruding jaws, a flatter fronto-orbital region and flatter nasal bones(2).

Standardized coefficients of canonical correlation analysis; Hanihara's paper on human facial flatness.

Whereas children do have flattened mid-faces, they do not have deep infraglabellar notches and protruding jaws. So how is the mid-facial flattening of the East Asian populations pedomorphic? Don’t you understand that the canonical correlation analysis and fossils of human ancestors point to the generalized skull form among humans, i.e., the mid-facial flattening of the East Asian populations considered appears to be differential retention of the ancestral form rather than pedomorphy? I have addressed all the data above within this site, but you either haven’t read it, don’t care or don’t understand it.

Your citations are outdated. Of the current references that you have cited, Knußmann’s book at most discusses published literature current in the early 1990s, and Chen’s paper (2003) is irrelevant since it is obvious that in a sexually dimorphic sexually reproducing species, the central tendency in the population will be for the masculine to prefer the feminine; there is no need to cite the behavior of algae. Early anthropologists did not have access to sophisticated statistical tools used by Hanihara and Penin et al. (the authors whose research is cited) and the three dimensional measurements made by Penin et al. Learn; read current anthropological literature.

Many white men do not find East Asian women appealing, and of the few who do, they prefer white women to East Asian women. Your assertions about the greater femininity of East Asian women are ridiculous. The Bali woman you cite does not appear to be feminine; she has small breasts and appears to have a tubular torso.

Stop commenting here unless it is relevant to the topic. Once again, email off-topic comments to me.


1. Penin, X., Berge, C., and Baylac, M., Ontogenetic study of the skull in modern humans and the common chimpanzees: neotenic hypothesis reconsidered with a tridimensional Procrustes analysis, Am J Phys Anthropol, 118, 50 (2002).

2. Hanihara, T., Frontal and facial flatness of major human populations, Am J Phys Anthropol, 111, 105 (2000).

Once again, I asserted that Nesid women have a much more feminine face and body type Nordid women (for breasts and buttocks my comments above). v. Rudolf Martin, Karl Saller,Eickstedt Knußmann (1996) and me think so. I took your comments very , very serious , but now you call long-established facts "ridiculous".And again , you avoided the term "Nesid". Of course, it is ridiculous to call the "East Asians" (to use your term) feminine, as e.g. the Tungids and Eskimids are extremely masculine in many respects.Being a professor of anthropology myself and you seemingly a scholar of biology/anthropology , too,
I ask myself why you as an obviously brilliant scientist with a definitely unique website avoid
so much to acknowledge the extreme facial and body type feminity of the Nesids. As seems as your photos of other races a steatypygious Negritid girl, an Austarlid man etc. are meant to be kind of a "gothic " show as e.g. Stratz's "Women's Racial beauty " show much more appealing women from e.g. the Australid race despite your correct
assertions of their greater facial masculinity. A very critical thinker could assume that this is something like the ironic website "March of the Giants" were with the "ugly face trick" e.g. the Nordic race is presented as aesthetically inferior. I don't assume this, but someone could suspect so.If this would be the case what I don't think and hope, there could arise the accusation of Nazi-like methods, e.g. presenting the Jews in the propaganda film "The eternal Jew" having a "aesthetically" "inferior", "disgusting" and "offending" physical appearance.I consider these reasoning as basically belonging to this discussion, because everything starts with a guts feeling, I would like to know what your guts feeling about Nesid
women are despite your labeling them as more "masculine" than Europid women. As we anthropologists have an especially high responsibility towards mankind,could you please excuse my digging to the core of the issue which not only for historians of science is of great interest.Thank you very much , Mr. Holland. I am looking forward to your reply.

d'Artagnan: If you are an anthropologist and wish to educate the public, believing that you have a responsibility toward humankind to do so, then I recommend that you familiarize yourself with current anthropological literature, avoid the use of outdated/obscure terminology and set up a website since publishing in journals will only expose your work to a handful of academics.

There are no long-established facts about the femininity-pedomorphy equation like you have stated, the concept of neoteny as you have used and the mid-facial flattening of “Nesid” and other East Asian populations being an example of pedomorphy as my citations and comments amply illustrate. You have ignored evidence that mid-facial flattening is less among “Nesids” than among Northeast Asians, on average, making the “Nesids” less facially pedomorphic than Northeast Asians by your reasoning.

In my previous comment, I specified the mainland Southeast Asian populations being addressed, i.e., there is no need to use outdated and obscure labels such as “Nesid” or “Palaungid.”

You want me to acknowledge the “extreme facial and body type feminity of the Nesids”? Where is your documentation of such extreme femininity? I am not interested in “so and so said this.” Come up with pictures of their physiques which show greater femininity than that of the feminine European women documented in the attractive women section.

Let me make it clear that if you repeat your assertion about the mid-facial flattening of any adult human population being pedomorphic and thereby feminine then you will need to explain the results from the canonical correlation analysis presented above, as well as the facial flattening data provided by Hanihara, and show how the finds fit in with your statement or else you are not welcome to continue commenting here. And no, I haven’t labeled “Nesid” women more masculine than European women. I am interested in the question that is title of this entry, not attaching masculine-feminine labels to different populations.

Regarding the pictures of the African with a protruding backside and the Australian that you believe to not be attractive, these pictures are shown in the context of extreme contrasts, whereby it is not necessary to select pictures based on attractiveness or representativeness. Therefore, your stated concerns are not applicable.

Let us start systematically with the about 36 human races
Do you acknowledge the about 36 distinct races of mankind (see especially the colour photos by Glowatzki from the 1970s confirmed by Knußmann,Germany's no.1 of anthropology, in 1996) ? Then we take Knußmann's 1996 confirmation of the Nesids as the most feminine race and the comparability of all races concerning femininity/masculinity (and therefore attractiveness to non-androgynous men, Max Hartmann, Knußmann).(s. representing the average racial femininity of the Nesid women being much more feminine than the viragos of e.g. Osteuropid type from e.g. Zarys Antropologii Polski on the first-mentioned site;Schwidetzkis "Racial history of mankind" confirms this,too).Do you agree ?
There are, as Knußmann writes , some exceptions of the Nesid femininity, but the overwhelming number of their features are feminine/paedomorphous.
Mankind is paedomorphous as a whole (John Randal Baker,Race,1974, Oxford University Press), but some races are extremely paedomorphous and therefore have retained the least ancestral traits. In contrast to your cited studies , we have to compare modern races with the old ancestral forms of e.g. homo habilis or homo erectus , not with pleistocene men which themselves could have been proto-Europids or proto-Mongolids (logical fallacy,petitio principii).It is even assumed that racial differentiation could have started with homo erectus about 500000 years ago (!).
Additionally , it seems that you rule out even the possibility of facial and body type paedomorphosis(= femininity) being attractive to men due to your obvious Christian Anglo-American cultural background ("It should also be noted that normal developmental processes are expected to orient a person toward sexually mature individuals rather than sexually immature individuals. Therefore, pedomorphy is not a correlate of beauty, and more attractive features that appear to be paedomorphic are either somewhat more feminine than average features (e.g., less prominent noses and broader faces, controlling for other factors) and thereby more attractive in women or somewhat more gracile than average features and thereby more attractive in both men and women."One could label this "scientific paedophobia" .This is counterintuitive,not substantiated by facts, in total contrast to Knußmann's unique manual (1996) and my reasoning.
Thank you very much, Mr. Holland. I am looking forward to your reply.d'Artagnan

d'Artagnan: This discussion is not productive. The classification of human populations and attaching labels to them are not relevant to this section. Besides, you are supposed to email off-topic comments to me. Arguments are not made by authority in science but by evidence. What evidence is there that “Nesid” women are more feminine than others? This evidence has to be in the form of sex hormone/steroid receptor profiles and/or showing that the purported characteristics that you are labeling more feminine, such as the greater mid-facial flattening of the “Nesids” compared to Europeans, are caused by increased feminization.

Now you have said that humans are pedomorphous as a whole, and some populations are extremely pedomorphic and thereby least retain ancestral features. Humans weigh less than gorillas and could be considered pedomorphous on this count by your criteria, but humans are larger than a closer relative, chimpanzees. Therefore, what kind of pedomorphy characterizes humans? Flattened noses are pedomorphic according to you, but the nasal bones in the great apes are flatter than among humans. How is this possible if humans are more pedomorphous than apes? If you consider the lower jaw, who do you think has the most overall derived, i.e., least ancestral, lower jaw? Why do “Nesid” women have larger teeth than European women if they are more feminine and less likely to retain ancestral features? The citation for the teeth size find is:


Hanihara, T., and Ishida, H., Metric dental variation of major human populations, Am J Phys Anthropol, 128, 287 (2005).

The Pleistocene samples that I have talked about are not from a particular region; they are from humans populations all over the globe and reveal more or less flat mid-faces. It seems that I have wasted my time posting the results from the canonical correlation analysis; why can’t you understand that the mid-facial flattening of East Asian populations is an ancestral feature, not something feminine or pedomorphic? Why have you repeatedly ignored evidence that mid-facial flattening is greater in Northeast Asia than in mainland Southeast Asia and thereby the mainland Southeast Asians are less feminine/pedomorphic by your criteria?

I do not have an Anglo-Christian background, and any background is irrelevant as far as the central tendency of erotic preferences in a population goes. This central tendency obviously is to prefer sexually mature young adults. I need to cite evidence for this? Why would it be otherwise? Fertility and fecundity drop as one moves away from young adults. Like I said, “more attractive features that appear to be paedomorphic are either somewhat more feminine than average features (e.g., less prominent noses and broader faces, controlling for other factors) and thereby more attractive in women or somewhat more gracile than average features and thereby more attractive in both men and women.”

This discussion is completely useless as far as the question that is the title is concerned. I may address additional comments by you if you email me, but please don’t post here anymore.

The question was if we can compare the attractiveness of women from different populations. The answer is yes, and I was the first to introduce the two relevant anthropological arguments: femininity is attractive to non-androgynous Nordish men (Rainer Knußmann,Max Hartmann;the "European consensus" as you called it in cultural terms); the about 36 races exist , have great relevance to aesthetic reasoning, and can be classified on a continuum of masculine-feminine with the Nesids on the feminine end. In your showing Europeanization as feminization and therefore more attractive to non-androgynous men, it is obvious that you compare the European woman to a
Nilotoid mulatta. Compared to a Nesid , it would have been impossible to conclude a greater femininity. Of course there may be single traits
that are more masculine in the Nesids, but the feminine traits are overwhelming.
Rather strange are two comments of yours despite rejecting me nonchalantly as a serious discussion partner.You wrote above:"The libraries close to where I live do not have Knußmann’s book and it does not appear to be on sale by online book retailers, and hence I cannot check whether it really describes a concave nose as pedomorphic and ranks different populations on femininity, but if it is a recent anthropological treatise, I doubt that academics would be addressing such topics, i.e., either you are incorrectly representing the book or the authors have included absurdities in it." This could be labeled similar to the reasoning of an eight-year old who thinks that something stops existing after he stands behind a curtain and he himself cannot see anything any more.It illustrates well the Tolstoy syndrom in which you obviously are. A strange reaction of a scientist like you, but I gave you the ISBN so you can order the book easily.Secondly,
you admitted "If one were to consider the gracilization and size of the gonial region, one would classify Northern European women as the most feminine. If one were to positively relate backside protrusion to femininity, sub-Saharan African women would be ranked as the most feminine and East Asian women the least, but if we consider muscularity to be negatively related to femininity, then sub-Saharan African women would be ranked the most masculine and south Asian and southeast Asian women the most feminine. If stature is conceptualized to be negatively related to femininity, then pygmy women would be the most feminine". So you are very well aware of the classical concept of femininity, but you label it "idiosyncratic". But you also use on your page the classical dichotymy of masculine-feminine, there is nothing else. So it would be difficult for you to present m o s t Nesid features as non-feminine(despite from citing Japanese authors who are obviously afraid to be seen as members of a paedomorphous race and so denying the Mongolid paedomorphosis incorrectly; numerous others example can be given , e.g. Franz Boas' Jewish scholars who controlled world anthropology after 1945 having a secret Jewish agenda; see. e.g. Kevin MacDOnald "The Culture of Critique",2002). Additionally, your classification can be seen as "idiosyncratic" , because you ackwoledge the buttocks and breasts and a certain waist-to-hip ratio as feminine ("hourglass figure") , but not e.g. a gracile body of about 158cm whichNordish women definitely have not compared to Nesid women on average.The consequence of your ideas are the völkische death of the Nordish race.Drawing the attention of men towards Nordish Europid women will help the extinction of the Nordish race until the end of the 21th century.This is of course not your intention , but given no political shift , this would be the inevitable consequence.Can women be feminine whose majority is so deeply infected with feminism and viragodom? Definitely not.But I can only emphasize again that I am a fan of yours and your website and I only want to help you as I have about 40 years of experience as a physical anthropologist in leading positions of the science establishment. Additionally you seem to be the author of a book on homosexuality and the homosexuals spreading AIDS predominantly , pointing out the biological nature of homosexuality, ideas which I support totally. Thank you very much , Mr. Holland.I am looking forward to your reply. d'Artagnan

For less male hormons of Mongolids see Jean Philippe Rushton and his extensice charts(wikipedia article).Primitivity and paedomorphosis are antagonistic basically , so a flat nose can mean both, we have to differentiate. The Nesid nose resembles the human child form differing from the very robust nose of the homo erectus.The single trait of the long teeth of the Mongolids (not the Nesids as you stated) are explained by Ashley Montagu (alias Israel Ehrenberg)in "Growing young" devoted to Mongolid neoteny/paedomorphosis : the neotenization
of the Mongolids left out some features, the jaws got more gracile but some upper teeth were left out.I am astonished that you do not know this literature. Thank you very much Mr. Holland, I am looking to your reply. d'Artagnan

You cannot deny the Nesids femininity by only the mid-facial flattening . Even if it were the case as you wrote (but see my homo-erectus-argument) ,the Nesids are more feminine (due to a overwhelming number of paedomorphous traits) than the Palaungid , Tungid and Sinid Asians. There is a racial continuum of feminine to masculine among the Mongolids as follows: Nesid-Palaungid-Tungid-Sinid-(Turanid).Thank you very much. I am looking forward to your reply, Mr. Holland. d'Artagnan

As long as you do not acknowledge the existence of the Nesid race, Mr. Holland, whose overall character is extremely feminine, we cannot come to terms. If a capable scientist like you with a unique website ignores quite simple and long-established facts , one could assume that you have a political agenda and/ or a"Nordih fetish" .This "Nordih fetish" may not only have its roots in your aesthetic evaluation due to Europid racial instincts ("racial mating scheme",Knußmann), but also could have been based on racist thinking as in Stratz's work "The racial beauty of woman"(1903) presenting all non-Nordish women as inferior.Or it is just the possible loss of reputation which hinders you from admitting the European women=femininity error ? I even could imagine that this site as I stated above is intended to be destructive
to Nordish men's interests as they are diverted from the völkische solution of the "feminist question ", to mix with feminine and intelligent Southeast Asian women.Your stating that you do not have a Christian-Anglo background points towards this direction. Inconsistent anthropological concepts can do much damage. In the recent Iraq catastrophe (Tony Blair), the military anthropologists ignored once again the racial character of the Arabids , which are not only the intelligent descendants of the founders of civilization, but also are fierce fighters against Westernization which will harm their civilization inevitably , e.g. by feminism. This war costs trillions of dollars and initializes the final stages for a fatal middle East atomic war within the next 40 years which could even end America's superpower status as China will use it for an additional huge gain of power in the East Asian theatre. It seems, that many anthropologists and psychologists within the CIA were well aware of this coming catastrophe, but they were silenced by its new "military " directors .

d’Artagnan: Now that you have attempted to address the question that is the title of this entry, you have posted something that is partly relevant to this section for the first time. However, your arguments remain absurd as usual. I have addressed numerous objective correlates of beauty and shown that the answer is no, but you have only addressed femininity and answered yes to the question. How can you say “yes” after ignoring the other correlates? Besides, where have I portrayed Europeanization as synonymous with feminization?

Your accusation that features that I labeled more feminine are idiosyncratic is patently absurd. I have cited numerous studies relating waist-to-hip ratio, breast size, facial femininity, etc. to sex hormone profiles; see, for example, the “eating disorders” page; these results and this study. I have also cited studies where craniofacial variation within the same population was partitioned into allometry and sexual dimorphism factors, easily allowing one to infer what constitutes feminization; see the “feminine vs. masculine” page.

On the other hand, what evidence have you cited that the features that you are calling feminine, pertinent to between-populations comparisons, are related to feminization but not other factors? Consider the following three items.

Item A. You have not cited one study where skeletal/facial variability was partitioned into three components – an ancestry component, an allometry comment and a sexual dimorphism component -- and it was shown that after controlling for the ancestry and allometry factors, the sexual dimorphism factor allows one to label some populations more feminine and justifies your reasoning. For instance, where is your evidence that the shorter height and less bone mass of “Nesid” women is a result of greater feminization?

Item B. It is pathetic that once again I have to point out that mid-facial flattening is greater in Northeast Asia than in Southeast Asia (see Hanihara’s data), which by your reasoning should imply that the Northeast Asians are more feminine, yet among the East Asians, you assign the highest femininity to the southeast Asian groups.

