Sarah: If you believe that Nikky has the typical VS look, then you have been wasting your time with this site. Do something better.
You should realize by now that this site does not concern itself with behavior. For all one knows a woman that doesn’t pose nude, including a VS model, could be very promiscuous in real life.
I do not like the second video better than the first; liking the videos is not even an issue. What matters is how the women look and what is responsible for the popularity of VS models. If Nikky were displaying lingerie in a non-seductive manner, she would look classy to you and with a rare exception or two, VS models still wouldn’t be a match. Concern yourself with looks as far as this site is concerned.
John: Nikky has above average femininity, and is more feminine than the vast majority of models used by Victoria’s Secret.
Erik how feminine is the first woman in the pic with large hips posted by zoe. She "looks" as though she has an hourglass figure? and how feminine is her body/face would you describe her body as extremely feminine? do you think the picture may be digitally manipulated because the point at which her waist starts from the left hand side doesnt seems to be level to the inward point at which her waist starts on the right hand side, unless its just the way she is stood. Also is an hourglass figure equal a feminine body? or can someone with an hourglass figure still be masculine looking?
LOL! I just realized that Grace is from Abby Winters and she's the awful goth girl with the flabby body. Anyways, she even more terrible looking facially in the first pics. You NEED to find better looking girls if you want people to take this site the least bit seriously. You also SHOULD put up pictures of the VS models when they are actually doing the job that you don't think they should be doing. This means that you should put up full body shots, detail shots and photos of their faces at the Victoria's Secret show. The way they look at the actual show SHOULD be the only pictures that you put up for comparison with your porn models. The way that any of the VS models look in candids or other editorials or ads is completly irrelevant. If they look good at the VS show then you have no argument.
Gisele is not my favorite model at all. I don't think her body is all that great but her legs are long and lean. I think she is rather trashy and I don't think she is particularly photogenic but she is fabulous on the VS runway. Veronika (lol) is just another one of your typical skanky nude models. Her features are too generic for her to stand out of a crowd. Abby Winters is absolutely horrid! She looks sickly with her sweaty hair, pallid complexion and her yellowing, uneven teeth!!! I am sorry but Grace is Really nasty. She has greasy hair. Her body is very untoned and she is as white as a ghost. The last picture is especially nasty. She has three chins in that picture and her thighs look like wrinkly, raw Tyson drumsticks. Gisele looks infinitely better than Grace will probably ever look especially on the VS runway though I do suspect that Gisele has had her breasts are augmented.
ps. She won't be doing Victoria's Secret anymore so you won't have to see her "manly" mug when you stare at your tv screen hoping to see some tall, bronzed manliness this winter (lol).
Why don't you ever have pictures of the VS models at the actual Victoria's Secret show? Is it because they look pretty damn good? You put up outdated pictures of Karolina on this page. At the beggining of her career she was primarily a high fashion model. Nowadays she doesn't do runway shows besides Victoria's Secret because she doesn't have to. She probably doesn't restrict her diet as much as she did when she was in her teens and she has a more filled out figure. Her breasts are modest and natural looking without her VS push up bra.
do you agree that an excessively feminine looking face isnt very appealing and that slight masuclinity of the face but not the body is very desirable for attractiveness than a face which looks too feminine?
Nikky Case looks like she would fit in with the Victoria's Secret models perfectly (if she didn't act so skanky). She has the typical VS look - slightly masculine, but sexy.
Honestly, I understand your dislike of high fashion models, but I don't see anything wrong with most VS models at all.
Erik, you just go for trashy over classy. That's why you like the second video so much more than the first.
I like Sarah K. but maybe that's because she has a face like mine. I like the cute baby faces. They seem so innocent. But I also appreciate the more masculine/womanly faces. They represent strong and wise women. I see myself as a strong woman. Unfortunately I had to let go of that ideal for me since I am stuck with a flat child-like face. So I learned to appreciate my own beauty and now I am attracted to that in other women too.
Someone told me that men like young looking women because they are more naive and easier to mate with than older wiser women. Pedophiles by nature? Maybe.
