I have been going insane over the past 2 years about my wife's butt. It is not attractive to me and I can't get it out of my mind. I love her for all the other reasons, but I cannot have sex with her because she has a butt that is senile (as you described that type) and it is wider up high at the hips and tapers down. I hate that look.
I would to have her butt with more volumne toward the bottom (she has a lot of volumne off of her hips that is part of the problem from the full back view). Anyway my main problem is that I am in a dilemma. I keep thinking that if she gets surgery it will be phony. In other words it will not really be HER butt. So my choices are going crazy, finding an old photo of her where she had an acceptable butt (which I cannot find).remembering a good butt image of her in the past (which I cannot remember), or having her get a surgical procedure for volume and projective AND at the same time sort of feeling that the surgery is is not something that is phony and that it is really her. Is there ANY other more natural way to get volume and projection other than surgery. Is there any way to look at surgery as natural. For instance does her added fats work in conjunction with her natural body or is it just an add on?
Erik, i feel that you are so very much mistaken in most everything that you say. Upon first reading your site i was under the impression you were actually a female and were just supremely jealous of the supermodels you were discussing. It was as though you felt yourself to be more feminine than them, and that you needed to exclaim to the world that most everybody is in complete denial to think supermodels are actually attractive.
You know what... supermodels that make a list of the top 25 are there because they are attractive. Ask most heterosexual men if they would like to spend a day with a supermodel and what do you think they would say?
The women you have used to demonstrate more feminine aspects of the female makeup are a long shot from being as desirable as the supermodels you are attacking.
Masculine looking men aren't generally considered in the most attractive category when it comes to female preference. It seems that a slightly feminine face (with less-than square looking features) are desirable for reasons of a more balanced testosterone level - where increased testosterone can be the cause of aggression and violence.
So, an increased femininity in men and an increased masculinity in females looks to be where heightened-attraction in today's society is being found.
I can agree wholeheartedly that a purely feminine face WAS the most attractive for the past many hundreds of years but this is no longer the case.
Women have been treated as sub-ordinates for many thousands of years, but if you look at the last 40 years that has actually changed dramatically and will continue to do so.
Where a women's sole job in life used to be to bear and raise children, today and hopefully increasingly so in the future, women will be performing more and more significant roles around the world.
Men looking for a potential mate today don't just see a child-rearer, they also see a business partner, a financial contributer, a co-decision maker and so on.
The more masculine features that you notice on these models is actually a sign of increasing intelligence and aptitude for doing jobs which were typically considered male-dominated. Research distinctive female cheekbones elsewhere on the internet and you will find many instances where there are significant correlations between high-cheekbones and successful women.
So please shut up about your feminine rant. The very act of you discussing women in this way, and saying that non-feminine is bad, is completely stupid.
If these women have evolved to be on this earth with all the signs of being a woman, then how are they any less of a woman because they have distinctive cheekbones and trim physiques.
The pure attractiveness that has seen these women succeed in a modeling career also makes it clear that society wants to promote this type of genetic makeup (among very many others i might add).
So - give us a thousand years and there will, in my opinion, being many million more women who look like the supermodels of today. They will be smart, capable, and be capable of producing children with the same qualities.
Stop pushing your chauvinistic views on other people. I am sure you are a sad man that would date a supermodel in an instant given the chance.
Erik you wrote above in one of the responses about the actress aishwarya rai "With respect to masculinity-femininity, she is normal. Her face may look feminine in some pictures, mostly from her twenties and especially if they are airbrushed, but her physique is not feminine" so if aishwaryas physique isnt feminine then in what sense is she normal with respect to masculinity-femininity?
How would you know that certain groups are "naturally" more prone to obesity than Europeans? Obesity levels differ between racial groups in the United States but how does this difference equal a genetic predisposition to obesity? I think desired body fat levels have changed throughout western history. Thin is in now but it wasn't always so. Many of sex symbols of the past were chubby or even fat. People like Lillian Russel and Theda Bara were the idolized "it girls" of their eras. No one would think very much of them now a days but back then they were hot stuff.
regarding extreme femininity, actress scarlett johannson seems to fit the bill, notwithstanding a vague hint of boyishness in the face. am i correct? i feel halle berry should be included in your attractive women section ; her femininity overrides those of other white actresses, and certainly those of her dark-skinned compatriots
I'm thinking that one reason is because people aren't going to put up the time to understand the concepts shown here.
The most comments are on pages where there are famous super models. The latest Daria Werbowy entry has about 30 comments. While this one has no comments at all...
