crazy people: The comparisons in this entry are about femininity, not sexiness, though with respect to sexy as in sexually appealing, it is obvious who between Gisele and the other women would be found more sexually appealing by lifetime-exclusive heterosexual men. Neither Veronika nor Grace has cellulite or misshapen fat deposits. Additionally, Gisele Bundchen has breast implants, and take another look at her backside before calling it feminine.
You are confounding skinniness with masculinization. There are skinny feminine women around (example). Gisele is not masculine by virtue of her slenderness. A woman does not need to have large breasts in order to look feminine as opposed to androgynous; take a god look around the site. Slenderness does not translate to the inability to have children, inability to sexually please a [heterosexual] man, not being able to breastfeed well or not appealing to exclusively heterosexual men unless the woman happens to be medically underweight. A woman is not more or less of one, regardless of her level of body fat or masculinization.
the girls you are showing as more sexy that Giselle are FAT and not that pretty. I know this sounds shallow but some of the pictures are actually borderline disgusting with all the body fat/cellulite haging from their bodies.
giselle is not my favorite model but it is a disgrace to compare such a firm body with these cows. plus she is pretty feminine for how thin she is -it is true that she doesn't have a very feminine waist she has boobs and a feminine ass.
plus do you realize that by claiming that women have to have huge cow boobs to be really "women" and not androgenoys freaks you are creating a counter-stereotype that is as restrictive and unfair as the super-skinny models that women complain about?
I am actually naturally thin. I am not by anyt means flat chested, but my boobs are not that large. I have curves but they are not extremely accentuated because I am not FAT.
That doesn't mean I am less of a woman tha the cows you present or that I cannot have children or satisfy a man or breastfeed. Nor does it mean that I do not appeal to truly heterosexual men.
Do I need to look like a cow ready for milking to be feminine? EEEEEEEEWWWWW i don't think so and I'm really proud of my body as it is.
Samantha: Whether it would be advisable to gain fat in the abdominal region in order to also gain fat elsewhere and make your breasts and buttocks more prominent depends on your physique, and I don’t know how it looks. For instance, compare woman 1 to woman 2 and woman 3. Heterosexual men strongly attracted to woman 1 will often not be strongly attracted to woman 3, and vice versa. I prefer woman 1 to woman 2 and woman 3 because a tiny waist is more important to me than large breasts. Additionally, unless you are slender, weight gain may diminish your appeal. It is difficult to advise you without looking at your physique.
Melisande: I don’t know whether you are the woman shown above, but will speak as if you are. If you go through the “feminine vs. masculine” page and also the attractive women section, you will realize that your physical appearance is somewhat masculinized. However, you should not take this as a negative. You are filed under “attractive women” here, and as you very well know, you are a popular nude model. This entry is supposed to be obscure, but attracts many hits. Your level of masculinization is typically not an aesthetic problem from the perspective of heterosexual men; after all, some level of masculinization is a correlate of sexiness. If anything, you should be more concerned about body fat level. In some of your pictures, you are on the skinny side of what most heterosexual men prefer. You may be more “girly” than others you know, especially if they happen to be mostly nude models, strippers and women appearing in adult movies since such women are disproportionately masculinized women, but you are not describable as feminine-looking. Once again, this should cause no offense; you know that you are attractive, and not only do I not dispute this, I have provided plenty of anthropological data here to justify the attractiveness designation.
Kristin: You need to learn to distinguish between an “outlier” and an “outright liar”; I called Armani an “outlier.” I didn’t say anything about how much size zero models weigh, and don’t see the point of a number of your comments...talking about South American high-fashion models weighing over 100 pounds, etc. What does it matter why size zero is referred to as such?
See this picture of one Ramos sister who died, showing her doing high-fashion modeling. A fashion model need not die in Paris for it to be relevant. Pressures to strictly comply with the norms are stronger for beginning/struggling/not well-established models; the more well-established ones can get away with some deviations from the norm. You still haven’t told me who was turned away by Armani for being too skinny.
