I only meant that there should be a poll over lingerie models or women who look better in lingerie. Just to see what the general public REALLY prefers....For example, maybe seeing women with VS looks in the same lingerie as a feminine woman. I just think that seeing the two side by side gives a more true visual. I am not saying whether one is better than the other...just to see what "feminine" means to the general public. (out of curiousity)
I was just a little disturbed about Marketa...like I said, sincerely, I did look like her when I was twelve, and it disgusts me to see her so exposed.
I saw the videos...I thought it gave great speculation.
I am glad that you agree that there is variation among nude models and Victoria’s Secret models. Laetitia Casta was once a VS Model and I always admired her natural beauty...although she may have some masculine traits, I am able to overlook them.
Even though one would think that VS WOULD have very feminine, beautiful women as models, I am very glad that they don't. I do however think that more variation in the model industry would be fabulous. Crystal Renn for example is a very beautiful, full-figured woman. Twiggy back in the 60s?...she was a very thin olive-oyl looking girl but she's striking to look at.
Why do they have a large number of masculinized women?
I mean, there has to be a reason why people like VS Models otherwise, they wouldn't be so popular. If we were to look at the tags of bras at dillards, JC Penney or wherever, you'll find plenty of the more feminine looking women modeling them.
Maybe because people in general for whatever reasons are becoming more attracted to it...like...
Women get breast implants, nose jobs, buttocks done, remove ribs, yatta yatta but they also get chin implants, cheekbone implants, and others that would seem to be more of a masculine thing, right? So maybe we like the feminine stuff, yet we'd like to have stronger appearances in other places.
Its not only VS that like masculinized women...it is also other popular lingerie stores like Fredericks.
My idea of comparing them to men was only a thought. When I watch runways shows, it is very obvious which ones are women and men, so you are right about that.
I was just saying that tall women can be feminine.
I wasn't trying to make a point, just my opinions and observations.
So I thought about what "kind of men these women" are mostly attracting and I think that all those men are HOT! lol.
I think that all shapes of women can be sexy.
Anyways, I think that you need to start a lingerie store with feminine women ...maybe you are on to something here.
I just know that female self-esteem is such a problem right now. I know women want to look taller, thinner, symmetrical, but! I also see a problem with feminine women too as they are on the opposite end of the female body spectrum. Women will only continue to get cosmetic surgery to try to achieve an hourglass figure. I think DOVE has got it right...
Danielle, you are either a really obese self-hating fattie or a really masculine woman with serious PMS issue, such hostility, jeez, you need to get laid or something. And thank you for your concern, I'm perfectly viewing these nudes. They're not to my taste, but at least most of them look like real women, unlike these high fashion models who haven't gone through puberty, that only masculine women or gay men would find them attractive.
My descriptions of your soft porn models are no less neutral than your description of high fashion models. Why don't you try describing some random woman that you meet as a male-to-female transsexual and see how well she takes it. Many Male-to-female transsexuals easily pass for women so they aren't a good example to use if you want to insult high fashion girls. Have you ever watched trashy daytime talk shows? Many people are easily fooled into thinking that transsexuals are biological females, even their sexual partners don't know.
The words I use to describe your porn girls are just as insulting and just as descriptive as the words you use to describe VS models. The term "trailer trash" is often used to describe low class, trashy Caucasian people. All of your soft porn girls fit this description and many of them are unattractive and slovenly so "whore", "fugbeast" and "ogre" are fitting descriptions for them.
Your site is useless in terms of trying to achieve your goals. You fail to convince people who think VS girls are pretty that they are masculine and unacceptable lingerie models. People who always thought VS girls were ugly are the ones who agree with you so they didn't need convincing anyways. Your site won't effect a change in the fashion industry or in the minds of those who like these VS models. Your site is potentially harmful and can cause women with low self esteem to feel even worse about themselves. Several people have already made the point that you are no different from the gay designers that you criticize. You push your rigid aesthetic onto others and unlike the gay designers you have no subtlety. You will say outright that a woman is unattractive and masculine.
Several women have emailed their pictures to you and asked you to judge their pictures on the masculine-feminine scale. There are women who are insecure enough to email their pictures to strangers so that their faces and bodies can be scrutinized and you see no problem with this. Striving to be "feminine" isn't as bad as striving to be thin although there is no way to change a "masculine" bone structure without major surgery. Your site is also potentially harmful to the gay community. You characterize their sexuality as deviant and abhorrent and you have compared them with pedophiles. You also characterize gay designers as pederasts, which is completely abusive and slanderous. Any crazy homophobe, apart from you, may use this false information as a weapon against gay people in general. You are irresponsible and delusional.