Anyway, I have had enough of your absurdities and hope that you quit posting them after looking at the following important data on the Lesser Sunda Island populations (Bali, Timor, Sumbawa, Flores people; “Nesids”) vs. Norwegians: index of depth of infraglabellar notch (102.0 vs. 101.6), index of prognathism (97.9 vs. 94.9), index of fronto-orbital flattening (18.0 vs. 18.8) and index of nasal bone flattening (38.1 vs. 52.0). See Hanihara’s paper for the standard deviations. Consider also the Nesid vs. Norwegian measurements for basion-prosthion length (96.5 vs. 95.1) and basion-nasion length (98.7 vs. 100.2). In addition, I have already cited evidence for the larger teeth of the “Nesids” compared to Europeans; read the paper; the “Nesids” as well as “Mongolids” have larger teeth than Europeans. What is the big picture? The Nesids are shifted toward the ancestral condition on multiple counts: deeper infragalbellar notches, flatter mid-faces, more protruding jaws, larger lower jaw and bigger teeth; the latter two in spite of their much smaller physical size. Are “Nesid” facial features more derived than Northern European? Please! Look at the table showing the canonical correlation coefficients again. Why don’t you see that the features that you have been calling more feminine are actually ancestral features?

Quit saying that I am implying that the Nesids are somehow more masculine. Masculine and feminine women exist in all populations. If there is a way to compare the masculinity-femininity of different populations, then it surely isn’t using your idiosyncratic criteria, which are not supported in the literature.

Item C. You have mentioned lower androgen levels in East Asian women compared to European women, but does this make them more feminine? Anorexic women have lower androgen levels than normal women; see the “eating disorders” page. Do anorexic women appear more feminine than normal women? What about estrogens? What about testosterone-to-estradiol ratio? Take a look at the following table.

Sex hormone profiles in African-American, white, Chinese and Japanese women.

Data above reproduced from: Sowers MR, Wilson AL, Kardia SR, Chu J, Ferrell R. Aromatase Gene (CYP 19) Polymorphisms and Endogenous Androgen Concentrations in a Multiracial/Multiethnic, Multisite Study of Women at Midlife. The American Journal of Medicine. Volume 119, Issue 9, Supplement 1, September 2006, Pages S23-S30.

Testosterone is 9.22% higher among North American white women compared to the average of Chinese and Japanese women, but estradiol is 22.66% higher. The tendency is for testosterone-to-estradiol ratio to be lowest among white women; larger sample sizes will show statistically significant differences in this regard. Estradiol is a much more powerful hormone than testosterone; just note the nanomolar but picomolar concentrations of testosterone and estradiol, respectively. In other words, a 20% increase in estradiol levels is going to have a more powerful effect than a 10% increase in testosterone. The study cited has some limitations, given that the women are around age 45 and number 412 African-Americans, 807 whites, 151 Chinese and 168 Japanese, but the picture is consistent with other research. If you look at this study, it is clear that the “Tungid,” “Sinid” and “Palaungid” people belong to the same population cluster, i.e., overall differences between these groups are going to be less than the overall differences between either of these groups and Europeans. In other words, one can be quite confident that the “Tungids,” the “Sinids” and the “Palaungids” have testosterone-to-estradiol ratios that are higher (more masculine), on average, than in European women, Northern Europeans in particular. This is consistent with the less feminine-looking physiques of these East Asian populations. You have yet to cite examples of East Asian women that have more feminine-looking physiques than the physiques of the feminine women (exclude the somewhat masculinized ones) shown in the attractive women section.

Therefore, your criteria remain idiosyncratic, and you have not provided any anatomical or physiological justification for assigning greater femininity to East Asian women.

Your assertion that “Of course there may be single traits that are more masculine in the Nesids, but the feminine traits are overwhelming” is nonsense. If one comes across a woman with above average femininity that has one or two masculine-looking features, then these features cannot be called masculine; they are simply masculine-looking. Once again, sex hormones only partly shape physical features, and it is possible for factors other than sex hormones to shape a feature such that it looks masculine.

Further Comments: Regarding your comparing my reasoning to that of an 8-year-old, I am aware that current anthropological literature does not describe a concave nose as pedomorphic or rank different populations on femininity. Therefore, I am justified in expecting that academics in a mainstream recent anthropological treatise will not be portraying the literature as you have described it, replete with decades-old and largely abandoned terminology. If the book is a lowbrow attempt at resurrecting old ideas, then it may not be part of the mainstream anthropological literature. I can’t really comment unless I get a hold of the book.

You said, ‘So you are very well aware of the classical concept of femininity, but you label it “idiosyncratic”. But you also use on your page the classical dichotymy of masculine-feminine, there is nothing else.’ My comment illustrated the inconsistency of classification if one were to use your idiosyncratic criteria; I was not describing the “classical concept of femininity.” Besides, masculine-feminine variation does not need to be described as classical. If there are only two sexes, then a dichotomy will result with respect to numerous sex differences.

I have cited Hanihara’s data and analysis as is. There is no reason to believe that Hanihara fudged up the data or the analysis to make East Asians look better. His data reveal features in East Asians that you are calling pedomorphic, but they don’t represent pedomorphy.

Your assertion that my drawing the attention of men toward Nordic women will make them disappear by the end of the 21st century is a 9.0 on a 0-10 absurdity scale. Most white women and Northern European ones in particular have no interest in non-white men, and Nordic women are incompatible with non-white men in general for some or the other reason. Your doomsday scenario requires a large non-European population living in the midst of Northern Europeans, but how likely is this to happen? Large-scale Immigration into Western nations has added a lot of people hostile toward Western culture and massively increased the underclass, and is thereby not sustainable in the long run. The immigrants in general are also not assimilating and this is bound to increase inter-ethnic conflict in the future, which in turn will lead to increased segregation and reduced odds of inter-ethnic marriage, notwithstanding increased ethnic diversity, which will not be increasing indefinitely. What do you mean by “I even could imagine that this site as I stated above is intended to be destructive to Nordish men’s interests as they are diverted from the völkische solution of the “feminist question “, to mix with feminine and intelligent Southeast Asian women.” You mean that I will be prompting the latter type of mixing? How?

Anyway, this site has nothing to do with drawing the attention of men toward Northern European women; it is about promoting feminine beauty among Western people. I told you before that Northern European women are overrepresented among high-end models, and the attractive women section simply reflects this.

You have repeated Ashley Montagu on the alleged neotenization of the “Mongoloid” jaw, oblivious to my citing recent evidence that 1) the concept of neoteny does not apply to human face shape, with the regression of the jaw at most being partially neotenous; 2) the jaws are more protruding among “Mongoloids” and “Nesids” and 3) “Mongoloids” and “Nesids” have larger jaws if you control for body size and often even absolutely.

In summary, it should be obvious why I do not consider you to be a serious discussion partner. You are unfamiliar with current literature and do not seem willing to acquaint yourself with it.

Hello Mr. Holland.
Again I have to cite the Knußmann-Weininger-Martin-Saller-Hartmann-v.Eickstedt-Schwidetzky concept of femininity, the mainstream concept for 150 years until Boasian Jewish anthropologists hijacked anthropology (for how this could happen, how the Nordish race that ruled the world in 1930 could be destroyed during some decades see Kevin MacDonald, The Culture of Critique,2002).Have you bought the Knußmann yet?
1.) Knußmann et al. concept of femininity has two extremes : femininity and masculinity. There is one big exception, the small buttocks and breasts which can be seen both as masculine and feminine. If one would try to optimize the Nesid
paedomorphous average women by bigger breasts and buttocks, one would get in some respects a more feminine woman, but the aspect of childlikeness and youth would be dimininished (according to Knußmann's concept).I do not idolize all Nesid features in contrast to your idolizing the Nordish women in general. Despite the European Nordic women having a lot of masculine features (Knußmann), you do not acknowledge one single masculine trait! This is putting it upside down. Of course one reason for this is your not differentiating between the Mongolid races . But the Sinid race which is numerically very relevant in studies that do not differentiate between the Mongolid races, is Europiform . You prove the masculininity of the Asians mostly by the Europiform Sinids ! Aditionally , allometry ,racial primitivity,paedomorphosis are means for you to sweep away any allegations of Nordic women's masculinity.You analyze traits correctly concerning allometry and ancestral traits, but in the end it is not important where it comes from, the features are either physically and psychically feminine or masculine .But Knußmann, Rushton and Baker clearly state that e.g. the Sudanids ancestral primitivity is connected to higher aggressivity, higher level of hormons,more sexuality. Allometry is a nice thing, you may explain one third of Brigitte Nielsen's masculinity by allometry , but nevertheless, dolichocephalic, lepteroprosopic, macrosomic, Nordic,athletic, melancholic-thrillseeker, agressive, less heterosexual ," women" (viragos) are more masculine as all these traits have been
analysed as typically masculine by anthropologists. There are no Rices, Albrights, Angela Merkels, Ségolène Royals,Susan Sontags , Bella Abzugs, Alice Schwarzers, Mary Robinsons, Margaret Thatchers,Queen Elizabethes , Ruth Dreyfusses in Southeast Asia. Even the Philippine woman president looks very feminine compared with those (Nesid).So your strategy was
1.)Presenting me as a ridiculous "old European" scientist who is not worth of even discussing with.
2.)You use allometry, primitivity and paedomorphosis to esacpe the femininity debate (possible example:Brigitte Nielsen is not masculine , "she" is only a compound of allometrical traits based on some basic traits)
You say that paedomorphosis is not attractive to men. The Nesid women are paedomorphous, why are they attractive to Nesid men ? Ah, I forgot, the "racial mating scheme" (that I introduced as a valid scientific concept by the way, whereas you only heuristically spoke about the "common consensus"among men , whatever this may be).
3.)You are promoting Nordish women's assumed femininity. Of course, their facial femininity is bigger than the Nilotoid woman's you compare to them.Additionally due your confusions concerning paedomorphosis , you present a lot of so-called type-B-viragos (childlike features mixed with masculine ones,Kate Moss-like)wrongly as more masculine than some type-A-viragos (e.g. the blonde which is marking the feminine end compared to Brooke Shields being more masculine on your feminization vs. masculinization page).But this blonde is much more masculine than my Nesid example overall.Why do you not know the categories virago or type-A-virago and type-B-virago which are absolutely necessary in this discussion?And it can be expected that a blond Nordish woman like her is e.g. much more prone to homosexuality and aggression. This could be interesting to you as you have written obviously a study on homosexuality available on amazon. Furthermore, those Nordish women are more and more unwilling to get babies and to marry being terrorized and
terrorizing by feminazism (viragonazism).All other labels are too weak as this produces the völkische death of the Nordish race induced by a hostile leftist minority .
4.) If necessary you adopt subversive Boasian and deconstructivist strategies. For you and them it is has been of crucial importance to hinder a holistic discussion concerning all documentaions,all literature, all opinions and the referential interpretation of the authors who too often had political agendas.Your preliminary exclusions are the psychical femininity(I was the first to analyze your intra-European special fetish of the "Nordish women" because you do not seem to like Sudish greater femininity). Concerning psychical femininity which is a correlate of physical femininity , Europid women will fail of course, too.And as you stated,too, masculinity of women makes them more promiscuous, so it is no wonder that nearly all Europid porn actresses and prostitues are viragos being even harder than the hard racial Europid average.
5.) Due to my referential approach and the Boasian agenda, I have to ask you: Are you (partly) Jewish and/or do you have a Jewish self-identification ? "Holland" seems to be a typical Ashkenazim name.Concerning the matters above, this point is of essential importance.I myself come from a liberal Christian cultural background.
If your proposals of this website are applied and acknowledged, there are only the viragos , leftists and Ashkenazim who would benefit from the völkische death of the Nordish race. But in 2060 they will discover that the Chinese won't have become her new "big mama" (why ?) , neither the Islamic "Europe" or the still poor and anti-Semitic Afro-Americans (why?)in the US.
Again I would like to state that I have no animosities against anybody. But this cannot prevent me from having a realistic and honest approach in science.As there is of course no distinction between prescriptive and descriptive
science despite leftist assertions, the immediate consequence of my reasoning (and of numerous students of mine) is the negative discrimination of viragos in mating by Nordish men. We have been launching a campaign to promote Nesid women which clearly proves your main Mongolid races error with abundant material (including the first complete bibliography on Nesid paedomorphosis).By the way , there is a consensus among Western men about the greater femininity of Mongolids (China dolls). That only minority prefers them sexually is due to the racial mating scheme and the media propaganda
with ridiculous "feminity" as in "Sex in the City".In case of not being married, Mr. Holland, couldn't you test some Nesid women as girlfriends? Maybe then you feel the difference concerning femininity.
Thank you very much, Mr. Holland. I am looking forward to your reply.

d’Artagnan: Quite saying that your claims about femininity were the mainstream concept of femininity for 150 years before some political events removed them from anthropology. As the current evidence, cited above, indicates, your notions are incorrect. You need to stick to current evidence. If a long-standing belief has withstood the test of time, there would either be modern evidence in favor of it or no current evidence to dispute it.

There is no idolization of Nordish women here. Your claim that I do not acknowledge a single masculine trait among Nordic women is absurd. What is this site about? There are numerous comparisons of masculinized and feminized women here. Look around; you will see plenty of masculinized Nordish women. Once again, masculine and feminine women exist in all populations. The problem is with your assertion that a particular characteristic of a population can be described as masculine or feminine compared to the corresponding characteristic of another population. Your argument is:


"You analyze traits correctly concerning allometry and ancestral traits, but in the end it is not important where it comes from, the features are either physically and psychically feminine or masculine."

What kind of a scientist are you? Not important where it comes from? Even if masculinization/feminization are not involved? One cannot talk about more masculine or more feminine features unless one shows that greater masculinization or greater feminization is involved, respectively, which is something that you have been unable to show to back up your idiosyncratic notions.

No, I have not argued for the greater masculinization of East Asiatic women. I have simply disputed your assertion of their greater femininity. What is this talk about “Europiform Sinids”? All East Asian populations are strikingly different from Europeans. Besides, by your reasoning, even the “Europiform Sinids” have to be assigned greater femininity compared to European women. For the umpteenth time, I have to point out that the flattest mid-faces are found among the East Asiatic people whom you classify as most masculine (Sinids/Tungids) among East Asians.

Don’t accuse me of not distinguishing between different East Asiatic populations. I have previously cited evidence that the Northeast/East Asian group (Chinese, Chukchis, Mongolians, Koreans, Buryats and other Siberians) is mid-facially flatter and more jaw-regressed than the mainland Southeast Asian group (Vietnamese, Cambodian, Thai, Malay, Myanmar), and then I also presented data from the lesser Sunda Island group (Bali, Timor, Sumbawa, Flores people). Hanihara’s paper presents data on the individual populations named plus a lot more. The very fact that I am citing a paper where the populations of East Asia are divided into many more groups than what you have grouped them into argues against your accusation that I am committing some kind of classification error. The geographic trend in East Asia is evident from the data cited.

Brigitte Nielsen is a masculinized woman; I wouldn’t bother invoking allometry. But once again, there are feminine and masculine women in all populations.

You are again bringing in behaviors/psychological make-up into the picture when these are irrelevant to the physical appearance question being addressed within this section. True, the radical feminists you have named do not have counterparts in southeast Asia, but these women also didn’t have counterparts in medieval Europe. What happened within a few centuries to make the European women more masculine? European women did not become more masculine; the Church lost power, society became less male dominated and people became more respecting of individual rights and freedom; the key individuals that initiated this process were men. In the process, several radical feminists came to the limelight in the West, most of the rabidly anti-male ones in the latter half of the twentieth century, but these women remain a very miniscule minority in the general European female population, and many of the prominent radical feminists have been Jewish (Middle Eastern/Southern European equivalent) rather than Nordic, notwithstanding your assertion of greater femininity of Mediterranean women. How reasonable is it to assign greater psychological masculinity to European women in general and especially Nordic women because of a handful of prominent radical feminists among them compared to the relative absence of these women in religion/male-dominated non-European societies?

Why do “Nesid” men like their pedomorphous “Nesid” women? Firstly, the “Nesid” women are not pedopmorphous; none of their allegedly pedopmorphous features have been shown to be a result of pedomorphy by you, and I have already cited evidence refuting the notion of selection for pedomorphous faces among humans, which you have yet to dispute. Besides, whereas “Nesid” women may be too short for Northern European men, they are not too short for “Nesid” men, i.e., there is nothing pedomorphous about their height from the perspective of “Nesid” men. Similarly, whereas “Nesid” women have flatter mid-faces than European women, so do their male counterparts compared to European men, i.e., the mid-facial flatness of “Nesid” women is not childlike from the perspective of “Nesid” men. If heterosexual men had to choose between women with less feminine curves vs. no women, most would take the women with less feminine curves, but this will not mean that they have a preference for women with less feminine curves. “Nesid” men pick the best of what is available to them, which is not to say that the women they pick conform to their highest standards.

There is no consensus among Western men about the greater femininity of “Mongolids.” As anyone can see, they have less feminine curves. Don’t blame media propaganda for most white men not being attracted to “Mongolids.” Media propaganda (ubiquitous fashion imagery) has not succeeded in making heterosexual men attracted to skinniness or masculinization in women. There are innate elements to aesthetic preferences, and the physical appearance of East Asians simply doesn’t interest most white men. Besides, whereas you have mentioned the ridiculous “femininity” portrayed in “Sex in the City,” this show doesn’t depict any type of femininity; if I am not mistaken, a homosexual man wrote the script.

