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Self-esteem issues related to the feminine beauty site

This website does not intend to affect women’s self-esteem or body-esteem.  However, it does so in many cases, and some clarifications in this regard are necessary.  This is an addendum to a previous attempt to address self- and body-esteem issues related to the goals of this site.

This site aims to promote feminine beauty in the public realm.  The reasons why are described on the FAQ page.  It must be understood that there is a difference between exalting a given look and effectively ignoring all other looks on the one hand, and ignoring a given look and denigrating all other looks on the other.  Either method promotes a given type of look, and this site uses the former method, i.e., exalting feminine beauty rather than denigrating other looks.  In practice, there is a fine line between the two methods since either method requires one to present contrasts, and those prone to seeing a half full glass as a half empty one will see this site as disparaging the looks of the great majority of women.

For the unconvinced, I will argue in defense of the notion that my intent is to exalt feminine beauty rather than demote non-feminine beauty.  Firstly, impressions to the contrary may be a function of the fact that English is not my native language and limited English proficiency makes it difficult to translate my intent with precision.  Secondly, the reader will note the focus of this site on models and beauty pageant contestants.  Celebrities such as movie stars and singers are rarely addressed by me, and usually in response to readers’ comments or if the celebrity has a modeling or beauty pageant contestant past.  Many gossip/tabloid-style websites pick on the looks of celebrities but usually do not bother addressing the looks of fashion models that are little known except to fashion aficionados.  These sites are also not in the business of explicitly promoting a given look, making a strong case that they are particularly interested in picking on ‘undesirable’ looks.  The closest approximation to denigrating looks occurs within this site in the context of illustrating correlates of aesthetics as documented in the scientific literature or contrasting public preferences with the fashion world’s preferences.  Therefore, it should be clear that if trashing various looks is a goal of this site, then it is not the goal of this site.
 
But if denigrating various looks is one of the goals of this site, then what purpose does it serve?  It is not required to promote feminine beauty.  Placing feminine beauty next to other types speaks for itself; there is no need to use demeaning terminology though sometimes it is necessary to call a spade a spade or say that ‘the Emperor has no clothes,’ which may be seen as demeaning by some readers.  One could speculate that I derive a perverse pleasure from speaking ill of most types of looks or derive some sort of satisfaction from trashing the looks of models and celebrities, but if so, it is curious why I don’t generally bother with very well-known celebrities from movies and pick on obscure models (example) instead.  It is also curious why I don’t pick on the obese when a perusal of this website will make one easily estimate that most likely I do not aesthetically appreciate the obese form.  Again, the answer is that this site is not about promoting a look by demeaning other looks.  An alternative motive underlying this site could be that I was dumped by a thin/masculine woman and have decided to take out my frustrations on all such women, but to those so inclined, they should read around this site, especially note materials on statistical distributions (example), and ask themselves if the person behind this site does not have the intellect to avoid extrapolating from the particular to the general, i.e., if one thin/masculine woman is bad then they all are.

The reader should also ask why does this website focus on models and beauty pageant contestants?  If it is about looks then why not address female celebrities such as big-name singers, TV personalities and actresses when doing so is bound to bring in a lot more web traffic and spread the message?  The answer is that this site is about looks in certain contexts.  Models are selected because of their looks and a true beauty pageant should select contestants based on looks.  Both modeling and beauty pageants intersect with the issue of aesthetics, and when it is not possible to find mainstream sources of feminine beauty appreciation, it is time to address the reasons why and work toward seeing feminine beauty in the limelight, which is what this website is about.  I don’t have anything against skinny or masculinized women, and I don’t have problems with using masculinized women in modeling scenarios where there is a need for it, as in using non-feminine women to market athletic products.  In addition, if a company wished to cast thin or masculinized women models for any purpose or someone wanted to organize a beauty pageant focusing on thin or masculinized women, I do not have a problem with it.  However, some people are responsible for making masculinized women de rigueur in the typical modeling scenario or mainstream beauty pageant.  Not even lingerie models have been spared and there is not a single major beauty pageant that focuses on feminine beauty.  Time to do something about it.  My problems are with the people responsible, and these are not the masculinized models/beauty pageant contestants.  The culprits are the male homosexuals who dominate the fashion business.  Those wondering how their influence extends to beauty pageants should understand that the big beauty pageants usually have homosexuals working behind the scenes and that it is not possible to realize big beauty pageants without sponsorship, a lot of it coming from the fashion and beauty industries.

This should hopefully clarify my intentions, but clarifications notwithstanding, some women are bound to be offended by this site and have their self-esteem or body-esteem undermined.  To these women I offer my sincere apology.  Again, it is not my intent to affect how women feel about themselves.  Sometimes it is not possible to come up with a win-win scenario in spite of one’s best intentions, and though I firmly believe that the good that will come out of this site will far exceed the bad, I do realize that some negatives are inevitable, and these shall constitute my sins for which I will have to atone.

Comments

I just thought you ought to know after considering several options including removing my sorry sack of obviously disgusting "eunchoid" genes (I am obiously a failure of womanhood from birth) from the planet by merciful euthanasia. I have decided to make as much money as I can and have surgeries to sterilize myself. Once that sterilization is done I will consider living a life of reclusiveness and wearing a constant full body veil so no one has to look at my repulsive body and face. If possible I am going to try to get the following surgeries because I am not feminine enough. Humeral resection- to shorten the bones of my arms, Silicone hip implants- to widen my hips, breast fat grafting- to give me breasts more in line with the "feminine ideal", at least two rib resections with corset posture fixation-so that I can have a waist meant to be on a woman , pinky toe removal-, bite narrowing-for a narrower mouth, silicone forehead implant-to produce a more rounded forehead, forehead recontouring- to get rid of my brow bone, zygomatic recontouring-to get rid of my high cheeks, eyelash and eyebrow implants-to give me fuller more feminine lashes, brow lift-to give me the higher eyebrow larger eye effect, eye lift-to give me a larger more foreward eye effect, chin recontouring-to taper my chin and reduce its height, mandibular resection of bone and muscle plus botox-to remove my jaw angle, canine implants lumineers and whitening- because beautiful women have youthful teeth, removing the excess skin between my fingers- to give me longer more feminine fingers, sclerotherapy- to remove the prominent veins in my legs arms hands and to treat colored veins near the surface, rhinoplasty- to give me a more nordic nose, minilipo- to contour my whole body and accentuate curves, Neck bracing- to lengthen my neck, throat cartilege trimming- to give my throat a smaller more feminine look, spironolactone- to block out what little androgens I may be producing, estrogen pills to augment my body's estrogen production, forward cheek implants- to give me nice round apple cheeks, I can't do anything as of yet aout my broad shoulders Perhaps a collar bone resection, If only I had begun taking super doses of estrogen and androgen blockers before I reached menarche. I will also bleach all my body hair and completely remove what I cannot bleach blonde, augment my upper lip with fat to make it fuller, get light permanent makeup around my eyes to bring them more foreward, bleach my skin, get light permannet makeup on my lips to make them fuller and pinker, get light permanent makeup on my nipples and the visible mucous membranes of the vagina to make them pinker, get a labiaplasty because nordic women must have pretty vaginas that are tighter. So a vaginal rejuvination as well. I will try to see of they can't widen my hips wih some sort of internal brace. Also I will have surgery to make my belly button more attractive. I will have needling and laser done to minimize my scars resurface my face and skin, have cellulite maintenance treatments and antioxidant injections (they seem to work for cindy crawford). Also I will be eating a very plant based clean diet.

And obviously since I was born disgusting I will be cutting my tongue out so I can not communicate because I am not worthy to and I will then drop out of work and school and do menial labor for someone like you if possible and when they get tired of my sorry ass they can have me euthanized.

Obviously this is the only answer. All non nordic women should kill themselves or get themselves fixed as soon as possible so no one breeds with them they are all ugly bitches who deserve to die. They should cover themselves and get surgery.

That's all I can think of and the compilation of my research. Please understand I am completely serious and am in no way mocking this site. This has been a good source of research for me and what has made me realize how worthless I am. I dumped my boyfriend so he would not be infected with me. I am a white typical model type looking girl.

Also I am probably dumber than the "feminine ideal" as well so please excuse all my worthless prattle and its many many mistakes.

Mother of… Honey, see a shrink ASAP!!! Please take my advice seriously and don't dismiss it as a joke.

You're telling her to see a shrink?? Hahahahahaha.

The owner of this site is clearly a homosexual. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it makes you a poor judge of female beauty. Please delete your site and euthanize yourself.

I feel as if you may be a racist. You believe nordic women are ideal don't you? I would have to say that Nordic women are the second most masculine women in my book right behind... won't say.

I just have a question and I wasn't sure where else to direct it. You stated "Every now and then I come across some attractive women that unfortunately have small breasts, like the two women below, and am left lamenting that if only these women had normal breasts, I would have put them in the attractive women section." So, women with small breasts are unattractive? You're trying to promote "feminine" beauty, yet you're putting "beauty" in a very small margin. Yeah, its nice that you're trying to teach people that more body types than those of models are attractive. But those models are women too. They might work to get those bodies, but their basic body shapes are theirs and their own.

As a bisexual woman with small breasts, I can tell you that my boyfriend loves my breasts and I find small breasts attractive. I find large breasts attractive, yeah, but I also like small breasts.

Who are you? Are you a man or a woman? Do you work in the fashion industry? What makes you think you have any right to tell women how they should look?

Baker Bob is right, you are racist. What you're doing is no different than the study of eugenics. Look it up. It's not a compliment. The skull thing? Dead on. Good job, Hitler.

Miss Holloway: You answered your first question before asking this question. You quote me as stating that I sometimes come across attractive women with breasts too small to put them in the attractive women section. So how are these women unattractive to me when I started out describing them as attractive? Putting too many women with very small breasts in the attractive women section – and there are some such women there – is not consistent with promoting feminine beauty.

Beauty is by its very nature exclusive and exists within a narrow range.

As to who I am, I am from an extraterrestrial species that has 3 sexes and hence the male or female designations do not apply, and I don’t work in the fashion industry. This means that you must evaluate my arguments based on the evidence I offer. And please, one doesn’t have to be a dog to understand a few things about dogs.

This website is not telling women how they should look. It is about promoting some looks.

The goals of this website do not remotely resemble the eugenics movement, which wasn’t started by Hitler or the Nazis. The eugenics movement was started and promoted by then counterparts of people that we today refer to as leftists or liberals or progressives. And if skull diagrams equal eugenics then, keeping in mind that very few people are into skull diagrams, I suggest you concern yourself with the large number of Nazis running around in the form of Socialists (Socialism was a central Nazi platform), animal rights people (Hitler had high regard for vegetarianism and mostly practiced it), environmental rights people (The Nazis expressed strong interest in a healthy environment), Volkswagen Bug owners (the Bug was commissioned by Hitler), etc.

Baker bob is a malicious individual. He has left comments under several aliases. Here he accuses me of believing that Nordic women are ideal, but it is common observation that attractive and unattractive women are found in all populations, and he ignores my extensive argument that attractiveness cannot be objectively compared across ethnic groups.

Erik, you said "I don’t have anything against skinny or masculinized women, and I don’t have problems with using masculinized women in modeling scenarios where there is a need for it, as in using non-feminine women to market athletic products."

Women cannot be athletic and feminine at the same time? If a woman wants to look feminine, should she refrain from exercise in order to not look like the masculinized models you think should be used to promote athletic products?

You mentioned that feminine women that are considered attractive by 'lifetime-exclusive heterosexual men' (or whatever you call it) should be used to advertize lingerie and clothing targeted towards women because such clothing are indirectly targeted at men and women are supposed to be buying the clothing in order to attract men. Are women who buy athletic gear and exercise considered unattractive to heterosexual men?