These clothes would look very out of place at most social gatherings but they are haute couture clothes. It is likely that they weren't designed with your average cocktail party in mind. You need to rethink your definition of haute couture. BTW, Daria is not a friggin "sexy model" that term applies better to your nasty soft porn stars.
PS. I don't ever recall describing myself as masculine. I did say once that if being a white trash whore makes someone feminine then I am proudly masculine. I don't consider myself masculine but I have a different definition of feminine than you do.
Eric, are you sure that BBB is a female? Judging from his/her insults I think BBB is a pimply, adolescent male. He/she calls me a fattie, which is a staple in the adolescent male insult arsenal. Then he/she compares me to a cartoon character (WTF). He/she obviously thought these insults were wounding enough to make me cry (lol). I can picture the little, pale, scrawny twerp giggling in his dark, messy room.
If I am right and BBB is really an adolescent boy then you should encourage him to leave this site immediately. The vulgar pictures of your grotesque nude women could scar him for life. He could grow up to be a hairstylist who dates masculine models, or even worse, he could become a gay designer (TEH HORROR!!). Anyways, I won't fight with BBB anymore because he/she is clearly a retard.
I think you are mistaking the term, high fashion for haute couture. Couture is an overused and erroneous description for ready-to-wear but high fashion is not. You are also using a really bizarre definition of haute couture that I have never heard before. Many of the haute couture pieces that you see on the runways would be totally unsuitable for any type of social gathering other than a costume party. Some couture designs would be just as inappropriate for a charity ball as Daria's SWIMSUIT would be. You are confused about the definition of high fashion, which is not even a correct translation of the French term, haute couture.
I agree that Daria does not look like a normal, average girl but that has always been one of my defenses of high fashion models. They are not average; they are just as unique and exclusive as the clothes and products that they advertise. Your "feminine" models have completely average looks with the exception of their waist to hip ratios.
If at a height of 5"3 and measurments of 36-27-36 what kind of body type is this, would you say it is hourglass figure as there is a 9inch difference between hips and bust, if not then what kind of physique would you descrive it as?
Danielle: I have never described high-fashion models as “hermaphrodites” or “trannies.” I have used the expressions male-to-female transsexual and male transvestite, and for some fashion models only. These are neutral terms and are needed for descriptive purposes. At worst, I have used “drag queen” twice and there have been a handful of instances of sarcasm on my part as in putting some expressions -- e.g., sexy model -- in quotes to convey the irony (most of these examples are on the “Sexy fashion models?” page).
On the other hand, your comments on the feminine women shown are not descriptive; they are gross/hateful insults: “trailer trash whore,” “fugbeast,” “ogre,” etc.
If this were a useless site, you would not be a regular here. I don’t have the power to change the aesthetic preferences of homosexual designers, and I am pleased you have acknowledged its role after all, but I believe that I can undermine the gay influence behind the selection of beauty pageant contestants and lingerie models. You never know, if most people wake up to why high-fashion models are typically very thin, ultra-thin models may get banned in more nations (Italy was a big one since Milan is one of the fashion capitals of the world), and boy will the homosexuals be pleased if this happens! I personally don’t favor legislation to ban ultra-thin models since some women are naturally thin and should not be denied an opportunity to model if that is what the homosexuals want, but at least legislation can force the homosexuals to prove that their thin models are naturally skinny and reasonably healthy.
Elizabeth: Yes, Yamila's waist-hip proportions look more feminine than those of most others in the group photo, but I think she has breast implants. It is her face that mainly spoils it for those who prefer feminine beauty.
Ashley: Dasha doesn’t appear to be on the thicker side of optimum to me, especially for lingerie modeling. If you prefer slimmer women, I can post videos of slim women that are clearly much more feminine than Alessandra, but this will have to be on a new page since I have the code for posting videos disabled in the comments section.
Slimness is not a problem in Western societies, but the homosexual designers go beyond slim. Many of their models are too thin for most people.
Men tend to have relatively longer arms and a narrower face shape compared to women, but this doesn’t make long arms or narrow faces by themselves masculine. Just contrast the narrow face of Jennifer Love Hewitt with Alessandra’s. Jennifer has the face of a woman but Alessandra doesn’t. I have featured plenty of narrow-faced women in the attractive women section. Just take a look.
I don’t believe Alessandra has an eating disorder. She appears to be naturally thin.
Elizabeth: I haven't argued that "some men’s preference for masculinized women is code for an unexpressed homosexual inclination." In Hefner's case, you need to look at a number of issues.
The gay porn argument is weak. Jill Ann Spaulding could be easily lying just as Hefner could be, too, but Hefner has reported experimenting with bisexuality. What kind of heterosexual man voluntarily indulges in homosexual behavior?
