So, my assumption is that the person behind this website is either a lonely fat girl who likes to hate on the skinny girls or a middle aged man who is balding, unattractive, out of shape, and wouldn't be able to get a woman if his life depended on it. Honestly, maybe if this person spent less time on this website and decided to maybe work on himself/herself than they would be happy enough so they didn't have to spend their lives categorizing people into feminine and masculine. Just for your information, just because a woman has a little more testosterone doesn't mean she is a man. She still has a vagina and ovaries and can still give birth to children. Also, men like soft women, but they also like strong women. Men love athletic strong women who have some soft features. You need balance. Besides, your pictures are so innacurate. You post the worst pictures of fashion models. The whole breast size thing is truly irrelevant. I mean come on. Men are known for being attracted to both full breasts and perky small breasts. Both types of breasts are signs of fertility, and therefore men are subconsiously attracted to them. Besides why are you arguing about attraction? Attraction is instinctive. Our brains are hardwired to be attracted to certain physical features. However, there is no one formula for an attractive person. Like I said full breasts and perky small breasts both indicate strong health and fertility. Attraction is a primitive way of choosing a mate. Why spend soo much time debating it? Beauty is what truly matters. How beautiful a person is physically is a totally different evaluation. Beauty was understood by man once they evolved to the point where they could reason. To understand beauty one must be capable of reasoning, one must be intelligent. On the other note, an animal 20x dumber than a human is capable of knowing what is and what is not attractive. As for the race issue. No one race is truly more attractive than the other. I am white and I am attracted to white women. However, white women are not the most attractive women on earth. I find that no particular race has more attractive women than the other. For example, white women rarely have far set eyes or full lips. Their nasal bridge is naturally more raised and therefore masculine. White women are often criticized for having flat buttocks and small breasts. However, I am extremely attracted to white women. Black women have full lips and strong coloring. A black woman will never look "washed out". They have bright eyes, never dull. They tend to have far apart eyes, and generally have full buttocks which is proven extremely attractive in women. Asian women have rounded smooth faces. They have far apart eyes and a very low nasal bridge. Their eyes are very bright as well, and asian women rarely would ever look washed out either. Asian women have beautiful thick dark hair that screams attractive and fertile. All women of all races are generally attractive. Also, multi-racial women are also extremely attractive. To argue that one race is more attractive than the other is a waste of time. White women will rarely have fuller buttocks, thick full hair, full lips. However, Asian or black women will rarely have youthful fine blonde hair or youthful blue, green or gray eyes. Again however, blonde hair and blue eyes often looks washed out and infertile. However, blonde hair and blue eyes are generally colors children display, and so the coloring makes adult women look youthful and fertile. This is the psychology behind attraction. Attraction will become less and less important in the future. While we will still be selecting our mates based on attraction, we will be selecting them because of their intelligence, personality, etc. Why? Because now we are smart enough to do so.
yes, I agree with you. She looks damn good. There is nothing unfeminine about her. Honestly, the person on this site has issues. I mean please, give me a picture of the person who writes all this crap and then I can analyze his/her characteristics and tell him/her how attractive he/she is.
fgdfg: Cartoons are supposed to be caricatures, and it is obvious that Manga characters tend to have narrower faces and narrower noses than caricatures that would be better suited to the looks of the Japanese. The key is a shift in the direction of aesthetic preferences rather than caricatures that appear completely foreign.
I have hardly discussed skin color. I don’t see much relevance of it to this site.
The underlying reason for why African-American models in magazines catering to their community are shifted toward European facial norms is unlikely to have much to do with testosterone levels. Shifts in the direction of Europeanization include more prominent nasal bones and a less prominent mouth, both the opposite of what lower testosterone levels would result in.
Roy: Good looking male African-American models also have faces shifted away from sub-Saharan African norms and toward European norms. Another apparent illustration of this issue can be found in the features of the Woodabe, a tribe in Niger. If you look at enough male Woodabe, you will note that among sub-Saharan Africans, their faces are shifted away from most sub-Saharan African groups, and in the direction of more derived shapes. A number of Woodabe men could be mistaken for men from East Africa or South Asia, regions where there is known European contribution. I am not familiar with the genetics of the Woodabe, but my guess is that the explanation of their facial features has less if anything to do with the contribution of non-sub-Saharan African genetics, but more to do with sexual selection. Among the Woodabe, the women select the men, and the women emphasize attractiveness. The Woodabe also have a low opinion of stereotypical sub-Saharan African facial features, and use terms to describe them that would be considered racist if used by non-sub-Saharan Africans (e.g., terms invoking comparisons with some of our primate relatives).