Pages with equations and scientific explanations rarely even have comments, whilst pages attacking VS models get 100000000 and 1 comments.
You people are obviously just emotional because your favorite idols are getting attacked.
These people are only opposing because Erik has opened their eyes to the possibility that their idols are not feminine.
Pages like these go to show how the people who disagree with Erik don't actually read his arguments before disagreeing.
Let me repeat this one more time: Attractive is SUBJECTIVE. Depending on what society you live in, you have different notions of what attractiveness is. Also, every person has their own idea of what is attractive. (Some guys LIKE thin, androgynous women, some guys like curvy women, etc.) Attractiveness is subjective. Don't bring up the "well most people...." argument. You can't argue against me. Attractiveness is an OPINION which varies from society to society, from person to person. That's it. As a researcher, you should know this. There ARE different types of beauty. Beauty is diverse.
But doesn't such a study by its nature bias people toward accepting the middle range of bodies? Perhaps one should study people's reaction to a subset of the drawings, and see to what extent, if any, the preferred and socially acceptable lists are sifted toward the skew of the subset.
Also, photographs of real people, or manipulated images based on one photo of one real person, would be easier to correlate to real people and real BMIs/weights/fat %s than are line drawings.
...it’s bizarre yet totally accepted by Western culture…
Not truly accepted since the typical person who didn’t find anything odd before coming across this site, like you, just hadn’t come across sufficient feminine contrast, especially presented side by side.
A quick note though...regular physical activity is recommended for health and fitness. Do not avoid it. You could be physically active/exercising without masculinizing your physique.
Hallo: To compare face shape, why should the distance between the eyes be equalized? This distance isn’t the same across people even if you adjust for face size. Figuring out how feminine or attractive a woman is from facial measurements is not an easy task. Subtle changes here and there can make a big difference. Therefore, I would prefer to look at pictures than consider a set of measurements with no picture.
I have only seen a small version of Victor Johnson’s attractive female face, with the sides covered by hair, and she looks feminine.
I haven’t gotten the impression that high-fashion models usually have a mixture of masculine and very feminine features. They generally tend to be masculinized. Whereas individual fashion models can have wider faces, thicker lips or a shorter lower face than average women, the general tendency among them is to be masculinized. Marquardt has used high-fashion models to come up with his mask, and it will become clear to you that the mask describes the shape of masculinized white women; just read the article on Marquardt’s mask application cited above and subsequent articles that I will post on this topic.
In the article above I talked about Nole Marin being clueless. There is another possibility, namely that Nole Marin knows the answer but is trying to mislead others.
I usually see fashion models on the runway and in the street. they are often very near to me and I can see them for long time and very well. Most of them are very feminine and gorgeous and men in the street tell them "you are beutifullll".I tell you what I can see very well:they have very beautiful skin without wrincklness, acne or other imperfections, they are very young and are similar to female child. they are very slimm but not skinny because they have very slimm bones, long legs (but the majority of them are not very tall:they are 170-173 cm tall but they seems very tall because they have very long, slimm legs).finally the faces:they have very small faces, more small than average women.they have small mouth with pumped lips and big eyes.they have very regular faces.they are gorgeous, really.
Hi, your site has hit me with the startling realisation that regular exercising is making me and has always made me look over-masculine, which is totally crazy considering I was doing these things to try to look more "attractive" to the straight male eye. I feel that, since my teens, I have been trying to live up to the masculinized female body shape ideal which really isn't my fault considering I'm bombarded with it every single day. Even though my boyfriend is disgusted by any amount of defined muscle on a woman and has said a thousand times he prefers me to look curvier and softer and to have no muscle tone, I ignore him because if I turn on the t.v or open a magazine, I am confronted with yet another "slim and toned" ideal. You have a point, a lot of celebs and models do have the bodies of young boys! Why is it only now that I see that this isn't necessarily something to idolise...
For complete gender bender brain fry, watch the film "Swept Away" and check out the scene where Madonna is on the boat in her bikini. She appears to be trying to capture a very feminine 1950s movie star look in the face (big shades to hide her gaunt cheeks)movie star) yet has the toned body of a young man-it's bizarre yet totally accepted by Western culture...
Attractiveness IS subjective. What you find attractive may not be attractive to others and vice versa. If you are going to do research, please learn the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. Thanks.
I think #1 is the most attractive and #7 could be second easily. Another thing that would make adifference would be which one has the most soothing voice.