Will you create a version of this site that compares the attractiveness of men? I am a woman. I am somewhat offended, but I find some of your ideas interesting. At least if you make one of men then both genders will be equally offended. I always thought attractiveness was about proportions. I like proportionate faces/bodies in men. I also like masculine faces in women, but I'm straight. There are alot of men that like fashion models, masculine faces and no curves to some degree. There are different kinds of physical beauty, but I look at the whole package including personality to see if I really like someone as a mate. I think we are taught what to like from an early age by the media and by our culture. Maybe you can make a site about what personality traits people look for in partners. Also I think we look for features that remind us of ourselves or family members. What do you think about that?
These are the women in my "great beauties list" Grace Kelly, Ava Gardner, Greta Garbo, Catherine Deneuve, Claire Forlani, Hedy Lamrr, Dita Von Teese, Lana Turner,Dorothy Lamour, Dorothy Dandridge, among others.
Feminism concentrates on a wide array of issues and feminists and feminist theories are very diverse and sometimes conflicting. The title of your post should say "SOME feminists offended by Tom Ford" not all feminists have the same views and they aren't a monolith. You don’t seem to think that gay men can be “agents of the patriarchy” which means that you apparently have a very rudimentary grasp of prominent feminist theory. Gay men and straight, gay, and bisexual women can both actively and passively participate in the oppression of women. I hope you aren't serious when you say that you hope to "educate" feminists. I would bet a million dollars that loads of feminists would have serious issues with almost all of the articles on your site. I do agree with some feminist thinking but I have a lot of opinions that conflict with a lot of "feminist ideals" so don't try to paint as a militant feminist in any of your posts. I am sure that a lot of feminists would be offended by some of the stuff I have said about your nude "models".
Those two ads aren't particularly tasteful. I can see why some feminists would dislike them. The images are very vulgar especially the Tom Ford ad but these images aren't completely devoid of artistic merit. As the poster above me said, the styling and the photography in the D&G ad is quite professional at least it’s far more professional than any image you have placed on your site. I hope you aren't trying to convince anyone that these ads are representations of the typical high fashion ad. You may find many more raunchy ads especially by houses like D&G, who like to promote a raunchy highly sexual image of their products but these are by no means the standard fare for high fashion ads. Ads tend to be on the blander side of fashion photography. Fashion editorials are typically more creative and interesting than ads which blatantly try to push a brand name. I wouldn’t try to paint all of the high fashion as a pure world of art and beauty. No industry is like that and fashion houses often attempt to sell sex as part of the allure of their brand. Fashion designers aren’t all born equal and not all fashion houses are just about the beautiful clothes.
Even though Alessandra isn't the most feminine woman out there, you have to admit she is a pretty girl. She may not fit exactly to my taste, but I would be crazy to call her ugly.
That video of Dasha is probably the most hilarious thing I've ever watched. It's so laughable how such ugly girls try so hard to look sexy. The woman is beat as hell, Erik. I don't care how supposedly nice her body is, because her face, skin, hair, and demeanor just ruins it all. Even the dress she's wearing is trashy. And Danielle is right - she does look like she smells.
I'd rather look like Alessandra any day over Dasha; probably 99% of all women would. That's the reason why Alessandra is a supermodel, and Dasha isn't. Ale is fit and toned too, while Dasha looks like she'll be saggy and cellulite-infested in about five years tops.
Ew eww and ewwwww. Bad taste, Erik. Very bad taste.
The Dolce & Gabbana ad IS of artistic value. The overall message/feeling may not be pleasing to some, but their skin, her face, the background, etc. etc. is beautifully done.
Oh and those men in that ad are obviously flaming homos.
hey, I find Miss Puerto Rico and Miss Spain very attractive.
and they were right at picking Miss Ramos as Photogenic.
yes, she has a certain amount of masculinity, and that's why I classify her as sophisticated, if you ask men here (Philippines), a lot of them would agree that she is beautiful.
I see your point that there is nothing wrong with attractive-looking masculinized women, but you think that they are not suited in these kinds of pageants, but I think they were picked because of their sophisticated, somehow exotic looks.
Erik, thanks for your overview of the Udry study, which is most interesting. I see that the article is dated 2000. When was the actual study conducted? What was the time lapse between the initial fetal testing and the testing in adults? I look forward to reviewing the entire article myself.
