Would you consider Katherine's face masculine? My face is close to this minus the high cheekbones. I'm still waiting for the response as to whether finger length truly has a relation to hormone levels. I want to know if I am feminine or masculine!
And yes I'm a natural blonde, it has darkened over the years though and I don't care if Emily doesn't believe me on that. I have no biases against pale skinned blondes, I happen to be one of them for God's sake.
So Barberella, what would you say my face shape is?
If you combined Katherine Heigl and Drew Barrymore's faces you'd get a face close to mine:
But my face is closer to Katherine's. It pretty scary how close though. But there are certain features I share with Drew, can't put my finger on them though. But yeah, my eye color is close to Katherines, except mine have hints of green in them making them hazel, but they are just as dark. And my cheekbones aren't that high, so my jaw and lower face don't look as long as Katherines. My nose is similar at the tip, but the bridge is slightly different. My nose bridge is less robust, ever so slightly thinner.
See, I think Katherine has a round face. So what would you classify her as?
Looking at the Charlize pics again, Godis, take a look at the one near the top where her hair is pulled back and she is wearing the purple gown: that is oval, though slightly rounded. Do the same thing with the soap, but on your computer monitor. Oval, but slightly rounder. Grace Kelley has a more prominant, square jaw, but is also more oval than square. I assess people's facial shapes all day long....that doesn't mean that I'm THE expert, but I have a pretty good idea.....love and respect
While I will not say, explicitly, that people should or shouldn't race mix, as I don't want nor need ignorant comments leveled at me, one thing is certain: Heidi Klum's genes, her features, coloring, etc. are no longer there. You can still see them in her daughter, but her sons look black, will most likely indentify as black, so what difference does it make that Heidi's their mother at all? Yes, I realize, Heidi is very much in love with Seal, and I'm glad she's happy....but her genes are no longer relevant here. Her sons will not carry on her unique and "ethnic"(German) features. They most certainly are lost.
Once again, I'd like to reiterate my abslolute PRIDE in my Northern and Northwestern European heritage. These woman are not models, just girls out at clubs in various European cities. None of these photos were "cherry picked", it took me all of about 5 minutes to find these, and there are countless more that do a decent job of depicting their natural beauty.
Godis: Please don't take my comment as a personal attack. I have seen a lot of very attractive people from many parts of Europe, including, Romania. But just as you are proud of you heritage, I am proud of mine. The "piggish" nose I possess is one of the most "asked for" noses by plastic surgery patients, so I think that my nose is probably not all that hideous. I can see where there was some definite tension between you and Emily on the Ekatarina thread. I am not here to choose sides. She has however, made some valid points, and to be fair, so have you. As far as the Grace Kelley oval, or not(?) debate, Grace's face is primarily oval, I think, but she does have a stronger jaw, so there for, she may have a more squarish element. As far as facial shapes when smiling, when I smile, I still have an oval face, as the jaw (gonal) region still lies flat, but the muscles move the shape in such a way that one might say that it is heart or diamond shape. The best way to assess face shape is to NOT smile when making that evaluation.
It seems as though one immediately is defensive toward a commentator who takes a sympathetic stance towards Emily. I'm sorry if I've put you on the defensive by agreeing with her about some basic principles here. But my apreement with her does not mean that I don't wish to have intelligent conversations with others here also.
When attempting to post pics earlier, they got a little messed up in the way I formatted. I, too, wanted to show that Northern and North Western Europeans are beautiful, to me. And if that makes me a "bitch" like Emily, than I offer no apologies.
When I am less tired, I will post pics of forties, and fifties "pin-ups" to show what I truly find feminine and beautiful, for the modern ideal of fashion and beauty is appalling. Some will be photos, and some art.
And lastly, I don't believe that I said that Eastern Europeans couldn't have fine, or gracile feature, I'm sure a lot of them do, however, what I was noting was that the FREQUENCY of fine and gracile features will be greater in N. Europe. I did not say they'd be non-existant everywhere else.
As far as admitting flaws of Northern Europeans, as with any population with fair skin, people might want to be careful with the amount of sun exposure they get, as the risk of premature aging and skin cancer increases. And I'm sure it's safe to say that every ethnic group has flaws. Some have more than others, some have less. It's all relative.
I don't understand what you are saying with this. Are you saying that these women are sexier than the ones in your attractive women section?
If so, why are they more attractive? Or are they supposed to be less attractive?
What is more important to attractiveness femininity or sexiness? Can feminine women be sexy too? I am assuming the difference between the women above than the one's in the attractive women section is that the one's above are more mascunilized but still look good. Right?