Your comments are worse than useless, and here are additional reasons:

1. You do not seem to have an interest in disseminating anthropological knowledge to the general public. For instance, you use dolichocephalic instead of long-skulled, lepteroprosopic instead of long and narrow faced, macrosomic instead of large bodied and other obscure terminology.

2. You keep citing Knußmann’s book whenever I ask you for evidence. The evidence should exist in the form of numerical data/peer-reviewed journal articles, which is what you need to cite, but you cite a book that does not appear to have an English version, and which I therefore cannot read. Knußmann is unlikely to have made his arguments by conducting a massive amount of unique research specifically for his book. Most of the material in his book should be a literature review. If there is any merit to your portrayal of population differences, you should be able to cite current literature published in journals, but the only journal articles that you have cited are tangential to the discussion. Even numerical data/analysis from Knußmann’s book would be helpful, but you have not provided any such data to back your classification schemes.

3. You show no sign of giving up your idiosyncratic stances. For instance, you assert without any justification whatsoever that the rightmost woman in the image series featuring Brooke Shields is more masculine than the Bali woman you pointed out, and accuse me of being confused about pedomorphosis. Hello? Read the paper by Penin et al. and see clear evidence that the concept of neoteny does not apply to human face shape! Look at the canonical correlations involving Hanihara’s sample and notice that the features you are calling pedomorphic are ancestral features. Once again, note that you have never cited any evidence relating the shorter height of Bali women to greater feminization.

4. You are talking about Nordic women not being very willing to have children, but a quick fertility rate check will reveal the Nordic average to be higher than the European average. For instance, in 1998, the average fertility rate in Europe was 1.5, but in the Nordic nations it was: Iceland (2.0), Norway (1.8), Sweden (1.8), Finland (1.7) and Dennmark (1.7). So how is it possible for the allegedly most masculine European women to have higher fertility than the average for Europeans? The highest fertility was observed in borderline European populations where many people are the equivalent of Third World populations, and in southern European nations not adversely affected by large-scale poverty or general malaise, the fertility rates were Italy (1.2), Spain (1.2) and Greece (1.3). So much for your argument!

5. You accuse me of adopting Boasian and deconstructionist strategies. Your justify labeling my arguments Boasian by virtue of me preventing a “holistic” discussion; for instance, not addressing psychological femininity or your classification schemes. However, a quick reading of the title of this entry will reveal the unambiguous irrelevance of psychological femininity to this discussion. It also doesn’t help that your assertions in this regard are idiosyncratic and poorly informed like your other arguments. Regarding the classification schemes that you have mentioned, it is curious that on the one hand you complain about vested interests removing your terminology from mainstream anthropological literature and then come across as a person wanting to resurrect old terminology/ achieve what exactly? Please the leftist haters of physical anthropology? Here is news for you. Whereas 20th century political events did remove your cherished terminology from mainstream anthropological literature, they did not sabotage anthropological research in the long term. Knowledge of differences and similarities between human populations has never been stronger. I have presented current literature within this section that you, presumably a professor of anthropology, were oblivious to. There is a lot of other interesting anthropological research that you either have no idea where to look for or wouldn’t understand if you encountered it. How do modern physical anthropologists proceed? Take Hanihara’s study as an example. Hanihara presented data on 112 populations but did not bother dividing them into 36 clusters like you have been harping on. If one had to explore population structure, one could use cluster analysis and present discriminant scores (probability of misclassification) to lay to rest any accusations of arbitrary classification. Hanihara presented canonical variates analysis; similar studies may employ other multivariate tools such as Penrose analysis, principal components analysis, MANOVA, Mahalanobis distances, etc. These methods are beyond the understanding of the typical physical-anthropology-hating leftist or the typical person with ulterior motives. Therefore, anthropological research can continue with minimal interference, but then people like you come along to sabotage further research. Attempting to resurrect old typology will create more leftist problems for anthropological research, and is something that is completely useless and unnecessary to advance the field. Why can you not understand this? I am not trying to undermine “holistic” discussion, just trying to avoid a useless discussion.

Regarding deconstructionism, I don’t like deconstructionsts; they are filth. Deconstructionism involves critiquing an argument by questioning the motives of or assigning malicious motives to the author rather than addressing the evidence cited. Where have I done this in the exchange that I have had with you? I have cited plenty of empirical evidence. You, on the other hand, are the one attaching motives to me and ignoring the evidence cited. You have accused me of “Nordish fetishism” and have started wondering whether I am Jewish. So who has been adopting a deconstructionist strategy? I have told you before that Nordic women are overrepresented among high-end models, and the attractive women section simply reflects this, and also that the concept of fetishism applies to non-living objects, not living beings. Besides, I do not have Jewish ancestry and do not identify as a Jew.

6. You have again mentioned the incredible absurdity that if this site’s goals (promotion of feminine beauty) were to be implemented then Northern Europeans would be eliminated and “viragos,” leftists and the Ashkenazim would benefit! I have replied to this absurdity previously but now I also have to ask, are you insane? You have mentioned that you have been promoting Nesid women. What for? To help Northern Europeans?

7. You talk about no distinction between description and prescription in science! This is incredible. So much for the notion of dispassionate research, right? A pursuit of knowledge is an end by itself for some people, and is the essence of science. Science should be distinguished from applied science and engineering. Basing prescriptions on [scientific] knowledge is recommended, but description and prescription remain separate issues.

The discussion here is over. I cannot allow you to continue addressing off-topic issues and absurdities endlessly. I have asked you many times to stop commenting here and email me instead, but you have not heeded my request. Seriously, email me your response if you wish to continue this discussion. My email address can be found on the “email” page; see top-right corner. Please DO NOT leave comments here anymore.

1.) You write that your cited anthropological studies are beyond the understanding of the lefetists. Unfortunately , they are not. Boasians have managed to manipulate successfully documentations, analyzes, interpretations and evaluations in anthropology. Essential among them
were Ashkenazim which as a group have a mean IQ of 115 ,the highest worldwide of any group, but Boasians like Ashley Montagu (aka Israel Ehrenberg), the most popular anthropologist of his time, and Franz Boas , the father of multiculturalism, had a much higher IQ
2.) Who benefits from the real
consequences of this website ?
The Nordish race will have become an insignificant
minority during the 21st century which is a direct consequence of Nordish men pairing with Nordih women, what this site is promoting indirectly.
3.) In this context of my intention to transform the Nordish race or at least a part of it into
another competetive race with Eastern-Asian admixtures, you asked if I am "insane". The pathologization of people who care for the White race is a trick among Jewish leftists,
Freud , Adorno (aka Wiesengrund) and the Frankfurt School, and Boas tried to do so e.g. There is nothing bad in promoting group interests. So the Jews themselves did not adopt the enlightenment and maintained a hyperethnocentric group cohesion until now. My suspicion concerning your site is
justified in any case: there has never been such an abdication of power than this overthrow of the Nordish race that ruled the world in 1930. But I can assure you, that the people responsible for that overthrow will be made responsible in the future. The "patient" may be dead, but the "doctors" will not get away at least.
4.) You cannot understand German, which shows that
you are restircted to about half the important literature in anthropology. I speak five languages, John Randal Baker e.g. understood even more, as his massive "Race" (Oxford University Press, 1974) shows.Additionally you are a victim of the Tolstoy syndrome, you reject to buy the Knußmann
which of course is not e.g. in the library of Congress
due to their effective censorship and "throw-away" system.
5.)You should do an immersive approach concerning the Nesid race, that means to appreciate the femininity from the closest possible distance as I recommended before. In the end the overall femininty is what counts, the overwhelming amout of features are feminine in the Nesid women. Even highschool textbooks in Germany acknowledge this, it is and was commonplace.
6.) Again , I informed two further European capacities in the field whom I showed this thread and who agreed to me smilingly.Again I have to state that we have no animosities towards you.
7.) According to Hartmann's theory of sexuality,
we ask ourselves what kind of scientist you are.
Hartmann predicts a stronger femininity in people who are too zyclothymous to have a
flexible and developping way of thinking ( the "Bewahrungsgesellschaftsmentalität", Claus) and who cling to the Nordish women ideal (a Nazi ideal by the way, just like your insisting on "easy" scientific English terms despite of twisting the anthropological reality).So Adorno was even a bit more efficient in (consciously or unconsciously)twisting reality: he used an unprecedented difficult elaborated style to confuse the poor Nordish men totally.

d’Artagnan: I have repeatedly requested you to stop commenting here. Why do you not heed my request? I don’t want you to trash this site.

Leftist haters of physical anthropology have not been able to sabotage research within this discipline like you assume; the only thing that has happened is that the kind of terminology that you are using has been discarded, but then this terminology is not needed and there is no loss. I have cited some major recent studies within this section that you have been unaware of; there are other interesting studies that you will come across if you bother to read current literature.

If this were a site about physical anthropology I could easily fill it with a lot more recent and interesting studies. For instance, the Boasian school of anthropology has taken devastating blows in recent years. Margaret Mead’s Coming of Age in Samoa has been exposed as fraudulent, the notion of the “noble savage” has been shown to be a way-off myth, a leftist attack on the work of Napoleon Chagnon and James Neel by Patrick Tierney in the Darkness in El Dorado was quickly condemned by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, and Boas’ famous study on ethnicity and plasticity of skull shape has been debunked. Are you aware of such finds? How has this been possible if Boasians have some kind of stranglehold on anthropology like you are implying?

My lack of knowledge of German is not a problem as far as anthropological research is concerned. English is the most widely spoken language in the world. It is highly unlikely that important anthropological papers in non-English languages have not come to the attention of English-speaking anthropologists and then described/summarized in English. I have specified the kind of evidence that would be needed to compare femininity across populations, namely evidence from sex hormone profiles and skeletal studies where confounds are controlled for. If such data exist in a German paper or Knußmann’s book but no English publication, then all you need to do is to scan it and email it to me or host it at and post the links in your comment, but you have not done any such thing. Do not accuse me of ignorance unless you can cite such data.

Regarding censorship, it is unlikely that there is more censorship in the U.S. compared to Germany; at least Germany is a joke when it comes to freedom of speech. Don’t tell me that Knußmann’s book is more unacceptable in the U.S. than in Germany.

I am tired of your repeated insistence without any proof that “Nesid” women are the most feminine. Cite evidence in the form requested or quit saying this. Some of the alleged feminine features in “Nesid” women turn out to be ancestral features; “Nesid” women have less feminine curves and a lower frequency of an hourglass figure compared to Northern European women; you have completely ignored the fact that comparisons regarding psychological masculinity cannot be made unless the level of literacy, women’s freedom and the extent of male domination of society is similar among Northern Europeans and “Nesids”; and you have never cited any evidence that the reduced height of “Nesids” is related to greater feminization.

Your assertion that there are other anthropologists that have gone through this thread and agree with you is a mere assertion. Why should I believe you? The others have not left any comments, let alone comments suggesting that they have the requisite anthropological knowledge.

You have once again resorted to adopting a deconstructionist strategy, now by assuming that I have “stronger femininity” because of the supposed inflexibility of my thought processes and the Nazi Nordic ideal that I subscribe to! How have you made any inference about my unwillingness to reconsider my views? Unless you cite the kind of data that I have requested you will not give me any reason to reconsider my views. The Nazi Nordic ideal notion once again makes a case that you are insane. Millions of white women dye their hair blonde. Is this because they harbor the Nazi ideal? Whites undergoing cosmetic surgery try to acquire facial features closer to those of Northern European norms. Do they harbor the Nazi ideal? Many people in ancient Greece and Rome admired blondeness. Did they harbor the Nazi ideal, too? MC1R data show a recent (< 15,000 years ago) origin and rapid increase in blondeness among Northern Europeans, almost certainly as a result of stronger sexual selection, i.e., by implication a preference for blondeness among a large number of the pre-historic ancestors of Northern Europeans. Did these pre-historic people harbor a Nazi ideal? The Nazi admiration for Nordic features was an admiration that they shared with many Northern and other Europeans at the time and also their ancestors; there is nothing Naziesque about a preference for Nordic features.

If you have problems with Jews, then this is not the place to vent your frustrations with them; do it elsewhere. Curiously, on the one hand, you express concern for whites and lament the loss of power of Northern Europeans compared to the early twentieth century, but on the other hand you express concern that my site will prompt Northern Europeans to have children with Northern Europeans rather than with East Asians! You have to be insane. Mixing Northern Europeans with East Asians will make Northern Europeans disappear in the first generation mixed offspring; since East Asians are much more numerous, they will be largely unaffected by the minor loss of their people to admixture. What kind of madness has made you harbor the absurd notion of increasing the competitiveness of Northern Europeans by mixing them with East Asians? Even if the mixed-population has greater fertility and ethnocentrism, it will not be white, let alone Nordic. Please see a mental health counselor. There are easily well over a 100 million Northern Europeans; if their population shrinks somewhat, you are still looking at an absolutely large number of them. Masculinized Northern European women who do not have children do not produce future feminists to bug you; you should be pleased. Do not comment here; please leave me alone.

You notoriously overlooked the hard evidence I have given before:

Prof. Rainer Knußmann has been continuing the line of reasoning of classical anthropology, at the University of Hamburg, building on the earlier manual of Rudolf Martin and Karl Saller (1956, rev. ed., 1st ed. 1914).Knußmann categorizes 36 distinct human races and some subraces according to physical traits (chapter “Spezielle Rassenkunde(Rassensytematik)”,pp.429-448), and concludes that the Paleomongolid (southern Mongolid) race is an example of paedomorphosis,(i.e., childlike concerning facial traits and body type), while the Nordic race is a "typical masculine one ["Es gibt Rassen, die einen mehr kindhaften (pädomorphen)Habitus bewahrt haben (z.B. Palämongolide,Abb.308 [and as their subrace especially the Nesids with extreme pedomorphous appearance, s. photograph in “Knußmann” of half nude Nesid woman which I propose as a Nesid reference picture , Mr. Holland]),und solche, die in der Ontogenese stärker vorprellen, so daß sie mehr das typische Erwachsenenbild repräsentieren (...)”; “Manche Rassen sind als ganze mehr dem männlichen (z.B. Nordide,Dinaride), andere dem weiblichen Pol (z.B. Mediterranide,Palämongolide) angenähert."p.407.].

John Randal Baker for his part arrives at the same conclusion of paedomorphosis in the Palaemongolids of southeastern Asia (1974)["The somewhat paedomorphous peoples grouped together by Eickstedt as Palaemongolids have a very wide distribution (...)”,p.538]. Baker provides a detailed description of the Mongoliform Sanid bushmen [chapter “The Sanids (Bushmen)”,pp.303-325], and argues that their physical and psychological paedomorphosis hindered them from establishing a more advanced civilization ["Although mankind as a whole is paedomorphous,those ethnic taxa (the Sanids among them) that are markedly more paedomorphous than the rest have never achieved the status of civilization, or anything approaching it, by their own initiative.It would seem that when carried beyond a certain point, paedomorphosis is antagonistic to purely intellectual advance.”,p.324; so an anthropological necessity arises to study the feminine psyche , too, on your site if it is really about “feminine beauty"]. Even the Boasian Ashley Montagu notes in his work that “One result of this is the high frequency of beauty among mongoloid males and females, a beauty of great delicacy (...). The differential action of neoteny has produced some peculiar effects. For example, among the highly neotenized Japanese the males upper and lower jaws have been reduced in size while the teeth have not. The result has created a disharmony in many males in the form of extreme crowding and malocclusion of the teeth.” [Montagu, Ashley (1989) Growing Young N.Y.: McGraw Hill pp. 40]. The majority of biological anthropologists agree that paedomorphous physicality and behavior are closely associated with femininity, and that members of the Asiatic races are more feminine than the Caucasian races.

Secondly, Knußmann draws from Max Hartmann’s theory of relative sexuality in animals and plants (Hartmann, 1956; Chen, 2003).Knußmann writes :” Für die geschlechtertypologische Varationsreihe (M-W-Linie,vgl.Kap.IIIB2a) wurde die Partnerregel aufgestellt, daß ein ganzes M und ein ganzes W zusammenzutreten streben, wobei M und W von Fall zu Fall in verschiedenem Prozentsatz auf die beiden Partner verteilt sein können."(p.456). According to Hartmann, the intensity of sexuality in heterozygous gametes may not be the same for all individuals in a species, but instead may lie on a continuum, ranging from intensely female to intensely male. Furthermore, male gametes of high intensity then tend to unite with female gametes of high intensity. Hartmann’s theory of relative sexuality was based upon study of sexual reproduction in certain isogamous and anisogamous algae (Smith, 1956). But Hartmann was also interested in human sexuality (Chen, 2003). Knußmann, maintaining Hartmann’s theory for humans, reasserts that very masculine men should be attracted to very feminine women, which could explain Caucasian men’s sexual attraction to Asian women. These couples would then be ideal in terms of the “power aspect” of sexuality, in which men have a tendentious instinct for dominance and women for submission. Knußmann believes that this is essential for a stable relationship, in contrast to the Halbkontrastehen (a dominant man with a semi-dominant (virago) woman), which is unstable due to unclear structures of power [Knußmann:"Es gibt Hinweise darauf, daß in mißglückten Ehen (geschiedene oder in Scheidung lebende Partner) keine Heterogamie bezüglich der leptomorph-pyknomorphen Variationsreihe vorliegt, sondern die Halbkontrastehen überdurchschnittlich häufig auftreten.”,p.457].