Anorexia stems from serious “trauma and depression, not simply too-skinny models”? What is this? Trauma and depression are correlates of anorexia. The evidence cited implicates exposure to skinny fashion models as one of the factors driving some women toward anorexia, and a number of high-fashion models are forced to practice dietary restraint in order to maintain skinny physiques as part of their job requirements.
The pressures of the industry, though, really started to kick in when she began doing runway shows two years later, and her schedule became so hectic that eating became secondary.
“The next season, I got healthy again, but when I returned to work, my weight was questioned,” she said. “Some fashion houses called my agency complaining that I was two centimeters over [in measurements]. I was extremely upset since I felt very healthy and good about myself.
I agree that the fashion industry did not force her to do fashion modeling, but this is not even an issue; it is obvious from the excerpts above that the industry pressured her to comply with skinny norms in order to model.
Regarding Elle “The Body” MacPherson, what is extraneous, antagonistic or unprofessional about the comment on her curious problem? If “The Body” has a difficult time finding a man, and, by her own admission, not for lack of trying, then it is curious how “The Body” doesn’t have age-appropriate men falling at her feet if a number of the critics of this site are correct about the hotness of fashion models. What is wrong with making an educated guess, not presented as a certain fact, that she is targeting the wrong men?
Daniel: This website is partly concerned with pointing out the masculinization of high-fashion models rather than their shortcomings in general. This site is not about bringing forth “a more positive image of women,” but about promoting feminine beauty among models and beauty pageant contestants. It is not the premise of this site that “masculine women are bad,” but that masculinized women are not appropriate in some settings such as high-profile lingerie modeling. Therefore, there is no implication, by extension, that “transsexuals are bad”. I don’t believe there is anything within this site that is “trying to explain the prevalence of homosexuality.” Regarding the “homophobic” site I have referenced to back up some assertions, the burden of proof is on you to justify the “homophobia” allegation by showing that the referenced arguments are based on prejudice rather than facts or else your accusation will remain baseless.
Sandy: Chloe is on top of my list for removal; I had also planned on removing Klara at some point. I hadn’t thought about Karen, but I suppose she has to go, too. These women were surely at least 18 at the time of the photography; the websites that I got them from are hosted in the U.S. and would not risk being shut down by the FBI as a result of featuring models less than 18. A combination of facial features and posing with balloons in the case of Chloe makes her look between 16-18. I will relocate these women to the blog next time I post an entry titled “cute women.” There are some other women that I also need to remove from the attractive women section, and will do so after I find suitable replacements.
Firstly, let me say, there are many good things about this website. It points out the short-comings of high fashion models (and there are many) and tries to bring forth a more positive image of women. With that said, you come off as insensitive to transsexual women in that you use the term "transsexual" in a disparaging way...if your intention wasn't to be insulting to transsexuals, why then would you call the Victoria's Secret fashion show a "transsexual parade"? Couldn't you simply state that these women too are masculine? I see what you're saying and your intention probably was not to be offensive, but you are, seeing as the premise of this website is "masculine women are bad" and transsexuals are "masculine women" so by extension, "transsexuals are bad". As for the homosexuals, I stand firm in my belief that you're homophobic, especially since when you're trying to explain the prevalence of homosexuality, you link to a website that is extremely homophobic, and if you're truly not homophobic, then i suggest you take down that link.
also---don't you think your comments on elle being unable to find a man are extraneous, antagonistic, and unprofessional. do you know her personally? do you have any idea why she is single? c'mon.
Published: Tuesday, February 06, 2007
At CFDA Health Panel, a Model's Story
By Marc Karimzadeh
NEW YORK — All the experts in the world couldn't have crystallized the controversy of fashion's role in eating disorders better than model Natalia Vodianova.
At Monday's Council of Fashion Designers of America health initiative panel discussion, Vodianova was responsible for the most revealing and touching moments, offering insights into the psychological impact being a model can have.