Jules: Women can be athletic and feminine at the same time, but feminine women will tend to be underrepresented among the better performing female athletes for obvious reasons: larger breasts, wider hips, lesser muscle mass, narrower shoulders and other more feminine features generally diminish athletic performance. You would want the women used to market athletic products to look like they are good athletes and hence using feminine women for this purpose would generally not be the best approach.

Women should not refrain from exercise to avoid looking masculine; regular exercise/physical activity is highly recommended because of its numerous fitness and some health benefits. It is not like the only valid forms of exercise are those that build muscle mass and heavier bones. Besides, some women will improve their looks by gaining some muscle mass.

Women who wear athletic gear or exercise are not unattractive to men. There are surely a large number of pictures of women in athletic gear that many men like. Physical appearance, not behavior or the minutiae of dress, is relevant to this site. To me, feminine beauty dressed to kill (as in a female version of Rambo) is more appealing than a seductively-posing masculinized woman in a bikini.

I've been doing a research on the psychology of modelizers--men who only date high-fashion models. This website is refreshing; it reassures my argument that ego-thirsty, power-driven men are attracted to status, not beauty. High-fashion models are status symbols, not feminine beauty in any way. Although there are a few bones to pick, you certainly provide some illuminating information.

Erik, if you think women who advertise athletic equipment should look like good athletes, thus being more masculine in appearance, why do you object to the models used in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue? It is a sports magazine aimed towards people interested in sports and athletic achievement, and you said it yourself that more feminine features diminish athletic performance, so it seems rather appropriate for the magazine to use women that are more athletic and look it too rather than the glamour models you promote. Glamour models in a sports magazine is inappropriate. There are other magazines out there that promote glamour models.

This whole site is crazy. I would be angry at this creepy man telling us what is beautiful and what isn't, except that he is obviously not able to get a woman "masculinised" or otherwise and therefore has a lot of time on his hands (or is it just the one, since the other one is "on it") to write bizarre polemics based on porn and fashion models. Just so you know "Erik", neither of those groups represent normal everyday women. More power to the women who get this crazy man's money from his copious porn site subscriptions! hahaha!

Just wondering, for the sake of a laugh, is Brigette Wilson Sampras "masculinised" or not? teehee

Jules: I have posted two articles on the annual Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue, and in no case have I objected to the appearance of female athletes in it regardless of how feminine they are. Who would object to seeing Maria Sharapova or Amanda Beard in underwear in the magazine? But the point of the SI swimsuit issue isn’t to focus on female athletes or athletic-looking women but on eye candy for men instead. SI primarily recruits from the world of modeling and hardly any of these models are among ranked athletes. Several SI models are too slender, more specifically not having enough muscle mass, to be good athletes. Take a look at Heidi Klum and Quiana Grant in the 2008 Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue and tell me how athletic they look.

Sally: Your comment is pointless. Haven’t I clearly explained that this website does not concern itself with the appearance of normal everyday women? It is about models and beauty pageant contestants. Several of these models have been taken from adult-oriented sites, but this is because of lack of alternatives, as clearly explained in the faq section. I rarely use porn models, and I don’t subscribe to any sites to get the pictures I use.

You must learn to not shoot the messenger. The essence of this site is what most people find beautiful in women, not what I find beautiful in women. Bridgette Wilson-Sampras is obviously a masculinized woman compared to women in general.

Actually Erik, I there is nothing that I must (or even could) learn from you. You seem like a psycho. How much of your time do you spend a day on this site?

If you are talking about beauty pageant winners and models, who are they "masculinised" in comparison too?

Your site contains numerous pictures of nude or semi nude women (and they arent "Art nudes" by any means), therefore they are porn. I think you must learn to not shoot the messenger! The message from most women is clear, nobody gives two hoots about what you think its beautiful or not. We do give two hoots (and so do alot of men, actually) about how offensive it is that you are a self styled expert and you are quite offensive about certain types of women, and even going so far as to call the men who like them "homosexuals" when really it's just your own personal taste. You know, Jim Jones actually claimed he was the only heterosexual in the world (even though he is known to have engaged in anal sex with men!)...I wonder if you can see the parallels here?

So do you currently have a girlfriend or wife?
hahahah! Don't worry, I already know the answer...(oh and someone you chat to on the net and have never met doesn't count), and if by chance you have a wife or gf, I feel sorry for them, because you obviously neglect them in order to further your bizarre agenda here..(that and that they were probably bought from Russia or somewhere like that)

Erik, SI have used known athletes in their swimsuit issues such as Maria Sharapova and Amanda Beard, and in their latest issue, racecar driver Danica Patrick. However, despite their good looks, they do not pose as well for photographs as professional models who pose for a living. Heidi Klum and Quiana Grant look very fit. Women do not look like that by starving themselves, but by eating healthy and exercising. It is very difficult for women to build large muscle mass especially when they naturally have a slender build. Next thing you know, you will say that Olympic gold medalist Kerri Walsh is too slender to be a good athlete.
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Thankyou, Erik, for your thought provoking ideas. The fact that some people are unable to cope with different opinions and immediately tackle the person rather than the ideas is predictable.

Despite the inevitable criticism and rancor that such a topic unleashes it is great to have some opinion and discussion on the matter.
I believe you have been very brave to express your opinions and attempt to do it in a cogent way. Your thoughts about homosexual perceptions of female beauty make sense from my own limited experience.

I would encourage everyone who reads the content of your site to reflect about the matter in terms of our children and, if you are getting cross, just put down your arms to think it through.
Of course everyone will have a different take on this (that's a given), so we don't need to attack anyone (as if that actually does anything positive anyway).

Better to use this material, I feel, as a catalyst for open thought.
So let's all have our say with dignity. Why not disagree, verify and qualify to explore this? Thoughtful discourse is good.

Personally, I have a richer appreciation of beauty in women so the paradigm of beauty used here is too limiting for me. But good on you for making a serious effort to raise these matters. Be nice to also add a section on male beauty... or does that cross a cultural line in the US?

Christian

I just recently wandered in here from a Google image search, and, having read the writings, feel I must commend you for creating an excellent website, free of the modern egalitarian nonsense that is stifling everyone of genuine sense and decency.

Some of the comments here are typical. Wherever the assertion is made that people are not equal, be it in beauty or mental ability, the envious begin their obviously motivated attacks, and the I-am-a-paragon-of-morality-unlike-you moral masturbators start their pleasuring.

I have compassion for the envious, as envy is the worst feeling ever, and I would, if a button were presented to me that to push would render everyone beautiful, push it, but my compassion ends when they begin, as most do, to cut others down to soothe their feelings, or make unreasonable demands of others, such as wanting the truth to be repressed, to others' detriment, because it pains them to know it.

I can see your point, and your argument. But it will inevitably affect some women, and you have to accept that. You can't just brush off other people's feelings just because they don't share your opinion.

For example, I do admit that I felt a bit ugly because of the small breasts thing. Sadly, we don't choose our bodies. And of course there are LOTS of women with small breasts who will feel bad because of such comments. Because men don't have breasts, so they will NEVER understand just how important are breasts for women, both physically and emotionally.

You just have to accept it, and move on. Don't make so many excuses for it. It affects us, it's a fact of life. Skip the whole "this site is not intended to hurt your body image..." and you'll get a lot less hating. It's pointless. Don't tell us not to be affected, so skip this whole page, it's pointless because it will happen, no matter how many disclaimers you write.

What? said:
"Because men don't have breasts, so they will NEVER understand just how important are breasts for women, both physically and emotionally."
-
However, men DO lose their hair, which is considered MUCH more emotionally damaging than small breasts to a woman. First, the typical man who loses his hair in male-pattern baldness HAD hair to start with, then slowly watches as he loses it. Women with small breasts have always had small breasts, so there's no traumatic mutation over time.

When men lose their hair, it is said to be the equivalent in emotional trauma to that of a women losing a bra-size every year or two. . . until they're gone.

THIS, women will never understand.

Ha, ha, solo, how ignorant! There's also woman hair loss in woman pattern baldness. Typical, anyway, men always belittle women's issues, thinking theirs are more important.

I wish someone would do masculinebeauty.info, just to make men feel as crap as some women feel while reading this. How typical of men, really! It's not enough for us to not have the perfect WHR, the perfect breasts, yes, the perfect HAIR, to remove hair from unwanted places, to be thin, to not be too thin, to be this tall, to not be this tall, to be blonde, etc, etc.

I hate when men complain of hair loss, because honestly Solo, hair loss is the least of your problems. I wonder how would men feel if there were gigantic billboards advertising shoes (which seems to be one of the favourite things for women to buy), featuring guys in underwear with HUGE, yes, HUUUUUGE bulging packages showing through their briefs.

FYI, women lose hair too. I have less hair than normal, but what can I do? I have small breasts, and I have the pleasure to be subjected to the gaze of every man who sees me to judge me, especially since I have a less than feminine look, with my strong jawline and small breasts. I have to accept that every time I do a ponytail, men and women will always tell me in shock "OMG! you have SO little hair!". Ando the same thing with my breasts.

So shut up, solo. God, I hate men and their body issues. It's just hair dammit. There are hot bald guys. There is such a thing. Taye Diggs is just one example.

The day men have to feel self conscious about their breasts, butts, legs, hair, hair removal, and having children and the disastrous consequences it has on one's body, then we'll talk. Because, you know, men typically don't deal with cellulite either. They don't deal with stretch marks, or getting stretch marks after bearing your freaking kid for nine months! only to get ugly stretch marks, and sometimes, loose skin. Oh, and don't even get me started on the fact that sometimes after giving birth, the vaginal canal needs surgery because it gets too loose and that causes urinary incontinence. Or, if you prefer a C-section you have to deal with an ugly scar and not being able to lift heavy weights for like a year.

Yes, men have it hard too, but don't belittle women's concerns. We have to deal with everything this site mentions, all at once. Breasts, butt, hair, face, hair removal, hips, waist, and some things can't be changed. And sometimes we're teased, or judged. But if we comment on a guy who is balding, or a guy who has a small penis, ohhhh noo, poor guy, don't play with his self esteem like that! Bullshit, it's all bullshit.

Women try to look good for men, like you, Solo. So shut up and stop complaining because we try to do our best, and we get frustrated with things such as breast size, because some idiotic men degrade us if we're not at least a C cup.

(BTW, Erik, this has nothing to do with you, my "whining", as some people would call it, was adressed to Solo)

<"I wish someone would do masculinebeauty.info, just to make men feel as crap as some women feel while reading this">

The point of this site seems to be promoting a different feminine ideal than popular culture is. If your body shape is that of a "beautiful" woman according to modern popular culture - no doubt you'll feel this site is insulting.

If your body shape is more to Erik's ideals - more rounded softer faces, and a bit of an hour-glass shape - you really shouldn't be insulted.

For me no matter what the size: 8 , 12, 16 or more, I like to see an hourglass figure. A-cup or D-cup, big booty or small, I like to look up from the feet to see that curvy swell of hips, then moving narrower to the waist and then out again as it goes up. And big, captivating eyes.

I don't like the supermodels of popular culture - who wants to hug or kiss a bag of bones?

<"I have to accept that every time I do a ponytail, men and women will always tell me in shock "OMG! you have SO little hair!". And do the same thing with my breasts.">

Don't accept it. If people are rude, call them on it, loudly and publicly. Shame them for being rude, because apparently they didn't know it, and so they are begging to be educated. It's a teachable moment - use it.

We all have different ideals of beauty, but don't let any one put you down. "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." (Eleanor Roosevelt)

Don't consent.

