Sarah: Don’t be under any delusions regarding Tara Conner. Go through her entries within this site: Part 1, Part 2. The studies regarding correlates of beauty, examples of feminine and attractive women shown within this site and the comparisons make a compelling case for what the public finds to be attractive looks, and these are nowhere close to the looks of Ms. Conner. I didn’t take a poll of people regarding how attractive they find Rachel Smith, but this is hardly necessary; just look at her. The typical person who takes a good look at the contestants shown above should immediately realize that the contest these women participated in had little to do with beauty as it is understood by most people.
So you would not bother commenting if I had stated that this site is my opinion? Why bother to comment at all if it is obvious to you that this site is merely someone’s opinion? Shouldn’t this be obvious to others, too? And, how are your comments going to prevent people from being mislead by this site given that they are devoid of scientific counter arguments?
Tara Conner won the crown because that is what most people find to be beautiful (at least here in the U.S., anyways.) You may not agree, and even I may not agree, but that is the general consensus.
Rachel Smith is also considered beautiful in most peoples' eyes. YOUR opinion doesn't matter, and no, it isn't factual information that she is unattractive. Again, YOUR opinion. Get over yourself. You are not the general population. You are just ONE guy with too much time on his hands.
Also, where you listed the 4 women you thought were the most attractive, you put that it was a "general public perspective." Did you take a poll from the general public? Was there something I missed?
I would not have a problem at all and wouldn't even bother commenting if you had stated this site was only YOUR opinion, but you have commented time and time again that you actually really believe this is factual. Just because you cited some studies you found doesn't make anything about this factual at all. Your website is certainly not very informative nor is it the general view of most men. It's just a very loooong rant.
Looks like I hit a sore spot in old Erik here. I would quote some sentences in your response but your page will not allow me to highlight so I'll just address them loosely.
No, I haven't noticed that European women have smaller facial features than Asian ones. I actually see the exact opposite. If that is what YOU really see, then that is only from your experience/opinion. It is not factual. Sorry buddy.
By worldly standards, women of East Asian descent DO have smaller and more delicate features. That is why they are stereotyped to always look childish and younger than they are, and even older Asian women look much more youthful than older white women. As for noses, white women may generally have more NARROW noses, but Asian noses tend to be smaller and less protruding. Their cheekbones are also generally less sharp and their chins more rounded than the average white female's.
Your idea of what "feminization" (is that even a word?) is only YOUR opinion. European women may have longer legs, as one of your silly articles provided as a "fact", but that is because they are generally taller. Taller doesn't equal "feminization." That's why those fashion models you hate so much and consider to be so masculine are tall, along with their masculinized faces.
When you generalize based on racial features, you have to consider the fact that you yourself have not seen every single women out there in this world, so you cannot say that on average, most European women are this, most black women are that, etc etc. You only base your evidence on pictures of certain women you see on the internet, and you pick and choose which ones to feature.
For example, here is a photo of Dawn Yang, who happens to be full Asian and has long legs despite how short she is.
Their delicate and feminine facial features are why Asian women are always typecasted as "cute" - they have very similar facial features to those of children. Their short stature and slim bodies also add to their supposed cuteness. They also are less insusceptable to cellulite than white women, and have more youthful looking skin in general.
"So who has more delicate features, Asian or European women?" is what you ask. Well I say, ASIAN WOMEN.
As for obesity... although every race is prone to it, most obese women ARE of European ancestry. I wouldn't put it on their genes, though, because I don't have factual evidence. I think it mostly has to do with how much food we hog here in America and in the United Kingdom, and also because we have no self control. Then these obese women complain about the media and the modeling industry always hiring and promoting skinny women. WELL NO SHIT! Fat isn't cute, and no one wants to buy lingerie modeled by a fat woman.
As for Latinas (NOT Hispanics... learn your terms before using them) , they are prone to have fuller bottoms, but your claim that European women are less prone to become obese than Latinas is absolutely ridiculous. Care to provide statistical imformation for your statement? From experience in my family and also in what I see on a daily basis, for some reason, white women are almost always more overweight.
YOU were the one who addressed men in your last post, so don't get all pouty when I bring them up. If you weren't so insecure about yourself, you wouldn't get so jumpy when I mention anything about black males being more masculine than white ones, now would you? From experience, I happen to have formed the opinion that black males ARE more well endowed, and there are some studies I have come across that have shown evidence of that. It wouldn't be such a known generalization if there wasn't a possibility for it being true.
