Aletta and Anna JV from Domai

These are not women, these are GIRLS. You are one nasty old dude.

The models shown are women, not girls. They also look like women. And whereas I am not young, at 34, I am not old either.

Then how are you so fantastically stupid and oblivious to what science actually is? I assumed you were senile or something. I still think you're gross.

Nothing says a 34-year-old cannot be stupid or oblivious to science.

Erik is far from stupid. In fact he is very intelligent. However, being intelligent does not mean you are always right. Also, the most intelligent people have not been right about many things, and less intelligent people have been. There have been people of higher intelligence than Einstein on this Earth, however most will argue that Einstein has contributed a lot more than these people and his contributions were more accurate as well. I feel that something is clouding Erik's true judgement. I really wish he would try to take a few different perspectives on things, kind of open his mind a bit more.

Trying to make people prefer healthy and feminine beauty instead of the sick, anorexic and masculine variety we often see today in the (gay-dominated) media is a sign of good judgment, actually. If there is any cloud around here it is certainly not on HIS judgment.

If there are any minds that should be opened it's the minds of the gay fashion designers who dictate what is feminine and what is beautiful. The thing that scares me is how much ordinary people have been brainwashed. It is very evident just from reading some of the comments on this site.

Some people actually seem to think there is not much wrong with the spooky runway models who look like they're about to die any moment from starvation. If someone like Marilyn Monroe or Sophia Loren would try to model clothes today they would have been laughed off the catwalk and the fashion designers would probably have shouted "no fatties here, please!". Now THAT'S weird. So, why don't YOU try to use some of that intelligence and open mind of yours instead of writing condescending comments about someone who is far superior to you?

I would agree that the stick-thin, masculine models should not be the norm.

However, Erik's judgment of who is beautiful and who is not is not infallible.

Erik,

Just wondering: are you masculine, feminine, or inbetween because;

If you are masculine: Your mother was on the masculine scale, she is not feminine therefore not beautiful and therefore not up to YOUR standards on this website. OUCH! Insulting.I hope your mom doesn't see this...

If you are feminine: Your mother was on the feminine scale. She is probably a beauty. You are probably not very attractive, and you are probably effeminate or homosexual which you obviously despise. Hey, I didn't say there is anything wrong with it. You claim homosexuals dominate the fashion industry and its wrong blah blah blah w/e.

If you are inbetween: Your mother was androgynous. She wasn't a beauty, or ugly/masculine, just INBETWEEN! If your mom was like this she was a plain jane, and not up to your standards as to what is beautiful. You yourself being inbetween probably aren't too attractive, and with this website I don't really see you dating much. hmmm...

So which is it? Because in every way your a loser.... you just lose

May I add:

Look at your high cheekbone section:

All the woman with round dample low cheekbones: smiling. Maybe one isn't smiling, but even then her mouth isn't straight or pouty. Not to mention there is a high level of these women that have bad teeth. Bad teeth=bad and weak bonestructure or what you call "feminine" LMAO! Even braces can change someones bone structure slightly...

Notice how all the masculine supermodels are either pouting or have a very straight face. Also, many times a supermodel will suck her cheeks in a bit making them look more robust and masculine. You said so yourself that high cheekbones are not necessarily masculine. In fact I think that high cheekbones combined with a woman that has high levels of estrogen, is a good combo and makes an attractive person. She will look a tad bit more masculine, because high cheekbones add definition however in combination with her feminity this will be attractive to anyone. I think models do what they are paid to do: Sell. It's working isn't it?

Besides them not being healthy, I have no problem. I agree, the fashion industry should not be allowed to have such stick thin requirements, besides that I have no problem with the way they look. They sell, they do their job, we fall for it. Besides I never wanted to look like a model. But I can appreciate their characteristics masculine or not. I am not a stupid brainwashed girl that wants to be thin because I think its attractive. I am more attractive than most supermodels I see. Eating disorders are usually a result of someone wanting to have control of something in their lives, not necessarily because they want to look like a supermodel.

Dora: If you think Albert Einstein made some good contributions, read this.