You know, the more I read through these threads, the more I see, EMILY'S AN IDIOT, EMILY'S A RACIST, etc. If the basis of one's arguments is ad hominem attacks, and straw men left and right, then I hardly see how any of you who hurl these insults are any better than she is. Find reasonable debates, backed up with some kind of intelligable argument. And lets not take this so damn seriously....
anonymous: say what you will, but I don't believe I spoke for ALL non-Europeans, but there are a vast majority who do. Just check out the "Tyra Banks on Honesty" thread for further discussion of this. Tyra even admits that her hair is a weave because her natural hair would not have been "marketable" in the industry (modeling) that she had pursued. She also interrogates the Korean American woman, who got eyelid surgery (to look less Asian, as the woman admitted), on the "real" reason that she got the surgery. That real reason was to be more European looking. The rate of plastic surgery in Asian countries, particularly Korea, is astronomical. I'm assuming that you are non-white, and are taking offense because a white woman dares to say that the looks of those of her race are beautiful and worth preserving. There are countless sites on the net proclaiming Asian, Latin, Black Beauty,etc. and those sites are considered perfectly fine. Well I happen to believe that N. Europeans are beautiful just as they are, but I'm not supposed to say this. Too bad.
Emily, you need not thank me. I am only speaking what I believe is to be the truth, and we just so happen to agree. I guess now that I'm here, the hate spewing will be directed toward me instead! (Smile) :) I admire your honesty, even if no one else does.
I posted some pics on the self-esteem section of some more "normal" Northern and North West Europeans, however, the display of them is rather confusing, bear with me....I think it is a good representation of some of the other N. European nationalities, i.e. Irish, Dutch, German, Danish and English. Hope you'll appreciate those:)
And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Grace Kelly doesn't have a gorgeous face. Her face is admirable and anyone with that face type is very lucky. I am simply stating that her face is not oval. I don't find this to be a flaw. I believe that an oval face shape can get boring, however a face like Grace Kelly's will always be interesting,striking, and beautiful at the same time. She also has fine facial features, like nice eyes, a small nose, and nice lips. Therefore, she really has the whole package. The only thing she doesn't have is an oval face, and if she did have an oval face she would look like any other girl and would not be the icon she is today. And yes her cheeks jut out but that is a good thing. Sideways prominent cheeks either due to femininity or just genes makes one significantly attractive. Research proves this.
*Might I add that my two friends from Lebanon are actually sisters. They are not two random unrelated women from Lebanon, and so it is obvious why they share fine facial features in common.
I am aware of the pull your hair back and trace your face trick to determining face shape. I've done it before and my face does not come out a circle. It comes out an oval, and the reason is because almost no one's face is really a circle. That doesn't mean it is not round. It's not just the length of the face that determines whether it is round or oval, it is the length of the face in relation to the width of the face. The wider the face and shorter the length, the more it leans towards a round face. For a face to be fully balanced and considered an oval, the length of the face has to be at least one and a half times the width. Anything under that measurement is considered a round face, period. Only then is the face perfectly balanced when those measurements add up.
I can see how you believe Charlize Theron to have an oval shape. However, I don't believe her porportions are truly those of an oval, and although close, they don't cut it. Most round faces are close to oval faces, but they don't cut it. In many photos she is smiling, changing the shape of her face. Also, many times photos distort features. My face appears more elongated in photos than it does in reality. I don't understand why this happens, but it does. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens to celebrities as well. After all most people will tell you that celebrities look very different in reality than they do on our tv screens and in magazines. Even camera's during events can distort a celebrity's feautures because in Hollywood everything is designed to make everything seem more attractive.
I believe I have every right to call Emily out. Yes, I believe I called Nordic noses "piggish" and Nordic skin colors washed out. I have pointed out some very obvious flaws in a rude,undiplomatic, and plain insulting manner. However, they are good descriptions and I have not necessarily degraded any persons with my descriptions. I can tell you right now that many Romanians have what they call an "eagle" nose. Features are often described in relation to animals, the pig nose was the best way to describe a common Scandinavian nose. Although anyone can tell by the tone of my passage that I was trying to be mean, I don't believe it was a horrible insult. Many people believe pig noses to be cute and describe them that way, as pig noses. On the other hand Emily has not pointed out only the physical flaws of Eastern Europeans but has decided to portray them as cheap low lifes. Often times she relied on stereotypes that were not necessarily true and provided cherry picked photos to support these stereotypes. This created a false perception to any reader because they suggested that a whole ethnic group was a certain way. She labeled everyone in a country or part of the world as a certain way, leaving no room for the possibility that perhaps individuals in that group were not that way. She left no room for a reader to conclude that indeed there are attractive and civilized women in Eastern Europe. I believe that her photos are not accurate representations of any group's average attractiveness and behavior, including those of her beloved Scandinavians. In my opinion although Eastern European women have a higher frequency of round faces, broad faces, hooked noses, etc. than Northern European women, they do not on average have hooked noses and rugged coarse broad faces. Emily also decides to assign any undesirable features to Eastern European women and any desirable ones to Nordic women. It is obvious she is attacking Eastern Europeans when what she claims cannot possibly be so. Round faces are just as common in Nordic countries as in Eastern ones. The photos she constantly displays suggests this as well, although I don't believe those photos are a good representation of her country's attractiveness on average. The point is that even the photos she could find of attractive women from Scandinavia do not have a high frequency of women with oval faces, and instead exhibit women with combination face types, most commonly square and round actually.