The Olympics isn't even relevant. It is based on country representation and the countries with the most athletes competing are predominantly white (the U.S., Australia, etc.) Also, do you really think most African men have so much free time as to participate in the Olympics? Because we're so wealthy here in America, of course some of us will dedicate our life to training to become an athlete. I'm also guessing you've never seen numerous one-on-one fights between a white male and a black male, now have you? Or have you yourself been in one and had your butt kicked and that is why you're so bitter and insecure?
I didn't actually intend to post the above comment on the Pamela Anderson page as it has more to do with the young high fashion models and nothing to do with Pamela. Sorry.
I find what you are saying here interesting and much of it I agree with - I came across the site while I was researching hormone levels in female maturation and how that affects fertility. I have one comment to add...I'm not sure if you mentioned this elsewhere in the site - but many professional high fashion models are teenage girls who haven't finished developing yet - hence the lanky out-of-proportion looking bodies. Many of these girls stop getting modeling work when their hips develop and broaden, and even though they are maintaining an extremely low BMI they are told they are "too fat" because their hip bones have become too wide for the sample clothes.
Oh, also I'm not sure why you classify high cheekbones as masculine. I understand that you're talking about mainly Western European traits here, but high cheekbones in women from most other parts of the world (Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Middle East, Native Americans, etc.) seem to be pretty standard (and attractive), don't they?
Thanks for taking the time to read my comments, and once again, sorry if they are redundant.
i did not say having a square jaw means you look mascluine i said a square jaw looks masculine which it does. i find square jawed women unattractive even if they look feminine overall as you keep putting it, but thats my opinion.
Celina: See these two pictures of Audrey Hepburn: 1, 2. You should note some masculinization. Brigitte Bardot is feminine. I have addressed the looks of both Ana Beatriz Barros and Adriana Lima; both women are masculinized. The large picture of Adriana you posted is heavily airbrushed, but if you go through her entry within this site, you will note some masculinization. You got it right about Eva Mendez; I couldn’t have described it better.
Sarah: Miss USA is about who is the most beautiful? Haven’t you seen an extensive discussion of the looks of the previous Miss USA, Tara Conner, within this site? Who finds a fake and unfeminine woman like her beautiful enough to be designated Miss USA? Besides, femininity is a very powerful correlate of beauty in women, i.e., it would be very important if the Miss USA pageant were about what the general public finds to be beautiful. I am not going to defend the looks of Ms. Melomud since I haven’t seen clear pictures of her, but Rachel Smith is an unattractive woman. If she were white, I would have addressed her looks right after she had won, but finding a suitable ethnic match is a pain and the matter is not a priority. So what if Alla isn’t feminine enough? You have already pointed out my comment that femininity does not necessarily equal attractiveness, i.e., somewhat masculinized women can look good. Alla looks better than the masculinized women above her.
Sarah: Do not misrepresent my arguments or make me repeat what should be clear. You have obviously read enough of this site to have come across my response to similar arguments before. Shorter or more slender bodies do not imply greater femininity unless you can show that they result from increased feminization. I have already pointed out that the sex steroid profiles of European women are more feminine than those of Asian women, i.e., what you allege to be more feminine traits of Asian women are not more feminine traits but ethnic traits unrelated to feminization. Nobody should be accusing me of judging femininity in term of single features such as breast size. I have had to repeatedly point out that the argument that you are objecting to is not about actual femininity but about how feminine one looks, which is decided by overall appearance. Women of which ethnic group are most likely to have an hourglass figure? Haven’t you noticed that European women have, on average, smaller faces, narrower noses, smaller jaws, smaller teeth and smaller cheekbones than East Asian women? So who has more delicate facial features, on average? There are obese women in all ethnic groups, and white women, especially Northern Europeans, are less prone to obesity than women in most populations (including Hispanics) except a few such as Northeast Asians, but controlling for ancestry, obese women are more masculine, i.e., don’t bring obese women into the picture.
Don’t bring men into the debate since this site is not about them. Look up the statistics on who wins the most Olympics gold medals and top honors in weight lifting, powerlifting, wrestling, martial arts and miscellaneous strength competitions. White men. So don’t tell me that sub-Saharan African men are more athletic; they just dominate a small minority of sports. As far as endowment goes, the difference between white and sub-Saharan African men is small, which I believe is in favor of the latter. There are studies where no difference has been found (example). Besides, African-American and white men are well-matched for height. Like I said before, the differences between these groups is a mixed bag, and it does not follow that West African men are more masculine unless you have a compelling argument to make.