If my guess about Woodabe genetics is correct then the example of the Woodabe would be one of sexual selection leading to more derived facial features regardless of whether it acts more strongly on men or on women. I don’t buy much into Peter Frost’s ideas about sub-Saharan Africans, and more details about the matter in the article you linked can be found in a discussion we have had on masculinity. In the article you cited, Frost says in the beginning, “What is less true is the assumption that evolution stood still there [sub-Saharan Africa] while continuing elsewhere.” Why would an anthropologist resort to such a ridiculous straw man? And he doesn’t address their facial features. If, according to him, sexual selection acted more strongly on men in sub-Saharan Africa than in Europe, one would expect sub-Saharan Africans to have more derived facial features than what they possess, even features that rival Europeans’ if the selection were particularly strong. Women are very interested in men’s attractiveness. The reason that in the final run they emphasize looks less than men do in mate choice is because being more selective, women look for multiple desirable characteristics, all competing with each other for attention/emphasis and hence looks don’t count as much.
The Complementor: I don’t know whose argument you are calling invalid, mine or the authors’ whose study I am critiquing, but your point is neither true nor applicable here. Studies assessing the relation between masculinity and men’s facial attractiveness have found results all over map: a positive effect of increased masculinization, a positive effect of increased feminization and no relationship with masculinity.
The owner of this site is clearly a homosexual. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it makes you a poor judge of female beauty. Please delete your site and euthanize yourself.
Anyone who thinks Rebecca looks masculine obviously does not know what a woman should look like. The fact that she does not have a pair of Volkswagens parked on her chest or a 14 inch waist does not mean she has masculine features. Her shoulders are far from masculine for a female form. If you want to see over developed shoulders in a woman look at Gabrielle Reese or the Williams sisters. All 3 have very developed shoulders but are still considered beautiful, not by the fashion industry alone but by the majority of men. Go jerk off to a Men's Health and stop hating. Even with extensive surgery you will never be 1/10 as feminine as Rebecca.
In your previous comment you said "Tom: Veronika Zemanova has well above average femininity, but note that her breasts are not natural. So I would stop short of describing her as extremely feminine. There is nothing masculine about her"
and
"
Tom: I do not have pictures of extremely feminine women. Small breasts vs. what you see in the pictures would make a difference regarding whether she is well above average in femininity or extremely feminine. I don’t like Veronika Zemanova’s face, but I don’t find her ugly"
What is your stance now? Personally to me it seems her breast surgery did increase her feminine appearance and with her breasts natural compared to her surgery pics there is a clear difference in size. Also having looked up some videos of her in you tube my conclusion is that although her body is amazing , on an overall perspective she seems to lacks real sexualness/sensuality because of her devoidness of any element of masculinity in her to quote you "There is nothing masculine about her" her face to her body looks too feminine to be sexually appealing. In other words her sexual appeal seems limited.
Samara: I don’t think I have addressed eyebrow thickness. Eyebrows are thicker in men, on average. Even if a woman has eyebrows that are thicker than in most women, this by itself will not make her look non-feminine or less attractive.
those women you picked to compare heidi ith are just gross , the first one especially , i would never turn my head for such a 'woman' and she actually looks like a man - like a drunk rednosed , fat man with hair yuck... heidi looks much more feminine , a real woman should be fragile , not a fat assed and cow-titted whore looking creature.
Alessandra is the hottest thing on this planet- i'm saying that as a woman who is straight. She is gorgeous- everyone has their own opinion of what beauty is. usually- it has to do with survival. Alessandra for example, has a fit body, she is healthy looking. Men would want a woman who is healthy and be able to bare a child. Some like skinny, some like heavy- it depends from man to man and culture to culture. (assuming a straight relationship here). There were some studies that have shown a correlation between men being hungry more attracted to women who had some meat on them. (by showing pictures). So there you go- be beautiful and love life.