1. J. R. Baker. (1974) Race. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

2. H.-A. Chen. (2003) Die Sexualitätstheorie und “Theoretische Biologie” von Max Hartmann in der ersten Hälfte des zwanzigsten Jahrhunderts. Sudhoffs Archiv Beiheft, 46.

3. M. Hartmann (1956) Die Sexualität: Das Wesen und die Grundgesetzlichkeiten des Geschlechts und der Geschlechtsbestimmung im Tier- und Pflanzenreich. (Jena, 1943; 2nd ed. 1956)

4. R. Knußmann. (1996) Vergleichende Biologie des Menschen: Lehrbuch der Anthropologie und Humangenetik. Fischer, Stuttgart;ISBN 343725040X,
please buy this book, Mr. Holland, it’s unique

5. R. Martin and K. Saller. (1956) Lehrbuch der Anthropologie in systematischer Darstellung mit besonderer Berucksichtigung der anthropologischen Methoden. Fischer Verlag, Jena.

6. A. Montagu (1989) Growing Young. Bergin and Garvey, New York. 2nd ed.

7. G. M. Smith, 1956. The Role of Study of Algae in the Development of Botany. American Journal of Biology, 43:(7), pp. 537-543

As one can see from Knußmann's 1.edition of his manual , he dimmed down his real opinions on
"asocials" , "Jews " and "race" e.g. due to political correctness.
He was terrorized by leftist-initiated judicial
trials in Hamburg, similar to experiences Rushton and Lynn had.
I hope you mean by "health consellour" not that Jewish psychoanalysis which was falsified and shown a Jewish destruction strategy by Kevin MacDonald in the Culture of Critique(2002).
My advise for you (which you will follow in any case due to the Tolstoy effect;-))is just to go on with your pseudo-scientific Boasian anthropology celebrating Aryan womanhood, the sooner the Whites die out who sponsor this leftist Entartung due to a genetic predisposition shown by Kevin MacDonald.We do not know exactly if the future rulers of the world are 20% Sinid or 60% Nordish or 35% Palaungid. But they will not be sons of those lipstick lesbian Aryan Fräuleins shown on this page.

d’Artagnan: Enough is enough! Please stop commenting here. This is not your site, and your comments are unwelcome.

I have not overlooked any of your evidence; you have simply reiterated what you pointed out previously, which is something that I have already addressed.

A summary of my previous response:


1. This [old] notion of allegedly pedomorphic features in humans, as pointed out by you, is easily dismissed by modern evidence showing what you call pedomorphic facial features to be differential retention of ancestral features, and other evidence showing that the concept of neoteny does not apply to human face shape, with at most part of the regression of the jaw being neotenous, but then the jaw is more protruding in your “more feminine/pedomorphic” East Asian populations such as the “Nesids.”

2. The classification of human populations is not relevant to this discussion. The nature and extent of differences between human populations do not change regardless of what terminology and classification one uses. Some studies that I have cited provide data on individual populations, 112 in Hanihara’s study, i.e., there is no way you can accuse me of lumping together disparate populations and thereby making incorrect conclusions.

3. The algae stuff is irrelevant. One obviously expects the central tendency in a sexually dimorphic sexually reproducing population to be for the masculine to prefer the feminine. It does not follow though that Northern European men should somehow have any special attraction toward the supposedly more feminine East Asian women; most don’t, which is not attributable to media propaganda; after all, media propaganda has not made heterosexual white men aesthetically appreciate skinny and masculine high-fashion models. Besides, you have repeatedly ignored point #1 in this comment, the less feminine curves of East Asian women, evidence of less feminine testosterone-to-estradiol ratios among women in East Asiatic populations, and not provided any evidence that the shorter height of “Nesids” or equivalent is a consequence of greater feminization.

4. This site is about feminine beauty as it pertains to the external physical form. Therefore, the feminine psyche is irrelevant to it.

I will also address some other points:


A. Scientific truths are not a matter of opinion but of evidence. Many anthropologists in the past were in agreement with some of your stated beliefs, and you tell me that so are some current anthropologists such as Rainer Knußmann, but a scientific agreement among scientists is along the lines of “the best interpretation given the evidence so far is...” Therefore, what really matters is the evidence behind a notion, not a statement that scientists agree about this notion. You have not cited current evidence to support the notions held by you that I am disputing, and have been unable to refute evidence to the contrary.

B. Healthy heterosexual relationships are about cooperation/love/friendship/respect, not dominance-submission. Normal women will let their male partners act in a dominating role when necessary.

C. Attributing the lack of civilization to pedomorphy is absurd. Many human populations that are nowhere as pedomorphic by your reasoning as the Khoi-San people or “Nesids” have never indigenously achieved a civilization, either. Besides, you said that humans as a whole are pedomorphic compared to the ancestral species, but humans have achieved civilization whereas the ancestral species have not.

D. There are no lipstick lesbians shown on this page.

This is a useless discussion. Now you have come up with a new ad hominem, accusing me of espousing pseudo science when the reality is that you are stuck in decades-old literature and are unable to understand current literature, let alone refute it.

Your fantasy about a mixed Northern European-East Asian population ruling the world is not going to come true. Most Northern Europeans have no attraction to East Asians. Besides, why should any ethnicity rule over others? Let each ethnic group have its own homeland and rule over its own affairs.

You are trashing this thread with the same arguments over and over gain, ignoring my repeated requests to stop commenting here and email me instead. Please stop. I know that it doesn’t hurt you. After all, you are hiding behind a pseudonym. But, I have had enough of your arguments. Set up your own website and write all you want there.

1.) concerning women on somatic sexual dimorphism: "besitzen ein grazileres, rundlicheres Gesicht mit weniger vorpsringendem Profil und eine geringere Stirnneigung." "have a more gracile, more round face
with a less protruding facial profile." Knußmann, manual, 2.ed.,p.227,ISBN 3-437-25040-X; ibidem (page 232 ): "in vielen Merkmalen weicht die Frau vom
Mann in derselben Richtung ab wie das Kind vom Erwachsenen" "in a multitude of respects women are similar to children, in contrast to male humans";
e.g. the rounder faces of children see p. 174
2.) As the Nesids are much more feminine the most typical race concerning the Mongolid-typical paedomorphosis, you "lumped" together the data to present a much more masculine Mongolids ;
Knußmann (p. 413) presents the Nordid race as the most typical Europids , so by the way only those
should be compared as typical Europids concerning
paedomorphosis; why are only European masculinized
women on your page , haven't you found e.g. Nesids? Why do you not put my Nesid examples as
masculinized on your page ?
You say that being not masculine does not mean that someone is feminine. Is there a tertium ? Funny.Again, your strategies were:
a) denial of the equation femininity-paedomorphosis
b) denial of the distinct about 36 human races
c) denial of the fact that one should only compare
the most typical (sub)races
d) claiming some features on allometry , but what
is with the irreducible ones ?
e) claiming obscure origins of traits (Pleisticene, primitivity) to avoid a necessary classification on the
feminine - masculine scale
f) using ad hominem attacks, calling me , a high-profile anthropologists with more than 50 years of experience a mentally-ill, which in your Nazi-esque worldview means gassing of course
g) denial of the femininity of the Nesids-Mongolids which is an insult to Asian womanhood. Take a bit Baker and then you can say:
Look, not only are the Asians inferior races not
able to produce something like the 4 autothonous Europid civilizations ,but even their gals are masculine (a typical Germanic feature by the way which underlay Germany's WW2 efforts according to Jean Ph. Rushton). Are they subhumans ?
h) denial of a Jewish nssubversion in the social sciences which nearly destroyed all good anthropology. Hanihara is obviously in the Boasian
tradition who does not feel the paedormorphosis
flattering for the Japanese
i) relationsships are about power and the wish to penetrate or to be penetrated.The virago promisuity
trickily masks the higher homosexual tendencies;
"she will behave submissive when necessary". Very interesting . When the physical and psychical powers of "her"are not sufficient to subtly terrorize her environment, she will make use of a
brain-washed leftist , who will do for her what "she" dictates
j) the Nazis had long-time plans to breed an Eurasian superrace (see e.g. Ahnenerbe TIbet expedition) , the documents are top-secret and not catalogued at all in the NARA or elsewhere . As I have these original documents , I can tell you , that even the Nazis knew about the dangers of the Nordic viragos in the long-run

d’Artagnan: To respond to your first point, I have already mentioned that the female skeleton is closer to that of children on multiple counts compared to the male skeleton, but this does not imply that there is anything pedomorphic about the adult female skeleton. The process of sexual maturity makes both men and women deviate from children; the deviation is just greater for men.

Regarding your second point, I have told you many times that I have used a study presenting data on 112 populations, which is a grouping that is much more detailed than the 36 groupings you have been talking about. I have mentioned the names of the individual populations that I have addressed; the study presents the data on individual populations throughout East Asia. Quit accusing me of lumping too many populations, thereby leading to incorrect conclusions.

Apart from citing literature showing what you call pedomorphic features to be differential retention of ancestral features, thereby also partly undermining your notion of humans being more pedomorphic than the ancestral species, I have also mentioned larger faces and larger jaws in East Asiatic populations, which hardly sound pedomorphic by your reasoning. Note that I have specifically cited data on the “Nesids” having larger jaws and larger teeth in spite of their smaller size.

As to why I have not shown masculinized “Nesid” women, haven’t you understood yet that this site is targeting a Western audience? Why should I illustrate my arguments for “Nesid” women, too? You do it at your own website.

My response to points a-j by you:


a. Denial of the femininity-paedomorphosis equation – There is no denial of reality; just a refutation of your absurd ideas.

b. Denial of the distinct about 36 human races – I have not denied this notion; I have ignored it; it is irrelevant to this part of the site.

c. Denial of the fact that one should only compare the most typical (sub)races - What in the world? One can compare any group with any other, and of all possible comparisons, one will involve the groups that you would consider to be “the most typical (sub)races.” But, the latter has not proven your notions about femininity/pedomorphosis, etc. The most masculine East Asians, according to you, are found in Northeast Asia, but they also have the flattest mid-faces among East Asians, and it is curious how they can be more feminine/pedomorphic on this count than the “Nesids.”

d. Claiming some features on allometry, but what is with the irreducible ones? - This is nonsense. Allometry refers to shape change as a function of size, and it has not been an issue in our discussion other than me saying that to assess shape variation resulting from masculinization-feminization, it is necessary to control for confounds such as allometry.

e. Claiming obscure origins of traits (Pleisticene, primitivity) to avoid a necessary classification on the feminine-masculine scale - Obscure claims? I have cited evidence; fossil evidence for more or less flattened mid-faces in Late Pleistocene samples from around the world, and fossil evidence plus canonical variates analysis for variation along the ancestral-to-derived discriminant.

f. Ad hominem: An Ad hominem argument involves attacking the opponent's character rather than answering his argument. I have extensively responded to your arguments with current citations and plenty of evidence. Many of your arguments justify questioning your sanity. For instance, when you, concerned about white preservation, argue that this site will make Northern Europeans disappear quickly because it will prompt Northern European men to end up with Northern European women rather than East Asian women, it is reasonable to question your sanity. I have also had to repeat many of my arguments in response to your raising the same points over and over again. I have also asked you to stop commenting here repeatedly, but you have not listened. In your latest comment, you have accused me of believing Asians to be inferior and subhuman! Therefore, is it unreasonable to question your sanity? Evidence-based refutation of an opponent’s argument followed by questioning his sanity does not constitute ad hominem.

Your arguments on the other hand qualify as ad hominem. You have been unable to refute my citations, which are much more current than yours, and have accused me of espousing pseudo science, suspected me to be a Jew, and accused me of harboring a “Nordish fetish” and having a Nazi-esque worldview (which supposedly inclines me to want to gas the mentally ill), among other things.

For your information, much as you cite being a high-profile anthropologist with 50 years of experience, scientific arguments are made by citing evidence, not credentials, and your evidence is atrocious and outdated.

g. Denial of the femininity of the Nesids-Mongolids which is an insult to Asian womanhood - I have done no such thing. I have pointed out that masculine and feminine women exist in all populations, and that your notion of “Nesids” being the most feminine does not follow from the evidence that you have cited, as evident from research much more current than your citations.

h. Denial of a Jewish subversion in the social sciences which nearly destroyed all good anthropology - I have said that political events in the twentieth century removed the kind of terminology you favor, but that this did not affect physical anthropology research in the long run. I have cited a lot of cool anthropological research within this site that you have been unaware of, and there is a lot more where it comes from, but understanding these papers requires a technical background that you obviously lack and thankfully also the typical physical-anthropology-hating leftist. Physical anthropology has flourished. You have been stuck in decades-old literature and have missed the progress of the field.

Hanihara did not fudge up the data on East Asian skulls; their mid-facial flattening is evident in his data.

i. Relationships are about power and the wish to penetrate or to be penetrated. - The wish to penetrate/be penetrated is related to sexuality, not a relationship; one can indulge in a sex act without being involved in a relationship. To the extent that a relationship is about power, it is about a healthy balance of power between the partners. Once again, do not forget love, friendship, respect, trust, cooperation and other elements of long-term successful relationships.

j. The Nazis had long-time plans to breed an Eurasian super race - As a first approximation this is nonsense. I will only believe this if I see evidence.

I know you have a problem with “viragos,” and I hope that they come after you. It will be cool to see you being spooked by them. My advice to you is that the proper way of dealing with “viragos” is to bitch-slap them when they give you trouble.

Anyway, the comments facility here is provided as a privilege to you, and you have abused it more than enough. You do not have a right to leave comments here. You have bothered me too much. The best way for you to disseminate your ideas is to set up your own website and promote it. If you hadn’t frustrated me and were a knowledgeable anthropologist I could have helped you set up a website and put in my own contributions. Imagine a website dedicated to explaining physical anthropology to the masses in layperson terms, richly illustrated with pictures like this would be a cool site, but you will have to do this on your own/find someone else to do it. Goodbye Mr. d’Artagnan.

i looked over the evidence in your analysis of facial femininity among various races, and while you commented on rubustness, you failed to see that ---some of the robust fsces were overly so for a woman, and men and women in these ethnicities tend to have a different shaped jawline and cheekbone. their noses differ a lot. deep set eyes area sign of masculinity in many places. african/ asian men tend to have wider, thinner mouths. the women tend to have fuller mouthes. does that make sense?the feminine bone structure in a good chunk of non white societies is the diamond shape. examples range from zhang ziyi, lucy liu, iman, and even alek wek. the jaw protrusion on some of the women was unfeminine. alek's is---the other black women would be less so. if you like, i can send you some photos of women to give you a better idea of some feminine non-western faces.
but as a side note--beyonce looked extremely feminine facially before the nose job. so did halle berry. note their eye shape (slightly larger, less round), small chin, and wide set cheekbones, shorter nose. while width connotes europeanness. length deals with masculinity.

Kristin: I am not able to understand what you are trying to say. Width implying Europeanness? What is this? Anyway, Beyonce Knowles’ photos shown reveal a more masculine-looking woman before the nose job.

what i am implying is that to people used to seeing ethnic faces , the width of a nose has nothing to due w/ masculinity. therefore, beyonce to many, was feminine and pretty before her nose job. to many people, a long nose is masculine. i think the indicators of femininity yo look for in fces are pretty schewed towards whites, and i would suggest pulling aside someone who appreciates women of color to better understand/differentiate the 'robustness' of an ethinic face vs. a white masculine face---because ther IS a difference.
the concept of looking for fine features only applies to eurocentric communities. there are just ways that people in other societies measure beauty. i am not being judgemental, since i stumble in this respect sometimes--as i am most used to european faces. however, i have detected that weakness and made steps to fix it. i as offering you some help.
for the health and maximum impact of the site, i suggest you broaden your ability to appreciate the facial femininity of non-european women.

Kristin: Here are the two pictures of Beyonce Knowles that I posted: Pic 1, Pic 2. On the left in both pictures, she looks masculine because of overall face shape, and I am not saying this in reference to European norms. My argument is not that broad nose equals masculine. Just look at masculinized Alessandra Ambrosio, extensively addressed within this site; she has a narrow nose. On the other hand, masculinization does make the nose broader. Knowles’ nose job has helped her look more feminine.

Mr. Holland,

I must agree with Kristein Huggins that your selection of pictures depicting the African race is biased. I have no problem with your personal preference for Anglo-Saxon/Nordic traits. However, in all truth and fairness any well-read, well-travelled individual will know that people of African descent do not normally look the way you have depicted. And no legitimate study would compare pictures of glamorized fashion models (who have an idea of how posture and diet among other things affect their appearance), with outdated photographs of persons unexposed to such ideas. That alone has cast aspersions on the validity of your study.

Further more we may want to examine the possibility that the glamour models have breast implants as have become the norm today. No one can take your word that they don't or my word that they do. But the fact is that Breast augmentation is commonplace in the glamour fasion industry.

