I'm confused as to whether I am masculine or feminine. Before it all felt good because I seemed to fit the criteria for what is feminine, and femininity equals beauty, and that meant I was beautiful YAY! Yes, in all honesty swear on anything and everything I do have an hourglass figure. I have a round face, or what you would call an oval face LOL I have big round eyes. I have small dainty lips, full bottom lip, normal upper lip. I have low cheekbones and am only 5'31/2. I have small hands and feet. These in all honesty are feminine features. People describe as cute, but never sexy or anything like that. Which I wish they would.
Then:
I took this test for this "experiment" they were doing at school. It was about sexes and how they think differently. I scored 100% on the spatial intelligence test. Females generally score pretty low on this test lol, males score high, but I scored higher than the average male. Then they measured our finger lengths. It turns out my finger lengths mean I have higher testosterone levels. Then it hit me, that overall I am more athletic than other girls and although I am good at girl stuff, I am awesome at guy stuff lol I even have a pretty high sex drive. lol
Anyways, it baffles me. Maybe there is something off about me that I am not noticing. Maybe I really am masculinized. I don't have a masculine face, just a lot like the average girls Erik posts up. I certaintly dont have a masculine body. Plus I'm pretty good at determining things and paying attention to details. I am an artist which is how I ended up on this site. I love to draw, and I was good at drawing ever since I was a kid. So this stuff is important to me! I look feminine, I feel feminine.But on the other hand, everything else points to: you should be a masculinized girl.
It's confusing because one minute you feel good that your type of beauty is being acknowledged, and then maybe you really aren't feminine. It doesn't feel good and you become obsessed. Because I am a perfectionist and although I know I am not perfect, I will do all I can to be the best person I can be inside and out. So yes, I ask Erik for advice. If I turn out to be masculine, then I want to know what I can do to become more feminine. Simple as that. I see nothing wrong with analyzing myself and trying to get feedback. I learn what I can so I can use it to my advantage. It doesn't matter if I don't like what I hear, it'll annoy me and put me in denial for a bit, but then I'll take it and make the best use of any information I obtain. Better to have that knowledge than be ignorant to it. Besides, I really am just extremely confused about myself right now. For so long I really believed I was a feminine person, until I took that test that suggests otherwise. Even though from head to toe, nothing suggests that.
My feminine vs. masculine features are also kind of extreme. So they don't really meet in the middle anywhere. Like when I was a kid, one minute I was playing with barbies and dolls, the next I was playing baseball with the boys. Besides, it all has to do with fertility and health too. Maybe I think I am healthy and fertile, because I am pseudo-feminine, but if I am not I should take the right steps to become more healthy, fertile, and feminine. I am a bit of a drama queen and I do freak out over little things, but if it bothers you ignore it. Similarly, Erik can ignore my questions and comments, and many times he does so there.
Why do I criticize Erik sometimes?
Because I have noticed, that although his site is very helpful and has some very good points, and has convinced me of certain things, like North Americans are on average more feminine and attractive, I find inconsistencies at the same time. Take for example Angelina Jolie:
Young:
Older:
Angelina Jolie is attractive, but I don't know why. I don't think she is all that feminine. She has some boobs, and a few curves, but she is also tall, wide shouldered, and she has extreme facial angles. I don't think Angelina has a real hourglass either, her waist should be more clinched in. Anyways, compare her to a high fashion model Erik lables as looking manly and having robust facial features. Compare to Angelina. Although the model is less attractive than Angelina, it's not because Angelina has a softer face or finer facial features:
Similarly, he even put Keeley Hazel into the attractive women's section. However, Keeley Hazel's backside looks no better than any high fashion model's:
And just to be fair, since it is obvious in the photo above Keeley Hazel may have some back fat, we will get a VS model who is obviously on the chunky side at this point:
Karolina Kurkova same model as last photo above only chunky:
Erik also insists that Megan Fox has an hourglass shape. He claims photos can be biased. However, I believe his photos of Megan with an hourglass are more biased, because mine include Megan in a swimsuit while none of his do:
I agree the women above are attractive. Erik claims that every woman will have masculine elements. I think the women above are attractive, but nonetheless pretty masculinized. Keeley Hazel's breasts are the result of her big boob genes, not her femininity. Her backside and wide shoulders don't add up in my opinion. I understand feminine women can have masculine features due to genes and not hormone levels, and visa versa. But, I don't buy that with Hazel. I think she is masculinized. I also just feel like even a lot of the "attractive women" section mumbo jumbo doesn't add up either.