"Oscar Wilde once said that to love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance," she told the audience of health experts, designers and editors. "But I hope you would agree with me that no relationship comes that easy. Perhaps the trickiest and most complex relationship is the one between you and yourself, your body and your mind. Sometimes it's even possible to be crueler to yourself than you would be to your worst enemy."
Designers like Donna Karan, Gilles Mendel, Tory Burch, Reed Krakoff, Daniel Silver of Duckie Brown, Carlos Falchi and Stan Herman came to the Bryant Park tents to hear the CFDA's strategy in the fight against eating disorders. In addition to guidelines for designers' use of models proposed late last month, the panel — which consisted of Renfrew Center's Susan Ice, KCD's Nian Fish, trainer David Kirsch and nutritionist Joy Bauer — disclosed it was planning several seminars in the next 12 months to educate the industry.
Some audience members from the health field expressed their disappointment that the guidelines didn't go far enough, and Karan raised the heat a little when she suggested the modeling agencies shouldn't be sending models to castings if they are too young or show signs of an eating disorder.
"It is important that we project health as part of beauty and do not encourage unhealthy behaviors," said CFDA president Diane von Furstenberg. "The fashion industry cannot take the blame for eating disorder diseases, but by being aware and sensitive to it, we can change a lot of things
Vodianova, who is the face of Calvin Klein, charted her course from her poor upbringing in Russia, where she viewed food as a necessity rather than an extravagance. Her weight was never something she obsessed about until she arrived in Paris in 2000 to model.
"I was meeting other models and our conversations, more often than not, revolved around diet, gym and weight, which was then totally alien to me," she recalled. "At first, I kind of sneered, thinking this would never affect me, but as I began working, modeling and trying on clothes, I began to pay attention to my body shape for the first time and to compare myself to other models."
The pressures of the industry, though, really started to kick in when she began doing runway shows two years later, and her schedule became so hectic that eating became secondary. At age 19, Vodianova gave birth to her son, Lucas, and afterward weighed 117 pounds, less than before pregnancy. She was catapulted to the top of her game. The stress took its toll. When Vodianova's weight dropped down to 106 pounds, her hair started thinning and she was always nervous and overly sensitive, a doctor friend intervened.
"The next season, I got healthy again, but when I returned to work, my weight was questioned," she said. "Some fashion houses called my agency complaining that I was two centimeters over [in measurements]. I was extremely upset since I felt very healthy and good about myself. I defended myself, saying it was crazy to consider measurements like 33-27-34 to be normal and not to expect some change.
"It makes me think that if I had been weak at the time, I could really have endangered myself," she continued. "At any age we can handle success, but at what age can we handle failure?" One of the guidelines suggests designers should not hire models under 16.
David Kirsch, owner of Madison Square Club, a Manhattan fitness center, recounted his personal experience with eating disorders, having had two sisters who suffered from bulimia and anorexia. "I see body image at the heart of this disease, and how these girls perceive themselves, and as importantly, how they think other people perceive them," he said.
Ice outlined the subjects of the upcoming seminars. "We will talk a lot about the demographics of eating disorders," she said. "Unfortunately, there are those who would simplify the problem and the illness around body weight, when we know that body weight alone, or BMI alone, is not really the only indicator of an eating disorder."
Nutritionist Bauer, who hopes to educate models about healthy eating at the seminars, echoed the sentiment, adding that BMI can be misguided, as some models may genetically have low BMIs and be perfectly healthy, and others who have normal BMIs could be struggling with eating disorders. "We also don't think that it's realistic or effective to start regularly weighing the models," she said. "In fact, the pressure to get weighed may cause more weight anxiety and preoccupation, and could, in fact, result in more disordered behavior."