In regards to all the hoopla about the study publication--I am not explicitly familiar with the stance of feminist theory in regards to gender roles, but gather from your summary that many feminists lean toward 'socialization' as an explanation for gender-related preferences and behavior. As I look at the four domains, I wonder if socialization with the feminists themselves may be inversely related to the strength of each domain, e.g. higher interest in family=lower involvement in the feminist movement. If this is true, one might question the motives behind feminist 'socialization,' which could be reframed as coercion or general self-serving propaganda completely unrelated to scientific exploration.
In your experience, are women with higher levels of physical masculinization more attracted to traditionally masculine professions, and if so, why? I have given a little thought to this and believe it possible that the feminist movement has now become such a strong part of mainstream U.S. culture, in that many women now combine careers with homemaking, that one can no longer make an unequivocal statement about the overall relationship of career/homemaking with gender characteristics. However, when one breaks the more global concept of 'career' down into specific traditionally male dominated jobs such as firefighting, police work, construction, etc., perhaps such associations can still be made. This is purely speculation on my part, but I would be very interested in hearing the thoughts of others on this.
Sarah: If you believe that Nikky has the typical VS look, then you have been wasting your time with this site. Do something better.
You should realize by now that this site does not concern itself with behavior. For all one knows a woman that doesn’t pose nude, including a VS model, could be very promiscuous in real life.
I do not like the second video better than the first; liking the videos is not even an issue. What matters is how the women look and what is responsible for the popularity of VS models. If Nikky were displaying lingerie in a non-seductive manner, she would look classy to you and with a rare exception or two, VS models still wouldn’t be a match. Concern yourself with looks as far as this site is concerned.
John: Nikky has above average femininity, and is more feminine than the vast majority of models used by Victoria’s Secret.
Erik how feminine is the first woman in the pic with large hips posted by zoe. She "looks" as though she has an hourglass figure? and how feminine is her body/face would you describe her body as extremely feminine? do you think the picture may be digitally manipulated because the point at which her waist starts from the left hand side doesnt seems to be level to the inward point at which her waist starts on the right hand side, unless its just the way she is stood. Also is an hourglass figure equal a feminine body? or can someone with an hourglass figure still be masculine looking?
LOL! I just realized that Grace is from Abby Winters and she's the awful goth girl with the flabby body. Anyways, she even more terrible looking facially in the first pics. You NEED to find better looking girls if you want people to take this site the least bit seriously. You also SHOULD put up pictures of the VS models when they are actually doing the job that you don't think they should be doing. This means that you should put up full body shots, detail shots and photos of their faces at the Victoria's Secret show. The way they look at the actual show SHOULD be the only pictures that you put up for comparison with your porn models. The way that any of the VS models look in candids or other editorials or ads is completly irrelevant. If they look good at the VS show then you have no argument.
Gisele is not my favorite model at all. I don't think her body is all that great but her legs are long and lean. I think she is rather trashy and I don't think she is particularly photogenic but she is fabulous on the VS runway. Veronika (lol) is just another one of your typical skanky nude models. Her features are too generic for her to stand out of a crowd. Abby Winters is absolutely horrid! She looks sickly with her sweaty hair, pallid complexion and her yellowing, uneven teeth!!! I am sorry but Grace is Really nasty. She has greasy hair. Her body is very untoned and she is as white as a ghost. The last picture is especially nasty. She has three chins in that picture and her thighs look like wrinkly, raw Tyson drumsticks. Gisele looks infinitely better than Grace will probably ever look especially on the VS runway though I do suspect that Gisele has had her breasts are augmented.
ps. She won't be doing Victoria's Secret anymore so you won't have to see her "manly" mug when you stare at your tv screen hoping to see some tall, bronzed manliness this winter (lol).
Why don't you ever have pictures of the VS models at the actual Victoria's Secret show? Is it because they look pretty damn good? You put up outdated pictures of Karolina on this page. At the beggining of her career she was primarily a high fashion model. Nowadays she doesn't do runway shows besides Victoria's Secret because she doesn't have to. She probably doesn't restrict her diet as much as she did when she was in her teens and she has a more filled out figure. Her breasts are modest and natural looking without her VS push up bra.