I first thought this site was great. Being a transwoman, I wanted information on feminine beauty. Now I realize how homophobic, transphobic, and just plain dumb this site is. I'm never getting FFS, because I don't need to look hyperfeminine. Besides, my girlfriend loves me just the way I am.
They don't look right without pubic hair.
This current fad is disturbing to me (shaving pussy) because of its pre-pubescent look. :( I work nude with men and very often they tell me they prefer my natural look. :)
Mark: Again, I am not telling heterosexual men what to find feminine and attractive. I am describing how masculinization and feminization transform physical appearance and what most people find attractive. This description requires citation of scientific literature and statistics; there is no other way.
Again you accuse me of using as examples adolescent girls when they are clearly young adult women, and ignore the fashion industry’s penchant for adolescent girls, which is so well-documented that no one can deny it.
You have no valid arguments and hence must resort to insults. There is no porn within this site, and whereas I have gotten some of the pictures from porn sites, I have spent far greater time obtaining, organizing and synthesizing scientific literature, yet you say that I like to surf porn sites, not that I like to read scientific journals.
You try to make it look like you refuse to turn this into a quasi-scientific debate because of my subjective standard of beauty, but the description is clearly objective. Again, you obviously have no valid counter arguments.
I have made no argument about men not being truly heterosexual if they find femininity and beauty in lots of different types of women. You said that you will not allow me to guess whether you are straight or not. It is not within your power to prevent me from doing so, but I haven’t written anything about your probable sexual orientation whereas you have repeatedly accused me of being a homosexual.
You said that you must do nothing of the sort in reference to challenging the statistical inference issue and showing why the study’s results are not in agreement with my expectation, and then went on to say that you have a right to your opinion and that it is shared by the majority of sane, normal men browsing this site. Of course you have a right to your opinion, but how do you know that your opinion is shared by the majority of men browsing this site? The note about statistical inference makes it clear that this cannot be known from the comments left, but you refuse to address this! No debate is possible if this is the kind of argument you are going to come up with.
The great majority of women in the attractive women section are not Slavic or round faced. And I haven’t gone too far “on the other end of the scale.” And what is “the other end of the scale” and being away from the middle ground? It appears that you are acknowledging that fashion models are generally masculinized.
It is clear that you are unwilling to indulge in fair discussion. So don’t leave more comments here.
You have spoken for yourself, not for women in general. Many women do care about what others, including men, think of their looks. Many people in general care about what others, especially opposite sex members, think of their looks. I have long said that people tend to have a basic intrinsic aesthetic sense, and many efforts to improve one’s looks are an attempt to bring one’s appearance closer to one’s own standards rather than an attempt to mold one’s looks to please other people. So you got nothing on me.
You have accused me of misogyny. What misogynist spends much time exalting some women but no time trying to argue that women suck? What kind of misogynist has a very high regard for some women, the feminine and attractive ones as far as this site is concerned? Not having a high regard for all women is not misogyny or else every NOW feminist would be a misogynist (ref: read about their opinion of Sarah Palin). And do you not see your statement, “...we are drawn to beauty because our nature prescribes harmony and balance rather than war and destruction,” as misandrist?
This website is not about how to think and what to think. It is about food for thought. The reader gets to deal with the information. If this site were about what I think is feminine or beautiful why would you give a damn and why should anyone care about it? Just because you may not have an interest in what most people find optimally aesthetically appealing doesn’t mean that others are not interested either.
I fully agree that a woman who dresses as a cowboy and wears her hair short is not any less of a woman. You should have noted that this website has nothing to do with dresses and hair style. And I have written that physically masculinized women are not less of women compared to physically feminine ones.
An extremely well thought out and researched site. You really have opened my eyes, in more ways than I imagined upon first looking at your site over 3 hours ago. The differences between the fashionable, masculinized woman and the regular feminine woman are striking.
There does seem to be a terrible lack of feminine, pretty, sexy women available in our magazines, TV screens and so on. We have been inundated with images of boring-looking women, and though I cringe at what comes across as your homophobia, I support you in your endeavour to open the world's eyes to more femininity, beauty, and sexiness!