Thanks for that. I never thought Audrey was masculine at all very femminine and very beautiful. Every inch of her face womanly.
Here are some more models actress with faces faces that are either femminine or masculine. I would also like to know if I'm right if they're femminine or masculine.
Ana Beatriz Barros. I always thought she looked very femminine,bu other
In regards to looks in a beauty pagaent, Miss USA is about who is the most beautiful - not the most feminine. You said yourself that feminine doesn't necessarily equal attractive.
Rachel Smith, although a bit masculinized, is still very beautiful. Much more beautiful than average Anna Melomud, anways.
I believe what BS is trying to say is that it is known (although stereotypical) that Asian women are more feminine (small, dainty bodies and youthful faces) and black males are more masculine (larger penis, taller, etc.) Although this is a generalization, for the most part it is true, and I think he/she finds it as amusing as I do that you always try to promote European women to be more feminine than non-whites and European men to be more masculine. What YOU consider to be feminine/masculine isn't neccessarily what everyone else would, either. For example, femininity to me is in DELICATE features, and not how big a woman's breasts are. If a woman has small breasts, it doesn't mean she is less feminine than a larger breasted woman, and the same thing goes for men with muscular figures.
It's also quite amusing that you generalize white women to be the most feminine when they happen to be the most overweight. Big and chunky (or curvy as they like to call themselves)doesn't equal feminine. This is coming from someone who is white, but also has Latina blood, and I can assure you from comparing the women on my mother's side to the ones on my father's, my good genes DO come from my Latina mother. Both of my aunts on my father's side are overweight, while my mother as well as her sisters are very fit. My two aunts on my dad's side also has a shitload of cellulite, and their pastey complexion doesn't exactly help it either.
As for black men, I have come across many statistics where they are proven to be the most well endowed (down there) as well as the most athletic. If you question this, I will be happy to link a few reliable sources for your ohhhh so scientific website *rolls eyes*
J: Looks matter to this site, not the behavior or morals of the women shown. To illustrate correlates of physical attractiveness, it is necessary to show women in a minimal state of dress, and there are few alternatives currently other than using mostly nude models for illustrative purposes. As a side note, whereas Melisande above has done some porn work, Carli and the vast majority of women in the attractive women section are not involved in porn.
J: Giselle’s skinniness is not being made fun of; she is not skinny in the pictures shown above. Her masculinization is being pointed out, not made fun of.
OMG what a bunch of haters here. i am a model. y do ppl have to make their fat selves feel better by making fun of naturall thin beaiful women? everyone has heir own natural weight, maybe your fat maybe your thin.. why cant you just get over it!
Ella: Most nude models shown within this site are not porn models and if there were enough feminine fashion models around, there would be no need to resort to nude models, but then there would be no need for this site in the first place. Feminine beauty is not average or typical, and most girls walking down the street do not possess it. Feminine beauty is sufficiently uncommon to satisfy the need for a different look among fashion models, but the gays dominating the fashion industry would generally have none of it and their preferences are responsible for why a boyish body is needed for fashion modeling. Aside from the preferences of gay fashion designers, there is no need whatsoever for boyish looks among high-fashion models; see Table 2 here and read the rest of the page.
Of course, Zemanova would not be offered a VS contract even if she had never posed nude or gotten breast implants, and because her appearance is too feminine for the company. Victoria’s Secret uses plenty of lingerie models with large breast implants -- Adriana has implants, too -- and if you go through the attractive women section of this site, you will encounter numerous feminine women with small- to medium-sized breasts, but the latter will not be used because of their “excessive femininity” from the perspective of the company. Do you have a reliable citation that Veronika Zemanova has had her chin altered? Please don’t tell me that top-notch fashion models like Adriana Lima have their pictures less airbrushed by high profile fashion media compared to lowly models like Ms. Zemanova in low-profile publications.