Fish, meanwhile, raised a red flag at those who feel the CFDA or the health committee should impose rules on designers. "This is their aesthetic choice. What we are taking on is to create a structure inside the current thin aesthetic that educates and promotes the concept of a natural healthy thin."
also none of the women were in high fashion modeling that died--- no evidence of it. some bikini shows and shoots in brazi8l DON'T COUNT. if they were on that track , their agents would have sent them to fashion week--- that did not happen. until girls drop dead in paris, this is all irrelevant. these girls could have been troubled--as anorexia stems from serious trauma and depression, not simply too-skinny models.
at this point, i think you hate admitting when your conclusion was not 100 percent accurate. i could name dozens of south american women who were in high fashion--- all weighed over 100 pounds. point blank.
a size zero model is 34-24-34----that is all. it is called a size zero in america cuz women are so big in the states, they had to encorporate vanity sizing... also most size zero models are about 1115-130, not 90 lbs.
i can't bewlive you would call someone an ou right liar, when you have no idea what weight corresponds with that size... furthermore, i know an armani model. she is skinny, adorable but boyish---but she does eat. she is an ex dancer who is 120 of solid muscle.
her measurements as she stated in the speech was 34-27-34. that is ket to understanding the dilemma. women with more rectangular figures typically have extra inches at the same weight where a hourglass woman wouldn't have it. i know soo many women who are in their late teens who are about that size. also take ino her account she is actually about 5' 7.5", she rreally wasn't that thin---just thin for her. there are many young women who easily maintain small measurements. she pressured herself. she should have quit. no one forced her to stay. she is married to a british nobleman, so she does not need the money. in fact--that is what she did. she stopped doing runway, and only does campaigns. she makes loads of cash with just that too.
Chloe looks on the young side to me, partially based on her posing with balloons, etc. Several could be 18 but possibly younger, including Klara and Karen. Sometimes it has to do with posing these girls to look younger than they really are; which may be troublesome to some of your female readers.
None of the women in your attractive women section are unattractive and all have nice physiques, but some are just do not measure up to the word "beauty" in my opinion, because of ordinary or even plain faces. Perhaps it would be better to email you my opinions on this at a later date.
Daniel: What makes you think that I hate homosexuals and male-to-female transsexuals? Male-to-female transsexuals do not generally look like feminine women. Even the rare few that have managed to acquire a feminine face after extensive facial feminization surgery have not been able to do much about their manly hands, waist-hip proportions, etc. If there are Victoria's Secret models who resemble male-to-female transsexuals, then I don't see how pointing this out portrays the latter as some kind of "ugly" standard. Please understand that ugliness refers to physical defects and abnormalities, which are not present among the likes of Ms. Kurkova or the typical male-to-female transsexual.
I feel as though you have it in for the LGBT community; you speak like someone scorned. Tell me, why is it that you hate homosexuals and transgendered women? Obviously, you have many insecurities about your own femininity and choose to take it out on the LGBT community, for whatever reasons...just know that transgendered women are women too and deserve just as much respect. You seem to use transgendered women as a sort of "ugliness" standard, which is completely false in many cases and perpetuates a negative stereotype.
Kristin: The women were involved in high-fashion modeling, and on their way to greater skinniness in order to make themselves more appealing to fashion designers and end up as first-tier models.
Who was sent back because Armani refused to hire her? Armani is an outlier. After the Madrid ban on ultra skinny models, Armani voluntarily agreed to stop using size zero models, at odds with most others.
Kristin: The source that I cited did not mention the expected measurements; I didn‘t edit them out. Besides, when you talk about “they expected her...,” who are "they"? Obviously the fashion industry, which is thereby appropriately blamed for forcing the woman to be ultra skinny.
the ;oint is that one was actually sent home from europe cuz armani refused to work with her. those girls were lower tier models...and were not high-fashion.
you edited out the measurements she stated they expecte her to have. because of her frame--it was difficult to attain that size without extreme diting.. i know of wonmen who are taller, the same measurements and 118-126.. its the same size i am i the summer ( i walk more then)... so the industry didn't exactly force her...
crazy people: The comparisons in this entry are about femininity, not sexiness, though with respect to sexy as in sexually appealing, it is obvious who between Gisele and the other women would be found more sexually appealing by lifetime-exclusive heterosexual men. Neither Veronika nor Grace has cellulite or misshapen fat deposits. Additionally, Gisele Bundchen has breast implants, and take another look at her backside before calling it feminine.