Anyways, I'm tired, I'll write more tomorrow...
Oh and Emily, I don't spend that much time posting. I post in between breaks when I am doing homework or something online. It takes me like 2 minutes to type my thoughts out and like 5 minutes to put the photos together, tops if there are a lot. You act like I spend my life on here when I don't. I dont proofread my stuff. I just type it out and leave.
Btw Godis, no not Emily, I promise. I answered another post of yours on the Miranda/broad nosed topic, and I think that you'll have no problem discerning that I am not Emily.
Anonymous, if all you can do is call me and Emily "Joker", than post unintelligible gibberish that I absolutely cannot understand, than just stop, honestly, I really can barely understand your posts. If English isn't your first language, than learn it. It's not Emily's either, but her posts are more coherrant than most peoples. Drama queen....that's cute.
People please! I am an American hairdresser from the Great Lakes area. That's as specific as I'll get. Emily is a Swede, from, duh! Sweden. We are not, the same. We may have similar opinions on a great many topics, but no, not the same. Is every detractor here, every last person who bashes Erik and Emily the same person? Doubtful. I don't know about you, Emily, but I find this hilarious!
Anyway, I don't understand why people cannot accept that there might be more than one person on this site who happen to care about the same issues. There are hundreds of people who post here, opposing our views, right? Or maybe you are all the same? It does sound absurd, now doesn't it?
This comes a little late in the discussion, and I'm referring to the pics that Emily posted of "typical" Swedes, I believe them to be true. Whenever my father travels to Europe on business, he always makes a stop in Stockholm, as it's his favorite European city, along with Dublin, Ireland. He has shown me pics of the city, always with pretty girls in the fore, or background. Anyone who's been to Stockholm would say the same.
Comparing Caroline Winberg to Gemma Ward is a joke. Gemma looks like a space alien compared to her. If any of you have actually been reading this site, which I seriously doubt, it has been observed that high fashion models, ones's comparable to Carloline, tend to have a lot more definite i.e. masculine features. Saying that Caroline looks like most Swedish women is like saying that Ashwairya Rai looks like most Indians. The only difference being that Carloline has a kind of beauty that is comparable to the general Swedish population. The general population in India, however, has women that look drasticly different than Ashwairya, meaning that A. Rai is the exception rather than the rule. The beauty of Caroline, is typical of the beauty that you would see every day in Northern/North Western Europe.
Hope this clarifys. Caroline's features are exagerated, as are most fashion models, this is why they are sought out by modeling agencies. Caroline is beautiful nonetheless, and Gemma can't even compare to her.
By the way Godis, as far as diet goes, when it comes to longevity, not necessarily beauty, I have read that Mediterranian (olive oil based foods), and some Asian diets, are the healthiest. Scandinavian diets are similar to other Northern/Western European diets, and their life expectancy stats are still very high. Sweden, for example, has a very low infant mortality rate, and life expectancy is slightly higher than that of Ireland, Britain, etc. I don't think, though, that their diet has much to do with their overall appearance, as far as bone structure and coloring. Anthropological literature indicates that the indigenous peoples of N. Europe have had their distinctive facial/skeletal shapes for thousands of years. Although evolution plays a part, at one time, Scandinavians had very different features than those on the British Isles, but the Vikings travelled to much of Europe, and a lot of their features "inter-mingled" with others, so that over time, their became many Nordic "sub-races". Most of my family, for example, is Keltic Nordic, as well as Borreby. The coloring of our family is much the same as Scandinavians, but our features differ, except for the nose, we all have the "Nordic nose", which I definitely believe to be a good thing.
So as far as diet, being the reason for the looks of Scandinavians, that may be a small part, but I don't believe it plays the most significant part. It really is just good genes. At one time, the Vikings had many struggles, which is why they travelled to other parts of Europe. They had very good survival skills, and did what they had to do as a race, in order to prevail.
I do believe that diet plays a significant role, as can be attributed to the average heighths of some countries, that are increasing. Scandinavians have always been known to be taller than other Europeans, but then again, there are some tribes in Africa, where the average males are extremely tall, but one could probably assume, that diet does not attribute to this.