Petite: I have never claimed infallible judgment of women’s attractiveness.

Godis: What is the point of me answering how masculine I am? If I am effeminate then you would not expect me to admit it. At the same time it is easy for me to claim to be masculine. Regardless, the masculinity-femininity of my mother is irrelevant. When she was a young adult she looked very similar to Melisande (more of Melisande). i.e., slightly masculinized but still attractive to a lot of people. Looking at my mother’s pictures when she was in her twenties, I see an attractive woman, and my mother even had beauty pageant organizers after her, but her family was conservative so she didn’t participate. Her slenderness did not prove to be a problem in the long run. She gained fat in the right places (bust, hips) after having two sons, and never became overweight. In any case a child couldn’t care less how masculine or feminine his mother is; I certainly don’t; what matters is how a mother treats her child, and I am not complaining.
You said, “I agree, the fashion industry should not be allowed to have such stick thin requirements,” but you are agreeing with someone else, like Emily, on this because I have never made the argument that the fashion industry should not be allowed to employ very thin models.

Yet, men who do not agree are somehow abnormal. Hm.

You're full of shit Erik. You know what I think?

I think you have some very deep self-esteem issues. And I am sorry to say that I have even hypothesized that you might have been sexually abused when you were younger. I have looked up the book:"The Nature of Homosexuality: Vindication for Homosexual Activists and the Religious Right." It is a book by someone named Erik Holland and he touches on the exact same points you do it seems, so logically I believe it is your book? From what I have read from the reviews it seems as if you almost have a phobia of homosexuals. You see them as perverts and a weak link in the scheme of human reproduction and well being. I don't really have an opinion on homosexuals. I believe they are people and I believe they should live as any other person does and that they should have the freedoms as anyone as long as they follow the morals of society, just like anyone else. I truly wonder what has disturbed you to this point. I don't know why people are the way they are and why they do what they do. However, I believe there is a reason for everything. Whatever your reason, I just ask you to search deep within yourself and ask yourself what you are really doing?

I came across this website by accident. When I read it I was shocked. Naturally as I read it I would run up to the mirror to see if I would "measure" up to these standards. The truly ironic part of all this is that I measure up in almost every single way in all honesty. However, the paranoid feelings I would have? My God, it changed the way I looked at beauty and in often times in a good way. I did learn to appreciate feminine beauty from this website, softer beauty. In a way I learned to appreciate aspects of myself I thought before to be weak. One thing I used to hate is that everyone always thinks I am younger than I really am. I now learned I just have very feminine features that are soft, and this site has really made me change the way I look at myself and appreciate myself more. However, at the same time I would always wonder: wait so is my rib cage thick or thin? are my shoulders wide or not? Is my face too defined? I was becoming soo paranoid, even though in all honesty I don't think half those things were wrong with me. Either way if it affects me this much, as I am a pretty average looking girl as you post up on this website. I can just imagine what other women go through when reading this. Women that don't have "population typical" features. Women who do have high cheekbones, wide shoulders, thick waists, height issues. I have a lot of friends from a lot of backgrounds. I don't think they are unattractive even though they don't measure up to YOUR standards. This website just makes people paranoid though. I felt guilty even analyzing my friend's features but I couldn't help it. But I'm over it, because I learned something about beauty. Beauty fades. I'm around 20yrs. old. In a few years I won't be so beautiful. I am just going to appreciate what I have and take care of myself and concentrate on more important things.

As for your mother, I don't know if she was attractive because I have never seen her. But I doubt she ever measured up to these standards. Erik, I doubt you measure up MY standards. And there it goes, the game of life. It's easy to type away at your computer. However, this isn't how true life is, and if this is your reality, I pity you.

As for Emily. I am done with her and this website. I am done arguing about useless things. Emily can have her opinion or hey her FACTS! Because maybe she is 100% correct. Maybe the Nordic people are the most beautiful and others don't come close. Hey! Congratulations! Be fruitful and multiply and have more children. I have some Nordic in me but I'm not pure Nordic! Hey, oh well. Emily can post pictures up and type away to eternity. I wonder when she will realize how much time she has wasted trying to prove something that doesn't matter in the end. I wonder how much longer she will let her ignorance go on.