I found your website through a search on the golden ratio and since then have read everything I could find on your site.
I have found most of the information on feminization vs masculinization to be very persuasive and informative.
Without a doubt you are a very intelligent man.
The only problem I have with your website is that often the application of your dogmas on feminization fail tremedously and discredit your site. To speak specifically, your section on Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Models vs Glamour Models seems to be filled with fallacy.
I believe in what you try to communicate in your site; however, I beg that you would find better examples.
It seems that many times you confuse mediocre glamour models with glamour models that are actually feminine.
There are glamour models that are feminine but inferring that all glamour models are superior to high fashion models is questionable at best.
It just isn't tactful to lump all glamour models into the same class.
There are obviously many that are feminine but... you get my point.
This post, however, is about this article. You wrote about women who have an enormous amount of estrogen and low amounts of androgens and I was wondering if the following woman fit into that category.
She is Anya from MPLstudio.com
I am under the impression that she may be a case of extreme feminity.
I am also wondering if you might know what that scar is on her lower right abdomen.
I understand that you may find reason to defend yourself against this post but I ask that you would primarily answer my question about the girl in the picture as I do actually agree with you on your notion of femininity vs masculinity.
The first girl is actually alright looking. SHe has a pretty good body though her face is more average girl nex door cute. The second girl would be a terrible model and her video is disgusting. She has an average face, bad hair and some ugly, red legs. I have posted some pictures of models with "feminine" bodies before. I don't know why you ignored that post.
I have been going insane over the past 2 years about my wife's butt. It is not attractive to me and I can't get it out of my mind. I love her for all the other reasons, but I cannot have sex with her because she has a butt that is senile (as you described that type) and it is wider up high at the hips and tapers down. I hate that look.
I would to have her butt with more volumne toward the bottom (she has a lot of volumne off of her hips that is part of the problem from the full back view). Anyway my main problem is that I am in a dilemma. I keep thinking that if she gets surgery it will be phony. In other words it will not really be HER butt. So my choices are going crazy, finding an old photo of her where she had an acceptable butt (which I cannot find).remembering a good butt image of her in the past (which I cannot remember), or having her get a surgical procedure for volume and projective AND at the same time sort of feeling that the surgery is is not something that is phony and that it is really her. Is there ANY other more natural way to get volume and projection other than surgery. Is there any way to look at surgery as natural. For instance does her added fats work in conjunction with her natural body or is it just an add on?
HELP ME
Larry Robinson
Erik, i feel that you are so very much mistaken in most everything that you say. Upon first reading your site i was under the impression you were actually a female and were just supremely jealous of the supermodels you were discussing. It was as though you felt yourself to be more feminine than them, and that you needed to exclaim to the world that most everybody is in complete denial to think supermodels are actually attractive.
You know what... supermodels that make a list of the top 25 are there because they are attractive. Ask most heterosexual men if they would like to spend a day with a supermodel and what do you think they would say?
The women you have used to demonstrate more feminine aspects of the female makeup are a long shot from being as desirable as the supermodels you are attacking.
Masculine looking men aren't generally considered in the most attractive category when it comes to female preference. It seems that a slightly feminine face (with less-than square looking features) are desirable for reasons of a more balanced testosterone level - where increased testosterone can be the cause of aggression and violence.
So, an increased femininity in men and an increased masculinity in females looks to be where heightened-attraction in today's society is being found.
I can agree wholeheartedly that a purely feminine face WAS the most attractive for the past many hundreds of years but this is no longer the case.
Women have been treated as sub-ordinates for many thousands of years, but if you look at the last 40 years that has actually changed dramatically and will continue to do so.
Where a women's sole job in life used to be to bear and raise children, today and hopefully increasingly so in the future, women will be performing more and more significant roles around the world.
Men looking for a potential mate today don't just see a child-rearer, they also see a business partner, a financial contributer, a co-decision maker and so on.
The more masculine features that you notice on these models is actually a sign of increasing intelligence and aptitude for doing jobs which were typically considered male-dominated. Research distinctive female cheekbones elsewhere on the internet and you will find many instances where there are significant correlations between high-cheekbones and successful women.
So please shut up about your feminine rant. The very act of you discussing women in this way, and saying that non-feminine is bad, is completely stupid.
If these women have evolved to be on this earth with all the signs of being a woman, then how are they any less of a woman because they have distinctive cheekbones and trim physiques.
The pure attractiveness that has seen these women succeed in a modeling career also makes it clear that society wants to promote this type of genetic makeup (among very many others i might add).