Additionally it is a well known fact among any supplier of women's clothing that the average proportions of British and most Eastern European women including Nordic regions has a significantly less defined waist than that of some ethnicities. Thus there is no reason that you should take the exception for white beauty, as exemplified by the glamour models with abnormally large buttocks adn severly arched backs to make that the rule for that race (Sally Todd looks like a man). Nor should you take exagerated photographs of ONE tribe and stereotype the entire Afican race. As a well-travelled women's clothing supplier, my obervation is that most African women do not look like that.

Mr. Holland it is my objective outlook that make me wonder what your agenda is. While your exposition on homosexuality and body form wants to convince me, I am dissuaded by your apparent thrust to prove your notions of European beauty as superior. Additionally most of your pictures of "well- formed" white women are from porn sites. Hence your arguments lack a suffiently sound scientific basis for me to hold on to.

Nevertheless, it made for an interesting read.

Martina: Sub-Saharan Africa is full of the kind of women I have shown in this section. The pictures are merely illustrative examples and they depict a variety of ethnicities without any argument that they represent all of sub-Saharan Africa. The arguments are not based on the pictures but on the anthropological data cited, which makes it clear that the average differences between sub-Saharan African women and European or Northeast Asian women are striking.

The very first page shows how one could argue for or against the possibility of objectively comparing the attractiveness of people from different ethnic groups by showing pictures depicting reduced differences or striking contrasts, respectively. This is done to make the case that it is necessary to refer to the anthropological literature to answer the central question. These pictures are not part of the argument.

There are some old pictures on the other pages, but they are merely illustrating what the anthropological data show. This section includes illustrative examples comprising of glamour models of sub-Saharan African ancestry. The African women shown either have a healthy body mass or a body mass comparable to the comparison in an illustrative example. The only exception to the latter is on the first page where there is a collage depicting backside protrusion, but then this collage is not part of the argument, as noted above.

Regarding breast implants among glamour models, some of them have it, but if these women pose nude, then it is typically easy to tell whether they have breast implants since one gets to see their breasts from multiple angles.

What ethnicities have more "defined" waists, on average, compared to Northern and Eastern European women? How does Sally Todd look like a man? If you have pictures of her as a young adult where she looks like a man, then I'd be very interested in them.

You question my agenda because of my attempt to prove that European beauty is superior? Have you read this section or just looked at the pictures? If you read the section, you will encounter the conclusion that it is not possible to objectively compare the attractiveness of individuals from different ethnic groups. In other words, it cannot be asserted that European beauty or for that matter any other ethnic beauty is superior to others because of the absence of objective criteria that one could use to make this assertion.

Using women from porn sites does not undermine any argument here. After all, the issue is how the women look rather than where their pictures have been sourced from. Many pictures have been sourced from sites depicting artistic nudity but no pornography. Sometimes a high degree of nudity is unavoidable if one is to address the nature of aesthetics. In addition, the reason why many women in the attractive women section are nude models is because there are few alternatives at this time.

WTF! This website is absurd! The naked girl is in bad need of some sun, and some lipo!

oh, the one at the top of the page? Yeh, 4 real. She is nasty looking, and her ass looks like a fat sows!Sueeeey! Hehehehehehe!

She's ugly, but she sure is PROUD! Hahahahahaa!

I think these chicks on here are lesbo!They like gawking at others girls bodies!

Well she sure better not pose for playboy, unless of course she provides a barf bag! LOL!

Just to let everyone know the kind of supported "evidence" Erik uses...
Check out the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of Top 40 Racists and White Nationalists to watch out for:

Jean-Philippe Rushton, who Erik references from, is listed as such..and due to the tenure system they can't really get rid of this dude.The American Association for the Advancement of Science was outraged by his "research". His research is often conducted at "malls" (wow just like those women who ask you to take a survey...advanced techniques let me tell ya)

The guy has been putting out bogus studies correlating brain size to penis size and other useless studies to "prove" whites are superior. Just thought your readers should know that the "studies" Erik looks at are conducted by white supremacists. I'm wondering if you'll actually leave this comment up though..I think your readers should be informed.

Sidhatzer4ever: Where have I used Rushton to support my arguments? Read carefully; D’Artagnan cited Rushton and I critiqued the evidence. Besides, using the “guilt by association” argument is a logical fallacy. You haven’t critiqued any of the studies or the synthesis.

Rushton is a white supremacist? LOL! He has long maintained that Northeast Asians are more intelligent than whites. The SPLC organization is a joke.

Erik : U know why I always againt in many of your beauty concepts? such as high-arched eyebrows, small flat nose, chubby round face, narrow small eyes, flat forhead, no chin, no eyelids are feminine and pretty?
because I don't think all of what u state as feminine features'd be what general caucasian women have. on the contrary what north east asian tend to have what u find it pretty.

anyway please take a look at this picture below? can u tell me what's nationality she is?

after u take a look at this picture. I guess her type of face is what u find it pretty and very feminine? I'd like to tell u something, 3 years ago I've been to malasia. one day I was searching a picture of on flickr. and I find the pictures of this blonde girl, a sudden my girlfriend sister walk in and seen the pictures I was looking on pc. she asked me 'who's that girl? is she japanese which dyned blond hair?
u see erik? the caucasian with narrow small eyes, sall nose etc. the asian people find them look like people from north east asia.

now take a look at this picture.

all this girls are japanese.

just one of them on this pic is celeb. the least are not also I wanted to tell u I have been to japan also and I can tell u that in japan has the fashion called gothic lolita, the girls wearing a cloth like a doll, dyned hair blond, color contact lens etc. u could see many of the girls look like that in hirajuku. I'd liek to tell u that the japanese with blond hair, coloring eyes look freak for european people but also not much of them look quite like your white women concept as well. but not look like the beautifull white women like angelina joli,
anne hathaway or kate backinsale. those girls have strong character of caucasian face in my thinking, their bigset round eyes, high nose bridge, long chin and tall body.

: Sorry I'd like to say not small amount of japanese girl which dyned blond hair and wear color contact lense could fit your feminine beauty's concept.

Nice stunt, ladies

But I'm not buying it

That's creeping Resemblance Nominal-ism and has been thoroughly refuted

De wanderer : however those girls dyned blond hair and wear color contact lense because wanted to look caucasian and they are look freak but still they are cute that's for sure.

Oh forgotten the stunning one.

I find that the far east asian always look cute in anyway, however they got the fake hair and eyes' color.

Erik : What do u mean by
"Southeast Asian Nicobarese sample shows the flattest frontals??" how many south east asian have u meet? from the scale seems the person who make it uses the biases. it seems that the japanese is the most closing to caucasian than any part of asia. which I find it's totally fault. I have been to japan, their people tend to have flat face and flat frontal than people in south east asia and they have very small eyes. the beautifull japanese u see on tv. are the result of plastic surgery and some that is real pretty are just afew among the celebraties. I know that japanese got nicer skin than south east asian because it's cold so most of japanese are white and have rosacea cheeks but I don't think they have lesser flat frontal than south east asian.

u can take a look at the thai part caucasian children. they tend to look like caucasian 85-100 percent. on the contrary the far east asian part caucasian are look like euresian (celtral asia),latino or native american Indian because they have the inner eyelids fold.

u can take a look at a picture of my thai part german niece. she looks 100 percent caucasian with big blue eyes. ( take a look at it quikly before I removed it off from this site because I don't think her parents wanted their daugther's picture on here)

And now take a look at this boy part japanese part caucasian. in my openion I think he looks like 90 percent chinese for me even if he is part caucasian.

And I don't believe when someone say that the people in the west of china where closing to russia tend to have double eyelids. I'd say those who are chinese even with the big eyes still do not have double eyelids. u could see the distant between the eyebrow and eyes are too wide and flat. and those in the west of china who has double eyes, the most overall face tend to look like arab, not china. and they are the remnant of arab people that moved to central asia so I don't believe when someone say that those people in the west of china are chinese because they do not look like chinese but arab.

Erik : said "Population variation with respect to the extent of flatness of the orbital (eye socket) region in the transverse plane is shown below" from the chart again, japanese people seems to has eye socket than south east asia?? this is very funny beyond believe.

Take a look at this picture of south east asian kid vs. japanese kid. u could clearly see that south east asian have shape face and eyes, nasal like caucasian people only one thing that different is just the skin color. and japanese kid has flat face and no eyelids.

I want to share abit of my experience that I've been to japan. u could clearly see none of the predestrian girls without artificial hair's colors. there even have the special women boutique that sale the clothing of vintage, babydolls and lolita style. which I do not think in europe or anywhere else in this world'd have a girls ( very modest and gentle one) wearing the cloth like a princess walking on the street. but in japan it's very common, especially in diganyama. a lot of girls wearing cloth like european girls in 18 century., curling blond hair and have coloring eyes.

u also could look at this site, it's the shop in japan that salling such a dresses and accessories for those girls.

Hi, I am south Asian Hindu. According to my taste or opinion Northern/ Central Europeans (Both Western and Eastern) and North East Asians are the most attractive races. And by attractive I mean men and women, children, young and old all. Among East Asians I would say that the Japanese are the most attractive ethnic group but Koreans, Chinese, Tibetans etc... are close by. Among whites, the differences are not that great but Scandinavians and some Slavs may stand out as the most attractive people. I find Aboriginal Australians/ Papuans the least attractive of all humans. Black Africans are the second most repulsive race in my opinion and all the other races are in between.

I just do not know why I feel this way. I think this preference is inborn.

What is strange is both these races are high IQ races. Thus in my opinion both these high IQ races are the most attractive. Secondly I find the sense of aesthetics of these two civilizations (Europe and Far East) the most attractive as well. I mean traditional European art, traditional European architecture etc...Same with the North East Asians. It is as if attractive races create the most attractive civilizations. The most attractive races in my opinion are blue eyed blonds. I find traditional African art repulsive in nature. Strange eh...

I always wonder how many people share the same opinion/ taste as me?

I do not find japanese to be attactive for me, I do not like their eyes and their flat shape face. I find south east asian to be more prettier. it's fuck ;O( that eric always put my arguements into not display when I tried to prove that by pictures. However as long as erik can not give the good reason to my question so many of his articles couldn't consider as the information for all audiens. it's like telling lies to other people don't u, erik?
such as some article u say the japanese has everythings close to caucasian than other asian. and everone reading here find that as the fact? so it's like u lie other people then when they walk on the street and seen japanese part caucasian look like 100 percent japanese awhile the Indian part caucasian or south east asian part caucasian look 100 percent caucasian with blonder hair and lighter eyes than erik.

I don't know what for the other people tast but for me I find deepest set eyes, long chin, curl hair to be more prettier than straight hair, inner eyelids fold and flat forhead. some people find the white skin to be more pretty no matter shape face and ugly slant eyes or flat forhead. I prefer women with deepest eyes and abit projection forhead, narrow long face. I hate chubby women and this different than many Indian and some arabs find chuby face japanese and white skin to be pretty. sdome japanese girls think they could be caucasian because of the white skin but with inner eyelids fold and chubby face could make them look more caucasian when they dyned blonde hair and color contact lense.
I don't think they look like caucasian, on the contrary when the pakistani girl with tanned skin make up her face with white powder and western style. she appears to look 100 percent caucasian for me than the japanese with fake blonde hair or fake blue eyes. what should I say about this when I do not like inner eyelids fold. it appears to be like the alian eyes for me.

I do not anti japanese and I don't thik they have higher IQ than other races like Indian, arabs or south east asian. but just many factors that seem to make them enthutiatic to have high Iq. such as the earthquck often or have no land and food enough. awhile people in south east asia and Indian have good natural resouces and don't have to rush their life because even they don't do anything they do not die because or starvation. I have been visited japan and everythings are high technology but I don't like many of their cultures that seem to be like wide people for me such as they eatting food with loud voice (by traditional it because delicious) and manythings that I find the culture of arab and Indian people, Iranian to be more higher and beautifull.

Pardon to the mother of both girls below I pressed their daugthers' pictures here.
This picture is a picture of arab little girl and her mom, both look nordic caucasian without any daubt. and I sure all of u on here also think the same.


Thisd one is the girl part northern native american Indian and caucasian. she looks 100 percent caucasian for me and why? I think because native american indian people are look like euresian people from ussr so their kids from part caucasian tend to look 100 percent caucasian.

and this one is my niece german part thai. she looks also 100 percent caucasian. I believe it because south east asian people such as thais or burmeses are hybrid and if u were thai and visit Uzbekistan or some where in central asia, u will find many people there that look not much different from people in south east asia. however, I have seen also the original thai girl with flat nose like australoid people, dark skin and small eyes dosen't look like majority of south east asian that have beautifull eyes and face. but her daugther part german is also looks 100 percent caucasian and much prettier than japanese-caucasian girl with very small eyes and inner eyelids fold. which her japanese mother dose look fine like japanese superstar.

My german part thai niece she very beautifull girl.

and now take a look at japanese part caucasian. I find he looks like japanese more than caucasian. this due to japanese has strong character of inner eyelids fold. however, I find his kid to be cute.

Last one. u could notice the origianl south east asian girl seems to look more caucasian than the original japanese girl which I find she is cute and chubby but she isn't beautifull little girl in my openion when comparing to the south east asian girl with duble eyelids and oval shape face.

Dude... you're destroying the Ladies’ Self-Esteem

Stop it. Now.

And. I. Really. Mean. It.

what do you think of her..

Thanks Maryam she is so cute, can u post more of her picture? what's her name?

You have a point here……I really just don’t know if the people working behind those beauty pageants would agree with your opinions!

I would like to know whether you consider these women to be feminine.
Melyssa Ford who probably has white ancestry

Melyssa Ford Melyssa Ford

Esther Baxter who, to my knowledge, does not have white ancestry

Esther Baxter Esther Baxter

Vida Guerra, who has an unappealing face but a marvelous figure

Vida Guerra

I would also like to know your stance on this article:

The unfairness in the ethnic comparisons lies in the fact that most of the European models are just that--models. The pictures of the "natives" (i.e. non-whites) are not glamorized or ideal, they are just random women. In case you haven't noticed, there are plenty of average and outright unattractive white females (some of which you've posted on this website and labeled beauties).

There is beauty in all races, and despite the centuries of brainwashing, whites do not have a monopoly on beauty. So please try to grow past your superiority complex before your life is spent.

I would additionally like to comment on your page listing the ethnic (i.e. non-white) celebrities who have undergone plastic surgery.

Never mind the fact that the vast majority of white celebrities have ALSO had plastic surgery, are you not aware of recent history? Of say the last 400 years? Europeans have dominated this world. They have oppressed, enslaved, and annihilated entire people. The world has been at the mercy of whites for centuries. Now, knowing that, is it really a wonder why Europeans and their ideas about everything--from politics to beauty--dominate?!?!?

If you wish to perpetuate bigotry and hate then continue on your current path.

Ethnic celebrities alter their features in an effort to appeal to Euro-centric white audiences. Their own people generally aren't going to disown them for trying to fit in a white world, no matter their disappointment.

This is one of the more pathetic sites I've ever come across. I'm being very generous when I say the webmaster is pseudo-intellectual using pseudo-science, there are so many holes in his thesis and findings he would be laughed off the planet if presented this crap site to actual scientist or scientific publications. Thanks, I haven't laughed this hard in a while.

I looked at the page in question and Erik has chosen photos that compare beauty in a fair and objective manner, so your critisism is not fair. This is just another case of a malcontent non-white who finds it impossible to accept the fact that white Nordic beauty is the standard that other women try to emulate through plastic surgery, bleaching of skin and hair, contact lenses, and so forth.

I always laugh at these accusations of bias coming from non-whites browsing this site. Apparently, unless someone compare photos of very plain white women and beauty queen pictures of other races - preferably racially mixed women purporting to show Asian-, Indian- and black beauty - they are not fair and impartial to the non-whites.

Throughout history white Nordic/Germanic women have been aesthetically the most pleasing to the eye for most men. They are more feminine, delicate and refined than the coarse, robust and primitive-looking black woman, mongoloid-looking and physically underdeveloped Asian woman, and all the ethnic sub-races within these groups. They also have angelic colors, blonde or red hair, blue- and blue-green eyes, milky white skin that blushes, unlike the dead white-green-yellow color of Asians, and this has attracted and fascinated men of all races ever since they first laid eyes on them.

Men in general are very generous and find beauty in all kinds of women, and that's how it should be. If they HAVE to choose they will most often choose the white Nordic type, however. Other women know this, and the envy and hostility they have towards Nordic white women is very apparent on this site.

There are beautiful women in all ethnic groups, but genereally speaking most of them will need white/Nordic blood in order to become even more appealing, whereas the white, Nordic woman does not need to be mixed with other ethnic groups or races. She is often more beautiful in pure form. That is the difference, and it has angered other women throughout history, who feel they don't measure up to the ideal that men prefer.

Oh Emily Darling
Thank you for answering my Q about why white women are going crazy for ugly black men!
So in other words your justifying men of other races finding your Nordic women most attractive. You see by saying that your doing more harm to your own race! So in other words your saying Black, Hispanic, South European, Arab men should flock to Scandanavia and hook up with these blond angelic beauties. Sadly the progeny of this mixing will not produce the likes of the Nordic mother.
Darling they may be the most beautiful but also the "stupidest" in the world....I guess the dumb blond "phrase" applies?
Your women are well known for their "openness" and it is by their pea brains that the world population of whites is dropping! They don't want to breed anymore and the ones that do seem to be too fascinated by the media/porn hyped combination of white girl with black guy. Pity Emily speaking for all men and making them realize that Nordic women are the most womenly is working against your people. After all any man wants the "best woman" he can get? which is so easy these days.
And if you think only ugly, fat, retarded white girls go for black guys think again. I wonder what the Germanic Hiedi found appealing in Seal? off course there are thousands of other examples....
Sorry Emily

Wishing they could look like this...