None of the women contrasted with Adriana Lima above look boyish. Marketa was shown to illustrate what girlish looks are about; calling her boyish and fat-faced is beyond ridiculous. I don’t like Gigi’s face and would not put her in the attractive women section; I posted her pictures to mess around with Madeline. You have left a detailed comment regarding Gigi’s face even though the first part of this series has noted that the face is not of primary importance to lingerie modeling and should not be focused upon. Both Veronika and Gigi have physiques that are overall better suited to lingerie modeling than Adriana’s, even if you object to the size of their breasts.
Andy: A “square jaw” on its own is not masculine. There are plenty of masculine men without a square jawline, though their chin would generally be squared.
Celina: Audrey Hepburn did not look manly. None of her features that you pointed out suggest masculinity by themselves. With respect to masculinity-femininity, her face is best described as slightly toward the masculine side, which is not obvious in a number of her pictures, but she was indeed an attractive woman.
Anonymous: Use a different pseudonym. I believe you are joking. Anyway, it is a mistake to believe that gaining weight does not alter WHR. When food intake exceeds the body’s needs, women vary with respect to the proportion of body fat deposited in the abdominal region and the hips region. In addition, WHR by itself is not sufficient to characterize the attractiveness of the waist-hip region as the discussion above clearly shows. If you increase the size of both the waist and hips and keep WHR constant, the woman will appear to be heavier and beyond a certain point, this will undermine her attractiveness. WHR tends to increase with childbirth and aging. You have not provided any information about your age or how long it took for your WHR to increase by 0.1 or whether this increase occurred after childbirth.
Millie: You have come to the correct conclusion that body esteem problems cannot be resolved in all cases, and this holds regardless of what the ideal is or even if there is no ideal because people are born with a basic aesthetic sense, and some are bound to find themselves short of their own standards. It is not my intention to replace all female looks ideals with a feminine beauty standard, and this is not possible either. Feminine beauty would be inappropriate in numerous scenarios, as in obtaining models to market sporting goods. I wish to see at least one mainstream outlet for feminine beauty appreciation. Given the gay domination of the fashion business, the only realistic prospect of typically seeing feminine women used for high-fashion modeling is to come up with an alternative fashion industry, a long shot but not impossible.
You claim that in society, a woman’s worth is significantly based on her physical attractiveness, but women are themselves part of this society, and as explained above, are directly responsible for the pressure many women feel to look attractive. High worth for men, involving riches and power, is beyond the reach of most men, and men, though less inconvenienced by a need to look attractive, are a lot more inconvenienced than women with respect to acquiring riches.
As I mentioned previously, one cannot indulge in negative health behaviors to acquire feminine beauty, and a feminine beauty ideal is naturally harbored by most women, i.e., seeing it in the limelight will not be disturbing for most women. Therefore, if one had to choose between a skinny fashion ideal and a feminine beauty ideal, the feminine beauty ideal is clearly more natural and healthy, thereby being a better deal for women. Attempting to acquire the skinny looks of high-fashion models would undermine health and disempower women on several counts since the process would take their time and they will have less energy left to pursue other endeavors to empower themselves. Even if feminine beauty cannot be acquired by modifying behavior, many people have the maturity to realize, and others should try to understand, that one should not derive a sense of worth based on how one looks. Good looks and youth do not last forever. Some things can be done to improve looks, but beyond this, it is highly recommended that people derive their sense of worth through means such as behavior and accomplishments. It is by no means the case that the only route to empowerment is improving one’s looks.
Once again, this site is aiming toward setting up a competing looks standard in the limelight, not replacing all "ideals" with feminine beauty.
Sarah: Don’t be under any delusions regarding Tara Conner. Go through her entries within this site: Part 1, Part 2. The studies regarding correlates of beauty, examples of feminine and attractive women shown within this site and the comparisons make a compelling case for what the public finds to be attractive looks, and these are nowhere close to the looks of Ms. Conner. I didn’t take a poll of people regarding how attractive they find Rachel Smith, but this is hardly necessary; just look at her. The typical person who takes a good look at the contestants shown above should immediately realize that the contest these women participated in had little to do with beauty as it is understood by most people.
So you would not bother commenting if I had stated that this site is my opinion? Why bother to comment at all if it is obvious to you that this site is merely someone’s opinion? Shouldn’t this be obvious to others, too? And, how are your comments going to prevent people from being mislead by this site given that they are devoid of scientific counter arguments?
Tara Conner won the crown because that is what most people find to be beautiful (at least here in the U.S., anyways.) You may not agree, and even I may not agree, but that is the general consensus.