So - give us a thousand years and there will, in my opinion, being many million more women who look like the supermodels of today. They will be smart, capable, and be capable of producing children with the same qualities.
Stop pushing your chauvinistic views on other people. I am sure you are a sad man that would date a supermodel in an instant given the chance.
Erik you wrote above in one of the responses about the actress aishwarya rai "With respect to masculinity-femininity, she is normal. Her face may look feminine in some pictures, mostly from her twenties and especially if they are airbrushed, but her physique is not feminine" so if aishwaryas physique isnt feminine then in what sense is she normal with respect to masculinity-femininity?
How would you know that certain groups are "naturally" more prone to obesity than Europeans? Obesity levels differ between racial groups in the United States but how does this difference equal a genetic predisposition to obesity? I think desired body fat levels have changed throughout western history. Thin is in now but it wasn't always so. Many of sex symbols of the past were chubby or even fat. People like Lillian Russel and Theda Bara were the idolized "it girls" of their eras. No one would think very much of them now a days but back then they were hot stuff.
Lillian Russell
Theda Bara
ur such a pedophile erik
N E WAYZ:
these links r better than ur shit, so no one comes here N E MOAR:
http://mamavision.com/
http://5resolutions.blogspot.com/
and they're not racist, like u. or a pedophile. like u. or a homophobe.
hahah peace kthxbye
Nobody could have said it better, Prasiddha.
regarding extreme femininity, actress scarlett johannson seems to fit the bill, notwithstanding a vague hint of boyishness in the face. am i correct? i feel halle berry should be included in your attractive women section ; her femininity overrides those of other white actresses, and certainly those of her dark-skinned compatriots
grace kelly is incontestably a feminine woman, who appears to have squared gonial angles-is it just me, or is her jawline squared?
ok..jow about someone like Cintia Dicker ? she has a gogeous face and an amazing body..u can't say this one looks masculine.
http://onethousandmodels.com/cintiadicker/cintiadicker-img14.html
http://onethousandmodels.com/cintiadicker/cintiadicker-img30.html
http://onethousandmodels.com/cintiadicker/cintiadicker-img32.html
http://onethousandmodels.com/cintiadicker/cintiadicker-img23.html
Funny. There's no comments here.
I'm thinking that one reason is because people aren't going to put up the time to understand the concepts shown here.
The most comments are on pages where there are famous super models. The latest Daria Werbowy entry has about 30 comments. While this one has no comments at all...
Pages with equations and scientific explanations rarely even have comments, whilst pages attacking VS models get 100000000 and 1 comments.
You people are obviously just emotional because your favorite idols are getting attacked.
These people are only opposing because Erik has opened their eyes to the possibility that their idols are not feminine.
Pages like these go to show how the people who disagree with Erik don't actually read his arguments before disagreeing.
You narrow minded jerks.
Let me repeat this one more time: Attractive is SUBJECTIVE. Depending on what society you live in, you have different notions of what attractiveness is. Also, every person has their own idea of what is attractive. (Some guys LIKE thin, androgynous women, some guys like curvy women, etc.) Attractiveness is subjective. Don't bring up the "well most people...." argument. You can't argue against me. Attractiveness is an OPINION which varies from society to society, from person to person. That's it. As a researcher, you should know this. There ARE different types of beauty. Beauty is diverse.
Interesting study.
But doesn't such a study by its nature bias people toward accepting the middle range of bodies? Perhaps one should study people's reaction to a subset of the drawings, and see to what extent, if any, the preferred and socially acceptable lists are sifted toward the skew of the subset.
Also, photographs of real people, or manipulated images based on one photo of one real person, would be easier to correlate to real people and real BMIs/weights/fat %s than are line drawings.
Rowena:
Quote:
Not truly accepted since the typical person who didn’t find anything odd before coming across this site, like you, just hadn’t come across sufficient feminine contrast, especially presented side by side.
A quick note though...regular physical activity is recommended for health and fitness. Do not avoid it. You could be physically active/exercising without masculinizing your physique.
Mar: Most people share a similar notion of what is attractive in women.
Hallo: To compare face shape, why should the distance between the eyes be equalized? This distance isn’t the same across people even if you adjust for face size. Figuring out how feminine or attractive a woman is from facial measurements is not an easy task. Subtle changes here and there can make a big difference. Therefore, I would prefer to look at pictures than consider a set of measurements with no picture.