First and foremost, we women do not care what you find desirable about the beauty of women. Women, I think, want to be beautiful for themselves. There is an aspect of femininity that men have always been correct about, and perhaps an aspect they are afraid to mention. Deep down, women aren't really becoming beautiful for you, we are beautiful for ourselves. Women are vain. I'll admit, we are vain. But, unlike the mistaken notion that men are the cause of this, I think we women are vain for each other -- women don't dress nicely for men, wear make-up for men, or want to feel beautiful for men. We simply are utterly aesthetic creatures.
We like beauty because beauty is second nature for women -- vanity is a form of aesthetics, and women are drawn to beautiful things like a moth to a flame. It is our nature. We are all different in our own little ways, but I'll admit again that most women love beauty. I do not know why, but we are drawn to beauty because our nature prescribes harmony and balance rather than war and destruction. And thank God for that!
And so, as for the author of this website, as well as many other misogynists on the web, women have a different opinion about beauty than you do. We don't want your ideal of beauty, because we like what we see, and we will promote what we like. Your ideal of beauty doesn't mean anything, because we just don't care what you like or what you don't like.
Women don't need to be told how to think or what to think by a man. We are intelligent, creative individuals who know this already.
So, let me tell you this, men who think they know everything: just leave us alone. Yes, leave us alone. We do not need you to tell us what is beautiful or what you think is beautiful. We don't need you to tell us what is feminine and what is unfeminine. If a woman wants to dress like a cowboy and wear her hair cropped short, by all means, this does not make her any less than a woman.
If we all want to be Odalisques, it is because we are slaves to beauty and because we love beauty, but not for you, and not for any man.
I entirely agree with Justin & Larry! I mean dude c'mon! I'm a completely hetero guy, and believe me, almost everything you say screams "biggest-homophobic-self-loathing-repressed-closet-fagot ever to have walked this earth". I mean.. "life-exclusive heterosexual male".. Had you only mentioned that term once I already would have been convinced that you were yourself homosexual and not comfortable with it (nor even have you probably realized it/admitted it to yourself). but repeat it so many times.. wow!
On top of which the fact that you clearly are incapable of making the difference between objective/reason/logic & subjective/emotion/taste seems to be indicative of lacking grey matter..
Raf
PS: I hope my use of the word 'fagot' does not offend anyone, I was only using it for drama; I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with homosexuals (nor with 'masculine' women for that matter).
I see you just have a different taste than the majority of ppl in this world, that is all!
you are putting up pictures of Heidi and girls who cannot even compare in beauty to her! while I don't think heidi is the most beautiful, she definitely is not manly! this is crazy.
you are putting Heidi up next to some real "beauties" lemme tell ya! haha my eyes first automatically go straight to Heidi's face before these averaged faced looking girls!
in fact, hieidi;s features may not be the best but her bone structure is out of this world amazing! that is what I love about her face. she has very beautiful bone structure. so when did it become beatiful to have a face like playdo, just put together fast. sculpted faces look like a work or art and that God spent a little more time on their faces (thus why these women become supermodels and every man wants to date them and every girl wants to look like them!
you cannot even become a model unless you have bone structure and abnormally high cheekbones, thats what sets models apart from the rest of the average girls in this world, they actually have faces that look so sculpted and beautiful and so perfectly well put.