I try to be an open minded person. I, like any other human being, have ego problems. However, I do try my best to set aside those personal issues and educate myself about the realities of the world I live in. I have readily admitted on this site, after a time, that Nordic women are more feminine and attractive on average. I don't like this, I am not Nordic. However, I will admit it because the facts are adding up. However, that doesn't mean I won't recognize flaws as well. I believe it is important to recognize flaws, while Emily obviously doesn't. Educating oneself about flaws will help one determine a solution if possible or at least a way of coping with the flaw. If one cannot identify a problem in the first place a solution will never be a possibility. I have pointed out that Nordic women are often washed out, this is a flaw. I myself actually exhibit this flaw. I have very pale skin, and light eyelashes. If I had more color to my skin and darker eyelashes my attractiveness would actually significantly increase. I have to resort to mascara and sunless tanner to give myself a more colorful look which translates into a healthier more attractive look overall. My point is that Emily has not pointed out one Nordic flaw.
Your post above mentions that Nordic's have fine facial features. First of all, not all Nordics or Western Europeans have fine facial features. It is not uncommon to see Germans,English,French,etc. that do not have fine facial features. Also, you act as if Eastern Europeans do not have fine facial features. I personally do have fine facial features, and I am not Nordic although I half German. The farther up North you go, the more likely you will find Eastern Europeans with fine facial features. Russian,Czech, and Ukranian women for example have fine facial features on average. Besides, it is not like one cannot find fine facial features even beyond Europe. I have two friends straight from Lebanon that have fine facial features. I don't mean borderline fine facial features, I mean they have really small dainty refined features. I understand that truly are in the minority, but it goes to show that fine facial features exist outside of North and Western Europe. Might I add that diet seems to change a family's features over time. I see this firsthand in my family where my own parents have shorter,rounder and more stereotypical Eastern European faces than my sisters and I do. Our face shapes are significantly different than our parents or grandparents. Why is this? Isn't it interesting that our diet is significantly different because we have been raised in a totally different part of the world? However, this isn't just my observation. There are lots of studies that include the measurements of populations head sizes. One study concluded that with better nutrition European's faces, primarily Eastern Europeans faces were changing. The same study showed that increased nutrition in Asian countries was actually causing a face shape shift towards the stereotypical Asian face and head shape which extremely round and short in the back. Therefore, these things are not set in stone and nutrition and diet is changing in many countries.
There have also been cases where anthropolgists have been baffled with a population's head shape change suddenly or over time. There was a case like this in England, where the skull shape of a population had randomly changed. The best explanation was external factors or change of diet most likely due to external factors. In this case a mutation in genes was not responsible for the manipulation of the traditional skull shape.
Last but not least I disagree that Grace Kelly has an oval face. In many photos it appears much too wide. However, this is hardly the reason it significantly deters from a true oval face. Her jaw line is not rounded, and this is an important requirement for an oval face. Also, her cheekbones jut out more than average, and give her a diamond appearance. She may have a combination face type, and her rounded hairline and in certain photos slightly longer face length may make her appear to have a slightly balanced face. However, to most people, it is obvious her face is far from oval.
My apologies for the way the pictures just formatted, the top 2 (that you have to scroll sideways to see both) are Irish girs, the next two are Dutch girls, the two below those are German girls, followed by 2 pics of Danish girls, and the bottom two are of English girls. Emily has taken care of the Swedes!!
FYI: though this is usually said to be common knowledge, if you are unable to decide on you facial shape, then do the following. Pull all your hair back, look in a mirror and with a bar of soap, "trace" your facial shape. Step back, and Vioia! There's your facial shape. Most people do have a combination of facial shapes, but that crude assessment usually gives one a general idea.
I'm going to have to go with Emily on this one, Grace Kelly has a perfectly oval face, as does Charlize. No offense to anyone who disagrees. If one were a hairdresser, lets say, and had to do the "eyeball" assessment on facial shapes, one thing that is known by those professionals is that an oval face can generally carry off any style because of it's perfect proportions and symmetry. Charlize doesn't have a long oval face, but it is unmistakedly oval, and Grace kelley is known for it. Oval faces are described as "beautiful", or "elegant", whereas rounder, or diamond face shapes are more described as "cute" (that also depends on other factors). Square shaped faces tend to be described as "strong", "striking", etc.
Accusing Emily of picking on Eastern Europeans is hardly fair, when you've said that Nordic women have "piggish" noses, and did everything you could to try to present them in a negative light. She (Emily) showed you the variance of Nordic facial types, but one thing that must be pointed out, is that the finer the bone structure, the less dramaticly a strong jawline, or robust cheekbones would appear. Refined facial features are a hallmark of Northern European beauty. Thinking that Grace Kelly has robust features and looks Eastern European is absurd. And even if the examples of Nordic women you argue are "masculine", the fine bone structure nontheless makes them more attractive on average.