I can cite evidence that lifetime-exclusive heterosexuals are different, with respect to sexual orientation, from self-identified heterosexuals that have indulged in homosexual behavior or experienced same-sex attraction at some point of their lives.
Just consider the stature of Playboy magazine: the most high profile of its kind, it gets women to pose nude who would not model nude elsewhere, and it pays its centerfolds an exorbitant amount compared to the vast majority of its competitors. What then explains the kind of women shown above? A nonheterosexual component to the attractions of the Editor-in-chief is strongly suspected, and Hefner has admitted to voluntarily indulging in homosexual behavior, confirming the suspicion.
BBB: I don’t think Danielle is overweight or obese, but she has described herself as masculine elsewhere, and is obviously not pleased with this site.
Danielle: Ready to wear clothing by Dior is obviously much higher class than what you would see at Walmart, but it isn’t high fashion. You are referring to the colloquial usage of high fashion, which is a relaxed/incorrect definition, and includes the more expensive ready to wear clothing. Don’t cite wikipedia. You or any other misinformed/malicious individual could have edited the entry you want me to read.
I never said that Daria is wearing a bizarre evening dress. I said that she is not wearing something appropriate for a general social gathering, i.e., not doing high-fashion modeling in the video. I agree that Daria looks female, but not feminine or even normal.
Mary: Estrogen therapy would require a doctor's prescription, and would only be recommended for women with below average estrogen levels since there are some risks such as increased odds of cancers of the reproductive system and mood disturbances. There are many plant sources that provide estrogenic substances (phytoestrogens) that are capable of having a biological effect, though there are questions such as what works and what are the risks. I will have to look up the literature and will post something on it at some point.
Tom: If someone asks me to rate a non-model, a non-beauty-pageant-contestant or a not-well-known person, I usually look up a few pictures of the woman and state my judgment. I use "appears to be..." because I have not looked up the woman's pictures extensively.
You got the meaning of normal with respect to masculinity-femininity right.
Ashley: You should be able to focus on their face and physique shape notwithstanding the dresses/hairstyles. Next time I will post a better video of fashion models.
Lena's appeal is because of her face and body (even though she hardly has breasts). Make-up is not much of an issue (the models have it on, too) and neither are her clothes special.
Danielle: Of course Lena is too fat to be a high-fashion model (do you really need to point this out to me?) apart from being too feminine. She looks a lot better than most women who work at Wendy's or similar restaurants. If she is not so unique looking, then one could go for a more unique look by selecting a woman with larger breasts and slightly less muscularity, but you know why the designers go for the unique look you see in the video.
Elizabeth: C'mon, the woman doesn't look anything like a skank. Concern yourself with appearance, not behavior because behavior is not being addressed. If you know of video clips of the others on the net, point out their location and I will see if they are suitable for posting.
lol, a self-hating fattie, you must be wolfing down that fat doughnut while you were typing with tears running down your face, just like eric cartman, lol.
BBB, you're a pathetic fool. I am a fattie now? Why would a fattie defend this skinny ass model to Eric? I never pretended to be a fashion insider so there is nothing pretentious about pointing out some of foolish things he believes about the fashion industry. I am not trying to explain rocket science. Most fashion models are clearly female some might look like men but the same can be said about any sizeable group of women. If you think that the ogres in Eric's "attractive" women section are suitable replacements for girls like Daria then you are just as delusional and disgusting as Eric. Now fall back you crackhead douche.
I've always thought that many runaway models look like really tall prepubescent boys, and many anti-anorexia and anti-fake-dieting proponents have agreed with this. Now I suppose to you and your ilk, all of them are Erik's cronies, right? And stop being so goddamn pretentious about haute coutre and shit, you can't change the fact that nowawdays a lot of these models look like transsexuals, you dumbfuck. You are probably just some very pretentious fat chick who wants to like those models lol.
Eric, once again you have offered no real proof to support your delusions. You contend that these models are dating closet queers or men who have been attracted to or sexually interacted with other males in their youth. Once again, you have absolutely no proof of this. Your "proof" consists of the fact that Heidi Klum's former boyfriend is a hairstylist, which is too freaking simplistic and retarded to debate seriously. You also say that Leo Dicaprio and Tom Brady have both dated "masculinized" women which proves absolutely nothing other than that they may have a preference for these looks in women. When you come up with REAL proof that men who like these women are fags or have been faggish in their pasts then you have some proof. Right now you are letting your superiority complex and your deluded arrogance blind you.
Judging from the post above me, it seems that you have managed to acquire some pathetic internet cronies Eric. Please inform your sad, little minion that I was pointing out your ignorance of the high fashion industry which is perfectly relevant to this discussion and this website. Oh I almost forgot! Tell your servitor that Daria looks like a tall emaciated woman. She is obviously female in every picture I have seen of her. She probably looks better on her worst day than both of you look on your best day.