..when they instead look like this...

Chinese cheerleaders Chinese cheerleaders

Envy is a bitch. I'm sorry, too..for you. ;)

"Never mind the fact that the vast majority of white celebrities have ALSO had plastic surgery"

There is a huge difference that you overlooked. White celebrities and whites in general don't have plastic surgery in order to look like a different race. Blacks and Asians do it because they want to look less black, Asian or Indian. They want to appear more white than they actually are.

Asians for example, IN Asia, are crazy about plastic surgery. Plastic surgery is booming in Asia and it is mostly geared towards making people look less Asian. There is even a term for what people there aspire to look like.. Eurasians. Eurasians is some kind of new "race" or look, a mixture of Asian and Caucasian, that is apparently more appealing to Asians who don't like their mongoloid traits themselves.

The problem with Asian/Caucasian race mixing is that it does nothing for OUR race. White people don't benefit from this. They "pollute" our small gene pool in order to look more attractive themselves, offering nothing of value in return. They are so many and can afford this admixture, but we can't. As a race Nordics/ Germanics are becoming more and more rare because of this mixing.

Racemixing going overboard does nothing for our cultures and identities. What if we mixed all cats or dogs, all races that we love, turning them into one race. How boring would that be first of all, and would we prefer just one race of cat and dog in the name of equality? Why should we do it to humans when we find it unacceptable to do it to our animals?

Swedish and Asian young people;

Swedish couples and Asian couple

Local cheerleaders in Sweden,

Swedish cheerleaders Swedish cheerleaders Swedish cheerleaders

These are cheerleaders at the Olympics in Beijing. Is this the best China has to offer, and how many people are there in China compared to Sweden? I think Asian women are extremely overrated. Some can look very good - especially if not 100% Asian - but most of them don't look anywhere nearly as good as Nordic people do.

Chinese cheerleaders

People please ignore Emily! She has given up "debating" with me because she sees a losing battle hehe
Emily why are you blaming Asians for diluting your race? Are you really that blind and retarded? What about all your Nordic men that themselves are running after Asian women? surely they must like something?
What about your women who like Black men? Aren't you guys "polluting" your own gene pool? Come on with such beauty there has definitely been a loss of the brain? Otherwise why would such beautiful people not want to produce equally/more beautiful people?
So stop preaching to other people and preach to your own women who are coming onto and obsessed with black men!
If you want proof i got lots of it!
Also Darling i am the only one that can show your dirt here hehehe. Anything you throw at me i can take! Can you?

I'm not putting blame on one specific group. I am telling how it is. It takes two to tango, naturally. The result is what it is, and I don't like the result. Why should I? Asian (dominant) admixture is clearly damaging my race. By the way, you seem unable to write here without provoking and resorting to personal attacks.

Attacking your opponent instead of the arguments is a sign of weakness. You can't be older than 15. Your immaturity shines through your comments.

The fact that Asian genes are hurting my race is not something I take lightly. I think the Nordic race is a beautiful and unique one that deserves to be protected. Some men here import Asians because they are easy to control, dominate and also abuse. Therefore it's important to inform people.

Regarding black men - clearly an obsession of yours - this is not a major concern in Scandinavia. Maybe it is wherever you are. Women here overwhelmingly prefer white men. Black men with Scandinavian women is very rare here.

Half-Asian Swedish woman with damaged Nordic traits and clear Asian traits, resulting in an odd and unflattering mixture;

half Asian - half Swedish woman

Same woman with Swedish man,

half Asian - half Swedish woman with Swedish man

Their child, still very much Asian in type, in spite of the father being Nordic and the mother probably half-Asian, or less. This sort of thing cannot go on forever in such a small population without some serious damage being done.

Of course Asians love this. This kid will look much better than the 100% Asians do, but Nordics get the mongoloid features and a damaged race. I hope more people here will see this degeneration process and take it into account because it really is a shame.

half Asian - half Swedish woman with child fathered by a Swedish man


Personally I think you are a degenerate. I hope you are not exploiting that family to prove a point on this disgusting website. I was actually going to take pictures of women from China and women from Sweden off of myspace and compare them for the purpose of this Asian vs. Nordic discussion. I decided I would click on random pages in the browse number menu and pick pictures from those random pages. I got some very beautiful Asians and some very hideous ones. Same with the Swedish. Either way, I had all the pictures and myspace webpage links saved and ready to go. Then I decided I would not allow myself to exploit innocent people just to prove a point on this stupid website. I would never want one of those poor girls I labeled "ugly" to come across this site and see a picture of themselves. I think it would ruin her and I deleted all those pictures. Even though those pictures are technically public domain I decided against posting them because to me their well being and self-confidence is more important than proving a stupid point. Even if they would never have come across this website and I was 100% sure of that I wouldn't do it, because no one should look at their pictures and judge them on something they had no control over from the minute they were born. Therefore, I believe Emily that you should be more insulted when someone is disgusted by your character than if someone was disgusted by the way you look. The way someone looks is not their fault. You could have been born Asian for all you know, and you might've been on this very same website defending your Asian race. However, you take for granted that you were born Swedish a "more superior race in terms of beauty" and you believe that entitles you to belittle other people based on their appearance. I know what you are going to say,

: This website is a shallow website based on beauty, if you don't like it go somewhere else. This website blah blah blah blah blah

Just because it is science does not mean that ethics are not involved. You can argue that is is alright for people to put Nordics down but not the other way. No no no. I looked this up and you first started your outbursts in the rhinoplasty section. You were upset because people were judging the "Nordic" race. Well, Erik on this retarded website decided that the Nordic nose was the best and therefore posted examples of why it was the best and why no other race came even close. That is why people were bashing on Nordics, to prove THEIR point. That is the only time the Nordic bashing started, because people of other races and SUB-races were being bashed on something that was lame and had no significan evidence. So go lick yourself or something and GROW THE FUCK UP! You claim other people are immature?

You are beyond immature.

So nice to hear from you! You have proven my point yet again. The Swedish man is handsome but the girl is not attractive. So out of all the beautiful women why did he end up choosing her? I mean arranged marriages are hardly relevant in Scandanavia.
Oh and i am referring to Canada and U.S.A. which have a lot of Nordic/Germanic women and they are crazy for black men. Darling where did i even refer to me liking Black men? although i referred to Nordic men...which you obviously read but didn't respond to :D
About race mixing, Yes i agree Nordics are beautiful and should be "preserved" but i am not Nordic and can't tell them to pick other Nordics if they think other races are more attractive.... or at least the ones that are breeding.
All i can do is not mate with one....which i won't be since i am gay hehe
I am SOOOO GLAD you changed the topic from who is more attractive to race mixing! Because you can never win this one! Because as you know it takes two to tango!...especially if there are other Nordic women around and the Nordic guy still picks an Asian woman? What does that say?
I win again yay!

For educational purposes these pictures are very important. These people have a public web page. If they were concerned with privacy they wouldn't have plastered pictures of themselves and their child for all the world to see. The preservation of my race is more important to me than the "privacy" of a Swedish man who decided to participate in the said degeneration of my race.

This problem is very much a real one for us - not for Asians. There have been lots of articles about this and I'm sure almost everyone has heard about the dangers of race mixing to the (recessive) Nordic race that I belong to. And to be honest, I don't give a damn what you think. It's easy for an Asian, Indian or black person to take a hypocritical high moral ground. After all, you don't stand to lose a thing. We do. So shut up.

"I am SOOOO GLAD you changed the topic from who is more attractive to race mixing! Because you can never win this one! Because as you know it takes two to tango!...especially if there are other Nordic women around and the Nordic guy still picks an Asian woman? What does that say?"

It says that these men can't get or keep a Scandinavian girl. When you say "there are Nordic women around and the Nordic man still picks an Asian woman" you take for granted that the attractive Nordic women are available to him. You must be an idiot. You cannot reason or think straight.

I see these types here who have Asian women so I know what I am talking about. Almost all of them are either anti-socials, hopeless nerds with little sexual attractiveness, or undesirable for one reason or another, and most of them have been trying - and failing - for many years with Nordic women before importing Eastern European- or Asian women eager to get a free meal ticket into my country. These women are always second choice when the options run out.

Ohhhhh someone is getting "heated"
Darling for every anti social, less attractive etc. Nordic male there must be equivalent Nordic females...unless your saying ALL Nordic women are beautiful, smart etc. AHHHHHHHHAAA caught you on that one bitch LOL. Sorry that just sounded funny saying it like that hehehe

Oh PUhhlleeezzzz girlfriend! the same argument is used for White girls who are into black guys that they are all ugly, fat etc. Sure this maybe the case sometimes but i have seen Plenty of very good looking Nordic females and males with people of another race that i wouldn't even think to look at twice.
For example i am in Dublin, Ireland right now and today while walking in the mall downtown i saw (at different occassions) two different very handsome/hot Nordic equivalent guys with very unattractive Asian females. YES dear Ireland has Nordic type people as well. These girls were not even close to average attractiveness for Asian females. I have seen plenty of pretty Asian girls. One of the girls had HUGE teeth and another was very short and had a very broad nose.
I was just really surprised...What is going on? Surely these handsome guys could find at least an average looking Irish white girl?
There is such a thing as rarity? Maybe its fashionable among white people to date outside their race? or something that isn't common. Asians are very few in number here so maybe the guy wanted to "improve his status" by dating non white girls?
I dunno a lot of questions arise...Yes looks are not everything but we are talking about looks here. Maybe these women had great personalities?

So please do not make this ridiculous point again! Unless you come up with "real evidence"
Regarding preserving Nordic phenotype, I might be the only non white person you will get the most support from. I totally support you on that one. BUT My Love the best you can do is breed with a Nordic male...other than that i don't think you can really do much to convince a Nordic male who wants an Asian female or a Nordic girl who wants a black guy OR is there?

Real evidence? As you wish. These are very typical couples that you see here and in other Western countries.

These types of men are typically what Asian women can get..if the woman is attractive and 10-50 years younger than the man. Needless to say Nordic attractive, young women wouldn't look twice at these. If you for one second think Asian import women compare to Nordic women you are insane.

Most of these Asians obviously can't get a decent man, even if she is attractive. If he doesn't look like a total nerd or their granddad he is probably a dominering abuser. I wonder if they tell these men that they love them before they are imported into the Western countries and make sure they get pregnant as soon as possible.

white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman white man with Asian woman

This will be my last reply to you. You are not worth my time.

Oh no Emily don't leave me!
I am sorry my Nordic queen the most beautiful creature in the world...I am on my kness forgive me your highness lol
Whatever Emily...i am not worth your time? I am the only one here (no disrespect to others) who has put you in your place without attacking your race or any other race, I like talking to you :)
Please someone teach me how to post pictures? I need to show Emily some of her Nordic sisters "betraying" her race...

Also one or two of the guys didn't look bad to me.

What the Hell is going on here? Why don’t people pay attention to the topic, which in this case is whether it is objectively possible to compare attractiveness across ethnic groups? Some people have stated their preferences, but this is irrelevant to the part of this site that the comments here are supposed to address.

Some people have sex with dogs. What does this show about their ethnic group? Nothing! So why should a minority of an ethnic group having physical relations with people of other ethnic groups require any sort of explanation? If people can have sex with dogs or other animals, surely some humans from any population will relish having sex with people from another ethnic group. No explanation is required.

An instance when an explanation may be of relevance is when a majority or large proportion of an ethnic group prefers to mate with members of another ethnic group. This situation is not true of any European population when it comes to European and non-European mating. It is a safe bet that the majority of European men with Asian partners shown by Emily would prefer a white version of the Asian women they got, but one doesn’t always get what one prefers. Since unusual sexual interests are much more common among men, had Emily posted pictures of white women with non-European mates, then a preference for co-ethnics would be even more true of the white women than their white male counterparts. But none of this is relevant to the issue of an objective comparison of beauty across ethnic groups.

Hotsauce: You asked whether Melyssa Ford, Esther Baxter and Vida Guerra look feminine to me. Based on your pictures they do, but if you looked around and found other pictures then they would look less feminine than in your pictures because of their muscle mass and miscellaneous skeletal features. Vida Guerra even has breast implants. You also asked my opinion on an article on Northern Europeans. Most of it is a reprint of a paper by Peter Frost, which I have cited within this site. I agree that the gist of Frost’s article is correct, namely that the rapid onset of hair color diversity and presumably also eye color diversity in Northern Europe reflects stronger sexual selection. The rest of the article is subjective opinion that I have no comment on. For instance, in your pictures, the backside protruberance of the women is emphasized and if you pick up magazines catering to African-American men, you will note that this is a common theme and that often the front view waist-hip proportions of the more sub-Saharan African women models are completely obscured, whereas European models tend to be shown from all angles. This difference is related to ethnic differences. Sub-Saharan African women have wider waists and narrower hips shape-wise but also more protuberant buttocks. How does one objectively compare attractiveness when there are such ethnic differences? People have their own preferences, but this does not require a comment here.

Sense: Your comment does not reflect any understanding of the article. The article does not rest its case on the “unfair ethnic comparisons.” It is clearly written, “the comparisons are not for the purpose of comparing the attractiveness of ethnic groups, but for determining whether one can come up with objective criteria to compare the attractiveness of individuals across populations,” “the illustrative examples and comparisons should not be assumed to imply typicality or average differences; the context of the illustrative examples is explained in the text and/or legends,” and the following:


Those who wanted others to believe that it is impossible to come up with objective and sufficiently exacting criteria to compare the attractiveness of individuals across populations would tend to display striking contrasts (Figures 1a-h), whereas those who wanted others to conclude the opposite would pick images that minimize differences across populations (Figures 2a-c). Therefore, it is not sufficient to just rely on pictures to answer the central question of this section of the site. It is necessary to also refer to average differences between populations, as documented in the anthropological literature.

You have accused me of having a superiority complex, but the article doesn’t conclude that groups can objectively be classified as superior-inferior with respect to beauty.

You mentioned Europeans brainwashing non-Europeans but psychological research shows that the concept of brainwashing is a fiction.

I know that there are plenty of white celebrities that have undergone cosmetic surgery, but this is irrelevant. What is relevant is the overall direction of the numerous cosmetic procedures. In all groups, the overall direction is toward greater attractiveness. However, in non-Europeans, by their own aesthetic standards, numerous cosmetic surgeries also tend to make them look less ethnic and shift their faces in the direction of European norms, whereas the ethnicity-altering cosmetic procedures among Europeans are in the direction of a subset among them – the Northern Europeans – not Asians, Africans or other non-European populations.

You explained the ethnicity-altering cosmetic procedures among non-Europeans in terms of the global domination of whites for centuries. You asked, “is it really a wonder why Europeans and their ideas about everything--from politics to beauty—dominate?” This notion is easily refuted. Northern European slaves in Rome were admired for their looks. Why? It had nothing to do with any kind of domination. If you live in the U.S. or Western Europe need I tell you about how well the non-Europeans in these regions have, on average, taken to respect for individual rights, freedom of speech and rule of law? Why would non-Europeans end up admiring European looks but have much less or no regard for or even hostility toward the secular aspects of European culture and many of its religious traditions if European domination is the explanation?

The explanation that I have offered is technical. People tend to have a preference for somewhat more overall derived facial features and Europeans have more overall derived faces. The phenomenon being addressed is a preference for somewhat more overall derived facial features – which just happens to coincide, to a great extent, with a shift toward European norms – not fundamentally a preference for European face shapes. Thus, for instance, East Asians undergoing upper eyelid surgery and building their nose bridge, etc. are not trying to looking white (which they couldn’t) and not trying to look whiter, but trying to look less ethnic. I am not playing word games here. 200,000 years ago, the ancestors of current humans didn’t have current Europeans to influence their sense of beauty, but they possessed a preference for somewhat more overall derived faces and so did their ancestors 300,000 years before them, and it is this phenomenon that matters.

You have also painted Europeans with the brush of being oppressors, enslavers and annihilators. How many Norwegians were among the American Conquistadors, behind the opium-related attack on China or members of the East India Company? Learn about European diversity. When the colonial expansions were taking place, identities such as ‘European’ or ‘white’ didn’t exist; the people occupying Europe did not see themselves in this manner. The misdeeds of a people should not be extrapolated to their neighbors. And think what would a number of non-European populations have done if the tables were turned, i.e., the non-Europeans had the military might and the Europeans living as ‘savages’ and ‘barbarians.’


That person posted pictures of his family up to show his friends, not for some sick girl to post them on a sick website. You have no respect for people do you? Even if you were the most attractive woman on the planet I would find very few men that would be willing to reproduce with you. Maybe some of those men you posted up with the Asian women.... but thats about it. I showed this to my boyfriend and he told me he would puke if he had to talk to a woman like you. Maybe you are attractive on the outside (which I highly doubt for many reasons), but your mind is disgusting. Where did your Nordic parents fail?

-Oh, and by the way the whole race mixing ruins races crap was started by old men who are white supremacist trailer trash.