That being said, I too can see that there is beauty to be found in the faces of many Eastern Europeans. Yes, most of us realize that they excell in sports such as gymnastics, ballet (which is not a sport, but an example of alleged "flexability"), among others. North Europeans have their strong points in athletics as well.
I am of North European descent, complete with the "piggish" nose, pig skin, etc. Not the Halstatt, or Osterdal type, but a close "sub type". But I do see the beauty of all ethnicities, races, and so on. I just think that it's ok to say that on average, the Nordic type is by and large the most attracive, and feminine.
It seems like the thing to do is to pick on Emily, and Erik, constantly, when it just seems so counterproductive. If people are unhappy with what they read here, why do they insist on coming back? I doubt you're going to change their minds, as much as I doubt that they will change yours.
marylin monroe had a round face and she was 'the beauty' and yes just to let everyone know. I think that eastern european women and women of that descent wherever in the world are true women and a paragon of feminine beauty. They rae considered the most feminine beauties in the world. I htink most people consider softness in features as the true beauty of women and yes in that I would want to include the whole world just not a few north european women. The world over softness in features and face shape is considered beauty especially for women. i know that men are supposed to have more masculine face cuts and jaw lines......
Just to clarify, I do not believe that homosexuals have a right to get married in a Christian Church, or any religious congregation for that matter, and I have already stated that unequivocally. Even heterosexual couples don't have that right. Only the church itself has the authority to determine who they will or will not marry, and that right should never be infringed upon. "Marriage" as a word has nothing to do with gender but is defined as the intermingling of two substances into one. The practice that is generally referred to with the word "marriage," has traditionally been defined as a union of a man and a woman, but we can change the practice if we choose. However, homosexuals could only be married by the state and willing religious congregations. No religious group can be forced to marry anyone. For instance, even though I am a heterosexual, a Catholic priest may refuse to marry me because I am not Catholic, and I would have to accept that. I could, however, go to the court house and be married by a justice of the peace, and as long as the marriage is legal, the state could not deny me my marriage. A legal marriage is still a marriage even if it isn't a religious marriage. The fact that I have little to no respect for organized religion has nothing to do with it, because I have been talking about legal marriages, not religious ones.
I think civil unions are at the very least, a good compromise for the present. Now all that remains is making them available in all 50 states and making them commensurate with marriage.
Emily, I disagree. You picked biased photos to prove your point.
A) Charlize Theron is already aging in those photos. Face shape can change with age and it depends on the individual how it changes. Some people's round faces can become rounder and more robust, and this is common sense because with age comes mascunilization. However, some people's faces can lose a generous amount of fat and seem more elongated when in fact they are not.
B) This is not an oval face regardless of what you think. A round face does not have to be round as a basketball to be considered round.
Charlize Theron clearly has a round face. Most round faces are not as extreme as you would like to define them to be. According to your definition my face would be considered oval, and the reason I know my face is not oval is because I have to balance it out with hairstyles. A more balanced and oval face would not need any specific hairstyle to appear balanced and oval. In the photos above Charlize has balanced her face out with certain hairstyles. I have a face shape close to Drew Barrymore's, which appears to be even less round than Charlize's. I have to balance it nonetheless:
Drew also needs to balance her fact out with her hairstyles. Someone with a true oval face like Megan Fox clearly does not need to. Her hair can lay flat down her face and it will still look oval:
compare to charlize:
And Emily I just LOVE how you always try to associate any undesirable feature to Eastern Europeans. What I noticed about Eastern Europeans in the U.S. is how they differ from their parents in face shape. Their faces are more elongated. I believe this to be the result of diet. My face is significantly longer than my mother's face. My mother has a really short round face, but it looks good because it is feminine. All the photos you post up of round faces are on the mascunilized side, so naturally they will look bad. Stop picking on Eastern European girls. I already admitted that I agree Northern European women seem to be more masculine and on average more attractive. Although it is a close call between them and Southern European women. I do believe South Eastern European women are the least attractive out of the European women. This doesn't mean that can't change over time or that every woman from that area will automatically be unattractive. Besides I am proud of being Eastern European. I have a curvy body and am athletic at the same time not to mention naturally flexible, something I don't see often among Northern European women. I see Eastern European women and men do excel at sports more than any other European country. So I guess sometimes you can't have it all.
"It was said by "Visitor" (Emily), that the only reason she has been going on, ad nauseum, about grammar, etc., "
Don't falsely attribute this to me. I am not the person with whom you had the conversation about grammar. I think the topic is uninteresting and irrelevant, actually, but as I understand it it was you who brought it up first.
Erik:
Would you consider Katherine's face masculine? My face is close to this minus the high cheekbones. I'm still waiting for the response as to whether finger length truly has a relation to hormone levels. I want to know if I am feminine or masculine!
And yes I'm a natural blonde, it has darkened over the years though and I don't care if Emily doesn't believe me on that. I have no biases against pale skinned blondes, I happen to be one of them for God's sake.
So Barberella, what would you say my face shape is?