You are confounding skinniness with masculinization. There are skinny feminine women around (example). Gisele is not masculine by virtue of her slenderness. A woman does not need to have large breasts in order to look feminine as opposed to androgynous; take a god look around the site. Slenderness does not translate to the inability to have children, inability to sexually please a [heterosexual] man, not being able to breastfeed well or not appealing to exclusively heterosexual men unless the woman happens to be medically underweight. A woman is not more or less of one, regardless of her level of body fat or masculinization.
the girls you are showing as more sexy that Giselle are FAT and not that pretty. I know this sounds shallow but some of the pictures are actually borderline disgusting with all the body fat/cellulite haging from their bodies.
giselle is not my favorite model but it is a disgrace to compare such a firm body with these cows. plus she is pretty feminine for how thin she is -it is true that she doesn't have a very feminine waist she has boobs and a feminine ass.
plus do you realize that by claiming that women have to have huge cow boobs to be really "women" and not androgenoys freaks you are creating a counter-stereotype that is as restrictive and unfair as the super-skinny models that women complain about?
I am actually naturally thin. I am not by anyt means flat chested, but my boobs are not that large. I have curves but they are not extremely accentuated because I am not FAT.
That doesn't mean I am less of a woman tha the cows you present or that I cannot have children or satisfy a man or breastfeed. Nor does it mean that I do not appeal to truly heterosexual men.
Do I need to look like a cow ready for milking to be feminine? EEEEEEEEWWWWW i don't think so and I'm really proud of my body as it is.
Samantha: Whether it would be advisable to gain fat in the abdominal region in order to also gain fat elsewhere and make your breasts and buttocks more prominent depends on your physique, and I don’t know how it looks. For instance, compare woman 1 to woman 2 and woman 3. Heterosexual men strongly attracted to woman 1 will often not be strongly attracted to woman 3, and vice versa. I prefer woman 1 to woman 2 and woman 3 because a tiny waist is more important to me than large breasts. Additionally, unless you are slender, weight gain may diminish your appeal. It is difficult to advise you without looking at your physique.
Melisande: I don’t know whether you are the woman shown above, but will speak as if you are. If you go through the “feminine vs. masculine” page and also the attractive women section, you will realize that your physical appearance is somewhat masculinized. However, you should not take this as a negative. You are filed under “attractive women” here, and as you very well know, you are a popular nude model. This entry is supposed to be obscure, but attracts many hits. Your level of masculinization is typically not an aesthetic problem from the perspective of heterosexual men; after all, some level of masculinization is a correlate of sexiness. If anything, you should be more concerned about body fat level. In some of your pictures, you are on the skinny side of what most heterosexual men prefer. You may be more “girly” than others you know, especially if they happen to be mostly nude models, strippers and women appearing in adult movies since such women are disproportionately masculinized women, but you are not describable as feminine-looking. Once again, this should cause no offense; you know that you are attractive, and not only do I not dispute this, I have provided plenty of anthropological data here to justify the attractiveness designation.
Kristin: You need to learn to distinguish between an “outlier” and an “outright liar”; I called Armani an “outlier.” I didn’t say anything about how much size zero models weigh, and don’t see the point of a number of your comments...talking about South American high-fashion models weighing over 100 pounds, etc. What does it matter why size zero is referred to as such?
See this picture of one Ramos sister who died, showing her doing high-fashion modeling. A fashion model need not die in Paris for it to be relevant. Pressures to strictly comply with the norms are stronger for beginning/struggling/not well-established models; the more well-established ones can get away with some deviations from the norm. You still haven’t told me who was turned away by Armani for being too skinny.