I am done with this website and the whole beauty thing. Great, we should study what makes one beautiful. However, I won't participate if it is being done in this manner. I do believe your website has good points and it has opened my eyes. However, I do believe it is very pseudo-scientific as well, so that it fits the author's points. And so Erik you will have your website until you are old and withering away. I wonder if you will have children? I wonder what your daughters will look like? Well, they have a lot to live up to after reading daddy's website. Good luck!

And just for my opinion on beauty:

Beauty is just like music. Everyone can agree that certain sounds are pleasant and certain ones are not, even unbearable. However, everyone enjoys a different type of music because everyone is at a different point in their lives. Sometimes their taste changes, sometimes it doesn't. However, everyone is going to like something different. Beauty is not narrow. That does not do justice to Beauty. Beauty is full of possibilities.

Godis,
Your only 20? bless! You sound so mature :)
I am 24 but also get that i am 20 or 22 (not a huge difference hehe) But i actually like it! We really defeated that Emily person didn't we? :D
Just curious where are you from? You really have a good eye for beauty.
Godis i am really concerned with Erik's homophobia as well....I recently read his website (homosexuality info) and was shocked. So many assumptions, stereotypes....He based everything on "extreme" gay porn. I couldn't believe it. Erik if your reading this...I don't participate in many of those activities - is that because my femininity prevents me from doing so? Do you seriously think that most regular gay men do all that stuff?
Ok i know this will sound really "bad" I am sorry to all the Hiv+ gay guys....but i need to ask Erik this. Do you think that the gay guys who participate in those activities in porn are not in their "right state of mind"? Due to medications/disease?
Erik you need to educate yourself before attacking your "opponent".

Wow, Godis, I agree 100%

"I have never made the argument that the fashion industry should not be allowed to employ very thin models."

If you allow it that's the only kind of model they employ. That's the problem. The industry has clearly shown that they are generally incapable of self-regulation, and of using models with normally thin and healthy body shapes.

The use and exploitation of anorexic models who need drugs in order to cope with their life style and lack of food intake should not be allowed, in my opinion.

The use and exploitation of anorexic models who need drugs in order to cope with their life style and lack of food intake should not be allowed, in my opinion.

With that, I have to agree.

Godis: What I have written on homosexuals has nothing to do with self-esteem issues. I figured out some cool things about homosexuality that people interested in the topic would want to read. What got me interested in the topic was a friend of mine asking me to interpret some of the biological literature that he had come across on homosexuals; he had no background in the biological sciences. Figuring it out was a frustrating job and I saw it as solving a jigsaw puzzle with a twist: before the pieces could be put together one had to find them. Few people back then or even for some time to come could have put it together in the manner I did. That was years ago, and I no longer keep up with the latest on homosexuals. In any case your description of my views on homosexuals bears no resemblance to what I have put down in writing, and it is pointless to be clarifying it here.

Let us be very clear about what low self-esteem entails. As far as looks go, people with lower self-esteem are more likely to base their opinion of their attractiveness on what others think whereas those with higher self-esteem are less likely to be swayed by other people’s opinion. Some people have been accusing Emily of having low self-esteem, but a higher opinion of the physical appearance of oneself or one’s group tends to go with higher self-esteem.

You cannot infer my self-esteem level based on what I have written about women’s looks. When you admire some looks in women but not others and you are not a woman, what inference can be drawn about your self-esteem? Some people think that those with low self-esteem are more likely to talk negatively about others in an attempt to make themselves feel better. The reality is that those with high self-esteem are much more likely to do this, and they do it because those who are different from them are an insult to their existence. So if all the negative things I have written about homosexuals has something to do with self-esteem then it has to be high self-esteem. But then why would I allow you or others to leave comments that are abusive toward me? Shouldn’t these insult my high concept of myself?

My overall self-esteem is anywhere from somewhat below normal to normal. This is the way it is. I don't think this is a problem by itself. My main arguments tend to be empirical, including those on homosexuals, and self-esteem does not enter into the picture. I don’t see you and many others counter my arguments with a similar empirical approach.