If you combined Katherine Heigl and Drew Barrymore's faces you'd get a face close to mine:
But my face is closer to Katherine's. It pretty scary how close though. But there are certain features I share with Drew, can't put my finger on them though. But yeah, my eye color is close to Katherines, except mine have hints of green in them making them hazel, but they are just as dark. And my cheekbones aren't that high, so my jaw and lower face don't look as long as Katherines. My nose is similar at the tip, but the bridge is slightly different. My nose bridge is less robust, ever so slightly thinner.
See, I think Katherine has a round face. So what would you classify her as?
We'll just agree to disagree on the face shape issue. I of course still think I'm right, but I usually will.
Looking at the Charlize pics again, Godis, take a look at the one near the top where her hair is pulled back and she is wearing the purple gown: that is oval, though slightly rounded. Do the same thing with the soap, but on your computer monitor. Oval, but slightly rounder. Grace Kelley has a more prominant, square jaw, but is also more oval than square. I assess people's facial shapes all day long....that doesn't mean that I'm THE expert, but I have a pretty good idea.....love and respect
While I will not say, explicitly, that people should or shouldn't race mix, as I don't want nor need ignorant comments leveled at me, one thing is certain: Heidi Klum's genes, her features, coloring, etc. are no longer there. You can still see them in her daughter, but her sons look black, will most likely indentify as black, so what difference does it make that Heidi's their mother at all? Yes, I realize, Heidi is very much in love with Seal, and I'm glad she's happy....but her genes are no longer relevant here. Her sons will not carry on her unique and "ethnic"(German) features. They most certainly are lost.
Once again, I'd like to reiterate my abslolute PRIDE in my Northern and Northwestern European heritage. These woman are not models, just girls out at clubs in various European cities. None of these photos were "cherry picked", it took me all of about 5 minutes to find these, and there are countless more that do a decent job of depicting their natural beauty.
Godis: Please don't take my comment as a personal attack. I have seen a lot of very attractive people from many parts of Europe, including, Romania. But just as you are proud of you heritage, I am proud of mine. The "piggish" nose I possess is one of the most "asked for" noses by plastic surgery patients, so I think that my nose is probably not all that hideous. I can see where there was some definite tension between you and Emily on the Ekatarina thread. I am not here to choose sides. She has however, made some valid points, and to be fair, so have you. As far as the Grace Kelley oval, or not(?) debate, Grace's face is primarily oval, I think, but she does have a stronger jaw, so there for, she may have a more squarish element. As far as facial shapes when smiling, when I smile, I still have an oval face, as the jaw (gonal) region still lies flat, but the muscles move the shape in such a way that one might say that it is heart or diamond shape. The best way to assess face shape is to NOT smile when making that evaluation.
It seems as though one immediately is defensive toward a commentator who takes a sympathetic stance towards Emily. I'm sorry if I've put you on the defensive by agreeing with her about some basic principles here. But my apreement with her does not mean that I don't wish to have intelligent conversations with others here also.
When attempting to post pics earlier, they got a little messed up in the way I formatted. I, too, wanted to show that Northern and North Western Europeans are beautiful, to me. And if that makes me a "bitch" like Emily, than I offer no apologies.
When I am less tired, I will post pics of forties, and fifties "pin-ups" to show what I truly find feminine and beautiful, for the modern ideal of fashion and beauty is appalling. Some will be photos, and some art.
And lastly, I don't believe that I said that Eastern Europeans couldn't have fine, or gracile feature, I'm sure a lot of them do, however, what I was noting was that the FREQUENCY of fine and gracile features will be greater in N. Europe. I did not say they'd be non-existant everywhere else.
As far as admitting flaws of Northern Europeans, as with any population with fair skin, people might want to be careful with the amount of sun exposure they get, as the risk of premature aging and skin cancer increases. And I'm sure it's safe to say that every ethnic group has flaws. Some have more than others, some have less. It's all relative.
She looks extremely similar to my one friend who is Romanian.
Erik,
I don't understand what you are saying with this. Are you saying that these women are sexier than the ones in your attractive women section?
If so, why are they more attractive? Or are they supposed to be less attractive?
What is more important to attractiveness femininity or sexiness? Can feminine women be sexy too? I am assuming the difference between the women above than the one's in the attractive women section is that the one's above are more mascunilized but still look good. Right?
You know, the more I read through these threads, the more I see, EMILY'S AN IDIOT, EMILY'S A RACIST, etc. If the basis of one's arguments is ad hominem attacks, and straw men left and right, then I hardly see how any of you who hurl these insults are any better than she is. Find reasonable debates, backed up with some kind of intelligable argument. And lets not take this so damn seriously....
anonymous: say what you will, but I don't believe I spoke for ALL non-Europeans, but there are a vast majority who do. Just check out the "Tyra Banks on Honesty" thread for further discussion of this. Tyra even admits that her hair is a weave because her natural hair would not have been "marketable" in the industry (modeling) that she had pursued. She also interrogates the Korean American woman, who got eyelid surgery (to look less Asian, as the woman admitted), on the "real" reason that she got the surgery. That real reason was to be more European looking. The rate of plastic surgery in Asian countries, particularly Korea, is astronomical. I'm assuming that you are non-white, and are taking offense because a white woman dares to say that the looks of those of her race are beautiful and worth preserving. There are countless sites on the net proclaiming Asian, Latin, Black Beauty,etc. and those sites are considered perfectly fine. Well I happen to believe that N. Europeans are beautiful just as they are, but I'm not supposed to say this. Too bad.