Anorexia stems from serious “trauma and depression, not simply too-skinny models”? What is this? Trauma and depression are correlates of anorexia. The evidence cited implicates exposure to skinny fashion models as one of the factors driving some women toward anorexia, and a number of high-fashion models are forced to practice dietary restraint in order to maintain skinny physiques as part of their job requirements.
Kristin: Excerpts from the article you posted:
Quote:
I agree that the fashion industry did not force her to do fashion modeling, but this is not even an issue; it is obvious from the excerpts above that the industry pressured her to comply with skinny norms in order to model.
Regarding Elle “The Body” MacPherson, what is extraneous, antagonistic or unprofessional about the comment on her curious problem? If “The Body” has a difficult time finding a man, and, by her own admission, not for lack of trying, then it is curious how “The Body” doesn’t have age-appropriate men falling at her feet if a number of the critics of this site are correct about the hotness of fashion models. What is wrong with making an educated guess, not presented as a certain fact, that she is targeting the wrong men?
Daniel: This website is partly concerned with pointing out the masculinization of high-fashion models rather than their shortcomings in general. This site is not about bringing forth “a more positive image of women,” but about promoting feminine beauty among models and beauty pageant contestants. It is not the premise of this site that “masculine women are bad,” but that masculinized women are not appropriate in some settings such as high-profile lingerie modeling. Therefore, there is no implication, by extension, that “transsexuals are bad”. I don’t believe there is anything within this site that is “trying to explain the prevalence of homosexuality.” Regarding the “homophobic” site I have referenced to back up some assertions, the burden of proof is on you to justify the “homophobia” allegation by showing that the referenced arguments are based on prejudice rather than facts or else your accusation will remain baseless.
Sandy: Chloe is on top of my list for removal; I had also planned on removing Klara at some point. I hadn’t thought about Karen, but I suppose she has to go, too. These women were surely at least 18 at the time of the photography; the websites that I got them from are hosted in the U.S. and would not risk being shut down by the FBI as a result of featuring models less than 18. A combination of facial features and posing with balloons in the case of Chloe makes her look between 16-18. I will relocate these women to the blog next time I post an entry titled “cute women.” There are some other women that I also need to remove from the attractive women section, and will do so after I find suitable replacements.
What do you mean I'm masculinized? I'm the most girly girl I know!!! you people are weird...
Firstly, let me say, there are many good things about this website. It points out the short-comings of high fashion models (and there are many) and tries to bring forth a more positive image of women. With that said, you come off as insensitive to transsexual women in that you use the term "transsexual" in a disparaging way...if your intention wasn't to be insulting to transsexuals, why then would you call the Victoria's Secret fashion show a "transsexual parade"? Couldn't you simply state that these women too are masculine? I see what you're saying and your intention probably was not to be offensive, but you are, seeing as the premise of this website is "masculine women are bad" and transsexuals are "masculine women" so by extension, "transsexuals are bad". As for the homosexuals, I stand firm in my belief that you're homophobic, especially since when you're trying to explain the prevalence of homosexuality, you link to a website that is extremely homophobic, and if you're truly not homophobic, then i suggest you take down that link.
also---don't you think your comments on elle being unable to find a man are extraneous, antagonistic, and unprofessional. do you know her personally? do you have any idea why she is single? c'mon.
her is the full rticle:
Natalia Vodianova
Published: Tuesday, February 06, 2007
At CFDA Health Panel, a Model's Story
By Marc Karimzadeh
NEW YORK — All the experts in the world couldn't have crystallized the controversy of fashion's role in eating disorders better than model Natalia Vodianova.
At Monday's Council of Fashion Designers of America health initiative panel discussion, Vodianova was responsible for the most revealing and touching moments, offering insights into the psychological impact being a model can have.
"Oscar Wilde once said that to love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance," she told the audience of health experts, designers and editors. "But I hope you would agree with me that no relationship comes that easy. Perhaps the trickiest and most complex relationship is the one between you and yourself, your body and your mind. Sometimes it's even possible to be crueler to yourself than you would be to your worst enemy."