If this website has made you scrutinize your physical appearance in a more nuanced manner and you fall short of high standards, do not blame the messenger. These high standards are yours. All I have done is bring you more in touch with your intrinsic orientation.

Petite: Your comment – at 02/15/2009 - 01:49 – is another useless straw man.

Peter: This is not a website for discussing homosexuality except for when it is related to the choice of fashion models, some other high profile models and beauty pageant contestants. I have extensively backed my writings on homosexuality with empirical evidence, the vast majority of it from peer-reviewed journals, and you will find answers to your questions by reading what I have written. Don’t waste my time with accusations of bias. Your behaviors do not alter the reality about the behaviors and impact of homosexuals in general or as a whole.

Emily: Some women are naturally very thin. Why should they be legislatively deprived of an opportunity to model? A system can be worked out where the burden of proof is on the fashion industry to show that models employed by it are not starving themselves to maintain their jobs. This can be achieved by random physiological testing of fashion models, at the industry’s expense, especially in the neighborhood of Fashion Week. Some people also push for the silly requirement that the models need to be 16 and up, silly in light of the gay fashion designers’ preferences. Concentrating on models between the ages of 12-16 would afford a better opportunity to come across girls who look more like boys in their early adolescence and are naturally very thin. Whereas an objection to this may be the negative impact it will have on some impressionable girls, the right education – why are high-fashion models typically very thin? – will take care of the problem in most girls.

Hey Erik,
What can i say? you stated "Don’t waste my time with accusations of bias". Why not? after all isn't that good for a scientist? (if you are one). I accuse you because a lot of the things you mentioned in your book are extremely off. Add to that the religious element and i was left wondering...Religion and homosexuality? good choice!
I haven't read your book yet but will be. I have very high self esteem thanks to this website. It made me realize how beautiful i really am! Thank you Erik!
If you really want to "talk" respond to my e-mail. For starters page 31 last paragraph about anal sex. Do you seriously believe most homosexuals don't care about the "stuff". Ever heard of doucher? Why do gay stores sell douchers? I don't wanna get into details here but seriously....
A few Q's
What about altruism and homosexuality?
what about homosexuality in animals? i read somewhere 50% or more bisexuality in Bonobos.
What about increasing anal sex prevalence in Straight porn? which will obviously reflect in real life...

I can keep going...I find it interesting that you wrote the book due to a friend's "challenge"??? When will you write a book with these findings on feminine beauty? Why only restrict it to the website. Ohhh i would love to read that book :)
best seller potential.

In the end Erik i have a Q, I am gay, never been with a woman but i have been attracted to many sometimes sexually. Does that mean i have "narrowly" escaped heterosexuality?

Erik,

Your views on self-esteem are an embarrassment to the concept of self-esteem. I do not have low self-esteem, and yes Emily does. Why? Because if you need to defined YOURSELF based on a group's accomplishments rather than your own, even in the area of beauty, this is a sign of low self-esteem. What did Hitler do to the Germans? He fed on their low-self esteem by making them believe that they as a group were superior because of certain qualities and characteristics they owned. Even those that did not measure up to these were consiered "superior" simply because they belong to this group in terms of genetics/etc. Emily feels she needs to identify with a group, why does she not let her beauty be a reflection of strictly herself rather than her Nordic group? People with low-self esteem like to believe themselves superior because they belong to a certain group, even if they don't have those qualities of the group, they believe that if they share ENOUGH qualities they are entitled to all the titles and accomplishments of that one group. Emily may believe that because her overal structure and pigmentation is Nordic that she is entitled to the "attractive" title that she percieves the Nordic group to hold even though in all honesty she may not measure up to the "attractive" title. She just associates herself with those that do and tries to give herself that title by mooching it off her group.

"If this website has made you scrutinize your physical appearance in a more nuanced manner and you fall short of high standards, do not blame the messenger"
I have never mentioned that I fall short of any standards. The ironic thing is that I am very feminine compared to even your "attractive