Rachel Smith is also considered beautiful in most peoples' eyes. YOUR opinion doesn't matter, and no, it isn't factual information that she is unattractive. Again, YOUR opinion. Get over yourself. You are not the general population. You are just ONE guy with too much time on his hands.
Also, where you listed the 4 women you thought were the most attractive, you put that it was a "general public perspective." Did you take a poll from the general public? Was there something I missed?
I would not have a problem at all and wouldn't even bother commenting if you had stated this site was only YOUR opinion, but you have commented time and time again that you actually really believe this is factual. Just because you cited some studies you found doesn't make anything about this factual at all. Your website is certainly not very informative nor is it the general view of most men. It's just a very loooong rant.
*less susceptable
Ahahahahahaah
Looks like I hit a sore spot in old Erik here. I would quote some sentences in your response but your page will not allow me to highlight so I'll just address them loosely.
No, I haven't noticed that European women have smaller facial features than Asian ones. I actually see the exact opposite. If that is what YOU really see, then that is only from your experience/opinion. It is not factual. Sorry buddy.
By worldly standards, women of East Asian descent DO have smaller and more delicate features. That is why they are stereotyped to always look childish and younger than they are, and even older Asian women look much more youthful than older white women. As for noses, white women may generally have more NARROW noses, but Asian noses tend to be smaller and less protruding. Their cheekbones are also generally less sharp and their chins more rounded than the average white female's.
Your idea of what "feminization" (is that even a word?) is only YOUR opinion. European women may have longer legs, as one of your silly articles provided as a "fact", but that is because they are generally taller. Taller doesn't equal "feminization." That's why those fashion models you hate so much and consider to be so masculine are tall, along with their masculinized faces.
When you generalize based on racial features, you have to consider the fact that you yourself have not seen every single women out there in this world, so you cannot say that on average, most European women are this, most black women are that, etc etc. You only base your evidence on pictures of certain women you see on the internet, and you pick and choose which ones to feature.
For example, here is a photo of Dawn Yang, who happens to be full Asian and has long legs despite how short she is.
http://x14.xanga.com/58083b5050108112026021/m79849784.jpg
Here is a photo of her face which is a very excellent representation of femininity:
http://x12.xanga.com/4e3d20f2c4030112026775/m79850410.jpg
Their delicate and feminine facial features are why Asian women are always typecasted as "cute" - they have very similar facial features to those of children. Their short stature and slim bodies also add to their supposed cuteness. They also are less insusceptable to cellulite than white women, and have more youthful looking skin in general.
"So who has more delicate features, Asian or European women?" is what you ask. Well I say, ASIAN WOMEN.
As for obesity... although every race is prone to it, most obese women ARE of European ancestry. I wouldn't put it on their genes, though, because I don't have factual evidence. I think it mostly has to do with how much food we hog here in America and in the United Kingdom, and also because we have no self control. Then these obese women complain about the media and the modeling industry always hiring and promoting skinny women. WELL NO SHIT! Fat isn't cute, and no one wants to buy lingerie modeled by a fat woman.
As for Latinas (NOT Hispanics... learn your terms before using them) , they are prone to have fuller bottoms, but your claim that European women are less prone to become obese than Latinas is absolutely ridiculous. Care to provide statistical imformation for your statement? From experience in my family and also in what I see on a daily basis, for some reason, white women are almost always more overweight.
YOU were the one who addressed men in your last post, so don't get all pouty when I bring them up. If you weren't so insecure about yourself, you wouldn't get so jumpy when I mention anything about black males being more masculine than white ones, now would you? From experience, I happen to have formed the opinion that black males ARE more well endowed, and there are some studies I have come across that have shown evidence of that. It wouldn't be such a known generalization if there wasn't a possibility for it being true.
The Olympics isn't even relevant. It is based on country representation and the countries with the most athletes competing are predominantly white (the U.S., Australia, etc.) Also, do you really think most African men have so much free time as to participate in the Olympics? Because we're so wealthy here in America, of course some of us will dedicate our life to training to become an athlete. I'm also guessing you've never seen numerous one-on-one fights between a white male and a black male, now have you? Or have you yourself been in one and had your butt kicked and that is why you're so bitter and insecure?
I didn't actually intend to post the above comment on the Pamela Anderson page as it has more to do with the young high fashion models and nothing to do with Pamela. Sorry.