Ruth: Eva Longoria doesn’t have a feminine face and hence her face and body are not at odds with each other.
Tom: If you look at Zuzana’s face, it is on the narrow side and her gonial region (lower-back region of lower jaw) is powerfully developed (not clear in the pictures shown above), which is not consistent with an extremely feminine look.
Danielle: There are weirdos commenting here indeed, but they have been using names like Danielle and 8D, not Sionnach. The term hermaphrodite applies to humans with at least one ovary and at least one testis or an ovotestis, and there are some such people around. Sionnach did not say that high-fashion models are hermaphrodites, but is interested in finding out what proportion of them are not biologically female. Given the physical appearance of a number of high-fashion models, it is reasonable to wonder.
Sionnach: Hermaphrodites are rare among humans, and although most true hermaphrodites have the 46-XX constitution, it is very rare for them to give birth. I doubt that Heidi Klum is a hermaphrodite notwithstanding her looks. It is difficult to say what proportion of high-fashion models passed off as female is not female. I would guess that the great majority is female.
I will describe in brief the study of J. Richard Udry with respect to gender. Udry measured second trimester amniotic fluid testosterone levels in pregnant women (an approximation of fetal testosterone exposure) and later measured the testosterone levels of their adult daughters. He then had the daughters take a comprehensive questionnaire pertaining to behaviors and interests, and subjected the data to principal components factor analysis, a statistical tool that explains the variation in a large dataset in terms of main underlying factors. He came up with the following four factors: importance of home, feminine interests, job status and masculinity-femininity. “Importance of home” covered issues such as being ever married, number of live births, sex role orientation on a 16-item scale of gender role attitudes, importance of career, importance of children, 14-item domestic division of labor scale for current or last relationship and a 6-item sex-typed activities scale for current or last relationship. “Feminine interests” covered issues such as importance of marriage; a 20-item vocational interests inventory; interest in baby care; and interest in feminine appearance as judged by demeanor, facial attractiveness, use of jewelry, and use of cosmetics. “Job status” covered issues such as proportion female in current or last job, proportion female in work unit on last job and score on the Featherman socioeconomic index of current or last occupation. “Masculinity-femininity” covered issues such as masculinity and femininity score on the Personality Research Form; 10-items each on the feminine and masculine scales of the Bem Sex Role Inventory; and percent masculine items describing self, selected from an adjective checklist.
Udry then derived a second-order factor based on the 4 primary factors, and this turned out to be a bipolar factor labeled “gendered adult behavior.” The correlations between this bipolar factor and the four primary factors were 0.78 for importance of home, 0.65 for feminine interests, 0.66 for job status and 0.56 for masculinity-femininity. The magnitude of correlations varies from 0 to 1; the closer to 1, the greater the correlation. As if this wouldn’t infuriate feminists enough, Udry found out that prenatal testosterone exposure plus adulthood testosterone levels in the daughters explained 16% of the variation in their “gendered adult behavior.” 16% may not sound much, but given the comprehensive questionnaires the daughters filled out, a huge number of factors are expected to affect the behaviors and interests involved. Hence, 16% is an impressive figure for a single factor, i.e., testosterone exposure. Before a feminist jumps to conclusions about the remaining variance in “gendered adult behavior” being explained by socialization, Udry found out that if maternal attempts to encourage femininity in their daughters were added to the testosterone-behavior model, only an additional 2% of the variance in “gendered adult behavior” of the daughters could be explained. Worse for the feminists, a closer examination revealed that maternal attempts to encourage femininity in their daughters made the feminine girls more feminine, but no matter how much mothers tried to encourage feminine behaviors in their behaviorally masculinized daughters, it had little effect on their masculine behaviors. Hence the apt title used by Udry, “Biological Limits of Gender Construction.” Udry managed to get his paper published in the American Sociological Review! Feminists were super pissed and their hysterical response is one reason why you should read the paper and the comments on it (comments in volume 66, issue 4 of the journal). The editor had to explain how the paper was given the green light for publication.
There are many studies like this that demolish the core theoretical underpinnings of women’s studies courses. All that is needed is for some people with sufficient academic background to describe these studies online, in one place, for the general public.
I'd bet the entire Trump Tower that 8D is also "either a really obese self-hating fattie or a really masculine woman with serious PMS issue." Haha.
I only meant that there should be a poll over lingerie models or women who look better in lingerie. Just to see what the general public REALLY prefers....For example, maybe seeing women with VS looks in the same lingerie as a feminine woman. I just think that seeing the two side by side gives a more true visual. I am not saying whether one is better than the other...just to see what "feminine" means to the general public. (out of curiousity)
I was just a little disturbed about Marketa...like I said, sincerely, I did look like her when I was twelve, and it disgusts me to see her so exposed.