I am in no way a scientist, just a person that is very interested in her personal racial and ethnic heritage. I do enjoy reading the articles, not just "scanning" them. Godis, this is a very fascinating topic-European Anthropology, and I'd actually read it, instead of scanning it.
By the way, Erik, if I've been misinformed and have posted any inacuracies, I'd appreciate clarification. Thank you.
Emily, on another thread, I had posted a reply to "booty man", who said that Northern Europeans had flat backsides, not sure if you saw it: A Swedish girl....
Not the over-exaggerated "booty", but a nice, shapely, feminine and rounded behind. The kind that most men, including mine find ideal.
And this one of Malin's one of my favorites, paying homage to the forties pin-up girl, an era where it was still appreciated for a woman to actually look like a WOMAN!!!
Malin with very avant gard make-up, showing off her stunning bone structure....
These are, to me PERFECT faces, they may not all be "oval", a lot of them won't be, or will be variants....Malin Akerman
not to mention that she's extremely feminine, at least as far as I can see...
Veronica Lake....
Nicole Kidman.....
Michelle Pfeiffer.....
Elizabeth Taylor....
Notice the variance of face shapes, ethnicities, coloring, etc. The concept of beauty of subjective, but I'd be suprised to find anyone who'd doubt these woman are extremely lovely, masculine or not.....
By the way Godis: the picture of K. Heigl, where you literally outline the bottom of her face shows that it is OVAL. I am not going to continue to argue this, as you've already stated that you will always believe you are right. Emily and I have now shown you countless examples, but it seems that because you don't like Emily, and probably don't like me now, you will abandon all logic to show that you are "right", even when it's glaringly obvious that you don't know how to properly assess face shapes.
Emily, thank you, I think that you and I must have at least a basic understanding of spatial dimensions and face shape. I agree that round shapes can also be beautiful, as you've shown. I tried to appease godis in explaining to her that "oval" is a very broad description. Thanks so much again for helping me clarify this to her, but I don't know if it will do any good. The examples you used to describe the various face shapes are more accurate than the one's I tried to use. Godis said that she will always believe she's right, but I think anyone reading this post will see that the pics you and I used prove the case. The photo I used of Catherine Zeta Jones looks as it may be photoshopped or perhaps taken after some amount of weight loss, as I agree with you, her face is round for the most part.
I did read that she said "bitch I hope your nose gets broke by a fist" (I was paraphrasing), it seemed apparent even then, that there was some self esteem issues, as she wouldn't have become so incensed unless something there struck a nerve.
I appreciate the honesty you've posted here. I think someone said on another thread, "I'd begun to doubt the fortitude of white's", and I had also begun to have my doubts.
I mean no disrespect to anyone who's taken offense to anything I may have said, but why come here and lie? Why try to soothe the sensitive feelings of those with inferioity complexes? That's not why I come here, and from what I've gathered from the bulk of your posts, it's not the reason you do either. You seem to be a confident young woman who's here for the same reason as me: to discuss the looks of woman on an open forum, one that (for once) focuses on the beauty of Northern Europeans. Though I'm not a Swede, my father, who has visited Stockholm on several occasions, has said that the women are so beautiful, that he considered the notion of moving there, but admitted he'd get nothing done, as he'd be too busy staring at what he describes as "endless beauty".
I'm not a full-blooded Nordic, but as I said elsewhere, very proud to be in the club.
Godis: the more I read what you describe as oval, I think you are referring to long, oval shaped. As Emily and I have explained, there are many variants of "oval". A "round" face is robust, with a strong jaw and when moving upward, even more prominant cheekbones, hence, a round shape. Drew Barrymore, as an adult, has a short, oval face.
Here is a square:
heart shape....
oval/round...
oval/heart...
round/heart.....
The woman in the previous post, Angelina, Meg, Nicole, Audrey, and Bettie are also variants. You'll notice that bangs will "shorten" the look of the face, making Audrey's and Bettie's look more heart shaped.
Sorry Barberella if you are really not Emily. I don't think you and her have anything in common, except your writing style. Again, I don't think you are anything like Emily. You are mature, you try to see other points of view and keep an open mind, and you stick to your opinions and points in a respectful manner. Unlike Emily and sometimes even me LOL
But, your writing style is sooo similar, it is driving me crazy. I don't know if it is a Swedish thing, or if Emily is playing two people, which doesn't make sense. However, I SWEAR your writing styles are soo similar its scary.