Watch this documentary, they don't believe in race mixing either:

They are called Prussian Blue!

Besides sweetheart, if you believe that the only reason white men mix with other races is because they are incapable of attracting the beauties in the North, than you should not be worried about your race being ruined. Obviously, the beauties and handsome men in Scandanavia wouldn't mix with other races because they are capable of attracting eachother so what is your worry then? You make no fucking sense...

You fear your race is being degenerated, yet you claim that the only race mixing occuring is between unattractive people. Well why do you care then?

Look the leader of white supremacy, race preservation, and trash in the United States who is currently in jail is a disgusting pervert....

It's funny too that a lot of this crap is based on Darwins work. Well, we didn't even interpret his work right! OMG people are so ignorant and blinded, and not because they can't see the light but because they choose to stay in the dark. And Emily will die writing comments on this stupid website and Erik will die posting on this stupid website. And I am out, and am going to do something more productive than waste time on this stupid website. Because I actually believe that Nordic people are possibly the most attractive race, but this website presents no noteworthy evidence for that! It really is more an embarrassment than anything else.

Darwin's ideas interpreted wrong:

If the white race holds anything over any race, it is because they are simply lucky! Why should anyone be proud of something they had nothing to do with in the first place? What have you accomplished Emily? Being born a Nordic?

OH MY WHAT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT that is! What an accomplishment it is to be BEAUTIFUL! What work and devotion you must have put into achieving this!Oh my!

Address the argument - not the person. Again, why can't you people argue without attacking and insulting? Is that an Asian race trait or just weakness? Of course you hate these pictures that show the ugly effect of Asian/Caucasian mixing. Ugly to our race, and hurtful. That is exactly why they need to be shown - and often.

You are angry because white people wish to preserve their race. Fine. It would suit you just fine if you bred us out since many of you are more racists than any white person will ever be.

Unfortunately for you it's not going to happen since more and more people are aware of the effects and damage of interbreeding to the white (recessive) race. Globalists would love one mono-race and one mono-culture. That flies in the face of history, and the result is segregation and mutts who don't have any true identity.

That's not the kind of world I would like to see. With all its flaws I was happy with the one we had, where people felt they belonged somewhere. Again, it's easy for Asians to criticize. You don't have these problems in YOUR countries, and there are billions of you.

Anyway, Asian women get the dating scraps off our table and that's how it is. Deal with it.

The only conclusion one could make is that Nordic women should take pity more often on these men and that they should seek counselling and try to work out their problems with women instead of taking the easy way out and import someone who wants them primarily as a meal ticket.

You fuckin tard! I am white!

Not every white person agrees with trash, just because they are white. It's funny that you think anyone against your insane ideas is Asian or something. And I did address your ridiculous argument.

And there is nothing with a race wanting to preserve themselves. But why don't those specific people preserve themselves instead forcing their ideas on others? Like you said, the only reason a white Nordic man would mix with another race is because they are unattractive and have problems. Therefore, besides those unattractive men the rest of you should have no problem preserving your race? Then why do you need to even advocate against race mixing? It shouldn't be a problem for you if what you say is true...

* correction: The first sentence in my last statement should be- There is nothing wrong with a race wanting to preserve themselves

"An instance when an explanation may be of relevance is when a majority or large proportion of an ethnic group prefers to mate with members of another ethnic group. This situation is not true of any European population when it comes to European and non-European mating. It is a safe bet that the majority of European men with Asian partners shown by Emily would prefer a white version of the Asian women they got, but one doesn’t always get what one prefers."

It's true that most men here prefer their own women and most choose other women as a last choice, but I think it is VERY important to address the fact that relatively few Asian- or black genes can do un unproportional amount of damage to the Nordic recessive genes/ sub-race.

This is not only a question of choosing sexual partners, Erik, it is a question of family-making, and the consequences of race mixing between dominant and recessive races. I don't care if Asians have sex with their tea pot, but I do care if they "pollute" my race and dilute our genes, and that is underway in Sweden right now.

For instance, the pictures of the half-Asian Swedish woman and the Nordic man and their clearly Asian-looking child demonstrate the fact that in a population as small as ours a lot of damage can be done to the genetic pool of Nordics. This damage is already evident. I see it here almost every day and I never saw this ten years ago.

If picking up Asian women and start families with them becomes a trend - as it is slowly becoming - this will inevitably hurt and change the Nordic race. This cannot go on forever in such a small population without any consequences.

I know this was off-topic but in a way maybe not, since these comparisons you look for between ethnicities will become irrelevant if these ethnicities and races are all mixed into one muddled race.

Soon enough it will no longer be possible to tell exactly what race or ethnicity someone is - unless they are Asian or black - so the problem will be mute.

I'm sorry if I didn't use the correct terms when I addressed race mixing. I'm not familiar with the exact terms but I hope the message comes across.

You are awesome! The funny thing is that attractive Nordics aren't breeding with one another, it may seem that only the "unattractive" are and that too with other races. So Emily why don't you have 50 children or something? This way you will ensure your Nordic race exists somewhat LOL
I doubt you will ever do this! Your all talk and no action...If you had children i doubt you would even have the time to post here. Darling hurry...your biological clock is ticking! Bring some Nordic children into this world!

Godis can you please teach me how to post pics here like Emily is doing? without posting links?

Erik i didnot like your example/comparison of some people (of a race) breeding with dogs in the same thought as people breeding with other races....

"You fuckin tard! I am white!"

I will believe it when I see it. Anyone reading your comments can tell that you are an angry non-white. Why don't the two of you visit sites who are made for Asians and Indians? This one is not geared towards Asians or Indians, obviously. Why the obsession?

Isn't there a way to block trolls who disrupt the site on purpose? The alternative is to start moderating the threads, perhaps. Angry personal attacks contribute nothing, and the purpose now is clearly to lower the standard of discussion here and to damage the site, which they believe is hostile to them.


Why don't you read other comments I have posted where I have clearly stated that I am WHITE? This is Emilys argument:

If you don't like what I say it is because you are not white and you are JEALOUS! Wow, Emily how long did it take you to come up with that one? What kind of circular logic is that?

Here is my deal Emily. Try to understand me ok?

I agree that one race will have more attractive people than any other. Every race has an edge or advantage over the other. Life is not equal and races and individuals themselves are not equal. The problem is that you have these false ideas. One idea is that other races are ruining your race! No one is forcing anyone to mate with anyone else. Therefore your argument has no backbone. If you want to preserve your race than do it yourself. There are plenty of people out there who want to perserve the white race. Simply select an attractive white male if that is your goal. But don't push these ideas on others.

Also, I am not taking any high moral ground. I am not an extremely moral person, I make mistakes and I don't claim that I do not. However, it bothers me that you would take people's personal photos, one of their child as well, and critique the way they look and what they are doing to your race. I am just trying to show you that this is not necessary and is sinking quite low. Besides, posting a bunch of pictures is not going to prove any argument. That is only one photo. For all we know, there could be many extremely attractive interacial couples. You just decided to post that particular photo up. Besides, this is almost useless to argue. Nobody has really figured out the "beauty" formula. Beauty is not black and white (no pun intended), just like life is not black and white. If someone figured out the formula for beauty, it would be very intricate with many exceptions.


To post pictures you need to go on a website like photobucket or flickr. Open an account, then you can upload any pictures you have saved on your hardrive and they will be converted to html. Then what you do is, for example, on photobucket by the side of the picture there will be a little box. On the box will be:

Share URL
Direct Link
IMG Code

Click on HTML code, copy it, and then paste it on the website you want it on and the picture will show up!


It is hilarious you went as far as comparing interracial mixing with beastiality. Does the issue bother you?
It is common knowledge that the women in Nordic countries prefer darker men to lighter men. Have you ever heard of tall dark and handsome? In fact women with men that have darker hair and features claim higher status in Nordic countries. Rarely are these men Asian or African-American. There are few Asians or African-Americans in Northern Europe. However, for example Meditteranean men are considered more attractive by most and are more preffered in Nordic countries.

"but I do care if they "pollute" my race and dilute our genes"

Genes cannot be diluted. Genes are not as simple as you are making them out to be. Scientists are finding everyday that genetics are more complex than originally thought.


Often Asian genes can improve the look of Caucasian, and specifically even Nordic women. Erik even admits this on this website, I will find it if you want me to. There has also been much research done on this and there is a lot of data to support these claims. Eurasians are generally considered extremely attractive and often more attractive than their counterparts such as plain Asians or plain Caucasians. One famous Eurasian Kristin Kreuk:

Kristin Kreuk Pictures, Images and Photos

kristin kreuk Pictures, Images and Photos

Yes, I know she is "famous" and does not represent the whole Eurasian population. However, my friend is Eurasian and no less beautiful. The research for this however is overwhelming.

Also, what you don't realize with your race mixing theory is that you are in a way insulting the "Nordic" genes. By claiming these genes to be so fragile you give more reason for this sub-race to diminish. "Only the strong survive" remember our little friend Darwin? Well, if Nordic genes are not strong enough to withstand intermixing which has been going on since the beginning of time, perhaps they have no place in the future? However, tha is all pseudoscience because Nordic genes ARE strong enough to survive intermixing. Blondes will not die out and neither will blue eyes no matter how much you "dilute" the gene pool. This is pseudo-science again created by white supremacist with perhaps an 8th grade education in order to discourage race mixing which should not have to be discouraged at all actually, because like I said, if one race is truly superior than they have no reason to mix. And the unsuperior part of that race would intermix according to you, however that is good news for a race because now those genes are being diluted and being furthered from your race right? See, I'm just trying to think the way you think but it makes little sense really...

Here is an example of white trash pseudo-science:

Genes like the blonde gene may not show up as often. However, it won't diminish completely, this is extremely unlikely, unless it is purposefully being selected against...

I know wikipedia is not a credible source, but I don't have that much time on my hands to search for one. However, you are welcome to search for one yourself and you will find one. On the other hand you will not find a credible source claiming genes can be diluted...

But I get what you are saying... and I am not against race preservation, but it should not be forced on others. You will always have race preservation in my opinion because a fraction of people will always feel more comfortable mating simply with their own kind 100%.

Kristin Kreuk icon Pictures, Images and Photos

kristin kreuk Pictures, Images and Photos

Kristin Kreuk Pictures, Images and Photos

Kristin Kreuk Pictures, Images and Photos

Fuller lips, smaller nose, more "exotic" eyes, rounder face...

Hey Godis,
Thanks so much! Flickr was a little confusing so i went to photo bucket and it worked ...Testing
Oh btw Kritin is very pretty :)


Enjoy this Emily

Why is Hayden's face idolized in America? Because it is closer to plain Nordic or Eurasian?

Hayden Panettiere Pictures, Images and Photos

ohhh hayden Pictures, Images and Photos

How about Camilla Belles?

5 Pictures, Images and Photos

camilla belle Pictures, Images and Photos

Are there 100% Nordic actresses that are more attractive than the above? Yes. But most aren't.

Kristin Kreuk and Allison Mack Pictures, Images and Photos

Allison Mack and Kristin Kreuk Pictures, Images and Photos





Emily enjoy!

"Genes cannot be diluted."

Semantics. Our race/genes will be diluted and polluted unless white people become more racially aware, and aware of the recessive nature of our genes. Whichever way you describe it that is the result of race mixing to the Nordic race.

"Often Asian genes can improve the look of Caucasian, and specifically even Nordic women"

This is your subjective opinion and most white people don't agree. Most non-whites do agree with you and for obvious reasons.

The pictures you showed of a famous quasi-white actress/model tell us that some Asians look good when they are almost white...what kind of point is that? That is what I said all along. Pure Nordics - models like her - are in no way inferior to her. All you have done is proving my point that asians benefit from the caucasian traits they "borrow", as they damage ours.

"Eurasians are generally considered extremely attractive"

Where is the argument? I have repeatedly said that Asians who have caucasian blood can look very good. They damage US in the process. They look good because of their Caucasian genes. As a rule they are not attractive on their own. Asians cannot stand on their own feet in terms of looks. Your examples here work against your argument and supports mine. Thank you.

Also, the point is that the integrity of my race is compromised, since our population cannot withstand forever this influx of non-white, dominant genes. That issue is far more important than the question of beauty. All races deserve to be protected and to have their racial integrity intact and not raped, no matter how they look.

"Also, what you don't realize with your race mixing theory is that you are in a way insulting the "Nordic" genes. By claiming these genes to be so fragile you give more reason for this sub-race to diminish. "Only the strong survive""

Look, sometimes the most valuable things in life are fragile. Sturdiness is not the same thing as being more valuable. On the contrary. The most precious things here on earth are often rare and fragile, in danger of extinction. Many animals and plants are examples of this.

The cockroach is sturdier and stronger than almost all other animals combined. Are they more deserving of a place on earth than others, then? Your argument is immature and ignorant.

Our genes are more rare, recessive and more fragile and easy to compromise, and that doesn't make it any less important to protect them. One way is to make people more aware and more educated.

Intermixing, the way we see it done now during the last 50 years or so, has NEVER, EVER happened before. Nordics must be aware of the dangers of race-mixing to their race, unless they want to become all mutts like the woman whose photos you posted.

By the way, as soon as someone is racially aware AND white they are insulted and called racists and white supremacists. This has to stop. This deconstruction strategy, where you attack the person and not the argument, is very transparent and people see through this more and more.


Here are ethnically Nordic beauties. Models and non models, since non-whites insist on showing photos of models and actresses. Show me pictures where the women aren't borrowing white genes in order to look attractive.

No mutts, no racially mixed people. What's the matter? Can't they stand on their own feet? Do they really need us so badly? How pathetic. This indeed makes it seem like the white race is the superior one..the fact that they don't measure up without racially mixing with us.











The difference between white Nordics and others is that we don't need other genes than our own - they need ours.

The irony is that the thing you admire and desire risks extinction as it is damaged each time you borrow from it. I hope more white people realize this before it is too late to reverse.


The photos of the women I posted are more feminine than the ones you posted. Nicole Kidman is not more feminine than the woman I posted, even in her younger years. She is beautiful nonetheless.

And like I said before: No one is forcing Nordics to mix. They are doing it to themselves.

It is not true that everyone needs Nordic genes to be attractive. Like I said, Asian admixture improves BOTH the Asian and Caucasian look on most occasions. Keyword: BOTH! Whichever one it improves more, you can argue, however it improves BOTH!

The fact that Eurasians are on average more attractive is not my opinion, there is a lot of research that is PRO this conclusion. An extremely feminine woman that is 100% Nordic will look better than an Eurasian, just like an extremely feminine Asian woman will look more attractive than a Eurasian.

Let's compare an Eurasian actress to a well known Nordic one in her younger years of course. Kristin Kreuk and Nicole Kidman:

Nicole Kidman 14 Pictures, Images and Photos

Nicole Kidman Pictures, Images and Photos

Nicole Kidman Pictures, Images and Photos

Nicole Kidman 1 Pictures, Images and Photos

First of all, Nicole Kidman IS feminine but not as feminine as Kristin Kreuk. However, I think she is stunning and I don't think anyone in this world would argue against that. Her Nordic features make her stunning as well. Her oval face, blue eyes, light hair, her nose.

However, Kristin Kreuk in my opinion is a bit MORE feminine and equally as attractive. Although, she does not have the charisma Nicole has but this is not related to race.

kristin smiles again Pictures, Images and Photos

kristin kreuk 10001 Pictures, Images and Photos

Kristin Kreuk 3 Pictures, Images and Photos

Here is one more pic of Kristin to even it out, I only had 3 of her and 4 of Nicole:

Kristin Kreuk Pictures, Images and Photos

It is obvious that Kristin ASIAN features play a very big part in her attractiveness and give her an edge over most normal Nordic women.

And I would find photos of plain ordinary attractive Asians or Indians or whatever, but I honestly don't know of any websites I can get these photos without exploiting regular everyday people. If you have a website that has photos of populations like this, then please give it to me. However, I honestly don't know where to look. I found photos of many attractive Asians and Nordics on myspace but I feel it is wrong to post them on this website as these people do not deserve to be critiqued on their looks. They are ordinary people trying to socialize and network, they do not have careers in modeling where it is their job to be critiqued on their attractiveness.

No, Asian genes do not improve Nordic looks. That is nonsense. My photos of Swedish women here beautifully illustrate this.

Nordic genes, however, ALWAYS improve Asian looks since 100% Asians almost never can compete with Nordics. Don't even go there because it is laughably obvious you have no case. Nordics stand better on their own and more often than not a mixing of genes actually destroy our looks, as I showed in the photo of the half-Asian Swedish woman.

I don't find this model mutt especially attractive. Her remaining mongoloid traits are damaging her looks, especially visible around the upper part of her nose and her eyes, and yellowish skin tone. The lower part of her nose seems out of proportion to her upper part in ther last photo, telling me she probably had plastic surgery.

I find more beauty in a pure South Asian face than I do in this plastic no-man's-land of a face. As is usually the case with mutts her face lacks identity.

Here are some photos of Asians off photobucket. They can "STAND ON THEIR OWN" I have a lot of Asian and Eurasian friends, mainly Chinese, and a lot of them look like this. Even darker ones are attractive. My one friend from Cambodia is really tan but she is gorgeous still.