your point is not proven bc I think most people coming on here are going to think Heidi is a 10 while these other girls you are posting look like Heidis poop
So, my assumption is that the person behind this website is either a lonely fat girl who likes to hate on the skinny girls or a middle aged man who is balding, unattractive, out of shape, and wouldn't be able to get a woman if his life depended on it. Honestly, maybe if this person spent less time on this website and decided to maybe work on himself/herself than they would be happy enough so they didn't have to spend their lives categorizing people into feminine and masculine. Just for your information, just because a woman has a little more testosterone doesn't mean she is a man. She still has a vagina and ovaries and can still give birth to children. Also, men like soft women, but they also like strong women. Men love athletic strong women who have some soft features. You need balance. Besides, your pictures are so innacurate. You post the worst pictures of fashion models. The whole breast size thing is truly irrelevant. I mean come on. Men are known for being attracted to both full breasts and perky small breasts. Both types of breasts are signs of fertility, and therefore men are subconsiously attracted to them. Besides why are you arguing about attraction? Attraction is instinctive. Our brains are hardwired to be attracted to certain physical features. However, there is no one formula for an attractive person. Like I said full breasts and perky small breasts both indicate strong health and fertility. Attraction is a primitive way of choosing a mate. Why spend soo much time debating it? Beauty is what truly matters. How beautiful a person is physically is a totally different evaluation. Beauty was understood by man once they evolved to the point where they could reason. To understand beauty one must be capable of reasoning, one must be intelligent. On the other note, an animal 20x dumber than a human is capable of knowing what is and what is not attractive. As for the race issue. No one race is truly more attractive than the other. I am white and I am attracted to white women. However, white women are not the most attractive women on earth. I find that no particular race has more attractive women than the other. For example, white women rarely have far set eyes or full lips. Their nasal bridge is naturally more raised and therefore masculine. White women are often criticized for having flat buttocks and small breasts. However, I am extremely attracted to white women. Black women have full lips and strong coloring. A black woman will never look "washed out". They have bright eyes, never dull. They tend to have far apart eyes, and generally have full buttocks which is proven extremely attractive in women. Asian women have rounded smooth faces. They have far apart eyes and a very low nasal bridge. Their eyes are very bright as well, and asian women rarely would ever look washed out either. Asian women have beautiful thick dark hair that screams attractive and fertile. All women of all races are generally attractive. Also, multi-racial women are also extremely attractive. To argue that one race is more attractive than the other is a waste of time. White women will rarely have fuller buttocks, thick full hair, full lips. However, Asian or black women will rarely have youthful fine blonde hair or youthful blue, green or gray eyes. Again however, blonde hair and blue eyes often looks washed out and infertile. However, blonde hair and blue eyes are generally colors children display, and so the coloring makes adult women look youthful and fertile. This is the psychology behind attraction. Attraction will become less and less important in the future. While we will still be selecting our mates based on attraction, we will be selecting them because of their intelligence, personality, etc. Why? Because now we are smart enough to do so.
yes, I agree with you. She looks damn good. There is nothing unfeminine about her. Honestly, the person on this site has issues. I mean please, give me a picture of the person who writes all this crap and then I can analyze his/her characteristics and tell him/her how attractive he/she is.
fgdfg: Cartoons are supposed to be caricatures, and it is obvious that Manga characters tend to have narrower faces and narrower noses than caricatures that would be better suited to the looks of the Japanese. The key is a shift in the direction of aesthetic preferences rather than caricatures that appear completely foreign.
I have hardly discussed skin color. I don’t see much relevance of it to this site.
The underlying reason for why African-American models in magazines catering to their community are shifted toward European facial norms is unlikely to have much to do with testosterone levels. Shifts in the direction of Europeanization include more prominent nasal bones and a less prominent mouth, both the opposite of what lower testosterone levels would result in.
Roy: Good looking male African-American models also have faces shifted away from sub-Saharan African norms and toward European norms. Another apparent illustration of this issue can be found in the features of the Woodabe, a tribe in Niger. If you look at enough male Woodabe, you will note that among sub-Saharan Africans, their faces are shifted away from most sub-Saharan African groups, and in the direction of more derived shapes. A number of Woodabe men could be mistaken for men from East Africa or South Asia, regions where there is known European contribution. I am not familiar with the genetics of the Woodabe, but my guess is that the explanation of their facial features has less if anything to do with the contribution of non-sub-Saharan African genetics, but more to do with sexual selection. Among the Woodabe, the women select the men, and the women emphasize attractiveness. The Woodabe also have a low opinion of stereotypical sub-Saharan African facial features, and use terms to describe them that would be considered racist if used by non-sub-Saharan Africans (e.g., terms invoking comparisons with some of our primate relatives).