Designers like Donna Karan, Gilles Mendel, Tory Burch, Reed Krakoff, Daniel Silver of Duckie Brown, Carlos Falchi and Stan Herman came to the Bryant Park tents to hear the CFDA's strategy in the fight against eating disorders. In addition to guidelines for designers' use of models proposed late last month, the panel — which consisted of Renfrew Center's Susan Ice, KCD's Nian Fish, trainer David Kirsch and nutritionist Joy Bauer — disclosed it was planning several seminars in the next 12 months to educate the industry.
Some audience members from the health field expressed their disappointment that the guidelines didn't go far enough, and Karan raised the heat a little when she suggested the modeling agencies shouldn't be sending models to castings if they are too young or show signs of an eating disorder.
"It is important that we project health as part of beauty and do not encourage unhealthy behaviors," said CFDA president Diane von Furstenberg. "The fashion industry cannot take the blame for eating disorder diseases, but by being aware and sensitive to it, we can change a lot of things
Vodianova, who is the face of Calvin Klein, charted her course from her poor upbringing in Russia, where she viewed food as a necessity rather than an extravagance. Her weight was never something she obsessed about until she arrived in Paris in 2000 to model.
"I was meeting other models and our conversations, more often than not, revolved around diet, gym and weight, which was then totally alien to me," she recalled. "At first, I kind of sneered, thinking this would never affect me, but as I began working, modeling and trying on clothes, I began to pay attention to my body shape for the first time and to compare myself to other models."
The pressures of the industry, though, really started to kick in when she began doing runway shows two years later, and her schedule became so hectic that eating became secondary. At age 19, Vodianova gave birth to her son, Lucas, and afterward weighed 117 pounds, less than before pregnancy. She was catapulted to the top of her game. The stress took its toll. When Vodianova's weight dropped down to 106 pounds, her hair started thinning and she was always nervous and overly sensitive, a doctor friend intervened.
"The next season, I got healthy again, but when I returned to work, my weight was questioned," she said. "Some fashion houses called my agency complaining that I was two centimeters over [in measurements]. I was extremely upset since I felt very healthy and good about myself. I defended myself, saying it was crazy to consider measurements like 33-27-34 to be normal and not to expect some change.
"It makes me think that if I had been weak at the time, I could really have endangered myself," she continued. "At any age we can handle success, but at what age can we handle failure?" One of the guidelines suggests designers should not hire models under 16.
David Kirsch, owner of Madison Square Club, a Manhattan fitness center, recounted his personal experience with eating disorders, having had two sisters who suffered from bulimia and anorexia. "I see body image at the heart of this disease, and how these girls perceive themselves, and as importantly, how they think other people perceive them," he said.
Ice outlined the subjects of the upcoming seminars. "We will talk a lot about the demographics of eating disorders," she said. "Unfortunately, there are those who would simplify the problem and the illness around body weight, when we know that body weight alone, or BMI alone, is not really the only indicator of an eating disorder."
Nutritionist Bauer, who hopes to educate models about healthy eating at the seminars, echoed the sentiment, adding that BMI can be misguided, as some models may genetically have low BMIs and be perfectly healthy, and others who have normal BMIs could be struggling with eating disorders. "We also don't think that it's realistic or effective to start regularly weighing the models," she said. "In fact, the pressure to get weighed may cause more weight anxiety and preoccupation, and could, in fact, result in more disordered behavior."