I saw the videos...I thought it gave great speculation.
I am glad that you agree that there is variation among nude models and Victoria’s Secret models. Laetitia Casta was once a VS Model and I always admired her natural beauty...although she may have some masculine traits, I am able to overlook them.
Even though one would think that VS WOULD have very feminine, beautiful women as models, I am very glad that they don't. I do however think that more variation in the model industry would be fabulous. Crystal Renn for example is a very beautiful, full-figured woman. Twiggy back in the 60s?...she was a very thin olive-oyl looking girl but she's striking to look at.
Why do they have a large number of masculinized women?
I mean, there has to be a reason why people like VS Models otherwise, they wouldn't be so popular. If we were to look at the tags of bras at dillards, JC Penney or wherever, you'll find plenty of the more feminine looking women modeling them.
Maybe because people in general for whatever reasons are becoming more attracted to it...like...
Women get breast implants, nose jobs, buttocks done, remove ribs, yatta yatta but they also get chin implants, cheekbone implants, and others that would seem to be more of a masculine thing, right? So maybe we like the feminine stuff, yet we'd like to have stronger appearances in other places.
Its not only VS that like masculinized women...it is also other popular lingerie stores like Fredericks.
My idea of comparing them to men was only a thought. When I watch runways shows, it is very obvious which ones are women and men, so you are right about that.
I was just saying that tall women can be feminine.
I wasn't trying to make a point, just my opinions and observations.
So I thought about what "kind of men these women" are mostly attracting and I think that all those men are HOT! lol.
I think that all shapes of women can be sexy.
Anyways, I think that you need to start a lingerie store with feminine women ...maybe you are on to something here.
I just know that female self-esteem is such a problem right now. I know women want to look taller, thinner, symmetrical, but! I also see a problem with feminine women too as they are on the opposite end of the female body spectrum. Women will only continue to get cosmetic surgery to try to achieve an hourglass figure. I think DOVE has got it right...
http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/flat4.asp?id=6909
BBB: You're an ugly ho :( I bet that ur crying and stuff donuts down ur throat and hating on models cuz u fugly. :( i feel bad for your fugliness.
Abbie!! I love ya and keep up the good work.....stay beautiful babe!
Danielle, you are either a really obese self-hating fattie or a really masculine woman with serious PMS issue, such hostility, jeez, you need to get laid or something. And thank you for your concern, I'm perfectly viewing these nudes. They're not to my taste, but at least most of them look like real women, unlike these high fashion models who haven't gone through puberty, that only masculine women or gay men would find them attractive.
My descriptions of your soft porn models are no less neutral than your description of high fashion models. Why don't you try describing some random woman that you meet as a male-to-female transsexual and see how well she takes it. Many Male-to-female transsexuals easily pass for women so they aren't a good example to use if you want to insult high fashion girls. Have you ever watched trashy daytime talk shows? Many people are easily fooled into thinking that transsexuals are biological females, even their sexual partners don't know.
The words I use to describe your porn girls are just as insulting and just as descriptive as the words you use to describe VS models. The term "trailer trash" is often used to describe low class, trashy Caucasian people. All of your soft porn girls fit this description and many of them are unattractive and slovenly so "whore", "fugbeast" and "ogre" are fitting descriptions for them.
Your site is useless in terms of trying to achieve your goals. You fail to convince people who think VS girls are pretty that they are masculine and unacceptable lingerie models. People who always thought VS girls were ugly are the ones who agree with you so they didn't need convincing anyways. Your site won't effect a change in the fashion industry or in the minds of those who like these VS models. Your site is potentially harmful and can cause women with low self esteem to feel even worse about themselves. Several people have already made the point that you are no different from the gay designers that you criticize. You push your rigid aesthetic onto others and unlike the gay designers you have no subtlety. You will say outright that a woman is unattractive and masculine.
Several women have emailed their pictures to you and asked you to judge their pictures on the masculine-feminine scale. There are women who are insecure enough to email their pictures to strangers so that their faces and bodies can be scrutinized and you see no problem with this. Striving to be "feminine" isn't as bad as striving to be thin although there is no way to change a "masculine" bone structure without major surgery. Your site is also potentially harmful to the gay community. You characterize their sexuality as deviant and abhorrent and you have compared them with pedophiles. You also characterize gay designers as pederasts, which is completely abusive and slanderous. Any crazy homophobe, apart from you, may use this false information as a weapon against gay people in general. You are irresponsible and delusional.