Another good source for celebrities exposed under an "unfavorable light" (in both the literal and the figurative sense)
is "The Superficial" :
http://www.thesuperficial.com/
Every time they try to play the "glamourous" card against you, you can always search from those sites for counter-ammunition.
I didn't write the above, as die Web Meister can attest.
I propose to IP ban the impersonators.
That's not fair play.
but she's still better than that other pr0nstar. anyday.
Erik
do you agree that an excessively feminine looking face isnt very appealing and that slight masuclinity of the face but not the body is very desirable for attractiveness than a face which looks too feminine?
Erik
is extreme femininity a correlate of beauty in other words the more feminine looking one is does it equal the more attractive they are or...?
Erik,how feminine is nicky case supposed to be or is she just feminine in comparison to the victorias secret models? i dont like her face.
How to recognize different types of skanks from quite a long way away
Lesson #1
Put the girls under the merciless conditions of direct midday sunlight exposure.
http://theblemish.com/2007/07/alessandra-ambrosio-cleans-her-car/
WOW ...
So sexy ...
So classy ...
So magnifique ...
And you can't tell her bad odour from here!
I'm in luv
You're shocking the girl with your comments.
http://theblemish.com/2007/04/alessandra-ambrosios-birthday-was-yesterday/
> I’d rather look like Alessandra any day over Dasha; probably 99% of all women would.
No. 99% of the women on the bitch side of a lesbian relationship.
Speak for yourselves.
Nikky Case looks like she would fit in with the Victoria's Secret models perfectly (if she didn't act so skanky). She has the typical VS look - slightly masculine, but sexy.
Honestly, I understand your dislike of high fashion models, but I don't see anything wrong with most VS models at all.
Erik, you just go for trashy over classy. That's why you like the second video so much more than the first.
I like Sarah K. but maybe that's because she has a face like mine. I like the cute baby faces. They seem so innocent. But I also appreciate the more masculine/womanly faces. They represent strong and wise women. I see myself as a strong woman. Unfortunately I had to let go of that ideal for me since I am stuck with a flat child-like face. So I learned to appreciate my own beauty and now I am attracted to that in other women too.
Someone told me that men like young looking women because they are more naive and easier to mate with than older wiser women. Pedophiles by nature? Maybe.
Will you create a version of this site that compares the attractiveness of men? I am a woman. I am somewhat offended, but I find some of your ideas interesting. At least if you make one of men then both genders will be equally offended. I always thought attractiveness was about proportions. I like proportionate faces/bodies in men. I also like masculine faces in women, but I'm straight. There are alot of men that like fashion models, masculine faces and no curves to some degree. There are different kinds of physical beauty, but I look at the whole package including personality to see if I really like someone as a mate. I think we are taught what to like from an early age by the media and by our culture. Maybe you can make a site about what personality traits people look for in partners. Also I think we look for features that remind us of ourselves or family members. What do you think about that?
Karolina Kurkova does not have a manly face:
http://www.femininebeauty.info/i/kurkova.1.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4005/lm1og3.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6118/lm2aq2.jpg
That is famous singer Luis Miguel, who, apart from the lips, nose line and upper brow, looks nothing like her.
Great site! A question: are the Olsen twins masculinized or just plain ugly?
These are the women in my "great beauties list" Grace Kelly, Ava Gardner, Greta Garbo, Catherine Deneuve, Claire Forlani, Hedy Lamrr, Dita Von Teese, Lana Turner,Dorothy Lamour, Dorothy Dandridge, among others.
Feminism concentrates on a wide array of issues and feminists and feminist theories are very diverse and sometimes conflicting. The title of your post should say "SOME feminists offended by Tom Ford" not all feminists have the same views and they aren't a monolith. You don’t seem to think that gay men can be “agents of the patriarchy” which means that you apparently have a very rudimentary grasp of prominent feminist theory. Gay men and straight, gay, and bisexual women can both actively and passively participate in the oppression of women. I hope you aren't serious when you say that you hope to "educate" feminists. I would bet a million dollars that loads of feminists would have serious issues with almost all of the articles on your site. I do agree with some feminist thinking but I have a lot of opinions that conflict with a lot of "feminist ideals" so don't try to paint as a militant feminist in any of your posts. I am sure that a lot of feminists would be offended by some of the stuff I have said about your nude "models".