Fish, meanwhile, raised a red flag at those who feel the CFDA or the health committee should impose rules on designers. "This is their aesthetic choice. What we are taking on is to create a structure inside the current thin aesthetic that educates and promotes the concept of a natural healthy thin."
also none of the women were in high fashion modeling that died--- no evidence of it. some bikini shows and shoots in brazi8l DON'T COUNT. if they were on that track , their agents would have sent them to fashion week--- that did not happen. until girls drop dead in paris, this is all irrelevant. these girls could have been troubled--as anorexia stems from serious trauma and depression, not simply too-skinny models.
at this point, i think you hate admitting when your conclusion was not 100 percent accurate. i could name dozens of south american women who were in high fashion--- all weighed over 100 pounds. point blank.
a size zero model is 34-24-34----that is all. it is called a size zero in america cuz women are so big in the states, they had to encorporate vanity sizing... also most size zero models are about 1115-130, not 90 lbs.
i can't bewlive you would call someone an ou right liar, when you have no idea what weight corresponds with that size... furthermore, i know an armani model. she is skinny, adorable but boyish---but she does eat. she is an ex dancer who is 120 of solid muscle.
her measurements as she stated in the speech was 34-27-34. that is ket to understanding the dilemma. women with more rectangular figures typically have extra inches at the same weight where a hourglass woman wouldn't have it. i know soo many women who are in their late teens who are about that size. also take ino her account she is actually about 5' 7.5", she rreally wasn't that thin---just thin for her. there are many young women who easily maintain small measurements. she pressured herself. she should have quit. no one forced her to stay. she is married to a british nobleman, so she does not need the money. in fact--that is what she did. she stopped doing runway, and only does campaigns. she makes loads of cash with just that too.
Erik:
Chloe looks on the young side to me, partially based on her posing with balloons, etc. Several could be 18 but possibly younger, including Klara and Karen. Sometimes it has to do with posing these girls to look younger than they really are; which may be troublesome to some of your female readers.
None of the women in your attractive women section are unattractive and all have nice physiques, but some are just do not measure up to the word "beauty" in my opinion, because of ordinary or even plain faces. Perhaps it would be better to email you my opinions on this at a later date.
Daniel: What makes you think that I hate homosexuals and male-to-female transsexuals? Male-to-female transsexuals do not generally look like feminine women. Even the rare few that have managed to acquire a feminine face after extensive facial feminization surgery have not been able to do much about their manly hands, waist-hip proportions, etc. If there are Victoria's Secret models who resemble male-to-female transsexuals, then I don't see how pointing this out portrays the latter as some kind of "ugly" standard. Please understand that ugliness refers to physical defects and abnormalities, which are not present among the likes of Ms. Kurkova or the typical male-to-female transsexual.
I feel as though you have it in for the LGBT community; you speak like someone scorned. Tell me, why is it that you hate homosexuals and transgendered women? Obviously, you have many insecurities about your own femininity and choose to take it out on the LGBT community, for whatever reasons...just know that transgendered women are women too and deserve just as much respect. You seem to use transgendered women as a sort of "ugliness" standard, which is completely false in many cases and perpetuates a negative stereotype.
Brenda: From the perspective of gay fashion designers, Abbie definitely has the face and the "hot" body they are looking for.
Kristin: The women were involved in high-fashion modeling, and on their way to greater skinniness in order to make themselves more appealing to fashion designers and end up as first-tier models.
Who was sent back because Armani refused to hire her? Armani is an outlier. After the Madrid ban on ultra skinny models, Armani voluntarily agreed to stop using size zero models, at odds with most others.
Kristin: The source that I cited did not mention the expected measurements; I didn‘t edit them out. Besides, when you talk about “they expected her...,” who are "they"? Obviously the fashion industry, which is thereby appropriately blamed for forcing the woman to be ultra skinny.
the ;oint is that one was actually sent home from europe cuz armani refused to work with her. those girls were lower tier models...and were not high-fashion.
you edited out the measurements she stated they expecte her to have. because of her frame--it was difficult to attain that size without extreme diting.. i know of wonmen who are taller, the same measurements and 118-126.. its the same size i am i the summer ( i walk more then)... so the industry didn't exactly force her...
Yeah, she hasn't got the face. She also hasn't got the body. All she has is a modeling contract.
Elle definitely looks masculine. Hands down on that. But her facial beauty is superior to that of Monica.
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