If my guess about Woodabe genetics is correct then the example of the Woodabe would be one of sexual selection leading to more derived facial features regardless of whether it acts more strongly on men or on women. I don’t buy much into Peter Frost’s ideas about sub-Saharan Africans, and more details about the matter in the article you linked can be found in a discussion we have had on masculinity. In the article you cited, Frost says in the beginning, “What is less true is the assumption that evolution stood still there [sub-Saharan Africa] while continuing elsewhere.” Why would an anthropologist resort to such a ridiculous straw man? And he doesn’t address their facial features. If, according to him, sexual selection acted more strongly on men in sub-Saharan Africa than in Europe, one would expect sub-Saharan Africans to have more derived facial features than what they possess, even features that rival Europeans’ if the selection were particularly strong. Women are very interested in men’s attractiveness. The reason that in the final run they emphasize looks less than men do in mate choice is because being more selective, women look for multiple desirable characteristics, all competing with each other for attention/emphasis and hence looks don’t count as much.
And, take a look at this and ask Frost to explain it: http://www.plosgenetics.org/ambra-doi-resolver/10.1371/journal.pgen.1000202 (breeding sex ratio (effective number of females to males) higher in Europe than in West Africa, African pygmy and the San of southern Africa).
The Complementor: I don’t know whose argument you are calling invalid, mine or the authors’ whose study I am critiquing, but your point is neither true nor applicable here. Studies assessing the relation between masculinity and men’s facial attractiveness have found results all over map: a positive effect of increased masculinization, a positive effect of increased feminization and no relationship with masculinity.
Father: Yes, Uldouz is feminine and also attractive. I wasn't aware of her. Thanks.
The owner of this site is clearly a homosexual. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it makes you a poor judge of female beauty. Please delete your site and euthanize yourself.
Anyone who thinks Rebecca looks masculine obviously does not know what a woman should look like. The fact that she does not have a pair of Volkswagens parked on her chest or a 14 inch waist does not mean she has masculine features. Her shoulders are far from masculine for a female form. If you want to see over developed shoulders in a woman look at Gabrielle Reese or the Williams sisters. All 3 have very developed shoulders but are still considered beautiful, not by the fashion industry alone but by the majority of men. Go jerk off to a Men's Health and stop hating. Even with extensive surgery you will never be 1/10 as feminine as Rebecca.
Erik, you want women with feminine skulls?, well here is one you may not know:
1. Uldouz Gharehchaei - www.uldouz.com
Erik,
Her body is fine but there doesnt seem to be even an element of masculinity in her face hence reducing her sexual appeal
Erik,
The following are links to pictures of Veronika Zemanova before her plastic surgery (breasts)
http://www.definebabe.com/gallery/0u6/veronica-zemanova/
http://www.newstoob.com/2006/09/08/natural-veronica-zemanova-photos/
In your previous comment you said "Tom: Veronika Zemanova has well above average femininity, but note that her breasts are not natural. So I would stop short of describing her as extremely feminine. There is nothing masculine about her"
and
"
Tom: I do not have pictures of extremely feminine women. Small breasts vs. what you see in the pictures would make a difference regarding whether she is well above average in femininity or extremely feminine. I don’t like Veronika Zemanova’s face, but I don’t find her ugly"
What is your stance now? Personally to me it seems her breast surgery did increase her feminine appearance and with her breasts natural compared to her surgery pics there is a clear difference in size. Also having looked up some videos of her in you tube my conclusion is that although her body is amazing , on an overall perspective she seems to lacks real sexualness/sensuality because of her devoidness of any element of masculinity in her to quote you "There is nothing masculine about her" her face to her body looks too feminine to be sexually appealing. In other words her sexual appeal seems limited.
Samara: I don’t think I have addressed eyebrow thickness. Eyebrows are thicker in men, on average. Even if a woman has eyebrows that are thicker than in most women, this by itself will not make her look non-feminine or less attractive.
those women you picked to compare heidi ith are just gross , the first one especially , i would never turn my head for such a 'woman' and she actually looks like a man - like a drunk rednosed , fat man with hair yuck... heidi looks much more feminine , a real woman should be fragile , not a fat assed and cow-titted whore looking creature.