James,

I am truly delighted that we still have people as wise and educated as you are! Thank you! You give me some hope for this world, seriously!

I'm surprised at the anger being directed at this site's creator. He really isn't saying anything groundbreaking: the basic point seems to be that the heavy involvement of homosexuals in the fashion industry seems to have begun mandating a standard of female beauty that is influenced by those masculine traits that would be attractive to homosexuals. Hard to argue with on its own merits. The guy defends his points pretty well.

He said "Beauty is by its very nature exclusive and exists within a narrow range." I am glad someone is willing to actually say this. I'm pretty tired of the "everyone is beautiful" game. If everyone is, no one is. It's like saying everyone is tall.

For people who come in and bash the guy, claiming the carefully written site somehow means he can't get a woman or whatever...think hard about the fact you're trying to bash a guy for making a site that is basically about liking feminine women with big chests and so forth. Do you think childish insults are going to change someone's mind on that? Good luck; you're pissing into the wind.

Surprised anger,

Well, looking at the comments here, the majority seemed to be pissed off with the website and have voiced their opinion and majority reflects reality.

So why are you surprised?

If you think the people who leave comments represent a "majority" of thought, you've never had to design a statisitcally accurate test.

Not everyone uses the internet.
Not everyone who does would find this site.
Not everyone who does find this site would leave a comment.
- So you are reading a highly selective group and calling it the "majority". It is not.

Each person has their own ideal of beauty - and it appears to change over time.
If you look at pictures from 50 years ago, skinny girls are not the subject of choice.
If you look at paintings from 1, 2 or 3 centuries ago, skinny girls are not the subject of choice.
Sculptures from Greek and Roman times are not of skinny girls.

People's idea of feminine (and male) beauty is influenced by what they see portrayed as beautiful.

Advertising is training you to like a certain ideal - you can go along with it, or you can fight it. Most people don't even realize they are being affected.

Ok, so I don't think I'm beautiful by media standards. But I'm also not feminine enough according to this site either. Fine. So it's a universal truth that you need to be an hourglass to be a beautiful woman. But what happens when you didn't choose your damn genes? Is it my fault that I'm UGLY? Because if I'm not feminine enough, then if I'm not beautiful, then I'm UGLY.

I'm not an insecure girl with huge breasts, ugly dyed blonde hair and narrow hips (ie. Playboy wannabe). No. I have huge hips and small breasts, and I'm in my normal BMI, but not quite as thin as the models placed here. As I said, I don't have much hair. My jaw line is a bit strong. I'm not blonde. I'm latina. My skin isn't white.

Great. How am I supposed to feel good about myself if I'm being confirmed that I'm ugly?

James, congrats on you for being a man. Congrats for loving the curves of feminine women. Congrats on not having to feel bad about yourself because of a website that is telling you that your body is simply not enough.

Oh, but I'm a woman. And women are nagging bitches. And women take everything too personally and they shouldn't, they shouldn't feel bad because a bunch of "science" men are "promoting" this ideal of beauty. An ideal that we just can't achieve.

FFS people, NOBODY likes feeling ugly. Just as I have to accept that "not everyone can be beautiful, because beauty is narrow", just accept my feelings of inadequacy because I'm being told I'm ugly, and I didn't choose to. I'm not attacking Erik, I think I already stated that. Of course I know a waif is not attractive, I don't even buy women's magazines or strive to look like Adriana Lima, I'm not an idiot, I KNOW HOURGLASSES ARE WHAT MEN WANT. It just hurts not to be one. Because I look like a stupid pear.

Still, I think that just for scientifical interest, it would be nice to know what the standards of male beauty are. Not to make any man feel inadequate, but just to know why is it that wide shoulders and being tall are considered attractive in a man.

I want to answer to "What?"
You say "not everyone can be beautiful, because beauty is narrow" : THAT'S NOT TRUE, beauty is wide
You say "HOURGLASSES ARE WHAT MEN WANT" : THAT'S NOT TRUE
WOMEN ARE WHAT MEN WANT

I'm a man and sure I like hourglasses BUT that's not important : lot of a girls whith flat breast or flat ass are nevertheless beautiful. Sometimes, just a mooth or a nice haircut or beautiful eyes makes a woman entirely beautiful.
Women are what men like, so if you are a woman, you're on the right way.

It is easy for a woman to be beautiful.

Vincent,

From the way you think I can see why the best lovers are from France! Maybe if Erik thought like that he would get laid more often...
jk Erik, just a joke to lighten up the mood lol

I get what you're saying, Vincent, but those weren't exactly my words, those are things that posters above me said, and those are practically the main ideas in this site.

J SAID:

He said "Beauty is by its very nature exclusive and exists within a narrow range." I am glad someone is willing to actually say this. I'm pretty tired of the "everyone is beautiful" game. If everyone is, no one is. It's like saying everyone is tall.

JAMES SAID:

For me no matter what the size: 8 , 12, 16 or more, I like to see an hourglass figure. A-cup or D-cup, big booty or small, I like to look up from the feet to see that curvy swell of hips, then moving narrower to the waist and then out again as it goes up. And big, captivating eyes

what?,

however just because many of those people say this, including erik, does not make their statements objective...

I am very confused because I personally am a very slender woman with C cup breasts, a small waist, large butt, hourglass figure, light, blonde hair, dark hazel-brown eyes, round face, fine features. However, I am athletic, I can run fast and I can hit a baseball. I get straight As. People say my mannerisms are very strange because they are very feminine with a masculine twist as though I am dominating but submissive in everything I do. I have very feminine features but can act and be very masculine as well. I have a high sex drive too. How do you explain this? I look like the women you have on this site, very soft and curvy yet toned and not flabby... So what am I?

To "What?"
Ok if you want to be a pinup or a pornstar or Miss World, you have to be hourglass shaped and to have a feminine face, that's ok.

But one can be very attractive without this, one do not need to have the perfect body to be beautiful.

You must keep in mind that men and are not tyrannical about feminine beauty.

Call me crazy, but shouldn't women and even young girls just define beauty based off of their own terms?

This site may have all the statistics, testimonials and etc, but this site does not thoroughly and completely define femininity and beauty and it should not. Beauty is like truth, it's relative. According to Western society, I'm ugly. To many African cultures, I'm frickin' hot. So what?

The way I see it, (my opinion here) everyone is beautiful, but in numerous, diverse ways. The fact that someone who is considered outside of the norm of beauty can be considered beautiful just from that. There is no such thing as ugly because chances are someone out there would find that person hotter than Las Vegas weather.

So to Laura who is very similar to me, we are beautiful, feminine, masculine, dominant and submissive.

This site should have a disclaimer that states that not all beauty and femininity lies on the outside, the majority of it is in the inside, thus not all beauty and femininity are created equal.

So ladies LOVE yourself and try not to over-analyze yourselves and others. If people don't like the way you look or if they say you act too girly or not enough, give them the bird! Or maybe just tell them that beauty is relative and then give them the bird. Lol! My guys, the same thing can be applied to you too.

Call me crazy, but shouldn't women and even young girls just define beauty based off of their own terms?

This site may have all the statistics, testimonials and etc, but this site does not thoroughly and completely define femininity and beauty and it should not. Beauty is like truth, it's relative. According to Western society, I'm ugly. To many African cultures, I'm frickin' hot. So what?

The way I see it, (my opinion here) everyone is beautiful, but in numerous, diverse ways. The fact that someone who is considered outside of the norm of beauty can be considered beautiful just from that. There is no such thing as ugly because chances are someone out there would find that person hotter than Las Vegas weather.

So to Laura who is very similar to me, we are beautiful, feminine, masculine, dominant and submissive.

This site should have a disclaimer that states that not all beauty and femininity lies on the outside, the majority of it is in the inside, thus not all beauty and femininity are created equal.

So ladies LOVE yourself and try not to over-analyze yourselves and others. If people don't like the way you look or if they say you act too girly or not enough, give them the bird! Or maybe just tell them that beauty is relative and then give them the bird. Lol! My guys, the same thing can be applied to you too.

Call me crazy, but shouldn't women and even young girls just define beauty based off of their own terms?

This site may have all the statistics, testimonials and etc, but this site does not thoroughly and completely define femininity and beauty and it should not. Beauty is like truth, it's relative. According to Western society, I'm ugly. To many African cultures, I'm frickin' hot. So what?

The way I see it, (my opinion here) everyone is beautiful, but in numerous, diverse ways. The fact that someone who is considered outside of the norm of beauty can be considered beautiful just from that. There is no such thing as ugly because chances are someone out there would find that person hotter than Las Vegas weather.

This site should have a disclaimer that states that not all beauty and femininity lies on the outside, the majority of it is in the inside, thus not all beauty and femininity are created equal.

So ladies LOVE yourself and try not to over-analyze yourselves and others. If people don't like the way you look or if they say you act too girly or not enough, give them the bird! Or maybe just tell them that beauty is relative and then give them the bird. Lol! My guys, the same thing can be applied to you too.

Sorry about the three replies. Wasn't sure that my reply got through. Sorry!

The sight is virtually awash with European women held up as the "ideal" and their features also. It is all quite-small-minded and there seems to be a white-supremacist agenda, if not Euro-Centric assumptions, thinking that the whole world begins, ends and revolves around our own subjective opinion. I dont have to look like that in order to be attractive nor do I want to: I dont need to be accepted by people with narrow minded thinking! Its very unkind to compare peoples, inc. those from different races and pit them off against each other in crass judgements. God made us as we are! The world is a big and diverse place! Its a waste of time.

I have to agree. It's a complete waste of time. At first, reading the posts of EmilyandErik, I was frustrated that there was so little I could do to get a sane point across. They tend to ignore questions whose answers would place them in a negative light, and basically show them to be body and color fascists seeking to substitute their own agenda. Yeah, I said it... It's incredibly frustrating that someone could be out here, on the net, using outmoded and tainted, scientifically unsound terms like Nordic, Slavic, and Aryan, (all while ignoring other scientific markers of attractiveness)... Posting pictures of brown and black skinned women which look more like post mortem shots of Sarah Baartman (may her soul rest in peace)"for contrast," and measuring and defining female beauty as if it is something that could be quantified every single time. (Such actions smacks of someone looking to conquer and quantify that which has power over him, namely, female beauty). At first, I was frustrated. Until I realized how frustrated Erik must be, one man at his computer, trying to save the world's women from homosexuals so he can have them for himself. Trying desperately to turn a media stampede. It won't happen. Erik's theories are not particularly relevant to the fashion industry. Even if he were completely right (he does make some good points), and didn't come across as a bit of an ass (he does), he still wouldn't have enough of a say to make any headway. My advice to you DN is to take Erik as lightly as any runway show, something which has no bearing on real life, real faces, or real bodies. Only, a runway show is much more vibrant and fun.

Thank you brownielocks.

I dont believe anyone in the fashion industry will take it seriously enough to do what the Website creater wants because the "scientific" supporting information used is outdated, providing support for those who wish to be racist. Very few of us are 100% any nationality if any, so I do not see why there is time for people to wage campaigns on the idea of two people from another race falling in love and having a baby. Why do we have to erect false ideas in order to feel better than one another? "Race", "colour", "wealth", "intelligence", "beauty"... I have the news on here and in other countries they dealing with wars, natural disasters, poverty and oppression. Here in England, Im sure many children are ok, but some are dropping out of the (education)system causing havock, I recently met a woman who lost a baby and there are people whose marriages have broken down, leaving children to deal with seperation and this is in England. There are more important things to be concerned with, even in our immediate sphere of day-to-day life.