These clothes would look very out of place at most social gatherings but they are haute couture clothes. It is likely that they weren't designed with your average cocktail party in mind. You need to rethink your definition of haute couture. BTW, Daria is not a friggin "sexy model" that term applies better to your nasty soft porn stars.
PS. I don't ever recall describing myself as masculine. I did say once that if being a white trash whore makes someone feminine then I am proudly masculine. I don't consider myself masculine but I have a different definition of feminine than you do.
Eric, are you sure that BBB is a female? Judging from his/her insults I think BBB is a pimply, adolescent male. He/she calls me a fattie, which is a staple in the adolescent male insult arsenal. Then he/she compares me to a cartoon character (WTF). He/she obviously thought these insults were wounding enough to make me cry (lol). I can picture the little, pale, scrawny twerp giggling in his dark, messy room.
If I am right and BBB is really an adolescent boy then you should encourage him to leave this site immediately. The vulgar pictures of your grotesque nude women could scar him for life. He could grow up to be a hairstylist who dates masculine models, or even worse, he could become a gay designer (TEH HORROR!!). Anyways, I won't fight with BBB anymore because he/she is clearly a retard.
I think you are mistaking the term, high fashion for haute couture. Couture is an overused and erroneous description for ready-to-wear but high fashion is not. You are also using a really bizarre definition of haute couture that I have never heard before. Many of the haute couture pieces that you see on the runways would be totally unsuitable for any type of social gathering other than a costume party. Some couture designs would be just as inappropriate for a charity ball as Daria's SWIMSUIT would be. You are confused about the definition of high fashion, which is not even a correct translation of the French term, haute couture.
I agree that Daria does not look like a normal, average girl but that has always been one of my defenses of high fashion models. They are not average; they are just as unique and exclusive as the clothes and products that they advertise. Your "feminine" models have completely average looks with the exception of their waist to hip ratios.
erik
If at a height of 5"3 and measurments of 36-27-36 what kind of body type is this, would you say it is hourglass figure as there is a 9inch difference between hips and bust, if not then what kind of physique would you descrive it as?
Joshua: I was not aware of Claudia Lynx. She is a sexy woman.
Danielle: I have never described high-fashion models as “hermaphrodites” or “trannies.” I have used the expressions male-to-female transsexual and male transvestite, and for some fashion models only. These are neutral terms and are needed for descriptive purposes. At worst, I have used “drag queen” twice and there have been a handful of instances of sarcasm on my part as in putting some expressions -- e.g., sexy model -- in quotes to convey the irony (most of these examples are on the “Sexy fashion models?” page).
On the other hand, your comments on the feminine women shown are not descriptive; they are gross/hateful insults: “trailer trash whore,” “fugbeast,” “ogre,” etc.
If this were a useless site, you would not be a regular here. I don’t have the power to change the aesthetic preferences of homosexual designers, and I am pleased you have acknowledged its role after all, but I believe that I can undermine the gay influence behind the selection of beauty pageant contestants and lingerie models. You never know, if most people wake up to why high-fashion models are typically very thin, ultra-thin models may get banned in more nations (Italy was a big one since Milan is one of the fashion capitals of the world), and boy will the homosexuals be pleased if this happens! I personally don’t favor legislation to ban ultra-thin models since some women are naturally thin and should not be denied an opportunity to model if that is what the homosexuals want, but at least legislation can force the homosexuals to prove that their thin models are naturally skinny and reasonably healthy.
Elizabeth: Yes, Yamila's waist-hip proportions look more feminine than those of most others in the group photo, but I think she has breast implants. It is her face that mainly spoils it for those who prefer feminine beauty.
Ashley: Dasha doesn’t appear to be on the thicker side of optimum to me, especially for lingerie modeling. If you prefer slimmer women, I can post videos of slim women that are clearly much more feminine than Alessandra, but this will have to be on a new page since I have the code for posting videos disabled in the comments section.
Slimness is not a problem in Western societies, but the homosexual designers go beyond slim. Many of their models are too thin for most people.
Men tend to have relatively longer arms and a narrower face shape compared to women, but this doesn’t make long arms or narrow faces by themselves masculine. Just contrast the narrow face of Jennifer Love Hewitt with Alessandra’s. Jennifer has the face of a woman but Alessandra doesn’t. I have featured plenty of narrow-faced women in the attractive women section. Just take a look.
I don’t believe Alessandra has an eating disorder. She appears to be naturally thin.
Elizabeth: I haven't argued that "some men’s preference for masculinized women is code for an unexpressed homosexual inclination." In Hefner's case, you need to look at a number of issues.
The gay porn argument is weak. Jill Ann Spaulding could be easily lying just as Hefner could be, too, but Hefner has reported experimenting with bisexuality. What kind of heterosexual man voluntarily indulges in homosexual behavior?