Alessandra is the hottest thing on this planet- i'm saying that as a woman who is straight. She is gorgeous- everyone has their own opinion of what beauty is. usually- it has to do with survival. Alessandra for example, has a fit body, she is healthy looking. Men would want a woman who is healthy and be able to bare a child. Some like skinny, some like heavy- it depends from man to man and culture to culture. (assuming a straight relationship here). There were some studies that have shown a correlation between men being hungry more attracted to women who had some meat on them. (by showing pictures). So there you go- be beautiful and love life.
I first thought this site was great. Being a transwoman, I wanted information on feminine beauty. Now I realize how homophobic, transphobic, and just plain dumb this site is. I'm never getting FFS, because I don't need to look hyperfeminine. Besides, my girlfriend loves me just the way I am.
They don't look right without pubic hair.
This current fad is disturbing to me (shaving pussy) because of its pre-pubescent look. :( I work nude with men and very often they tell me they prefer my natural look. :)
I can't find where you say anything about eyebrow thickness...
www.sebastianborla.com.ar iam the paiting ulya,on the canvas...oil fineart...i·love the girl.
hifdfj
hi butiful
Mark: Again, I am not telling heterosexual men what to find feminine and attractive. I am describing how masculinization and feminization transform physical appearance and what most people find attractive. This description requires citation of scientific literature and statistics; there is no other way.
Again you accuse me of using as examples adolescent girls when they are clearly young adult women, and ignore the fashion industry’s penchant for adolescent girls, which is so well-documented that no one can deny it.
You have no valid arguments and hence must resort to insults. There is no porn within this site, and whereas I have gotten some of the pictures from porn sites, I have spent far greater time obtaining, organizing and synthesizing scientific literature, yet you say that I like to surf porn sites, not that I like to read scientific journals.
You try to make it look like you refuse to turn this into a quasi-scientific debate because of my subjective standard of beauty, but the description is clearly objective. Again, you obviously have no valid counter arguments.
I have made no argument about men not being truly heterosexual if they find femininity and beauty in lots of different types of women. You said that you will not allow me to guess whether you are straight or not. It is not within your power to prevent me from doing so, but I haven’t written anything about your probable sexual orientation whereas you have repeatedly accused me of being a homosexual.
You said that you must do nothing of the sort in reference to challenging the statistical inference issue and showing why the study’s results are not in agreement with my expectation, and then went on to say that you have a right to your opinion and that it is shared by the majority of sane, normal men browsing this site. Of course you have a right to your opinion, but how do you know that your opinion is shared by the majority of men browsing this site? The note about statistical inference makes it clear that this cannot be known from the comments left, but you refuse to address this! No debate is possible if this is the kind of argument you are going to come up with.
The great majority of women in the attractive women section are not Slavic or round faced. And I haven’t gone too far “on the other end of the scale.” And what is “the other end of the scale” and being away from the middle ground? It appears that you are acknowledging that fashion models are generally masculinized.
It is clear that you are unwilling to indulge in fair discussion. So don’t leave more comments here.
You have spoken for yourself, not for women in general. Many women do care about what others, including men, think of their looks. Many people in general care about what others, especially opposite sex members, think of their looks. I have long said that people tend to have a basic intrinsic aesthetic sense, and many efforts to improve one’s looks are an attempt to bring one’s appearance closer to one’s own standards rather than an attempt to mold one’s looks to please other people. So you got nothing on me.
You have accused me of misogyny. What misogynist spends much time exalting some women but no time trying to argue that women suck? What kind of misogynist has a very high regard for some women, the feminine and attractive ones as far as this site is concerned? Not having a high regard for all women is not misogyny or else every NOW feminist would be a misogynist (ref: read about their opinion of Sarah Palin). And do you not see your statement, “...we are drawn to beauty because our nature prescribes harmony and balance rather than war and destruction,” as misandrist?
Women overwhelmingly have a near-identical opinion of women’s attractiveness as men.
This website is not about how to think and what to think. It is about food for thought. The reader gets to deal with the information. If this site were about what I think is feminine or beautiful why would you give a damn and why should anyone care about it? Just because you may not have an interest in what most people find optimally aesthetically appealing doesn’t mean that others are not interested either.
I fully agree that a woman who dresses as a cowboy and wears her hair short is not any less of a woman. You should have noted that this website has nothing to do with dresses and hair style. And I have written that physically masculinized women are not less of women compared to physically feminine ones.