Why are Northern European men more masculine and Northern European women more feminine on average? Why is the gap between feminine and masculine bigger? What did they do differently in terms of natural selection that caused this?
Because if the masculine man chose the feminine women, it doesn't matter they would still get only average sons. If an average male chose a masculine woman, their daughter would be average. If a feminine man chose a feminine woman, their son would be pretty feminine.
The way I see it, it would all just create a lot of average, if they followed the general rules. So what rules did they follow? How did they develop to have more masculine men and more feminine woman?
I'm going to come back and say this bothers me. I know I commented on this post already, but it troubles me. If you are a feminine woman, you will have beautiful daughters but your sons will be probably just ok, or just weak looking. If you are a masculine woman, you will have the son that every woman won't be able to resist, but you will have the daughter that no man wants to go near. If you are average, you will have average sons and daughters.
So, good looking people are just very lucky. Average people are just the norm. And ugly people just got screwed.
Great. Life sucks.
I want to have daughters and sons and if one is attractive the other won't be!? That just sucks.
So, Erik,
What do you think about research that indicates a feminine woman is more likely to have daughters, a masculine woman is more likely to have sons, and average woman are meant to have both sons and daughters?
The idea is that each type of woman is designed to raise a certain type of child. A feminine woman may have trouble handling routy boys because it is most likely not in her nature, however a more masculinized woman can handle routy boys. On the other hand a feminine woman will be more gentle, one suited for raising daughters. An average woman can handle average kids.
Also, how does this problem get solved, or is it supposed to be this way?
What is the goal of nature?
A. To create averaged out human beings
B. To create the most optimally attractive human beings
Does attraction really have a good correlation to fertility, intelligence, health?
and I agree white people get called racist if they have any pride. But I think pride is stupid anyways. Everyone needs to have pride in who they are and what they are, but people shouldn't take it to the extreme. I have racists in my family actually, but I'm not one. And don't even talk about gay rights to my parents, they are extremely anti-gay,while I could care less what people do with eachother.
I thought I should repost my comment since I forgot to write my name on it.
"The whole "Erik I need you to tell me if I'm masculine or feminine because of my finger length" thing is bordering in hysteria. Who cares?"
You are right. It is hysteria, and it is coming from a disturbed person, I believe. The incredible thing is that she is constantly offending Erik and posts negative comments about him, some are really attack posts more than anything else.
She apparently cannot stand his view on femininity, and his preferences, so she constantly bashes him here, and yet at the same time she wants his opinion on HER looks, and she wants him to call her feminine even though he hasn't even seen a photo of her, instead asking him to evaluate her on the basis of her being a cross between Drew Barrymore and Katherine Heigl. LOL
Godis;
"I'm obsessed with my finger length"
We know... Do they let you out full-time or do you have to check in for the night?
Barberella;
"I haven't offered any physical descriptions of myself because I'm very confident in my looks and femininity. Of course I have certain traits that deviate from the "ultimate" feminine, but I am extremely feminine and good looking overall. I won't go running to the mirror every time I read something on this blog that may contradict a "feminine" ideal, because I am FEMININE OVERALL. And that's what's important."
This is what a pretty girl sounds like. :)
I'm not saying that one has to have full confidence all the time. However, I do think that if you have to measure your finger in order to find out if you are feminine, and compare photos of movie stars and ask for opinions non-stop for months on an internet site - instead of talking to your family and friends - you have serious issues.
Such a person is most likely also misrepresenting herself, since very feminine and pretty girls very seldom look so desperately for approval on the internet. She gets that kind of feed-back in real life.
"The whole "Erik I need you to tell me if I'm masculine or feminine because of my finger length" thing is bordering in hysteria. Who cares?"
You are right. It is hysteria, and it is coming from a disturbed person, I believe. The incredible thing is that she is constantly offending Erik and posts negative comments about him, some are really attack posts more than anything else.
She apparently cannot stand his view on femininity, and his preferences, so she constantly bashes him here, and yet at the same time she wants his opinion on HER looks, and she wants him to call her feminine even though he hasn't even seen a photo of her, instead asking him to evaluate her on the basis of her being a cross between Drew Barrymore and Katherine Heigl. LOL
Godis;
"I'm obsessed with my finger length"
We know... Do they let you out full-time or do you have to check in for the night?