Emily, you need not thank me. I am only speaking what I believe is to be the truth, and we just so happen to agree. I guess now that I'm here, the hate spewing will be directed toward me instead! (Smile) :) I admire your honesty, even if no one else does.
I posted some pics on the self-esteem section of some more "normal" Northern and North West Europeans, however, the display of them is rather confusing, bear with me....I think it is a good representation of some of the other N. European nationalities, i.e. Irish, Dutch, German, Danish and English. Hope you'll appreciate those:)
And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Grace Kelly doesn't have a gorgeous face. Her face is admirable and anyone with that face type is very lucky. I am simply stating that her face is not oval. I don't find this to be a flaw. I believe that an oval face shape can get boring, however a face like Grace Kelly's will always be interesting,striking, and beautiful at the same time. She also has fine facial features, like nice eyes, a small nose, and nice lips. Therefore, she really has the whole package. The only thing she doesn't have is an oval face, and if she did have an oval face she would look like any other girl and would not be the icon she is today. And yes her cheeks jut out but that is a good thing. Sideways prominent cheeks either due to femininity or just genes makes one significantly attractive. Research proves this.
*Might I add that my two friends from Lebanon are actually sisters. They are not two random unrelated women from Lebanon, and so it is obvious why they share fine facial features in common.
Barbella:
I am aware of the pull your hair back and trace your face trick to determining face shape. I've done it before and my face does not come out a circle. It comes out an oval, and the reason is because almost no one's face is really a circle. That doesn't mean it is not round. It's not just the length of the face that determines whether it is round or oval, it is the length of the face in relation to the width of the face. The wider the face and shorter the length, the more it leans towards a round face. For a face to be fully balanced and considered an oval, the length of the face has to be at least one and a half times the width. Anything under that measurement is considered a round face, period. Only then is the face perfectly balanced when those measurements add up.
I can see how you believe Charlize Theron to have an oval shape. However, I don't believe her porportions are truly those of an oval, and although close, they don't cut it. Most round faces are close to oval faces, but they don't cut it. In many photos she is smiling, changing the shape of her face. Also, many times photos distort features. My face appears more elongated in photos than it does in reality. I don't understand why this happens, but it does. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens to celebrities as well. After all most people will tell you that celebrities look very different in reality than they do on our tv screens and in magazines. Even camera's during events can distort a celebrity's feautures because in Hollywood everything is designed to make everything seem more attractive.
I believe I have every right to call Emily out. Yes, I believe I called Nordic noses "piggish" and Nordic skin colors washed out. I have pointed out some very obvious flaws in a rude,undiplomatic, and plain insulting manner. However, they are good descriptions and I have not necessarily degraded any persons with my descriptions. I can tell you right now that many Romanians have what they call an "eagle" nose. Features are often described in relation to animals, the pig nose was the best way to describe a common Scandinavian nose. Although anyone can tell by the tone of my passage that I was trying to be mean, I don't believe it was a horrible insult. Many people believe pig noses to be cute and describe them that way, as pig noses. On the other hand Emily has not pointed out only the physical flaws of Eastern Europeans but has decided to portray them as cheap low lifes. Often times she relied on stereotypes that were not necessarily true and provided cherry picked photos to support these stereotypes. This created a false perception to any reader because they suggested that a whole ethnic group was a certain way. She labeled everyone in a country or part of the world as a certain way, leaving no room for the possibility that perhaps individuals in that group were not that way. She left no room for a reader to conclude that indeed there are attractive and civilized women in Eastern Europe. I believe that her photos are not accurate representations of any group's average attractiveness and behavior, including those of her beloved Scandinavians. In my opinion although Eastern European women have a higher frequency of round faces, broad faces, hooked noses, etc. than Northern European women, they do not on average have hooked noses and rugged coarse broad faces. Emily also decides to assign any undesirable features to Eastern European women and any desirable ones to Nordic women. It is obvious she is attacking Eastern Europeans when what she claims cannot possibly be so. Round faces are just as common in Nordic countries as in Eastern ones. The photos she constantly displays suggests this as well, although I don't believe those photos are a good representation of her country's attractiveness on average. The point is that even the photos she could find of attractive women from Scandinavia do not have a high frequency of women with oval faces, and instead exhibit women with combination face types, most commonly square and round actually.