I have only seen a small version of Victor Johnson’s attractive female face, with the sides covered by hair, and she looks feminine.
Lena: You are mistaken about Marquardt’s face fitting Victor Johnston’s beautiful female face. I have begun addressing the problem of shape comparison in reference to Marquardt’s mask.
I haven’t gotten the impression that high-fashion models usually have a mixture of masculine and very feminine features. They generally tend to be masculinized. Whereas individual fashion models can have wider faces, thicker lips or a shorter lower face than average women, the general tendency among them is to be masculinized. Marquardt has used high-fashion models to come up with his mask, and it will become clear to you that the mask describes the shape of masculinized white women; just read the article on Marquardt’s mask application cited above and subsequent articles that I will post on this topic.
In the article above I talked about Nole Marin being clueless. There is another possibility, namely that Nole Marin knows the answer but is trying to mislead others.
Hi Erik,
I usually see fashion models on the runway and in the street. they are often very near to me and I can see them for long time and very well. Most of them are very feminine and gorgeous and men in the street tell them "you are beutifullll".I tell you what I can see very well:they have very beautiful skin without wrincklness, acne or other imperfections, they are very young and are similar to female child. they are very slimm but not skinny because they have very slimm bones, long legs (but the majority of them are not very tall:they are 170-173 cm tall but they seems very tall because they have very long, slimm legs).finally the faces:they have very small faces, more small than average women.they have small mouth with pumped lips and big eyes.they have very regular faces.they are gorgeous, really.
Good blog! intresting work. )))
Hi, your site has hit me with the startling realisation that regular exercising is making me and has always made me look over-masculine, which is totally crazy considering I was doing these things to try to look more "attractive" to the straight male eye. I feel that, since my teens, I have been trying to live up to the masculinized female body shape ideal which really isn't my fault considering I'm bombarded with it every single day. Even though my boyfriend is disgusted by any amount of defined muscle on a woman and has said a thousand times he prefers me to look curvier and softer and to have no muscle tone, I ignore him because if I turn on the t.v or open a magazine, I am confronted with yet another "slim and toned" ideal. You have a point, a lot of celebs and models do have the bodies of young boys! Why is it only now that I see that this isn't necessarily something to idolise...
For complete gender bender brain fry, watch the film "Swept Away" and check out the scene where Madonna is on the boat in her bikini. She appears to be trying to capture a very feminine 1950s movie star look in the face (big shades to hide her gaunt cheeks)movie star) yet has the toned body of a young man-it's bizarre yet totally accepted by Western culture...
It looks like the picture shorted out so here is the website which features her instead. http://www.mplstudios.com/anya.htm
Attractiveness IS subjective. What you find attractive may not be attractive to others and vice versa. If you are going to do research, please learn the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. Thanks.
I think #1 is the most attractive and #7 could be second easily. Another thing that would make adifference would be which one has the most soothing voice.
if they're not 5-9, they cant model then 99% of the time. that has nothing to do with fem or butch
I found your website through a search on the golden ratio and since then have read everything I could find on your site.
I have found most of the information on feminization vs masculinization to be very persuasive and informative.
Without a doubt you are a very intelligent man.
The only problem I have with your website is that often the application of your dogmas on feminization fail tremedously and discredit your site. To speak specifically, your section on Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Models vs Glamour Models seems to be filled with fallacy.
I believe in what you try to communicate in your site; however, I beg that you would find better examples.
It seems that many times you confuse mediocre glamour models with glamour models that are actually feminine.
There are glamour models that are feminine but inferring that all glamour models are superior to high fashion models is questionable at best.
It just isn't tactful to lump all glamour models into the same class.
There are obviously many that are feminine but... you get my point.
This post, however, is about this article. You wrote about women who have an enormous amount of estrogen and low amounts of androgens and I was wondering if the following woman fit into that category.
She is Anya from MPLstudio.com
I am under the impression that she may be a case of extreme feminity.
I am also wondering if you might know what that scar is on her lower right abdomen.
I understand that you may find reason to defend yourself against this post but I ask that you would primarily answer my question about the girl in the picture as I do actually agree with you on your notion of femininity vs masculinity.
Thanks,
Michael
The first girl is actually alright looking. SHe has a pretty good body though her face is more average girl nex door cute. The second girl would be a terrible model and her video is disgusting. She has an average face, bad hair and some ugly, red legs. I have posted some pictures of models with "feminine" bodies before. I don't know why you ignored that post.
Reka Ebergenyi
Pages