Barberella;
"I haven't offered any physical descriptions of myself because I'm very confident in my looks and femininity. Of course I have certain traits that deviate from the "ultimate" feminine, but I am extremely feminine and good looking overall. I won't go running to the mirror every time I read something on this blog that may contradict a "feminine" ideal, because I am FEMININE OVERALL. And that's what's important."
This is what a pretty girl sounds like. :)
I'm not saying that one has to have full confidence all the time. However, I do think that if you have to measure your finger in order to find out if you are feminine, and compare photos of movie stars and ask for opinions non-stop for months on an internet site - instead of talking to your family and friends - you have serious issues.
Such a person is most likely also misrepresenting herself, since very feminine and pretty girls very seldom look so desperately for approval on the internet. She gets that kind of feed-back in real life.
"How exactly have I bitten the bait when youve expressed pride in your nationality/race, what bait is to be bitten?"
Barberella is right. As soon as a white person expresses pride in their race/achievements/looks it is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. You immediately get attacked for it, aggressively. I have seen the very same thing many times. It is something whites notice often. There are unacceptable different standards for us than for others.
Black pride...great.
Asian pride...excellent.
Latin pride...cool.
White pride....................................huh? Racist!
And wait, Ekaterina has fine facial features, despite her nose bump. If you were to break your nose I would hope it would turn extremely big and robust.
When I claimed round faces were undesirable, I meant photos you posted. They were always robust and extreme round faces. I have a round face, and I hardly would call my face shape undesirable, because its not.
Plus, yes I do wish that you get a hooked nose. You constantly make fun of people with hooked noses like Ekaterina, and I think you deserve one to see what it feels like and to be vulnerable to people just like you. I think that anyone that makes fun of a feature to the extent you make fun of hooked noses deserves to live with that feature. And you act like I wished you harm to the extent you could die or go to the hospital. Many people break their noses, I think you'd live and learn a good lesson too.
Sometimes pain makes us grow. And I wasn't actually serious about that. But if that scenario were to occur, I think it'd be a blessing disguised as a curse because it may make you more sensitive to people that are not born perfect.
link | Submitted by Barberella on Sat, 08/01/2009 - 01:00.
"And hell no, I don't want nor need your approval. It's just that you, and the likes of you, are SO predictable, biting the bait as soon as a white person expresses pride in her nationality."
How exactly have I bitten the bait when youve expressed pride in your nationality/race, what bait is to be bitten? when if you were an intelligent reader you would have read and understood that I clearly expressed no dissatisfaction at your having pride in your race/nationality "You can believe what you like you are free to hold onto your beliefs" is what I wrote. Dont tell me you understand what that means?. Wise up Joker that game wont work anymore. For all the "white people" you harp on about europeans have never been and never will be known as the whitest people in the world.LOL.
"Are they, anonymous? That's utter foolishness"
Oh please wise up you drama queen.
"And anonymous, if no offense was taken, why respond to either post? Obviously, something struck a nerve."
I was responding to a comment and your evidence for something supposedly having "struck a nerve" and "offence taken" is " "anonymous, if no offense was taken, why respond to either post? Obviously, something struck a nerve" Ive answered both. Nothing has struck a nerve with me but I know something has clearly struck a nerve with you and I know what it is too.LOL. Tata.
Yes Emily,
I'm confused as to whether I am masculine or feminine. Before it all felt good because I seemed to fit the criteria for what is feminine, and femininity equals beauty, and that meant I was beautiful YAY! Yes, in all honesty swear on anything and everything I do have an hourglass figure. I have a round face, or what you would call an oval face LOL I have big round eyes. I have small dainty lips, full bottom lip, normal upper lip. I have low cheekbones and am only 5'31/2. I have small hands and feet. These in all honesty are feminine features. People describe as cute, but never sexy or anything like that. Which I wish they would.
Then:
I took this test for this "experiment" they were doing at school. It was about sexes and how they think differently. I scored 100% on the spatial intelligence test. Females generally score pretty low on this test lol, males score high, but I scored higher than the average male. Then they measured our finger lengths. It turns out my finger lengths mean I have higher testosterone levels. Then it hit me, that overall I am more athletic than other girls and although I am good at girl stuff, I am awesome at guy stuff lol I even have a pretty high sex drive. lol
Anyways, it baffles me. Maybe there is something off about me that I am not noticing. Maybe I really am masculinized. I don't have a masculine face, just a lot like the average girls Erik posts up. I certaintly dont have a masculine body. Plus I'm pretty good at determining things and paying attention to details. I am an artist which is how I ended up on this site. I love to draw, and I was good at drawing ever since I was a kid. So this stuff is important to me! I look feminine, I feel feminine.But on the other hand, everything else points to: you should be a masculinized girl.