Fascinating website.
An extremely well thought out and researched site. You really have opened my eyes, in more ways than I imagined upon first looking at your site over 3 hours ago. The differences between the fashionable, masculinized woman and the regular feminine woman are striking.
There does seem to be a terrible lack of feminine, pretty, sexy women available in our magazines, TV screens and so on. We have been inundated with images of boring-looking women, and though I cringe at what comes across as your homophobia, I support you in your endeavour to open the world's eyes to more femininity, beauty, and sexiness!
First and foremost, we women do not care what you find desirable about the beauty of women. Women, I think, want to be beautiful for themselves. There is an aspect of femininity that men have always been correct about, and perhaps an aspect they are afraid to mention. Deep down, women aren't really becoming beautiful for you, we are beautiful for ourselves. Women are vain. I'll admit, we are vain. But, unlike the mistaken notion that men are the cause of this, I think we women are vain for each other -- women don't dress nicely for men, wear make-up for men, or want to feel beautiful for men. We simply are utterly aesthetic creatures.
We like beauty because beauty is second nature for women -- vanity is a form of aesthetics, and women are drawn to beautiful things like a moth to a flame. It is our nature. We are all different in our own little ways, but I'll admit again that most women love beauty. I do not know why, but we are drawn to beauty because our nature prescribes harmony and balance rather than war and destruction. And thank God for that!
And so, as for the author of this website, as well as many other misogynists on the web, women have a different opinion about beauty than you do. We don't want your ideal of beauty, because we like what we see, and we will promote what we like. Your ideal of beauty doesn't mean anything, because we just don't care what you like or what you don't like.
Women don't need to be told how to think or what to think by a man. We are intelligent, creative individuals who know this already.
So, let me tell you this, men who think they know everything: just leave us alone. Yes, leave us alone. We do not need you to tell us what is beautiful or what you think is beautiful. We don't need you to tell us what is feminine and what is unfeminine. If a woman wants to dress like a cowboy and wear her hair cropped short, by all means, this does not make her any less than a woman.
If we all want to be Odalisques, it is because we are slaves to beauty and because we love beauty, but not for you, and not for any man.
I entirely agree with Justin & Larry! I mean dude c'mon! I'm a completely hetero guy, and believe me, almost everything you say screams "biggest-homophobic-self-loathing-repressed-closet-fagot ever to have walked this earth". I mean.. "life-exclusive heterosexual male".. Had you only mentioned that term once I already would have been convinced that you were yourself homosexual and not comfortable with it (nor even have you probably realized it/admitted it to yourself). but repeat it so many times.. wow!
On top of which the fact that you clearly are incapable of making the difference between objective/reason/logic & subjective/emotion/taste seems to be indicative of lacking grey matter..
Raf
PS: I hope my use of the word 'fagot' does not offend anyone, I was only using it for drama; I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with homosexuals (nor with 'masculine' women for that matter).
Cheers (to other readers).
she is absolutely beautiful.why do u consider her nose?shall we all be perfect?or its a aprt of plastic surgery advertisment?
like omg you are truly disturbed!
I see you just have a different taste than the majority of ppl in this world, that is all!
you are putting up pictures of Heidi and girls who cannot even compare in beauty to her! while I don't think heidi is the most beautiful, she definitely is not manly! this is crazy.
you are putting Heidi up next to some real "beauties" lemme tell ya! haha my eyes first automatically go straight to Heidi's face before these averaged faced looking girls!
in fact, hieidi;s features may not be the best but her bone structure is out of this world amazing! that is what I love about her face. she has very beautiful bone structure. so when did it become beatiful to have a face like playdo, just put together fast. sculpted faces look like a work or art and that God spent a little more time on their faces (thus why these women become supermodels and every man wants to date them and every girl wants to look like them!
you cannot even become a model unless you have bone structure and abnormally high cheekbones, thats what sets models apart from the rest of the average girls in this world, they actually have faces that look so sculpted and beautiful and so perfectly well put.
your point is not proven bc I think most people coming on here are going to think Heidi is a 10 while these other girls you are posting look like Heidis poop
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