While I by no means think that every person is objectively beautiful, I do think the restrictions on this site are way too narrow and are quite ridiculous. There are all shapes and sizes that people find beautiful, and it is much more difficult to classify than with the simple restrictions provided here.

Besides, the examples provided don't even make sense with the restrictions given. The avg. hip to waist ratio of a Playboy model is actually .68. This is BELOW the .7 or below ratio that it was thought most men prefer. Yes, Playboy models (even with their fake boobs, which I don't like), actually DO have the hour-glass figures that you say are the ideal for beauty.

Culture also DOES play a role in the perception of beauty, like it or not. (I mean general perception of beauty, not just industry standards set by a few presumably homosexual men.) In other centuries, heavy women were in vogue. Corsets altering the very structure of the body were once considered the ultimate in beauty, as was foot-binding. In the 1920s it was flat chests, and in the 1950s hour-glass figures were all the rage... then Twiggy... then the supermodels of the 80s and 90s... then waif-like, heroine chic... now we're back to big breasts again - and in culture (outside the fashion mainstream - but not as much as you'd think), real women have curves.

You may find this article to be of interest: http://www.livescience.com/health/081203-hourglass-figure.html

This particular quote stood out in terms of the role of culture in the perception of beauty in regards to mate choice:

""Waist-to-hip ratio may indeed be a useful signal to men, then, but whether men prefer a [waist-to-hip ratio] associated with lower or higher androgen/estrogen ratios (or value them equally) should depend on the degree to which they want their mates to be strong, tough, economically successful and politically competitive," Cashdan writes."

Next, you have to take into consideration how much these models are air-brushed. Even most of the women you claim are masculinized(sp) have had their waists airbrushed to appear smaller in comparison to their hips, often altering the way the natural ribcage could appear so much as to be unrealistic no matter how much weight is gained or lost.

To me, the comparison of this site to eugenics is absolutely fair. Of course, maybe I'm just bitter as a result of my naturally small-chested, wide-rib-caged, narrow-waisted and underweight frame. (Hopefully, I won't be underweight for long... been under a lot of stress this year and seem to keep losing the pounds once I put them on... sigh)

FWIW, I know that most avg women out there think that women like me have it easy... simply because I'm thin. The truth is, I don't fit the ideal shown in the fashion industry and in the media any more than they do. For every woman who wishes she had a smaller chest, there is a woman like me who wouldn't mind a larger one (though I like my A cups). For every woman complaining about her large hips, there is a woman like me wishing for more "womanly" curves (and we have to endure the extra insult of the implication that we are not REAL woman, bc of course, real women have curves). For every few women who are upset that they are overweight, there is a woman like me who would love to gain 10 pounds. Everyone is under the microscope. However, I still don't think this site promotes beauty. If you were to add up all of the qualifications listed, not even the women listed in the "attractive women" section would meet every qualification here. This site is just a really just the authors view of beauty, not generalized as he claims. It is also a bit sick and twisted that this much time is devoted to it in my opinion.

In case you are wondering how I got to this site, I was doing a search to find pictures of what natural women look like (not in a sexualized way per se). I was trying to find relatively varied pictures across the spectrum. Difficult to do when searching online, I know, but I thought I'd try. The more I explored this site, the more offended I became however, and I felt the need to comment. *sigh*

TO be honest I am objecting to your racism not from a moral standpoint but from a beauty standpoint. Some of the most beautiful girls in the world are Mexican straight often long black hair round cheeks a short nose a very feminine figure u will find girls of both a lean feminine type as well as girls with large well proportioned breasts and butt with wide hips and narrow waists. They combine the Celtic and the native in a way that looks better than both races on their own. The way they are all varying mixes seeing a group of beautiful Mexican women is like visiting a flower garden When they are wearing traditional folkloric costumes with all the layers of colors dancing around its enough to drive most men insane. But you go ahead and stick to your master race You are part of whats wrong with fashion not because you're a bigot I don't care about that all Im saying is your missing out add a little spice to your website and remember real women have curves

"TO be honest I am objecting to your racism not from a moral standpoint but from a beauty standpoint. Some of the most beautiful girls in the world are Mexican straight often long black hair round cheeks a short nose a very feminine figure u will find girls of both a lean feminine type as well as girls with large well proportioned breasts and butt with wide hips and narrow waists. They combine the Celtic and the native in a way that looks better than both races on their own."

Having a physical preference is NOT racism. They "combine the Celtic and the native".. Mexicans - like other non-whites - do benefit from racially mixing with whites. As usual they benefit and whites do not. Coarse "native" genes introduced in the white gene pool hardly benefits whites, generally speaking.

Most true Mexicans without any white blood are hardly most people's idea of beauty. If they are mixed with whites they can look good, obviously, thanks first and foremost to their white genes. If they look truly good it is often because they approach and look similar to whites - not because of looking native Mexican.

It is the diluting of Mexican blood that enhances their appearance. This is also true for other races/ ethnic groups that mix with whites.

Whites are a "recessive" race that give beauty to others while disappearing slowly themselves..

"While I by no means think that every person is objectively beautiful, I do think the restrictions on this site are way too narrow and are quite ridiculous. There are all shapes and sizes that people find beautiful, and it is much more difficult to classify than with the simple restrictions provided here."

I think it is a misconception to label it "restrictions". On the contrary, I think it is necessary to create some kind of "role model" or "ideals" so that we can actually see and compare these to the modern masculine fashion model, if just to show how far off we are today in comparison to more healthy, natural and feminine ideals of the past.

Homosexual "powermen" within the fashion industry have been allowed for too long to dictate what beauty in women is supposed to be, even though they aren't even sexually attracted to these same women. They view women just like any other object that they are aestetically interested in. The core, raw, FEMININE sexual power that women have over heterosexual men are frightening and revolting to them, so they seek to suppress it, and almost never choose those kinds of women as models or standards of beauty.

Many of them are hostile to women, for obvious reasons, and the often extreme and ridiculous clothes designed for women by them, show that very clearly. Making women look like anorexic ghosts, denying them almost every feminine and natural aspect of their appearance, and making them starve themselves, tells you that these people don't have women's best interest in mind, nor the best interest of heterosexuals, in general.

In fact, I believe their goal is to create the illusion of one, androgynous gender, where feminine men and masculine women make it hard to even tell what gender they are, all in an attempt to show we are all equal, and that gender - just like race - is just a "social construct". Even now they show men in the media who give birth to babies, somehow proving men are just like women... of course not stressing the fact that these "men" were born women. I think society today is going crazy and that it has to stop.

Going back to feminine and truly pretty women - making them our role models - is far healthier and natural than these twisted and sick trends.

Hi Emily

I'm hispanic and I agree that non-whites have the most to gain from the white gene pool, why is it that all the pretty non-whites are always mixed? Beyonce is mixed by her mother's side who is creole, not many black women are considered hot by the general public. Jessica Alba is another example. The most attractive people from different ethnic groups always tend to be mixed or white in facial features, and I find myself being attracted more to white women more then my own, not because I'm unwilling to date within my own, but because their is a shortage of truly gorgeous women.

AH,

I doubt that you are hispanic.

No hispanic person would demean his own race by saying that they are better off mixed with whites.

Jessica Alba is pretty because she benefited from both races, not just the white race.
She clearly looks more mexican than white.
Whereas Cameron Diaz (note the hispanic surname) clearly looks white.

Beyonce, now who on earth would call her white? But she is stunning and she may have a tiny bit of creole blood but creole's not even entirely white.

Even Angelina Jolie and Meghan Fox have native Indian ancestries.

I could give you hundreds of jew actors and actresses that pass for white.

Scarlett Johansen, Reese Witherspoon, Jake Gylenhaal etc etc. I am not even going in there as it's too long.

In conclusion, mixed race actresses are good looking because they have the best of both worlds and not as you would like to believe otherwise.

"No hispanic person would demean his own race by saying that they are better off mixed with whites."

Why not, if that is the truth as he/ she sees it? Most hispanics DO look better if they are mixed with whites, so I guess he/ she was mature and secure enough to say that.

If it is "demeaning" to tell the truth about something it must be much more demeaning and humiliating to say something you know isn't really true. Loyalty at the expence of honesty is truly sad.

Emily, have you had your testosterone level checked recently? Endless crowing about the beauty of Nordics while eviscerating the looks of every other race in the world is the sort of arrogant, dominating behavior that is universally considered masculine, not feminine. Go see an endocrinologist and he'll give you medication that will balance your hormones and calm you down. I know of what I speak since I recently began treatment for polycystic ovarian syndrome (high androgens, basically) and I am much calmer and more relaxed, although I was never as ball-busting as you are. Lower testosterone will also give you a more hourglass shaped figure, make your skin brighter and your hair shinier so perhaps you'll develop a little confidence in your own looks and no longer feel the need to label everyone else ugly.

Speaking of inner beauty I find it ironic that many of the explicitly anti-leftist males rhapsodize about the feminine charms of Scandinavian women when Sweden is the most feminist country in the world. In 2000 the Australian ran an article about Swedish feminists' campaign to make men pee sitting down (see link below). It's very hard to imagine a Asian woman or Latina who would ever think of asking a man to do this since their cultures respect men and masculinity. However "masculine" you may find Asian women and Latinas' appearances women with feminine personalities respect masculine men. Women with masculine personalities insult men and order them around like little boys. Also this urine bit is only the most egregious bit of Swedish feminist dreck online. Google "Swedish feminists" for more of their tomfoolery.

I realize that this site focuses on feminine looks, not personalities, but prenatal testosterone as well as androgens in adulthood affect women's personalities as much as their looks. So feminine behavior is just as valid a basis to judge a woman's femininity as her face and body. Emily you have chosen not to grace us with your photo so we can only determine your femininity by your sensitive and elegant prose.

http://www.petting-zoo.net/~deadbeef/archive/4625.html

"Emily you have chosen not to grace us with your photo so we can only determine your femininity by your sensitive and elegant prose."

Well, I am not exactly here to write love letters, you see. Nor am I here to prove my looks or femininity. Judging my looks on the basis of what I write here is hilariously idiotic. Your comment is another bait, I know. That is apparently the only thing people like you can come up with.

I am not the topic or the issue here. Try to understand, please. As for sensitivity, it cannot be forced, and if it would mean a lack of honesty I'm not particularly interested in that here. Why should I be? Since when do you see any sensitivity whatsoever towards whites, by the way - here or anywhere else? The day I see some sensitivity towards us, and less outright hostility, envy and aggression, I will be more sensitive to the feelings of those who are not white. I promise, sweetheart. Now dry your tears.

I have no idea why my looks, or the looks of anyone else who writes here, should be an issue. I'm not that insecure that I need to discuss my own looks here.

I am proud of my heritage and of my people/race, and I which to see it preserved. I see lots of people benefitting from white-mixing, and very little coming our way, so it is very one-sided, I think. The recessive nature of white genes also makes it necessary to breed more within the race, unless you want to see it disappear. This is a biologic, evolutionary fact, no matter how politically incorrect it may be.

I also don't like the hostility and yes, racism, that I see towards whites, nor the double-standard that is often applied to what whites are allowed to say and express in comparison to what other ethnicities and races are allowed to say.

This site, I think, is about femininity in women, and about the loss of feminine beauty in the media, and about the destruction of traditional, normal and feminine beauty ideals. I like the idea of TWO distinct genders - men and women. I like masculinity and strenght in men and femininity in women. I think a contrast is needed.

This is not to say that men and women don't share qualities. They do. I just think the homosexual ideal of totally androgynous men and women, approaching one mono-gender, is appalling and revolting, and also abnormal if it is allowed to dominate the way it does in the fashion- and beauty industry. The modern, downright masculine female ideal promoted by homosexual men has gone too far, and that is what this site wants people to realize, I think.