It's confusing because one minute you feel good that your type of beauty is being acknowledged, and then maybe you really aren't feminine. It doesn't feel good and you become obsessed. Because I am a perfectionist and although I know I am not perfect, I will do all I can to be the best person I can be inside and out. So yes, I ask Erik for advice. If I turn out to be masculine, then I want to know what I can do to become more feminine. Simple as that. I see nothing wrong with analyzing myself and trying to get feedback. I learn what I can so I can use it to my advantage. It doesn't matter if I don't like what I hear, it'll annoy me and put me in denial for a bit, but then I'll take it and make the best use of any information I obtain. Better to have that knowledge than be ignorant to it. Besides, I really am just extremely confused about myself right now. For so long I really believed I was a feminine person, until I took that test that suggests otherwise. Even though from head to toe, nothing suggests that.
My feminine vs. masculine features are also kind of extreme. So they don't really meet in the middle anywhere. Like when I was a kid, one minute I was playing with barbies and dolls, the next I was playing baseball with the boys. Besides, it all has to do with fertility and health too. Maybe I think I am healthy and fertile, because I am pseudo-feminine, but if I am not I should take the right steps to become more healthy, fertile, and feminine. I am a bit of a drama queen and I do freak out over little things, but if it bothers you ignore it. Similarly, Erik can ignore my questions and comments, and many times he does so there.
Why do I criticize Erik sometimes?
Because I have noticed, that although his site is very helpful and has some very good points, and has convinced me of certain things, like North Americans are on average more feminine and attractive, I find inconsistencies at the same time. Take for example Angelina Jolie:
Young:
Older:
Angelina Jolie is attractive, but I don't know why. I don't think she is all that feminine. She has some boobs, and a few curves, but she is also tall, wide shouldered, and she has extreme facial angles. I don't think Angelina has a real hourglass either, her waist should be more clinched in. Anyways, compare her to a high fashion model Erik lables as looking manly and having robust facial features. Compare to Angelina. Although the model is less attractive than Angelina, it's not because Angelina has a softer face or finer facial features:
Similarly, he even put Keeley Hazel into the attractive women's section. However, Keeley Hazel's backside looks no better than any high fashion model's:
And just to be fair, since it is obvious in the photo above Keeley Hazel may have some back fat, we will get a VS model who is obviously on the chunky side at this point:
Karolina Kurkova same model as last photo above only chunky:
Erik also insists that Megan Fox has an hourglass shape. He claims photos can be biased. However, I believe his photos of Megan with an hourglass are more biased, because mine include Megan in a swimsuit while none of his do:
I agree the women above are attractive. Erik claims that every woman will have masculine elements. I think the women above are attractive, but nonetheless pretty masculinized. Keeley Hazel's breasts are the result of her big boob genes, not her femininity. Her backside and wide shoulders don't add up in my opinion. I understand feminine women can have masculine features due to genes and not hormone levels, and visa versa. But, I don't buy that with Hazel. I think she is masculinized. I also just feel like even a lot of the "attractive women" section mumbo jumbo doesn't add up either.
Anyways, I'm tired, I'll write more tomorrow...
Oh and Emily, I don't spend that much time posting. I post in between breaks when I am doing homework or something online. It takes me like 2 minutes to type my thoughts out and like 5 minutes to put the photos together, tops if there are a lot. You act like I spend my life on here when I don't. I dont proofread my stuff. I just type it out and leave.
Btw Godis, no not Emily, I promise. I answered another post of yours on the Miranda/broad nosed topic, and I think that you'll have no problem discerning that I am not Emily.
Anonymous, if all you can do is call me and Emily "Joker", than post unintelligible gibberish that I absolutely cannot understand, than just stop, honestly, I really can barely understand your posts. If English isn't your first language, than learn it. It's not Emily's either, but her posts are more coherrant than most peoples. Drama queen....that's cute.