I find what you are saying here interesting and much of it I agree with - I came across the site while I was researching hormone levels in female maturation and how that affects fertility. I have one comment to add...I'm not sure if you mentioned this elsewhere in the site - but many professional high fashion models are teenage girls who haven't finished developing yet - hence the lanky out-of-proportion looking bodies. Many of these girls stop getting modeling work when their hips develop and broaden, and even though they are maintaining an extremely low BMI they are told they are "too fat" because their hip bones have become too wide for the sample clothes.
Oh, also I'm not sure why you classify high cheekbones as masculine. I understand that you're talking about mainly Western European traits here, but high cheekbones in women from most other parts of the world (Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, the Middle East, Native Americans, etc.) seem to be pretty standard (and attractive), don't they?
Thanks for taking the time to read my comments, and once again, sorry if they are redundant.
What you are trying to say through this site, with atypical coyness, is that you don't like gays. Why be so indirect?
erik,
i did not say having a square jaw means you look mascluine i said a square jaw looks masculine which it does. i find square jawed women unattractive even if they look feminine overall as you keep putting it, but thats my opinion.
Celina: See these two pictures of Audrey Hepburn: 1, 2. You should note some masculinization. Brigitte Bardot is feminine. I have addressed the looks of both Ana Beatriz Barros and Adriana Lima; both women are masculinized. The large picture of Adriana you posted is heavily airbrushed, but if you go through her entry within this site, you will note some masculinization. You got it right about Eva Mendez; I couldn’t have described it better.
Sarah: Miss USA is about who is the most beautiful? Haven’t you seen an extensive discussion of the looks of the previous Miss USA, Tara Conner, within this site? Who finds a fake and unfeminine woman like her beautiful enough to be designated Miss USA? Besides, femininity is a very powerful correlate of beauty in women, i.e., it would be very important if the Miss USA pageant were about what the general public finds to be beautiful. I am not going to defend the looks of Ms. Melomud since I haven’t seen clear pictures of her, but Rachel Smith is an unattractive woman. If she were white, I would have addressed her looks right after she had won, but finding a suitable ethnic match is a pain and the matter is not a priority. So what if Alla isn’t feminine enough? You have already pointed out my comment that femininity does not necessarily equal attractiveness, i.e., somewhat masculinized women can look good. Alla looks better than the masculinized women above her.
Sarah: Do not misrepresent my arguments or make me repeat what should be clear. You have obviously read enough of this site to have come across my response to similar arguments before. Shorter or more slender bodies do not imply greater femininity unless you can show that they result from increased feminization. I have already pointed out that the sex steroid profiles of European women are more feminine than those of Asian women, i.e., what you allege to be more feminine traits of Asian women are not more feminine traits but ethnic traits unrelated to feminization. Nobody should be accusing me of judging femininity in term of single features such as breast size. I have had to repeatedly point out that the argument that you are objecting to is not about actual femininity but about how feminine one looks, which is decided by overall appearance. Women of which ethnic group are most likely to have an hourglass figure? Haven’t you noticed that European women have, on average, smaller faces, narrower noses, smaller jaws, smaller teeth and smaller cheekbones than East Asian women? So who has more delicate facial features, on average? There are obese women in all ethnic groups, and white women, especially Northern Europeans, are less prone to obesity than women in most populations (including Hispanics) except a few such as Northeast Asians, but controlling for ancestry, obese women are more masculine, i.e., don’t bring obese women into the picture.
Don’t bring men into the debate since this site is not about them. Look up the statistics on who wins the most Olympics gold medals and top honors in weight lifting, powerlifting, wrestling, martial arts and miscellaneous strength competitions. White men. So don’t tell me that sub-Saharan African men are more athletic; they just dominate a small minority of sports. As far as endowment goes, the difference between white and sub-Saharan African men is small, which I believe is in favor of the latter. There are studies where no difference has been found (example). Besides, African-American and white men are well-matched for height. Like I said before, the differences between these groups is a mixed bag, and it does not follow that West African men are more masculine unless you have a compelling argument to make.
Miss Minnesota (Alli whatever) isn't looking too feminine, either. I could picture her without hair and she would definitely be mistaken to be a guy.
Thanks for that. I never thought Audrey was masculine at all very femminine and very beautiful. Every inch of her face womanly.
Here are some more models actress with faces faces that are either femminine or masculine. I would also like to know if I'm right if they're femminine or masculine.