Some here who feel inferior (many attacks here, outwardly aggressive or hidden behind false graciousness, reek with inferiority complex) and hate the fact that good looks tend to depend on white genes seem to take pleasure in personally attacking those who have a personal taste that doesn't conform to their own looks/ race. Such behaviour does NOT bring out sensitivity in anyone, only contempt.

In other words, constant provocations and personal attacks don't result in feelings of compassion and sensitivity, and this will colour my words. One doesn't reward malice, bad behaviour and envy, and I honestly don't see why I should.

Emily,

I don't think we are not trying to appease to your sensitivity, why would anyone seek affirmation from someone who is a complete idiot.

Maybe it's not your fault that you are a racist. You are limited by your capacity to see the world any other way either because of your education, upbringing or society.

The world and life is not just about the white race, get over it and see more of the world. You are just limiting yourself this way in seeing the charm of life everywhere.

It's like saying only roses are beautiful but no other flowers can compare. That's similar to what this website and you in particular are saying, you are missing out on other aspects of beauty as it is limited, narrowed down and one dimensional.

And yes we are all proud of our culture, heritage, race and traditions too. If someone insulted mine I would probably be arrested for assault but the difference between you and me is that you feel that you have the right to disrespect and put down other races to feed your ego.

I was raised to respect all humans as one race and you need to learn that as well.

"Well, I am not exactly here to write love letters, you see. Nor am I here to prove my looks or femininity. Judging my looks on the basis of what I write here is hilariously idiotic. Your comment is another bait, I know. That is apparently the only thing people like you can come up with."

Ha! Haven't you ever heard the saying, "Judge lest not you be judged?" Or how about this one, "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Well, guess what... it's true. When you judge other people, you cannot expect to not be judged in return. We KNOW that it not what the site is about, but that is missing the point. If you are willing to judge other people so harshly, don't be surprised when others want to judge you as well. Talk about being able to dish it out, but not being able to take it!

"Since when do you see any sensitivity whatsoever towards whites, by the way - here or anywhere else? The day I see some sensitivity towards us, and less outright hostility, envy and aggression, I will be more sensitive to the feelings of those who are not white. I promise, sweetheart. Now dry your tears."

Okay, more racism. At least it's easy to see and not hiding behind "science" (eugenics).

"I have no idea why my looks, or the looks of anyone else who writes here, should be an issue. I'm not that insecure that I need to discuss my own looks here."

You have made the looks the issue of this site, and you expect it not to be an issue when anyone comments here?

"I am proud of my heritage and of my people/race, and I which to see it preserved. I see lots of people benefitting from white-mixing, and very little coming our way, so it is very one-sided, I think. The recessive nature of white genes also makes it necessary to breed more within the race, unless you want to see it disappear. This is a biologic, evolutionary fact, no matter how politically incorrect it may be."

You do realize it will take thousands of years before that happens right? Even then, it is no guarantee. There are plenty of non-whites that carry recessive white genes as well. A mixed race friend I went to school with had a white mother and a black father. She benefited from the recessive gene for beautiful red hair. Her hair was thick and curly without being that kinky, and it was awesome. She also benefited from the more "African-looking" bone structure, and she was absolutely gorgeous as a result. She was beautiful as a result of the combination of ALL her genes, not just the white genes benefiting the others. To me (though it's admittedly my PERSONAL opinion) I don't think she would have been nearly as beautiful without the stron bone structure in her face that she inherited from her father.

"I also don't like the hostility and yes, racism, that I see towards whites, nor the double-standard that is often applied to what whites are allowed to say and express in comparison to what other ethnicities and races are allowed to say."

Oh, cry me a river. Compared to what other races have had to deal with whites had (and still do have) it easy. Most people that I meet of other races and ethnicities (sp) are not racist towards whites. That is not to say that I haven't met a few non-white racists, but honestly the percentage of racist whites I have met is higher than the percentage of non-white racists.

"This site, I think, is about femininity in women, and about the loss of feminine beauty in the media, and about the destruction of traditional, normal and feminine beauty ideals. I like the idea of TWO distinct genders - men and women. I like masculinity and strenght in men and femininity in women. I think a contrast is needed."

Good for you. Just don't tell me it's science.

"This is not to say that men and women don't share qualities. They do. I just think the homosexual ideal of totally androgynous men and women, approaching one mono-gender, is appalling and revolting, and also abnormal if it is allowed to dominate the way it does in the fashion- and beauty industry. The modern, downright masculine female ideal promoted by homosexual men has gone too far, and that is what this site wants people to realize, I think."

By its very nature the fashion world is going to be abnormal. Even you admit that most people cannot fit into your standard of beauty. If the fashion world adopted your standard as the norm, it would still be "abnormal." As for appalling and revolting, careful: your contempt is showing! If this site is more about appreciating feminine beauty, as you CLAIM it is, rather than putting people down, then why do you feel the need to call such womens' looks "appalling" and "revolting." You are entitled to your opinion, but don't be surprised when other people find it offensive when you are calling people appalling and revolting. As for androgeny and preferences, I read a study years ago, which I'm not going to bother to look up right now, that showed that women prefer more feminine looking men for long-term partners. So, NO, the science does not always agree with you.

"Some here who feel inferior (many attacks here, outwardly aggressive or hidden behind false graciousness, reek with inferiority complex) and hate the fact that good looks tend to depend on white genes seem to take pleasure in personally attacking those who have a personal taste that doesn't conform to their own looks/ race."

I actually came to this site in a moment of weakness when I wasn't feeling very good about my looks. I'm feeling much better about my looks now. While I don't rely on it for my self-esteem, I can say I've had a lot of unsolicited positive feedback from men lately, and that certainly doesn't hurt! :P As for good looks depending on white genes and all the attacks on this site coming from non-whites, I know that is not true in my case. Kiss my blond-haired, blue-eyed, Irish-Polish-American skinny behind! (I was going to write something regarding this in the section on racism, but decided it would be more fun to surprise you here. I'd like to add something to what I wrote in the racism section now... My sample may be biased in terms of seeing more racist whites than non-whites because I am a white raised with a fairly high socio-economic status. I simply know many more whites than blacks, and whites are less likely to hide their racism amongst a group that they presume feels the same way. I don't feel the same way.)

"Such behaviour does NOT bring out sensitivity in anyone, only contempt."

Yes, this is true. Your attacks of others bring this contempt as well. You don't care about stirring contempt from me, why should I hesitate to do the same. For what it worth, we're not attacking you so much as your opinions and ridiculous assumptions. You, on the other hand, are criticizing people directly on something very personal that they cannot do much to change, their looks. Do you not expect contempt as a result?

"In other words, constant provocations and personal attacks don't result in feelings of compassion and sensitivity, and this will colour my words. One doesn't reward malice, bad behaviour and envy, and I honestly don't see why I should."

I feel the same way. Right back at ya, hon!

"

Emily,

I don't think we are not trying to appease to your sensitivity, why would anyone seek affirmation from someone who is a complete idiot.

Maybe it's not your fault that you are a racist. You are limited by your capacity to see the world any other way either because of your education, upbringing or society.

The world and life is not just about the white race, get over it and see more of the world. You are just limiting yourself this way in seeing the charm of life everywhere.

It's like saying only roses are beautiful but no other flowers can compare. That's similar to what this website and you in particular are saying, you are missing out on other aspects of beauty as it is limited, narrowed down and one dimensional.

And yes we are all proud of our culture, heritage, race and traditions too. If someone insulted mine I would probably be arrested for assault but the difference between you and me is that you feel that you have the right to disrespect and put down other races to feed your ego.

I was raised to respect all humans as one race and you need to learn that as well."

This was beautiful. Thank you for posting.

I probably shouldn't react the way I did in my last post because two wrongs never make a right, but I'm astounded by how illogical it all is. I know I'm not going to change her mind. There would be no point to it. I don't want others to miss all the hypocritical things that were said in that post though. I'm sure there are other ways to do it, and I'll consider it more next time.

Lovely, lovely post. Really.

"Your comment is another bait, I know."

I'm being objective. There's nothing demure or gentle about the things you write. That said I agree that's not really the issue.

"Why should I be? Since when do you see any sensitivity whatsoever towards whites, by the way - here or anywhere else? The day I see some sensitivity towards us, and less outright hostility, envy and aggression, I will be more sensitive to the feelings of those who are not white. I promise, sweetheart. Now dry your tears."

I agree with you about political correctness and double standards, but why on earth do you want to sink to the level of people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? Do you really think calling blacks and Asians ugly on some obscure website will make ethnic activists engage in fair discourse?

"I have no idea why my looks, or the looks of anyone else who writes here, should be an issue. I'm not that insecure that I need to discuss my own looks here."

You really don't understand that making incredibly personal attacks on others races' looks and exalting the looks of your own might make people question how stunning you might be? Well, that's the case there nothing I can do to persuade you. I hope in person that your social skills are somewhat better

"I am proud of my heritage and of my people/race, and I which to see it preserved. I see lots of people benefitting from white-mixing, and very little coming our way, so it is very one-sided, I think. The recessive nature of white genes also makes it necessary to breed more within the race, unless you want to see it disappear. This is a biologic, evolutionary fact, no matter how politically incorrect it may be."

That's only because you think that only Nordic-looking people are beautiful. For people with more open-minded tastes people like Halle Berry, Lenny Kravitz, Kristin Kreuk, Russell Wong etc. are quite welcome in the pantheon of beautiful people. Besides it's not as though people in a free society are going to stop interbreeding, so why not enjoy it? If Swedes and white people in general where to disappear I'd think it was a loss for humanity but it will take a long time for that to happen. Look at Australian Aborigines and American Indians. They have been decimated, but white folks will be around for longer than that. I like diversity and distinct ethnic groups as well but not so much that I think people should marry co-ethnics they don't love (or not marry at all) for the good of the race. Marrying who you love is more important than group loyalty, or at least most of us white Westerners think so. Demanding endogamy is more common among unsophisticated Third Worlders, i.e. those dogfaced Asians and Africans.

"I also don't like the hostility and yes, racism, that I see towards whites, nor the double-standard that is often applied to what whites are allowed to say and express in comparison to what other ethnicities and races are allowed to say."

Neither do I, and I think some of it is due to the fact that Nordic beauty is glorified in the media. But you do realize you're saying you want to be as racist and insulting as ethnic activists. I know a guy born in America to parents from India who hates that white liberals hold non-whites to lower moral standards in terms of what white libs will accept: everything from racist words to criminal violence. Basically you want the bar of civil society lowered so whites like yourself can be as selfish and obnoxious as race obsessed minorities. Why not simply demand that ethnic activists give up THEIR race baiting?

"This site, I think, is about femininity in women, and about the loss of feminine beauty in the media, and about the destruction of traditional, normal and feminine beauty ideals. I like the idea of TWO distinct genders - men and women. I like masculinity and strenght in men and femininity in women. I think a contrast is needed.

This is not to say that men and women don't share qualities. They do. I just think the homosexual ideal of totally androgynous men and women, approaching one mono-gender, is appalling and revolting, and also abnormal if it is allowed to dominate the way it does in the fashion- and beauty industry. The modern, downright masculine female ideal promoted by homosexual men has gone too far, and that is what this site wants people to realize, I think."