People please! I am an American hairdresser from the Great Lakes area. That's as specific as I'll get. Emily is a Swede, from, duh! Sweden. We are not, the same. We may have similar opinions on a great many topics, but no, not the same. Is every detractor here, every last person who bashes Erik and Emily the same person? Doubtful. I don't know about you, Emily, but I find this hilarious!
Anyway, I don't understand why people cannot accept that there might be more than one person on this site who happen to care about the same issues. There are hundreds of people who post here, opposing our views, right? Or maybe you are all the same? It does sound absurd, now doesn't it?
This comes a little late in the discussion, and I'm referring to the pics that Emily posted of "typical" Swedes, I believe them to be true. Whenever my father travels to Europe on business, he always makes a stop in Stockholm, as it's his favorite European city, along with Dublin, Ireland. He has shown me pics of the city, always with pretty girls in the fore, or background. Anyone who's been to Stockholm would say the same.
Comparing Caroline Winberg to Gemma Ward is a joke. Gemma looks like a space alien compared to her. If any of you have actually been reading this site, which I seriously doubt, it has been observed that high fashion models, ones's comparable to Carloline, tend to have a lot more definite i.e. masculine features. Saying that Caroline looks like most Swedish women is like saying that Ashwairya Rai looks like most Indians. The only difference being that Carloline has a kind of beauty that is comparable to the general Swedish population. The general population in India, however, has women that look drasticly different than Ashwairya, meaning that A. Rai is the exception rather than the rule. The beauty of Caroline, is typical of the beauty that you would see every day in Northern/North Western Europe.
Hope this clarifys. Caroline's features are exagerated, as are most fashion models, this is why they are sought out by modeling agencies. Caroline is beautiful nonetheless, and Gemma can't even compare to her.
By the way Godis, as far as diet goes, when it comes to longevity, not necessarily beauty, I have read that Mediterranian (olive oil based foods), and some Asian diets, are the healthiest. Scandinavian diets are similar to other Northern/Western European diets, and their life expectancy stats are still very high. Sweden, for example, has a very low infant mortality rate, and life expectancy is slightly higher than that of Ireland, Britain, etc. I don't think, though, that their diet has much to do with their overall appearance, as far as bone structure and coloring. Anthropological literature indicates that the indigenous peoples of N. Europe have had their distinctive facial/skeletal shapes for thousands of years. Although evolution plays a part, at one time, Scandinavians had very different features than those on the British Isles, but the Vikings travelled to much of Europe, and a lot of their features "inter-mingled" with others, so that over time, their became many Nordic "sub-races". Most of my family, for example, is Keltic Nordic, as well as Borreby. The coloring of our family is much the same as Scandinavians, but our features differ, except for the nose, we all have the "Nordic nose", which I definitely believe to be a good thing.
So as far as diet, being the reason for the looks of Scandinavians, that may be a small part, but I don't believe it plays the most significant part. It really is just good genes. At one time, the Vikings had many struggles, which is why they travelled to other parts of Europe. They had very good survival skills, and did what they had to do as a race, in order to prevail.
I do believe that diet plays a significant role, as can be attributed to the average heighths of some countries, that are increasing. Scandinavians have always been known to be taller than other Europeans, but then again, there are some tribes in Africa, where the average males are extremely tall, but one could probably assume, that diet does not attribute to this.
I am in no way a scientist, just a person that is very interested in her personal racial and ethnic heritage. I do enjoy reading the articles, not just "scanning" them. Godis, this is a very fascinating topic-European Anthropology, and I'd actually read it, instead of scanning it.
By the way, Erik, if I've been misinformed and have posted any inacuracies, I'd appreciate clarification. Thank you.
Continue the excellent work here....
Emily, on another thread, I had posted a reply to "booty man", who said that Northern Europeans had flat backsides, not sure if you saw it: A Swedish girl....
Not the over-exaggerated "booty", but a nice, shapely, feminine and rounded behind. The kind that most men, including mine find ideal.
And this one of Malin's one of my favorites, paying homage to the forties pin-up girl, an era where it was still appreciated for a woman to actually look like a WOMAN!!!
Malin with very avant gard make-up, showing off her stunning bone structure....
These are, to me PERFECT faces, they may not all be "oval", a lot of them won't be, or will be variants....Malin Akerman
not to mention that she's extremely feminine, at least as far as I can see...
Veronica Lake....
Nicole Kidman.....
Michelle Pfeiffer.....
Elizabeth Taylor....