Ana Beatriz Barros. I always thought she looked very femminine,bu other
people said she looked masculine
http://www.ana-beatriz-barros.net/pictures/Ana%20Beatriz
http://images.askmen.com/imagesmodel/2001_jan/ana_beatriz_barros/ana_beatriz_barros_150b.jpg
Next one is Brigitte Bardot. I think she looks very femminine
http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebs/bridgetbardot/bridget_bardot_1.jpg
http://arflovers.com/images/content/07_05_06_france8a.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/6304502044/ref=dp_image_0/104-3963758-6954318?ie=UTF8&n=404272&s=video
Adrina Lima
another
supermodel, they say asupermodles thye're usually masculine in their features, well for Adriana I think she has very female except
for body.
http://www.askmen.com/specials/2005_top_99/celebs/1_adriana_lima.jpg
http://www.celebrityunofficial.com/celebrity_photos/adriana_lima/adriana_lima_3.jpg
http://hollywood.outsidethebeltway.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/adriana_lima_gq0405-thumb.jpg
Now actress Eva Mendes. Who, I consider
quite masculine,androgynous,tranny,intersex looking.
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/257984~Eva-Mendes-Posters.jpg
http://www.oceleb.com/img/eva-mendes/eva-mendes.jpg
http://www.filmfestivals.com/images/capri2005/images/Eva%20Mendes%204.jpg
pure man
http://www.americangirl.co.uk/images/Eva_Mendes21_300.jpg
In regards to looks in a beauty pagaent, Miss USA is about who is the most beautiful - not the most feminine. You said yourself that feminine doesn't necessarily equal attractive.
Rachel Smith, although a bit masculinized, is still very beautiful. Much more beautiful than average Anna Melomud, anways.
That should say "have a shitload of cellulite."
I believe what BS is trying to say is that it is known (although stereotypical) that Asian women are more feminine (small, dainty bodies and youthful faces) and black males are more masculine (larger penis, taller, etc.) Although this is a generalization, for the most part it is true, and I think he/she finds it as amusing as I do that you always try to promote European women to be more feminine than non-whites and European men to be more masculine. What YOU consider to be feminine/masculine isn't neccessarily what everyone else would, either. For example, femininity to me is in DELICATE features, and not how big a woman's breasts are. If a woman has small breasts, it doesn't mean she is less feminine than a larger breasted woman, and the same thing goes for men with muscular figures.
It's also quite amusing that you generalize white women to be the most feminine when they happen to be the most overweight. Big and chunky (or curvy as they like to call themselves)doesn't equal feminine. This is coming from someone who is white, but also has Latina blood, and I can assure you from comparing the women on my mother's side to the ones on my father's, my good genes DO come from my Latina mother. Both of my aunts on my father's side are overweight, while my mother as well as her sisters are very fit. My two aunts on my dad's side also has a shitload of cellulite, and their pastey complexion doesn't exactly help it either.
As for black men, I have come across many statistics where they are proven to be the most well endowed (down there) as well as the most athletic. If you question this, I will be happy to link a few reliable sources for your ohhhh so scientific website *rolls eyes*
J: Looks matter to this site, not the behavior or morals of the women shown. To illustrate correlates of physical attractiveness, it is necessary to show women in a minimal state of dress, and there are few alternatives currently other than using mostly nude models for illustrative purposes. As a side note, whereas Melisande above has done some porn work, Carli and the vast majority of women in the attractive women section are not involved in porn.
J: Giselle’s skinniness is not being made fun of; she is not skinny in the pictures shown above. Her masculinization is being pointed out, not made fun of.
y are sluts and porn stars the only women you find attractive?
OMG what a bunch of haters here. i am a model. y do ppl have to make their fat selves feel better by making fun of naturall thin beaiful women? everyone has heir own natural weight, maybe your fat maybe your thin.. why cant you just get over it!
gemma ward has like no boobs at all.
Ella: Most nude models shown within this site are not porn models and if there were enough feminine fashion models around, there would be no need to resort to nude models, but then there would be no need for this site in the first place. Feminine beauty is not average or typical, and most girls walking down the street do not possess it. Feminine beauty is sufficiently uncommon to satisfy the need for a different look among fashion models, but the gays dominating the fashion industry would generally have none of it and their preferences are responsible for why a boyish body is needed for fashion modeling. Aside from the preferences of gay fashion designers, there is no need whatsoever for boyish looks among high-fashion models; see Table 2 here and read the rest of the page.