I can cite evidence that lifetime-exclusive heterosexuals are different, with respect to sexual orientation, from self-identified heterosexuals that have indulged in homosexual behavior or experienced same-sex attraction at some point of their lives.
Just consider the stature of Playboy magazine: the most high profile of its kind, it gets women to pose nude who would not model nude elsewhere, and it pays its centerfolds an exorbitant amount compared to the vast majority of its competitors. What then explains the kind of women shown above? A nonheterosexual component to the attractions of the Editor-in-chief is strongly suspected, and Hefner has admitted to voluntarily indulging in homosexual behavior, confirming the suspicion.
ALBi: Both these women look good to me, especially Honey Lee, and are not masculine.
Ladies: Please keep flaming to a minimum.
BBB: I don’t think Danielle is overweight or obese, but she has described herself as masculine elsewhere, and is obviously not pleased with this site.
Danielle: Ready to wear clothing by Dior is obviously much higher class than what you would see at Walmart, but it isn’t high fashion. You are referring to the colloquial usage of high fashion, which is a relaxed/incorrect definition, and includes the more expensive ready to wear clothing. Don’t cite wikipedia. You or any other misinformed/malicious individual could have edited the entry you want me to read.
I never said that Daria is wearing a bizarre evening dress. I said that she is not wearing something appropriate for a general social gathering, i.e., not doing high-fashion modeling in the video. I agree that Daria looks female, but not feminine or even normal.
Mary: Estrogen therapy would require a doctor's prescription, and would only be recommended for women with below average estrogen levels since there are some risks such as increased odds of cancers of the reproductive system and mood disturbances. There are many plant sources that provide estrogenic substances (phytoestrogens) that are capable of having a biological effect, though there are questions such as what works and what are the risks. I will have to look up the literature and will post something on it at some point.
Tom: If someone asks me to rate a non-model, a non-beauty-pageant-contestant or a not-well-known person, I usually look up a few pictures of the woman and state my judgment. I use "appears to be..." because I have not looked up the woman's pictures extensively.
You got the meaning of normal with respect to masculinity-femininity right.
Ashley: You should be able to focus on their face and physique shape notwithstanding the dresses/hairstyles. Next time I will post a better video of fashion models.
Lena's appeal is because of her face and body (even though she hardly has breasts). Make-up is not much of an issue (the models have it on, too) and neither are her clothes special.
Danielle: Of course Lena is too fat to be a high-fashion model (do you really need to point this out to me?) apart from being too feminine. She looks a lot better than most women who work at Wendy's or similar restaurants. If she is not so unique looking, then one could go for a more unique look by selecting a woman with larger breasts and slightly less muscularity, but you know why the designers go for the unique look you see in the video.
Elizabeth: C'mon, the woman doesn't look anything like a skank. Concern yourself with appearance, not behavior because behavior is not being addressed. If you know of video clips of the others on the net, point out their location and I will see if they are suitable for posting.
lol, a self-hating fattie, you must be wolfing down that fat doughnut while you were typing with tears running down your face, just like eric cartman, lol.
BBB, you're a pathetic fool. I am a fattie now? Why would a fattie defend this skinny ass model to Eric? I never pretended to be a fashion insider so there is nothing pretentious about pointing out some of foolish things he believes about the fashion industry. I am not trying to explain rocket science. Most fashion models are clearly female some might look like men but the same can be said about any sizeable group of women. If you think that the ogres in Eric's "attractive" women section are suitable replacements for girls like Daria then you are just as delusional and disgusting as Eric. Now fall back you crackhead douche.
Danielle, you dumbfuck.
I've always thought that many runaway models look like really tall prepubescent boys, and many anti-anorexia and anti-fake-dieting proponents have agreed with this. Now I suppose to you and your ilk, all of them are Erik's cronies, right? And stop being so goddamn pretentious about haute coutre and shit, you can't change the fact that nowawdays a lot of these models look like transsexuals, you dumbfuck. You are probably just some very pretentious fat chick who wants to like those models lol.
What makes me a weirdo Eric? Is it my dislike of your nasty nude models?
Bellissima!
You are clearly insane. Get over yourself.
Eric, once again you have offered no real proof to support your delusions. You contend that these models are dating closet queers or men who have been attracted to or sexually interacted with other males in their youth. Once again, you have absolutely no proof of this. Your "proof" consists of the fact that Heidi Klum's former boyfriend is a hairstylist, which is too freaking simplistic and retarded to debate seriously. You also say that Leo Dicaprio and Tom Brady have both dated "masculinized" women which proves absolutely nothing other than that they may have a preference for these looks in women. When you come up with REAL proof that men who like these women are fags or have been faggish in their pasts then you have some proof. Right now you are letting your superiority complex and your deluded arrogance blind you.