Again, I can't get population photos because I don't know where to find them:

Flower Girl Pictures, Images and Photos

asian girl Pictures, Images and Photos

Sexy Asian Girl Pictures, Images and Photos

JaPaNeSe GiRL Pictures, Images and Photos

Sexy photo  Korean Girl Hwang-Mi-Hee Pictures, Images and Photos






hawaiin beauty Pictures, Images and Photos

Emily now i think your being really biased...I think Kristin is lovely and i am not sure what you were trying to say about South Asians but here is one of my favorite actresses that looks as good as many Nordics....The hazel eyed Madhuri





Have you ever read Harry Potter? Did you notice that the love interest in the story of a WHITE ENGLISH BOY is Cho an Asian girl?

Madhuri is gorgeous, I agree

Asians and Indians show only professional model photos, never pictures of ordinary people. I wonder why. LOL

And these photos of half-Asian and half-Indian models who have had plastic surgeries are supposed to convince people of what? That Nordics look better, I assume.

The lolita-look of the Asian women is disgusting. Why do Asians so often cater to phedophiles? Because that is the only niche they have. Adult sexy and curvy women make them look like underdeveloped children. They are just one step from looking like this;


Of course this is what Asians really look like outside the studio (Cheerleaders Olympics in Beijing);











The fact that you think Kristin Kreuk is less attractive than the photos of the women YOU posted is LAUGHABLE! Honestly, no one can argue with you because you lie to yourself as well as others. Kristin Kreuk is one of the few people in Hollywood that had not had any cosmetic surgery. Her nose is more attractive than the Nordic norm, HER EYE area makes her MORE attractive than the Nordic eye area because they are far set and wide eyes, her lips are fuller, her face is rounder, softer, and more neotonis. All these features she got from her ASIAN side. And her hair is gorgeous and thick.


It's funny how YOU resort to personal attacks when things are not going your way. Why are you bringing pedophiles into this? I provided photos of attractive Asians, that is what you asked for, you got it. Face the facts, the Nordic race is gorgeous but not superior.

You post the SAME photos of unattractive Indians and Asians. Why always cheerleaders? Extremely proffessional cheerleaders are going to be more masculine. You post up high school photos of Nordic cheerleaders and Olympic photos of Asian cheerleaders. When done proffessionally cheerleading is a vigorous sport, and naturally only more masculine females will be suited for proffessional cheerleading while more feminine women will be suited for high school cheerleading which is less demanding. Your argument is pointless because the photos are biased in that sense.

Look another ethnicity that is just as attractive as Nordics! Turks:








Hey look Eastern Europeans! Russians:

THE RUSSIAN BEAUTY Pictures, Images and Photos

russian girl Pictures, Images and Photos

russian girl Pictures, Images and Photos

~~~~OH DANG I LOVE LANA SO MUCHO.MY RUSSIAN GIRL~~ Pictures, Images and Photos

Just look at the photos of Anastasia Romanov. Slavs are and have been attractive for a very long time:

Anastasia Romanov Pictures, Images and Photos

All the Romanov children were beautiful:

Romanov Pictures, Images and Photos

Olga Nikolaevna Romanov Pictures, Images and Photos

"All the Romanov children were beautiful"

Yes, of course. And the children's mother was German (and her father German and mother British), and the children's paternal grand mother was Danish.

This was a royal family. Did you expect them to be all ethnically Russian? LOL

The Romanov children appear very Slavic. Slavs themselves have a high percentage of Nordic genes, even in the South where the celts and Goths and all of them invaded. I thought you believed the British to be generally ugly? Hmm... contradicting yourself much?

Also, is that the best you can do Emily? Identify the Romanovs as something else besides Slavic? What about all my other arguments?

You also believe it hilarious that I believe a Royal family to be ethnically the same. Yes, in fact many royal families interbreeded to preserve the bloodline. This was also a high occurence in GERMANY! Oh my! Actually, there area where my ancestors are from had a retarded king because of the interbreeding. So if royalty went as far as to interbreed, I think it was a safe bet to say that they at least kept themselves ethnically the same. The girls appear Slavic, obviousls because THEY ARE!

Besides Emily, I thought you were against race mixing and diluting genes? Do you approve or Royalty mixing so? How about the royals of Sweden? Do you approve of their diluted genes? How do you stand being governed and ruled by "diluted" people! Oh the atrocity!

I can only imagine how those French mutt royals destroyed your beautiful country! Surely, if a pure Swede had run the country it would be in an even WEALTHIER state huh?

hehee your so funny and make me laugh...your such a nice lady compared to that .... uhm
Thanks for posting the pictures of all the beautiful people :)

First off Madhuri is not half white, second she has not had plastic surgery...WOW you assume every good looking non white person must have plastice surgery or white admixture.....RIDICULOUS. Really proves how biased you are!

By making statements such as "you only post models etc" you have completely overlooked cultural differences. Do you really think the MAJORITY of Indian women go clubbing? expose themselves (i mean in revealing clothing)? or would agree to be photographed by strangers? Now ask that same Question for Swedish girls....IF you still can't understand the difference then you must be really dumb!

It's not a question of beauty - it's a question of ethnical heritage and you wrongly implied that the Russian Royal family was Slavic and ethnically Russian when they in reality had a prominent Nordic ethnic background - like Royal families in Europe do.

They don't look Slavic to me, by the way. They appear mostly Nordic/Germanic and the Czars themselves often looked German or British - not Slavic.

They were not a good example of typical Russians - since they were not - and neither were most of your other pictures that showed Russian girls with partly Nordic traits and very muted Slavic ones. You didn't choose the ones who really look Slavic/Russian without Nordic influence. I agree..Nordic genes do improve the looks of others.

Besides, "intermixing" between white Slavs and white Nordics is hardly the same thing as intermixing between whites and Asians. I think that comparison was ridiculous.

So you wanted non model/actress Indians well here they are...




So Emily i wonder who paid for their nose jobs? Oh my aren't they "ugly"? I am sure you came across pictures of good looking Indians but decided not to post them to prove your point...although some girls in the pics don't look bad to me :)
Honey don't play this pictures game with will loose. So you have said Asian women attract pedophiles, black women are masculine and have broad features....What about indian women?

NOTE : If any of the ladies whose pictures i have posted comes across these, I think your all beautiful :)


It is funny how you hang on one little subject. The fact that the Russians are mixed. Who cares? They still have Slavic genes and RECENT Slavic genes. Russians are not Nordic, but they do have Nordic genes. Blonde hair ,red hair, green eyes and blue eyes are common in Russia and these are all Nordic traits. Honestly, you have the worst arguments. If someone is attractive they HAVE to be mixed,if we disagree with your ridiculous arguments we are jealous? Why don't you get real points and real arguments. You would have been the laughing stock of the debate team at our school.

Your response to everything would be: Well your just JEALOUS!

cry me a river. I'm not jealous just stating the facts.

I have posted plenty of photos up there. Why don't you address those instead of hanging on a subject you seem to think you have an advantage on for argument purposes. And maybe come up with a better argument besides: "you are just jealous and they are mixed". Because I am not jealous and they are not mixed. This site is about beauty so critique their beauty. Stop trying to critique my ethnicity or my underlying motives. My arguments stand alone. Judge my arguments, not me. You do not know me. However, anyone can read my argument and draw a logical conclusion from them and argue back. So far your only arguments have been of accusing me of not being white, of being jealous, and of my photos being biased and mixed. None of these are true. So why don't you analyze my photos and the facial features and tell me what you find so unattractive about those women? And what is honestly so much more attractive than Nordic women?

Do you realize how hilarious you sound? You cannot admit that any attractive people exist outside of the Nordic sub-race of the Caucasian race. Do you honestly believe the crap you write down?

"You post the SAME photos of unattractive Indians and Asians. "

They are not models and actresses and half-whites. The fact is that they are good representatives for their ethnic group. The vast majority of Asians are far from attractive according to our standard.

However, it is well-known that Scandinavia has a very high amount of beautiful people compared to the size of the population. Actually, Scandinavia is world-famous for it.

"Why always cheerleaders? Extremely proffessional cheerleaders are going to be more masculine. You post up high school photos of Nordic cheerleaders and Olympic photos of Asian cheerleaders. When done "

The ones I showed are comparable. The Asians don't look masculine or athletic to me, just rather fit. You are just angry because the Swedish ones look better. Well, what a surprise. Swedish women are prettier, ON AVERAGE.

I posted photos of national football players, too, and even there the Scandinavian women were outstanding, so the pattern is clear. Most 100% Asian women cannot compete with Nordic women. Since the amount of Asians are astoundingly greater than the amount of Scandinavians this fact is even more remarkable.

You don't realize it but I was actually generous towards the Asians when I chose pictures as I chose those who looked fit and not out of shape. The Beijing cheerleaders were chosen mainly for attractiveness.

Here you go..since you thought the Asians were too athletic compared to the Swedish ones. You could turn the argument and say that the Swedish ones look less fit and more out of shape, but since you thought they were prettier you didn't choose to look at it that way.

Beijing cheerleaders;







Feminine Japanese cheerleaders.


Masculine Swedish National Team football players.











Hyper athletic? Not really.

Also, Indians in their natural environment and not in night clubs (rolls eyes);








Cute Swedish girls.

This Emily is a really biased bitch! She is losing thats why she is holding onto every ridiculous "argument" she can. Lets see whats happening here.
Godis has mentioned she is white, and Emily you are arguing with another white person about East Asian beauty? Wouldn't it be a better idea to do it with someone who is actually Asian?
I am Indian as i mentioned (North west Indian), so i would be a better option for you to argue about Indian beauty. Unless you think i am not white and therefore "unworthy" of arguing with you LOL
Emily you have completely ignored many of my arguments and pictures!!!! You did not say anything about the pictures i posted. Instead you do something ridiculous and post those two pictures.
First of all bitch India is very multi Ethnic!!! second i could easily find unflattering pictures of Sami people in their traditonal attire etc and post to show you or unattractive Nordics. Then where would we be???
I am from North west India, a region with people that are closer to European in looks so why would i post pictures of South or North East Indian people who look "different" from me? Erik mentioned this as pictures of people who would be comparable to Nordics and considered attractive by Indians.... I.E. North West Indians.
No offence to Godis or other Indians reading this.

Ok sorry Emily....i apologise for using the word bitch.

Look at these pictures......Chinese woman?

No North East Indian

Vietnamese family?

No North East Indian


So Emily do you think you or people at first glance, without knowing where they are from guess that these people are from India?

An important issue regarding the standard of women participating in international beauty pageants is whether it is possible to compare the attractiveness of women from different geographic populations using objective criteria

It is clear that it is not possible to come up with objective criteria that are sufficiently exacting for the purposes of comparing the attractiveness of women from different geographic populations in beauty pageants.

The Darker skinned people are from South India and these two actors from North West India

The green eyes Hrithik and bluw eyes Karishma....notice any differences?
I am sure you can tell the difference between contacts and real eyes? Thats why i posted close ups. Previously someone mentioned some Indians can have "Nordic type features" Do you think these two might be close??



I meant to say green eyed Hrithik and blue eyed Karishma


I was just surfing the internet and I just happened to stumble across this website(??? such a weird website)

English is not my first language but I'll do my best.

First of all, I couldn't read all the comments. There are so many of them!! lol

I was born in Korea and came to america 4(not sure)yrs ago and right now I go to Purdue. One good thing about Purdue is that you see lots of people from different countries. Anyways...

To be honest, I agree with the fact that white Nordic beauty is the standard in TODAY'S SOCIETY(!!!).

However, that standard changes over time. What's beautiful today might not be beautiful in the future. For example, back then, chubby women were considered pretty.

Also, beauty doesn't last forever. If the beauty is the only thing that you value, when you become old and not so beautiful, you are gonna have a hard time dealing with the fact that you are not beautiful anymore.

Is beauty only thing that matters when it comes to being attractive? I don't know. It depends on who you are.

And Emily, about polluting your gene pool... I don't know what to say. Hmmm, it looks quite obvious that you are not gonna marry someone outside of your race. lol But please, calm down. You are paranoid and being insecure.

Anyways, I appreciate my asian apprearance. If someone like Emily doesn't appreciate what I have, I honestly don't feel offended. I mean, there are also things about Caucasians that Asians don't like. In that sense, some Caucasians are kinda blind(??)

And Please don't think Asians want to be just like Caucasians and we are after Caucasians, meaning we are trying to mix our genes with yours. By all means, most Asians do not care. So chill out.

"Feminine beauty is underappreciated in contemporary Western culture"

"However, it is well-known that Scandinavia has a very high amount of beautiful people compared to the size of the population. Actually, Scandinavia is world-famous for it"


"To be honest, I agree with the fact that white Nordic beauty is the standard in TODAY'S SOCIETY(!!!).

However, that standard changes over time."

Don't bet on it. The Nordic race has been admired for ages. It's not just a modern thing. Mongoloid-, Indian- and black traits don't compare.

The white race is the only one that stands on its own feet in terms of looks. The other races need our genes to improve their looks, damaging our gene pool in the process.

Asians, blacks and Indians have EVERYTHING to gain from race mixing (look at them), and we have everything to lose - including our own race. Our genes are recessive and need protection. We cannot afford race mixing the way we see it right now - they can.

Nordic children should not look like this if we want to survive as a race;


This is what a Nordic child looks like;



I object to the destruction of a race just so that others can benefit. I don't see any sane reason to accept this development. In fact, it would be self-destructive to do so. Other races wouldn't accept this if it was happening to them, and neither should we.

I only hope that more white people realize what is going on, and that race mixing does not benefit them - only the others, who are desperately in favor of it (read comments by non-whites here, for example).

Other races feel envy and hatred towards whites, and at the same time admiration. They want to merge, mix, with us, and if they outbreed us they don't care. That is the ugly truth.



These unattractive, childlike and underdeveloped dwarfs in only one color should not be allowed to damage the white race.



Asians LOVE white people and want to emulate us as much as they can. They even prefer mixed people - Eurasians - to their own! That's how self-loathing many of them are.

I truly hope we value our own race more than they do theirs. They shouldn't be allowed to improve their appearance at our expence. We don't want mongoloid traits. Asians, Indians and blacks want what we have, and often encourage race mixing. Gee, I wonder why?

It can be tempting to look for women outside your cultural- and social circles when you fail with your own kind, but to mix with other races is irresponsible and selfish. Surely there must be someone who wants you among your own? The first thing a Swedish man thinks to himself when he sees another man with an Asian woman is "He wasn't good enough for a Swedish woman. He couldn't keep her". All men here know it's a last option. They joke about it. Such a man loses all his status in an instant.


Unless you want children who look like this and who will make us look like semi-mongoloids in a couple of generations stick to your own race, the only truly beautiful there is unless it is destroyed.


Should Nordics look like this?


Or this? Do we want to breed out Nordic beautiful facial traits, blond- and red hair, blue- and green eyes, and our skin color in exchange for THAT?

Remember..they want to look like us. So let them have their beloved plastic surgeries but don't let them take our genes and destroy our race. Nordic/white looks is recessive and easy to destroy when you race mix. Asians and others know this but don't care.

They want you to race mix and destroy thousands of years of evolution in just a matter of generations. THAT is how SELFISH they are. They are not ignorant - just maliciously indifferent...




Emily, you are so unbelievably bigoted. What are you, some sort of neo-nazi that believes in a "supreme race"?

When did beauty become so unbelievably important? Why are you so concerned that we as white people are letting ourselves be "contaminated" with the "ugliness" of other "races" (race is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT. We are ALL human).

The biggest thing is: Do you seriously look for a mate with the beauty of your potential children in mind? I for one look for a man with whom I am compatible with, whom I share interests and ambitions with, and most importantly a man whom I LOVE. Are you seriously putting a limit on whom a person can fall in love with? Your theory that other races are trying to purposely mix with our race for the sole purpose of "benefiting" from making their children more beautiful is such bologna! PEOPLE MARRY EACH OTHER AND HAVE SEX BECAUSE THEY ARE IN LOVE. It's not some kind of inter-racial conspiracy!

Don't be so ridiculous.

The REAL truth is that we are all human beings, all capable of love. No "race" is better than any other "race". WE ARE EQUAL. And as such, we can all fall in love and mate with whomever we desire.

You are the bigot - not I. Wanting to protect your race is not bigotry. Failing to understand the special need for protection of the white, recessive race is both stupidity and bigotry, however.

"I for one look for a man with whom I am compatible with, whom I share interests and ambitions with, and most importantly a man whom I LOVE"

Very touching and romantic. So do most normal, feeling people. You can find those things within the community of your own race. You don't need to participiate in race destruction in order to find love and happiness. Compatibility you most often find among you own so you have no real argument.

I don't control who it is I fall in love with. Currently, I am in love with a young Czech man (blond haired and blue eyed, very beautiful), but I have in the past been very much in love with a man who was half Indian, half German. He had a darker complexion. I still though he was very beautiful (hard to believe?), and he was a wonderful man in spirit.

I simply don't think about people's appearances much when it comes to whom I fall in love with. I don't understand why I should care. I don't limit myself to only white men. I do not see why I should. I, for one, am not concerned about the "purity" of our race. Also, I do not really think that other skin colors or characteristics are "contaminating" our race. I have seen many "mixed" people who are very beautiful. You may not agree, but that's irrelevant. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

In any case, what is the big deal? What exactly is the threat? That our race is going to become "uglier"? Is that really it? It seems trivial to me.


Click here to post a new comment