Of course, Zemanova would not be offered a VS contract even if she had never posed nude or gotten breast implants, and because her appearance is too feminine for the company. Victoria’s Secret uses plenty of lingerie models with large breast implants -- Adriana has implants, too -- and if you go through the attractive women section of this site, you will encounter numerous feminine women with small- to medium-sized breasts, but the latter will not be used because of their “excessive femininity” from the perspective of the company. Do you have a reliable citation that Veronika Zemanova has had her chin altered? Please don’t tell me that top-notch fashion models like Adriana Lima have their pictures less airbrushed by high profile fashion media compared to lowly models like Ms. Zemanova in low-profile publications.
None of the women contrasted with Adriana Lima above look boyish. Marketa was shown to illustrate what girlish looks are about; calling her boyish and fat-faced is beyond ridiculous. I don’t like Gigi’s face and would not put her in the attractive women section; I posted her pictures to mess around with Madeline. You have left a detailed comment regarding Gigi’s face even though the first part of this series has noted that the face is not of primary importance to lingerie modeling and should not be focused upon. Both Veronika and Gigi have physiques that are overall better suited to lingerie modeling than Adriana’s, even if you object to the size of their breasts.
Andy: A “square jaw” on its own is not masculine. There are plenty of masculine men without a square jawline, though their chin would generally be squared.
Celina: Audrey Hepburn did not look manly. None of her features that you pointed out suggest masculinity by themselves. With respect to masculinity-femininity, her face is best described as slightly toward the masculine side, which is not obvious in a number of her pictures, but she was indeed an attractive woman.
Anonymous: Use a different pseudonym. I believe you are joking. Anyway, it is a mistake to believe that gaining weight does not alter WHR. When food intake exceeds the body’s needs, women vary with respect to the proportion of body fat deposited in the abdominal region and the hips region. In addition, WHR by itself is not sufficient to characterize the attractiveness of the waist-hip region as the discussion above clearly shows. If you increase the size of both the waist and hips and keep WHR constant, the woman will appear to be heavier and beyond a certain point, this will undermine her attractiveness. WHR tends to increase with childbirth and aging. You have not provided any information about your age or how long it took for your WHR to increase by 0.1 or whether this increase occurred after childbirth.
Millie: You have come to the correct conclusion that body esteem problems cannot be resolved in all cases, and this holds regardless of what the ideal is or even if there is no ideal because people are born with a basic aesthetic sense, and some are bound to find themselves short of their own standards. It is not my intention to replace all female looks ideals with a feminine beauty standard, and this is not possible either. Feminine beauty would be inappropriate in numerous scenarios, as in obtaining models to market sporting goods. I wish to see at least one mainstream outlet for feminine beauty appreciation. Given the gay domination of the fashion business, the only realistic prospect of typically seeing feminine women used for high-fashion modeling is to come up with an alternative fashion industry, a long shot but not impossible.
You claim that in society, a woman’s worth is significantly based on her physical attractiveness, but women are themselves part of this society, and as explained above, are directly responsible for the pressure many women feel to look attractive. High worth for men, involving riches and power, is beyond the reach of most men, and men, though less inconvenienced by a need to look attractive, are a lot more inconvenienced than women with respect to acquiring riches.
As I mentioned previously, one cannot indulge in negative health behaviors to acquire feminine beauty, and a feminine beauty ideal is naturally harbored by most women, i.e., seeing it in the limelight will not be disturbing for most women. Therefore, if one had to choose between a skinny fashion ideal and a feminine beauty ideal, the feminine beauty ideal is clearly more natural and healthy, thereby being a better deal for women. Attempting to acquire the skinny looks of high-fashion models would undermine health and disempower women on several counts since the process would take their time and they will have less energy left to pursue other endeavors to empower themselves. Even if feminine beauty cannot be acquired by modifying behavior, many people have the maturity to realize, and others should try to understand, that one should not derive a sense of worth based on how one looks. Good looks and youth do not last forever. Some things can be done to improve looks, but beyond this, it is highly recommended that people derive their sense of worth through means such as behavior and accomplishments. It is by no means the case that the only route to empowerment is improving one’s looks.
Once again, this site is aiming toward setting up a competing looks standard in the limelight, not replacing all "ideals" with feminine beauty.
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