I largely agree, but do you realize that the majority of your Swedish countrywomen, those alleged paragons of femininity, do not? Why don't super-feminine Swedish women respect Swedish men? For conservatives around the world Sweden is a byword around the world for feminist inanity, while China, Japan, Chile, Argentina etc. are praised for having more traditional sex roles where men are respected. Interesting that you dislike homosexual ideals when Sweden was the first country in Europe to provide gays with domestic partnership legislation in 1987 (see link below). Fact is your racial pride and your championing of traditional sex roles don't really go together. If you love traditional sex roles you'll have to accept that your beloved homeland tends not to. If you love Sweden you'll have to accept that countries full of (in your estimation) hideously ugly and unfeminine women are much more traditional.

"Some here who feel inferior (many attacks here, outwardly aggressive or hidden behind false graciousness, reek with inferiority complex) and hate the fact that good looks tend to depend on white genes seem to take pleasure in personally attacking those who have a personal taste that doesn't conform to their own looks/ race. Such behaviour does NOT bring out sensitivity in anyone, only contempt."

First off, read your history. Japanese and Eskimos of the 18th century found whites hideously ugly when they first encountered them. Even today people from India (and to a lesser east Asia) admire whites' fair skin but are less impressed by blond hair and blue eyes. American/European domination of TV and movies are what drive the popularity of white features around the world, not the genetic superiority of Nordics. If movies and TV disappeared beauty based on the features of local populations would return to prominence. Emily it's perfectly normal to be proud of your race and to think that your "people" are the most beautiful but that goes for Asians, blacks, Latinos as well.

http://www.nationalreview.com/kurtz/kurtz200602220826.asp

Interesting blog run by a Swedish man in Stockholm. Despite being surrounded by Nordic women he runs a blog devoted to the beauty of black women. Sort of like Erik's evil twin.

http://www.blackisbeautiful.se/

Hi, Voice of Reason

I'm not demeaning my "race", I'm a mestizo which means I'm already of mixed origin between European and American Indians. Also have you ever been to any Hispanic countries, most mestizos have a bias toward black or pure "indians", there is a great irony that some discriminate against another minority, but that's a reality and as evident on many telenovelas most of the cast they choose are white or mestizos with Europeans features. If you think I'm demeaning my own kind, then the rest of Latin America is as well.

Hi AH,

I can see the point you are making and that is there is prejudice and bias everywhere against certain ethnicities but your reasoning is that because there is prejudice in Latin America, you also have the right to discriminate as you are a Mestizo, which is a bit illogical.

I am not trying to put words in your mouth but your post is confusing.

Racists love arguing that mixed actors and models benefit from the white parents while completely ignoring the fact that mixed kids have 50/50 DNA and this is what makes them good looking.

Let's say for example the white father has typical caucasian features like big round eyes and a sharp longish nose. The mother has typical asian features as in exotic eyes, pert nose, delicate delicate bone structure. Now the child will be born with mixed features as in big exotic eyes, short but sharp nose and a delicate bone structure. Example is Kristin Kreuk, the actress in Smallvile.

I have noticed that Emily tried to pass of Channing Tatum as a swede when the fact is he has native Indian ancestry. You can see the jawline which is similar to Angelina Jolie as she too has Iroquis ancestry. Meghan Fox has Cherookee ancestry and you can see that she has those sexy features, a similar jawline. Also Halle Berry, Keanu Reeves etc etc, the list goes on and on.

In short the native Indian features have actually exoticised more bland white features and they make for a very striking looking person. Everything is a bit more exaggerated, higher cheeks, more angular jawline, more arched eyebrows, more poutier lips. These features are also synonymous with high hormone levels which is also an indication of a person's fitness as well.

Bone structure is much, much more important than colour of eyes and skin for photographing or filming and that's the reason why there are a lot of mixed race people in the glamour industry.

link | Submitted by Emily on Fri, 05/15/2009 - 07:32.

I have no idea why my looks, or the looks of anyone else who writes here, should be an issue. I'm not that insecure that I need to discuss my own looks here.

Are you sure? LOL

Channing Tatum is so hot I just checked his ethnicity and guess what.

Born in Cullman, a small city in Alabama, Tatum has one sister. He has African, French, Irish, and Native American ancestry

Emily, you tried to pass a person with African and native Indian ancestors as a Swedish guy. Uh oh! Your ideal swedish male white beauty happens to be an African Native Indian. Isn't that a bit ironic?

Voice of Reason,
I agree with you about the frequent beauty of mixed race people and that bone structure is more important than skin and eye color. However Megan Fox is not a good example due to all the plastic surgery she's had. I think she looked better as a sweet natural beauty than the fake sex pot she wants to be. I was surprised to learn that she's only 22 because she has the hard look of a woman who's at least 30.

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/megan_fox_high_school_pics#41329

http://screenrant.com/confirmed-megan-fox-star-fathom-jonah-hex-kofi-5868/

Just Googled Channing Tatum Wait, he has a somewhat broad nose. Doesn't that make him wretchigly ugly? Personally I'll take him and his broad nose any day of the week!

Hi Meredith,

I have to say that you have used pretty strong wording to address these people so I was pleasantly surprised to read you are actually white.

But then it is true that the majority of whites are not racist, there are a few bad apples and these tend to come from people of lower socio economic strata and intellect. This may sound a bit condescending and I wish I could phrase this better but oh well.
I am of mixed ethnicity (white and asian) so it is a touchy topic for me.
My husband is blue eyed and blonde and he actually has reverse racism, the other day he said white girls are not very attractive and I was like, why? There are a lot of beautiful white girls but then I guess it's just one's own preference.

Hi just noting,

You have used pretty strong words as well. Megan Fox was definitely a lot more wholesome and natural in the TV series and previous movies but she seems to have adopted the sultry (sex pot) look and as this is associated more with older women, she does look way older. Maybe this is a look that works for her as Transformers was quite succesful. I guess this is another point that this website is missing.
Fashion is dictated by economics and not really by a particular designer. You will obviously use models that sell clothes or magazines than one who doesn't sell any and that's a fact of life that anyone with basic business sense has to accept.

to Voice of Reason

I didn't mean for my post to be confusing, to clarify I don't discriminate against any minority. I failed to articulate how ironic it is that you think I'm demeaning my own race when most of Latin America is mixed, and I tried to explain how things are like in some parts.

P.S. In my original post I tried to explain how being mixed with whites is beneficial to other races. I also didn't understand your reply "mixed race actresses are good looking because they have the best of both worlds and not as you would like to believe otherwise" wasn't that the point? would these actresses be as pretty if they didn't have white features? I don't understand your objection.

AH,

I have given you an example where I have stated why and how the features combine but you seem to want to convince me that the actresses are better off because of white features.
According to your reasoning, all white people would be the epitome of beauty then why isn't every single white person in the world an actress or a model?

I live in the UK and have never seen a mexican telenovela so I am not quite awestruck by white features because I am used to seeing real and typical white features and they are not pretty all the time. I am watching Britain's Got Talent while typing this and the amount of weirdos on there is just awful. Heard of Susan Boyle? The lady with 70 million youtube viewers or Melinor Emman, Sweden's Eurovision contest hopeful. Both are very, very talented but not the best looking people.

AH,

Beauty is dependant on a lot of factors (excluding race) and they are:

Age- Younger is better than older.

Physical fitness- Healthier is better than sick.

Balanced Hormones- These are what are responsible for secondary sexual characteristics as in masculine and feminine features. More masculine or feminine is better than less masculine or feminine but not excessively (Arnold Schwarzenegger = not handsome).

Symmetry- As in how one half of the face looks in relation to the other half or how all the features in a face correlate to each other. Google Marquadt's mask.

Averageness- Average size of their features, average is better than too small or too big, also evidenced by research.

Pedomorphic look- More childlike facial features is better, this is true for girls and young boys but not necessarily older men, this has also been researched again.

None of these factors are related to race so at least understand the science of beauty. This is the reason why I doubted you were hispanic because you just seem keen on linking beauty with white superiority.

Voice of Reason,
I live in America and have seen Hispanic television. AH is right that European looks are preferred by both the producers and audiences. Many of Hollywood's "Hispanic" stars like Penelope Cruz and Antonio Banderas are white Spaniards or, have a white American parent like Jessica Alba, and are quite popular among Hispanic-Americans, the majority of whom have substantial Native American or African ancestry.

"This is the reason why I doubted you were hispanic because you just seem keen on linking beauty with white superiority."

People need to stop using the word "superiority" every time time we talk about whites in any postivie light. As soon as anyone has something good to say about whites they must be punished by being called "supremacists", and that they want "white superiority".

Not allowing ANYTHING nice being said about whites, without bullying the person saying it, IS racism and discrimination.

This tactic has to stop and people who resort to it need to be called on it.

If you believe that whites are more beautiful you are perfectly within your right to say that without being harassed and accused of racism, just as you are allowed to say that another race is more beautiful if that's what you think.

I am SICK of this double standard, as I have said before, and this kind of low-brow attacks need to stop. I don't know what is going on in America but it is clear to me that people there seem to be trying to suppress and scare people form saying anything good about whites. Funny, the ones who love to cry racism are the ones who practise it the most, it seems.

Hi just noting,

I agree there is a bias towards white features but it's not like they have a totally Nordic looking actor speaking in Spanish. Mexican's are mixed white, natives or African so they are going to have actors with a mixed look but as I said I haven't a clue about Mexican telenovelas.

But I have watched some Indian movies and Indians are known to worship the white skin, at least that's what racists would jump to say. I was reading a blog about a white guy trying to make it in the Indian film industry but the guy didn't have much luck. After much perseverance, the only role that he got offered was a 2 minute unpaid role as a rapist! Just being light skinned and light eyed doesn't necessarily get you a one way ticket to becoming a celebrity and earning millions.

There is a bias towards lighter featured Hispanics and Indians in their own industry but then there are also a lot of equally succesful actors with dark features as well eg Shilpa Shetty winner of Big Brother UK and Bipasha Basu who dated footballer Ronaldo etc, etc.

You need to have that X factor or charisma and not many people have it.

""Well, I am not exactly here to write love letters, you see. Nor am I here to prove my looks or femininity. Judging my looks on the basis of what I write here is hilariously idiotic. Your comment is another bait, I know. That is apparently the only thing people like you can come up with.""

"Ha! Haven't you ever heard the saying, "Judge lest not you be judged?" Or how about this one, "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Well, guess what... it's true. When you judge other people, you cannot expect to not be judged in return. We KNOW that it not what the site is about, but that is missing the point. If you are willing to judge other people so harshly, don't be surprised when others want to judge you as well. Talk about being able to dish it out, but not being able to take it!"

I'm not judging people writing here or attacking them viciously and relentlessly just because they may disagree with me. I'm able "to take it". The thing is you don't even realize how bitter and envious you look when you resort to personal attacks. By all means, go ahead. It doesn't do anyone any favours, though.

""I have no idea why my looks, or the looks of anyone else who writes here, should be an issue. I'm not that insecure that I need to discuss my own looks here.""

"You have made the looks the issue of this site, and you expect it not to be an issue when anyone comments here?"

This site is about feminine beauty - not about MY looks. Since I don't need to talk about my looks all the time one could infer that I don't suffer from self-esteem issues in that department, and why that could be is not that hard to understand, I think.

Insecure people who look for confirmation here won't get it, since the site is not about boosting the self-esteem of people with psychological or self-esteem problems, but about promoting feminine beauty in the media, and about the lack of a balance in the media, where an unhealthy and very unfeminine ideal is being promoted at the expence of other, more natural ideals.

""I am proud of my heritage and of my people/race, and I which to see it preserved. I see lots of people benefitting from white-mixing, and very little coming our way, so it is very one-sided, I think. The recessive nature of white genes also makes it necessary to breed more within the race, unless you want to see it disappear. This is a biologic, evolutionary fact, no matter how politically incorrect it may be.""