I try to be an open minded person. I, like any other human being, have ego problems. However, I do try my best to set aside those personal issues and educate myself about the realities of the world I live in. I have readily admitted on this site, after a time, that Nordic women are more feminine and attractive on average. I don't like this, I am not Nordic. However, I will admit it because the facts are adding up. However, that doesn't mean I won't recognize flaws as well. I believe it is important to recognize flaws, while Emily obviously doesn't. Educating oneself about flaws will help one determine a solution if possible or at least a way of coping with the flaw. If one cannot identify a problem in the first place a solution will never be a possibility. I have pointed out that Nordic women are often washed out, this is a flaw. I myself actually exhibit this flaw. I have very pale skin, and light eyelashes. If I had more color to my skin and darker eyelashes my attractiveness would actually significantly increase. I have to resort to mascara and sunless tanner to give myself a more colorful look which translates into a healthier more attractive look overall. My point is that Emily has not pointed out one Nordic flaw.
Your post above mentions that Nordic's have fine facial features. First of all, not all Nordics or Western Europeans have fine facial features. It is not uncommon to see Germans,English,French,etc. that do not have fine facial features. Also, you act as if Eastern Europeans do not have fine facial features. I personally do have fine facial features, and I am not Nordic although I half German. The farther up North you go, the more likely you will find Eastern Europeans with fine facial features. Russian,Czech, and Ukranian women for example have fine facial features on average. Besides, it is not like one cannot find fine facial features even beyond Europe. I have two friends straight from Lebanon that have fine facial features. I don't mean borderline fine facial features, I mean they have really small dainty refined features. I understand that truly are in the minority, but it goes to show that fine facial features exist outside of North and Western Europe. Might I add that diet seems to change a family's features over time. I see this firsthand in my family where my own parents have shorter,rounder and more stereotypical Eastern European faces than my sisters and I do. Our face shapes are significantly different than our parents or grandparents. Why is this? Isn't it interesting that our diet is significantly different because we have been raised in a totally different part of the world? However, this isn't just my observation. There are lots of studies that include the measurements of populations head sizes. One study concluded that with better nutrition European's faces, primarily Eastern Europeans faces were changing. The same study showed that increased nutrition in Asian countries was actually causing a face shape shift towards the stereotypical Asian face and head shape which extremely round and short in the back. Therefore, these things are not set in stone and nutrition and diet is changing in many countries.
There have also been cases where anthropolgists have been baffled with a population's head shape change suddenly or over time. There was a case like this in England, where the skull shape of a population had randomly changed. The best explanation was external factors or change of diet most likely due to external factors. In this case a mutation in genes was not responsible for the manipulation of the traditional skull shape.
Last but not least I disagree that Grace Kelly has an oval face. In many photos it appears much too wide. However, this is hardly the reason it significantly deters from a true oval face. Her jaw line is not rounded, and this is an important requirement for an oval face. Also, her cheekbones jut out more than average, and give her a diamond appearance. She may have a combination face type, and her rounded hairline and in certain photos slightly longer face length may make her appear to have a slightly balanced face. However, to most people, it is obvious her face is far from oval.
My apologies for the way the pictures just formatted, the top 2 (that you have to scroll sideways to see both) are Irish girs, the next two are Dutch girls, the two below those are German girls, followed by 2 pics of Danish girls, and the bottom two are of English girls. Emily has taken care of the Swedes!!
src="http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/gunsig/germanbeergirls.jpg" border="0" alt="german girls Pictures, Images and Photos"/>
FYI: though this is usually said to be common knowledge, if you are unable to decide on you facial shape, then do the following. Pull all your hair back, look in a mirror and with a bar of soap, "trace" your facial shape. Step back, and Vioia! There's your facial shape. Most people do have a combination of facial shapes, but that crude assessment usually gives one a general idea.
I'm going to have to go with Emily on this one, Grace Kelly has a perfectly oval face, as does Charlize. No offense to anyone who disagrees. If one were a hairdresser, lets say, and had to do the "eyeball" assessment on facial shapes, one thing that is known by those professionals is that an oval face can generally carry off any style because of it's perfect proportions and symmetry. Charlize doesn't have a long oval face, but it is unmistakedly oval, and Grace kelley is known for it. Oval faces are described as "beautiful", or "elegant", whereas rounder, or diamond face shapes are more described as "cute" (that also depends on other factors). Square shaped faces tend to be described as "strong", "striking", etc.
Accusing Emily of picking on Eastern Europeans is hardly fair, when you've said that Nordic women have "piggish" noses, and did everything you could to try to present them in a negative light. She (Emily) showed you the variance of Nordic facial types, but one thing that must be pointed out, is that the finer the bone structure, the less dramaticly a strong jawline, or robust cheekbones would appear. Refined facial features are a hallmark of Northern European beauty. Thinking that Grace Kelly has robust features and looks Eastern European is absurd. And even if the examples of Nordic women you argue are "masculine", the fine bone structure nontheless makes them more attractive on average.
That being said, I too can see that there is beauty to be found in the faces of many Eastern Europeans. Yes, most of us realize that they excell in sports such as gymnastics, ballet (which is not a sport, but an example of alleged "flexability"), among others. North Europeans have their strong points in athletics as well.