Judging from the post above me, it seems that you have managed to acquire some pathetic internet cronies Eric. Please inform your sad, little minion that I was pointing out your ignorance of the high fashion industry which is perfectly relevant to this discussion and this website. Oh I almost forgot! Tell your servitor that Daria looks like a tall emaciated woman. She is obviously female in every picture I have seen of her. She probably looks better on her worst day than both of you look on your best day.
Ruth: Eva Longoria doesn’t have a feminine face and hence her face and body are not at odds with each other.
Tom: If you look at Zuzana’s face, it is on the narrow side and her gonial region (lower-back region of lower jaw) is powerfully developed (not clear in the pictures shown above), which is not consistent with an extremely feminine look.
Danielle: There are weirdos commenting here indeed, but they have been using names like Danielle and 8D, not Sionnach. The term hermaphrodite applies to humans with at least one ovary and at least one testis or an ovotestis, and there are some such people around. Sionnach did not say that high-fashion models are hermaphrodites, but is interested in finding out what proportion of them are not biologically female. Given the physical appearance of a number of high-fashion models, it is reasonable to wonder.
Sionnach: Hermaphrodites are rare among humans, and although most true hermaphrodites have the 46-XX constitution, it is very rare for them to give birth. I doubt that Heidi Klum is a hermaphrodite notwithstanding her looks. It is difficult to say what proportion of high-fashion models passed off as female is not female. I would guess that the great majority is female.
I will describe in brief the study of J. Richard Udry with respect to gender. Udry measured second trimester amniotic fluid testosterone levels in pregnant women (an approximation of fetal testosterone exposure) and later measured the testosterone levels of their adult daughters. He then had the daughters take a comprehensive questionnaire pertaining to behaviors and interests, and subjected the data to principal components factor analysis, a statistical tool that explains the variation in a large dataset in terms of main underlying factors. He came up with the following four factors: importance of home, feminine interests, job status and masculinity-femininity. “Importance of home” covered issues such as being ever married, number of live births, sex role orientation on a 16-item scale of gender role attitudes, importance of career, importance of children, 14-item domestic division of labor scale for current or last relationship and a 6-item sex-typed activities scale for current or last relationship. “Feminine interests” covered issues such as importance of marriage; a 20-item vocational interests inventory; interest in baby care; and interest in feminine appearance as judged by demeanor, facial attractiveness, use of jewelry, and use of cosmetics. “Job status” covered issues such as proportion female in current or last job, proportion female in work unit on last job and score on the Featherman socioeconomic index of current or last occupation. “Masculinity-femininity” covered issues such as masculinity and femininity score on the Personality Research Form; 10-items each on the feminine and masculine scales of the Bem Sex Role Inventory; and percent masculine items describing self, selected from an adjective checklist.
Udry then derived a second-order factor based on the 4 primary factors, and this turned out to be a bipolar factor labeled “gendered adult behavior.” The correlations between this bipolar factor and the four primary factors were 0.78 for importance of home, 0.65 for feminine interests, 0.66 for job status and 0.56 for masculinity-femininity. The magnitude of correlations varies from 0 to 1; the closer to 1, the greater the correlation. As if this wouldn’t infuriate feminists enough, Udry found out that prenatal testosterone exposure plus adulthood testosterone levels in the daughters explained 16% of the variation in their “gendered adult behavior.” 16% may not sound much, but given the comprehensive questionnaires the daughters filled out, a huge number of factors are expected to affect the behaviors and interests involved. Hence, 16% is an impressive figure for a single factor, i.e., testosterone exposure. Before a feminist jumps to conclusions about the remaining variance in “gendered adult behavior” being explained by socialization, Udry found out that if maternal attempts to encourage femininity in their daughters were added to the testosterone-behavior model, only an additional 2% of the variance in “gendered adult behavior” of the daughters could be explained. Worse for the feminists, a closer examination revealed that maternal attempts to encourage femininity in their daughters made the feminine girls more feminine, but no matter how much mothers tried to encourage feminine behaviors in their behaviorally masculinized daughters, it had little effect on their masculine behaviors. Hence the apt title used by Udry, “Biological Limits of Gender Construction.” Udry managed to get his paper published in the American Sociological Review! Feminists were super pissed and their hysterical response is one reason why you should read the paper and the comments on it (comments in volume 66, issue 4 of the journal). The editor had to explain how the paper was given the green light for publication.
There are many studies like this that demolish the core theoretical underpinnings of women’s studies courses. All that is needed is for some people with sufficient academic background to describe these studies online, in one place, for the general public.
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