"You do realize it will take thousands of years before that happens right? "

No, I don't. Evolution can be quicker than you think. Even now the amount of babies born in the US with blue eyes is declining, so it is happening right now. Race-mixing advocates like to say this is not real, but it is. Only an idiot would think that you can open the doors to mass-immigration by other races/ethnicities without any consequences to the white population living there originally.

""I also don't like the hostility and yes, racism, that I see towards whites, nor the double-standard that is often applied to what whites are allowed to say and express in comparison to what other ethnicities and races are allowed to say.""

"Oh, cry me a river. Compared to what other races have had to deal with whites had (and still do have) it easy. Most people that I meet of other races and ethnicities (sp) are not racist towards whites. That is not to say that I haven't met a few non-white racists, but honestly the percentage of racist whites I have met is higher than the percentage of non-white racists."

I know that other races have suffered, especially in America, which is not my country so I'm not a part of that, although I'm beginning to see the extreme agression and hostility other races have towards whites there. I don't think it should be a contest, by the way.

You can't say that you have suffered so now you are within your moral right to treat others badly. If you treat whites with hostility and aggression this is what you will get back - not sensitivity. I have never treated people badly and I don't see why whites today should have to pay an eternal price for the sins of others.

""This is not to say that men and women don't share qualities. They do. I just think the homosexual ideal of totally androgynous men and women, approaching one mono-gender, is appalling and revolting, and also abnormal if it is allowed to dominate the way it does in the fashion- and beauty industry. The modern, downright masculine female ideal promoted by homosexual men has gone too far, and that is what this site wants people to realize, I think.""

"By its very nature the fashion world is going to be abnormal. Even you admit that most people cannot fit into your standard of beauty. If the fashion world adopted your standard as the norm, it would still be "abnormal."

No, it doesn't have to be. It will be what you make it. "MY" standard? I'm not running this site. I think the standard here would be fairly easy to fit into. Less masculine, anorexic and overtly androgynous women, and more focus on softer, more feminine women with more normal weight, cannot be that hard to "fit into".

Trying to make people appreciate more natural and feminine women, and less hard, overly thin an masculine women, seems to me perfectly reasonable. The almost total disappearance of these women as standards of beauty in the media is what is worrying. That's what you get when homosexual men are allowed to set the standard, apparently.

"appalling and revolting, careful: your contempt is showing! If this site is more about appreciating feminine beauty, as you CLAIM it is, rather than putting people down, then why do you feel the need to call such womens' looks "appalling" and "revolting." "

The attempt to make clearly masculine and androgynous women rolemodels, and to promote more or less one mono-gender, is what is appalling and revolting. Yes, I feel contempt for a gay-run industry who wants to tell us what we should look like, and which has as its goal to promote masculine, anorexic women, and which consistently promotes women who look anything BUT feminine, or even normal, sometimes. One look at the sickly and ghostly runway models would prove my point.

It is one thing to use different kinds of women, also more masculine ones, but you see, this is not what they do. They aggressively promote ONE ideal, making feminine and curvy women some kind of outcasts in the eyes of the fashion world. That's not healthy, nor right.

You can be elegant, tall and slim and still be feminine and a little curvy. VERY important to remember, and that's something I think they constantly ignore. They want androgynous or masculine and sickly thin women - period.

""Some here who feel inferior (many attacks here, outwardly aggressive or hidden behind false graciousness, reek with inferiority complex) and hate the fact that good looks tend to depend on white genes seem to take pleasure in personally attacking those who have a personal taste that doesn't conform to their own looks/ race.""

"I actually came to this site in a moment of weakness when I wasn't feeling very good about my looks. I'm feeling"

And THAT is the problem! I think many women with very low self-esteem do visit here in the hopes of feeling better and more feminine and attractive.

It is not a good idea. This is not primarily a self-help site, or a forum for people with self-esteem issues. On the contrary, since it deals with perfection, in a way, and with beauty ideals and feminine role models, many would feel worse after visiting here.

Those who have healthy self-esteem and who want to talk about femininity and beauty in the media, and who think the homosexual ideal of masculine and anorexic women has gone overboard and wish to address that - without investing their own personal self in it - are more likely to find it to their liking.

The tone here tells me too many have deep inferiority complexes and issues with their bodies. I do NOT think this site is suitable for these people, and they should address their own problems somewhere else, instead of venting their anger and frustration on those who are here to discuss beauty and femininity in a rational and more detached way.

"Racists love arguing that mixed actors and models benefit from the white parents while completely ignoring the fact that mixed kids have 50/50 DNA and this is what makes them good looking."

Then you presume that the 50/50 % is the same as gaining equally..in other words, that all races benefit equally. I don't think that is the case.

I would argue that racially mixed, good-looking people more often than not own their looks to their white genes. In other words, they look good since they approach the looks of whites. The more they alienate themselves from the looks of whites the less good they look, generally speaking.

The fact is we are not benefitting equally. Whites often give much MORE than they receive in terms of looks, while pure blacks and asians might benefit quite a lot from race mixing. This is often at the expense of whites, who most of the time will have much more beautiful children with another white person, not to mention that the gene pool will be corrupted and fewer truly white children will be born in the future if we increase the race mixing. An inconvenient truth for the politically correct.

Is race mixing really a fair deal..?

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Race mixed people often look a little odd;

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Emily,

I feel really sorry for you.

Being proud of your race is one thing but to have all this hate and contempt, you have some really serious psychological issues.

For your own sake, you need to get a job and stop spamming the website with pictures and obnoxious comments before you completely lose your mental health.
To be honest, I think that I place too much value on looks and I shouldn't really. I just visit this site because I am bored at work so it's really surprising and depressing to see someone who is so obsessed with race and the beauty of the white race.

There are far more important things in life and you need to get a life. Get well soon, honey!

"Race mixed people often look a little odd"

People with parents from the same ethnic group often look a little inbred.

"Even now the amount of babies born in the US with blue eyes is declining, so it is happening right now"

Prove that is due specifically to interracial marriage as opposed to increased immigration and a decline in white birth rates. And even if it's due to interracial marriage only the Stormfront crowd would think a blue eyed population is worth having people forsake their true loves. You're almost alone in finding dark eyes ugly.

"People with parents from the same ethnic group often look a little inbred."

No, they don't. :)

I could use photos from Iceland, for example. People there are some of the most beautiful on Earth, well-known for their good looks.

Now, let's see..Iceland must have lots of people, then, right?

Oops, there are 320.000 inhabitants on Iceland! I guess your theory doesn't hold water. ;)

Beauty and race mixing are not siamese twins, regardless of what they want you to believe. Oftentimes you are better off sticking to your own kind if you want a beautiful baby. If you are white, that is.

"You're almost alone in finding dark eyes ugly."

I don't find dark eyes ugly (I assume you mean dark as in dark brown). Sometimes very dark brown eyes, approaching black, can look hard. I don't find hard eyes attractive, and the colour brownish-black IS hard when it comes to eyes.

I find shades of blue, greyish-blue, green without brown in it, and blue-green (sea green) to be the most beautiful colours. Not only because these colurs themselves are outstandingly beautiful and bring to mind the sky and the sea, but because they are softer and more gentle, making the eyes look more gentle, romantic and sweet.

There are many beautiful women who have different shades of brown eyes, so I'm not saying that the dark brown colour somehow excludes you from looking good. Women would look dramatic, sexy and temperamental, but sometimes less romantic - unless they have other, softer qualities in their face to go with it.

This is especially so in women. Men, who naturally look harder and more masculine, often look good with brown eyes, too. The important thing is that the white area around the iris is clear and white, I think.

"Being proud of your race is one thing but to have all this hate and contempt, you have some really serious psychological issues."

I think it is truly sad when you have to falsely label something "hate and contempt" just to feel better about yourself. Somehow it is unbearable for you to think that people might actually view looks in an analytical and rational way and find it not to their liking.

I don't hate. I think hate is a destructive emotion. I certainly don't hate someone because I don't find them physically appealing. That is absurd. You see, this site deals with beauty, and here you can discuss what you find appealing and feminine, and not appealing, and should be able to discuss it without being called names. Too many who apparently themselves fall far short of what some feel is good looks seem to take my words deeply personally. In that case this site is not for you, obviously.

The truth is that many people do think whites are more beautiful, on average, and that race mixing is not the best thing since sliced bread, without having feelings of hate.

That would make it so convenient for you, wouldn't it? To put critisism down to hatred and feelings of superiority. As if one cannot see objectively and rationally and say "Hey, this isn't working, this isn't attractive to me and here is why and this is what I think looks better".

Emily,

I have a healthy self esteem and enough confidence in my looks and intellect so no I don't have to seek affirmation from any racist to make myself feel better. I don't come to this site to make myself feel better, I have an interest in beauty because I have worked in the beauty industry.

I don't hate. I think hate is a destructive emotion. I certainly don't hate someone because I don't find them physically appealing. That is absurd

Are you joking? Check all your previous hateful comments before you contradict yourself. Also it's not just me that thinks you are a hateful person, every time you come up with a banal comment, there are 10 comments from different posters condemning you. Does that not make you wonder if you are in the wrong? Perhaps not, if you are seriously deluded.

Your statement that whites are more beautiful is just an opinion or a preference and not a fact that has been substantiated by science. Regarding preference, there is a huge population of white guys who strictly date Asian, Latin or black girls so your statement is obviously not true for them.

Humans are programmed to choose mates who will provide different genetic material to their own because this promotes healthier humans as in stronger immune system and lesser frequency of genetic disease. There is more likelihood of inbreeding if you choose someone from your own race and this may result in diseases, also there is something called Westermarck effect that causes people to look for mates who are very different from their own race.

Newsweek did a story on how interracials tend to have perfect features, now would you trust a world renowned publication like Newsweek or some anonymous racist spouting rubbish?

There's scientific evidence that proves humans are meant to mix and integrate because of the benefit in terms of health and looks but I doubt you have got credible evidence backing up your ridiculous statements.

"People need to stop using the word "superiority" every time time we talk about whites in any postivie light. As soon as anyone has something good to say about whites they must be punished by being called "supremacists", and that they want "white superiority".

Not allowing ANYTHING nice being said about whites, without bullying the person saying it, IS racism and discrimination.

This tactic has to stop and people who resort to it need to be called on it.

If you believe that whites are more beautiful you are perfectly within your right to say that without being harassed and accused of racism, just as you are allowed to say that another race is more beautiful if that's what you think.

I am SICK of this double standard, as I have said before, and this kind of low-brow attacks need to stop. I don't know what is going on in America but it is clear to me that people there seem to be trying to suppress and scare people form saying anything good about whites. Funny, the ones who love to cry racism are the ones who practise it the most, it seems."

The problem isn't simply that you have good things to say about whites or even that in your opinion white beauty is better than (synonym for superior to) beauty in other cultures. However, when you claim to have the only objective view on the matter (opinion, by its nature is not objective), and claim it is scientifically proven (when it really isn't), that is when it becomes a problem. I have a Spaniard friend who doesn't date Hispanic women. He is only attracted to white women. That is just his opinion, and I have no problem with it. I'm sure there are other men that date only black or only asians, and nothing is wrong with this either. If they started claiming that blacks or asians were objectively more beautiful than people of other races, then I would take issue.

Emily,

Sorry, I just read your other post in reply to mine and didn't realize that you weren't one of the site administrators. Honestly, you just seem so invested in these issues that I mistakenly assumed that you had a personal interest in it and co-administered the site with Eric.