Those two ads aren't particularly tasteful. I can see why some feminists would dislike them. The images are very vulgar especially the Tom Ford ad but these images aren't completely devoid of artistic merit. As the poster above me said, the styling and the photography in the D&G ad is quite professional at least it’s far more professional than any image you have placed on your site. I hope you aren't trying to convince anyone that these ads are representations of the typical high fashion ad. You may find many more raunchy ads especially by houses like D&G, who like to promote a raunchy highly sexual image of their products but these are by no means the standard fare for high fashion ads. Ads tend to be on the blander side of fashion photography. Fashion editorials are typically more creative and interesting than ads which blatantly try to push a brand name. I wouldn’t try to paint all of the high fashion as a pure world of art and beauty. No industry is like that and fashion houses often attempt to sell sex as part of the allure of their brand. Fashion designers aren’t all born equal and not all fashion houses are just about the beautiful clothes.
If my breasts were a bit bigger, my body would look exactly like Caroline Trentini's. At least in the picture Danielle posted, anyways.
And that Iekeliene woman doesn't even look human. She should change her last name to "Strange."
Even though Alessandra isn't the most feminine woman out there, you have to admit she is a pretty girl. She may not fit exactly to my taste, but I would be crazy to call her ugly.
That video of Dasha is probably the most hilarious thing I've ever watched. It's so laughable how such ugly girls try so hard to look sexy. The woman is beat as hell, Erik. I don't care how supposedly nice her body is, because her face, skin, hair, and demeanor just ruins it all. Even the dress she's wearing is trashy. And Danielle is right - she does look like she smells.
I'd rather look like Alessandra any day over Dasha; probably 99% of all women would. That's the reason why Alessandra is a supermodel, and Dasha isn't. Ale is fit and toned too, while Dasha looks like she'll be saggy and cellulite-infested in about five years tops.
Ew eww and ewwwww. Bad taste, Erik. Very bad taste.
The Dolce & Gabbana ad IS of artistic value. The overall message/feeling may not be pleasing to some, but their skin, her face, the background, etc. etc. is beautifully done.
Oh and those men in that ad are obviously flaming homos.
hey, I find Miss Puerto Rico and Miss Spain very attractive.
and they were right at picking Miss Ramos as Photogenic.
yes, she has a certain amount of masculinity, and that's why I classify her as sophisticated, if you ask men here (Philippines), a lot of them would agree that she is beautiful.
I see your point that there is nothing wrong with attractive-looking masculinized women, but you think that they are not suited in these kinds of pageants, but I think they were picked because of their sophisticated, somehow exotic looks.
Erik, thanks for your overview of the Udry study, which is most interesting. I see that the article is dated 2000. When was the actual study conducted? What was the time lapse between the initial fetal testing and the testing in adults? I look forward to reviewing the entire article myself.
In regards to all the hoopla about the study publication--I am not explicitly familiar with the stance of feminist theory in regards to gender roles, but gather from your summary that many feminists lean toward 'socialization' as an explanation for gender-related preferences and behavior. As I look at the four domains, I wonder if socialization with the feminists themselves may be inversely related to the strength of each domain, e.g. higher interest in family=lower involvement in the feminist movement. If this is true, one might question the motives behind feminist 'socialization,' which could be reframed as coercion or general self-serving propaganda completely unrelated to scientific exploration.
In your experience, are women with higher levels of physical masculinization more attracted to traditionally masculine professions, and if so, why? I have given a little thought to this and believe it possible that the feminist movement has now become such a strong part of mainstream U.S. culture, in that many women now combine careers with homemaking, that one can no longer make an unequivocal statement about the overall relationship of career/homemaking with gender characteristics. However, when one breaks the more global concept of 'career' down into specific traditionally male dominated jobs such as firefighting, police work, construction, etc., perhaps such associations can still be made. This is purely speculation on my part, but I would be very interested in hearing the thoughts of others on this.
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