I am of North European descent, complete with the "piggish" nose, pig skin, etc. Not the Halstatt, or Osterdal type, but a close "sub type". But I do see the beauty of all ethnicities, races, and so on. I just think that it's ok to say that on average, the Nordic type is by and large the most attracive, and feminine.
It seems like the thing to do is to pick on Emily, and Erik, constantly, when it just seems so counterproductive. If people are unhappy with what they read here, why do they insist on coming back? I doubt you're going to change their minds, as much as I doubt that they will change yours.
marylin monroe had a round face and she was 'the beauty' and yes just to let everyone know. I think that eastern european women and women of that descent wherever in the world are true women and a paragon of feminine beauty. They rae considered the most feminine beauties in the world. I htink most people consider softness in features as the true beauty of women and yes in that I would want to include the whole world just not a few north european women. The world over softness in features and face shape is considered beauty especially for women. i know that men are supposed to have more masculine face cuts and jaw lines......
Emily,
Just to clarify, I do not believe that homosexuals have a right to get married in a Christian Church, or any religious congregation for that matter, and I have already stated that unequivocally. Even heterosexual couples don't have that right. Only the church itself has the authority to determine who they will or will not marry, and that right should never be infringed upon. "Marriage" as a word has nothing to do with gender but is defined as the intermingling of two substances into one. The practice that is generally referred to with the word "marriage," has traditionally been defined as a union of a man and a woman, but we can change the practice if we choose. However, homosexuals could only be married by the state and willing religious congregations. No religious group can be forced to marry anyone. For instance, even though I am a heterosexual, a Catholic priest may refuse to marry me because I am not Catholic, and I would have to accept that. I could, however, go to the court house and be married by a justice of the peace, and as long as the marriage is legal, the state could not deny me my marriage. A legal marriage is still a marriage even if it isn't a religious marriage. The fact that I have little to no respect for organized religion has nothing to do with it, because I have been talking about legal marriages, not religious ones.
I think civil unions are at the very least, a good compromise for the present. Now all that remains is making them available in all 50 states and making them commensurate with marriage.
What I find interesting is how you find Grace Kelly to be perfection when in truth her face is just as robust as many Eastern European faces:
I do agree that Grace Kelly is gorgeous, but she doesn't have the perfect oval face. Most people don't.
Sorry I meant Northern European women seem to be more feminine* and attractive on average.
One of the photos is down so here is the comparison again:
compare also to drew barrymore who also has a round face, along with Marilyn Monroe as well:
People's face shape also changes when they smile. My face looks closer to oval like Drew's when she smiles, but it is still ROUND!
Marilyn Monroe, round face:
Emily, I disagree. You picked biased photos to prove your point.
A) Charlize Theron is already aging in those photos. Face shape can change with age and it depends on the individual how it changes. Some people's round faces can become rounder and more robust, and this is common sense because with age comes mascunilization. However, some people's faces can lose a generous amount of fat and seem more elongated when in fact they are not.
B) This is not an oval face regardless of what you think. A round face does not have to be round as a basketball to be considered round.
Charlize Theron clearly has a round face. Most round faces are not as extreme as you would like to define them to be. According to your definition my face would be considered oval, and the reason I know my face is not oval is because I have to balance it out with hairstyles. A more balanced and oval face would not need any specific hairstyle to appear balanced and oval. In the photos above Charlize has balanced her face out with certain hairstyles. I have a face shape close to Drew Barrymore's, which appears to be even less round than Charlize's. I have to balance it nonetheless:
Drew also needs to balance her fact out with her hairstyles. Someone with a true oval face like Megan Fox clearly does not need to. Her hair can lay flat down her face and it will still look oval:
compare to charlize:
And Emily I just LOVE how you always try to associate any undesirable feature to Eastern Europeans. What I noticed about Eastern Europeans in the U.S. is how they differ from their parents in face shape. Their faces are more elongated. I believe this to be the result of diet. My face is significantly longer than my mother's face. My mother has a really short round face, but it looks good because it is feminine. All the photos you post up of round faces are on the mascunilized side, so naturally they will look bad. Stop picking on Eastern European girls. I already admitted that I agree Northern European women seem to be more masculine and on average more attractive. Although it is a close call between them and Southern European women. I do believe South Eastern European women are the least attractive out of the European women. This doesn't mean that can't change over time or that every woman from that area will automatically be unattractive. Besides I am proud of being Eastern European. I have a curvy body and am athletic at the same time not to mention naturally flexible, something I don't see often among Northern European women. I see Eastern European women and men do excel at sports more than any other European country. So I guess sometimes you can't have it all.
"It was said by "Visitor" (Emily), that the only reason she has been going on, ad nauseum, about grammar, etc., "
Don't falsely attribute this to me. I am not the person with whom you had the conversation about grammar. I think the topic is uninteresting and irrelevant, actually, but as I understand it it was you who brought it up first.
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