Well, I'm a bit tired of this website. Occasionaley I just don't really want to address anything. I find it funny Erik that you claim I'm probably just mediocre amongst idiots. But the truth is I personally never believed I was mediocre and I hope that my current and future accomplishments in my life will reflect that. In fact even from a young age I used to tell my mother that God has a special purpose for me. My parents always told me I was wise beyond my years and interestingly enough gave me a name (it is foreign, but I don't want to mention my real name here anyways) that literally means: wise one. This was when I was a baby and they barely knew "me".

Anyways, I believe there are many dimensions to what we label as "beautiful". I feel that many people, Erik included, are looking at things in a very 1 dimensional way. Thats just the analogy I am going to use.

About the race mixing thing, I personally am attracted to white guys. However, I do believe mixed people are often better looking. Of course this is just from my personal experience and what I have noticed from my personal observations. Besides that, I believe that some people are attracted to those more like themselves, others are attracted to those more different than themselves, and some sway either way. I also believe there are many features that ARE more so objectivley attractive based on the fact that there is a universal appeal to them. These features often can probably be correlated to youth and fertility.

And for you Emily, this really has nothing to do with looks. However, when I was little I watched a very good movie and it was one of my all time favorite movies. It's called "A Little Princess". I want you to watch it, just because I want you to understand why I am so defensive and where my attitude comes from. I understand this site is about looks and nothing else. However, life is not black and white and anything written here is not black and white. Truth of the matter is even most scientists can have trouble being completely detached and objective. Even without realizing it people are more keen to believe what they want to based on their personality, the way their brain works, their life experiences, etc. So I believe that most everyone that writes here is somehow biased. I just want you to watch this movie because I want you to realize that "every girl is a princess". Going with that no girl, no matter how ugly, should be seen as only that, as "ugly". I feel that you often only focus on the "ugly" in others physically and in other ways. Look beyond an ugly face and a person's true beauty will often come out. I believe that if you believe you are beautiful, literally that will manifest in the way others see you. However, no matter how beautiful you believe you are, those that fail to see a deeper beauty will never see it. Don't fail to see the deeper beauty, because that is where the true essence of beauty lies.

When I see a girl with a hooked nose or hard eyes or dark skin, or masculine qualities, I don't see an ugly girl. I see a woman who has a strong look to her, and that strength in her appearance would appeal to me. If I had those qualities I would strive to live up to them, to let my physical reflect my inner qualities. I would strive to be strong and well respected. I once told one of my friends, hey you may not be the most beautiful girl in the world, but you don't need to be. There are millions of beautiful girls on this planet. You need to be you. Your beauty is your own and what you make it to be. Although the world may see your nose and call it hooked or manly, you say no, my nose is strong and it gives me character. It is a reflection of ME. There are many women with cute dainty noses, and with plastic surgery even more now. However, I will always have my nose and it will always be an expression of ME. If you appreciate it thats fine, if you cannot than leave me alone. There is more to beauty, and if you are a woman who takes care of herself and respects herself and tries her best to look her best and be her best, that is all that is needed in life. A man would be a fool to go for the next bimbo that may appeal to his penis more over the woman who respects herself and is respected, that woman should appeal to his heart and mind more. It is in our hearts and minds where true beauty lies.

So I may sound really gay and stupid now. I don't care. That is my honest view of beauty. In fact I think something out of place like a mole, or bumpy nose, or hard eyes, or something weird is great because these days we have so many "plain janes" we pass off as feminine who look great. However, there are few women who are beautiful, attractive, and have a trademark quality. Pretty gets boring fast. Pretty with a signature features rarely does...

Here is the movie the little princess if you want to watch it. Youtube part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTa3V2AdfNk

Emily,

You come from the same breed and have the same hatred and contempt as KKK or Al Qaeda.

You are no different from some muslim radicalist preaching the islamic superiority.

Initially I was fooled into thinking this was a site about feminine looks but really it's all about white looks, superiority of white looks, the inferiority of every other race so how dare you tell me not to be political when your motives are completely political?

The sensible thing would be to dissociate and ignore such vile people but it just disturbs me to know ignorant, racist and bigoted people like you exist even in today's progressive world.

dude, i don't know what you're talking about. i know a lot of mixed race people who look good. so what if they get most of their good looks from their white genes? they still are better looking than mos whites and your beloved nordic race. and both the whites and the coloreds agree about that. except maybe you.

"I could use photos from Iceland, for example. People there are some of the most beautiful on Earth, well-known for their good looks."

Iceland??? I don't know... Try Brazil. Or Italy. Or Spain. Or France.

"However, life is not black and white and anything written here is not black and white. Truth of the matter is even most scientists can have trouble being completely detached and objective. Even without realizing it people are more keen to believe what they want to based on their personality, the way their brain works, their life experiences, etc. So I believe that most everyone that writes here is somehow biased."

Having spent eight years of my life as a scientist in training, I totally agree with this. I have read so many articles about beauty hailing the neotenous feminine face, which is the kind of beauty I see here and the kind of beauty white females have. But how does that explain that the women considered the world's greatest beauties are the following?

Catherine Zeta Jones

Monica Bellucci

Aishwarya Rai

Elizabeth Taylor

Angelina Jolie

You know, I would love to see what you look like since you are obviously so unattractive no woman wants to go out with you and you need to curb your frustration by dissecting pictures of womens naked bodies "in the name of research". Seriously, upload a picture of yourself naked and we will tell you how masculine you look. Women are not measurements and ratios, they're people. No-one cares about image to the point that they are going to ask to check a womans waist to hip ratio before dating them. Theres such a thing called personality and since you decide to spend your time sifting through porn judging pictures of women like they're objects, you clearly have a shitty one. As is blatently obvious from the comments above, no-one was comforted by this website. So delete it an go get some therapy for your mother issues.

Fuck you very much

re hmhm,
I've known scientists over the years and most had a definite preference for the cute, neotenous features that Erik likes. Of these most were convinced that their preferences were universal and that every man was after the hypergirly type that they liked. However in my observation the average man are less interested in how objectively feminine a woman is based on her hormone levels, but how masculine she makes him feel. Consider for example Clemente Russo.

Image

A boxer who won a silver medal in the 2008 Olympics, he is a very masculine man as well as nationally famous in Italy and surely has his pick of women. Here are his wedding pictures.ImageImage

Ignoring for now the incredibly tacky wedding outfits, I may be much more forgiving than Erik in these matters but the bride obviously has above average masculinity for a woman. However, next to her lantern-jawed groom she is almost dainty and there's no question who is more masculine between the two of them. Doubtless he wants his wife to make him feel masculine but because he is so masculine already he will be masculine compared to almost any woman whether or not she is particularly feminine. Also, very masculine men sometimes have trouble relating to very feminine women and find a that they have more in common with a guyish chick instead of a very girly girl. Also, a highly masculine man like Russo probably wants much more sex than a high estrogen type will like and is likely more sexually compatible with his surely high testosterone bride. Her visage is a bit scary but considering that her groom gets into the boxing ring with huge, strong men who want to bash his brains it's clear that he doesn't scare easily.

Basically, although nearly every heterosexual man wants a woman who is feminine compared to him not all of them want super-feminine women.

Hi just noting,

Matches between a masculine man and a feminine woman have a higher rate of failure than between masculine and stronger featured women.

Men tend to settle down with women who have a similar face structure as their mother which in turn translates to women that are a female version of themselves. That is why a lot of couples look like brothers and sisters. How does this happen? When you are an infant, who is the most beautiful woman or man for you? Your mother or your father! As an adult you will look for partner's who have your parent's facial bone structure(not necessarily colour of eyes or hair).

Eg, Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore

Masculine men will choose masculine women and feminine men will choose feminine women.
This is not the norm but the chances of a succesful marriage are higher when this happens. Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder.

Clemente Russo is hot and that is the tackiest wedding dress!

What was the theme of the wedding? White trash or Pimps and Hos? LOL.

""I am proud of my heritage and of my people/race, and I which to see it preserved. I see lots of people benefitting from white-mixing, and very little coming our way, so it is very one-sided, I think. The recessive nature of white genes also makes it necessary to breed more within the race, unless you want to see it disappear. This is a biologic, evolutionary fact, no matter how politically incorrect it may be.""

"You do realize it will take thousands of years before that happens right? "

"No, I don't. Evolution can be quicker than you think. Even now the amount of babies born in the US with blue eyes is declining, so it is happening right now. Race-mixing advocates like to say this is not real, but it is. Only an idiot would think that you can open the doors to mass-immigration by other races/ethnicities without any consequences to the white population living there originally."

You initially said that white genes will "disappear" and therefore it is necessary to breed more within the race. You did not say what you said later, that there would simply be less white genes around. Actually blue-eyed and blond-haired genes will never die out or disappear, though we may see fewer in the future. The whole scenario of blonde extinction is nothing more than an urban legend, one that has apparently been around for a while: http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/blondes.asp So, I was actually incorrect when I said it will take thousands of years. It won't happen at all. See this site for some more info about genetics: http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/blondes.asp Also, this article is just cool (dizygotic twins, one black, one white): http://foreigndispatches.typepad.com/dispatches/2006/02/blondes_not_goi.html

"Trying to make people appreciate more natural and feminine women, and less hard, overly thin an masculine women, seems to me perfectly reasonable. The almost total disappearance of these women as standards of beauty in the media is what is worrying. That's what you get when homosexual men are allowed to set the standard, apparently."

While this is the trend in the fashion industry (at least in runway), I don't think it is the trend in the media in general. Even the fashion industry is trying to move away from overly skinny models due to some recent high-profile deaths. I believe the Milan fashion show is requiring models to be above a certain BMI now (still too low, but it's a start). In the media in general, we see actresses with all different body shapes (even if most are skinny, their shapes differ due to genetics). The tagline of the moment seems to be "real women have curves." Actually real women have many different shapes. I'm not that curvy, but I'm certainly a real woman, and I'm sure there are plenty of men out there that will appreciate me the way I am (esp. since the lower estrogen level allows my testosterone level to be expressed in my sex drive). Speaking of sex drive and testosterone, wouldn't it be an evolutionary advantage for a woman to have a strong sex drive if she wishes to see her genes pass on?

"It is not a good idea. This is not primarily a self-help site, or a forum for people with self-esteem issues. On the contrary, since it deals with perfection, in a way, and with beauty ideals and feminine role models, many would feel worse after visiting here.

Those who have healthy self-esteem and who want to talk about femininity and beauty in the media, and who think the homosexual ideal of masculine and anorexic women has gone overboard and wish to address that - without investing their own personal self in it - are more likely to find it to their liking.

The tone here tells me too many have deep inferiority complexes and issues with their bodies. I do NOT think this site is suitable for these people, and they should address their own problems somewhere else, instead of venting their anger and frustration on those who are here to discuss beauty and femininity in a rational and more detached way."

Well, like I said, it was a moment of weakness. I had been through a recent break-up at the time, but I'm over it now. FWIW, I wasn't actually looking to the site for any sort of "self-help." I was merely looking for pictures of the female form in it's natural state in all different shapes, sizes, and colors, just out of curiosity and out of an appreciation for the diversity in life. Appreciating diversity in beauty does have the side effect of making me feel more beautiful as well, but I wasn't really looking for anything validating in terms of a & b are beautiful and x & y are not. I find it kind of strange actually. Really, I'm overall pretty comfortable in my own skin. Every now and then, I have an "ugly day", but I also have "pretty days" too. I admit to being offended at first by the site, but really, now I just treat it with a grain of salt because it is all opinion after all. Beyond one man's opinion, I don't think there is any scientific merit to the arguments made on this site, so why bother, I guess.

"Then you presume that the 50/50 % is the same as gaining equally..in other words, that all races benefit equally. I don't think that is the case.

I would argue that racially mixed, good-