Notice the variance of face shapes, ethnicities, coloring, etc. The concept of beauty of subjective, but I'd be suprised to find anyone who'd doubt these woman are extremely lovely, masculine or not.....
By the way Godis: the picture of K. Heigl, where you literally outline the bottom of her face shows that it is OVAL. I am not going to continue to argue this, as you've already stated that you will always believe you are right. Emily and I have now shown you countless examples, but it seems that because you don't like Emily, and probably don't like me now, you will abandon all logic to show that you are "right", even when it's glaringly obvious that you don't know how to properly assess face shapes.
Emily, thank you, I think that you and I must have at least a basic understanding of spatial dimensions and face shape. I agree that round shapes can also be beautiful, as you've shown. I tried to appease godis in explaining to her that "oval" is a very broad description. Thanks so much again for helping me clarify this to her, but I don't know if it will do any good. The examples you used to describe the various face shapes are more accurate than the one's I tried to use. Godis said that she will always believe she's right, but I think anyone reading this post will see that the pics you and I used prove the case. The photo I used of Catherine Zeta Jones looks as it may be photoshopped or perhaps taken after some amount of weight loss, as I agree with you, her face is round for the most part.
I did read that she said "bitch I hope your nose gets broke by a fist" (I was paraphrasing), it seemed apparent even then, that there was some self esteem issues, as she wouldn't have become so incensed unless something there struck a nerve.
I appreciate the honesty you've posted here. I think someone said on another thread, "I'd begun to doubt the fortitude of white's", and I had also begun to have my doubts.
I mean no disrespect to anyone who's taken offense to anything I may have said, but why come here and lie? Why try to soothe the sensitive feelings of those with inferioity complexes? That's not why I come here, and from what I've gathered from the bulk of your posts, it's not the reason you do either. You seem to be a confident young woman who's here for the same reason as me: to discuss the looks of woman on an open forum, one that (for once) focuses on the beauty of Northern Europeans. Though I'm not a Swede, my father, who has visited Stockholm on several occasions, has said that the women are so beautiful, that he considered the notion of moving there, but admitted he'd get nothing done, as he'd be too busy staring at what he describes as "endless beauty".
I'm not a full-blooded Nordic, but as I said elsewhere, very proud to be in the club.
Godis: the more I read what you describe as oval, I think you are referring to long, oval shaped. As Emily and I have explained, there are many variants of "oval". A "round" face is robust, with a strong jaw and when moving upward, even more prominant cheekbones, hence, a round shape. Drew Barrymore, as an adult, has a short, oval face.
Here is a square:
heart shape....
oval/round...
oval/heart...
round/heart.....
The woman in the previous post, Angelina, Meg, Nicole, Audrey, and Bettie are also variants. You'll notice that bangs will "shorten" the look of the face, making Audrey's and Bettie's look more heart shaped.
Sorry Barberella if you are really not Emily. I don't think you and her have anything in common, except your writing style. Again, I don't think you are anything like Emily. You are mature, you try to see other points of view and keep an open mind, and you stick to your opinions and points in a respectful manner. Unlike Emily and sometimes even me LOL
But, your writing style is sooo similar, it is driving me crazy. I don't know if it is a Swedish thing, or if Emily is playing two people, which doesn't make sense. However, I SWEAR your writing styles are soo similar its scary.
* A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION:
Why are Northern European men more masculine and Northern European women more feminine on average? Why is the gap between feminine and masculine bigger? What did they do differently in terms of natural selection that caused this?
Because if the masculine man chose the feminine women, it doesn't matter they would still get only average sons. If an average male chose a masculine woman, their daughter would be average. If a feminine man chose a feminine woman, their son would be pretty feminine.
The way I see it, it would all just create a lot of average, if they followed the general rules. So what rules did they follow? How did they develop to have more masculine men and more feminine woman?
I'm going to come back and say this bothers me. I know I commented on this post already, but it troubles me. If you are a feminine woman, you will have beautiful daughters but your sons will be probably just ok, or just weak looking. If you are a masculine woman, you will have the son that every woman won't be able to resist, but you will have the daughter that no man wants to go near. If you are average, you will have average sons and daughters.
So, good looking people are just very lucky. Average people are just the norm. And ugly people just got screwed.
Great. Life sucks.
I want to have daughters and sons and if one is attractive the other won't be!? That just sucks.
So, Erik,
What do you think about research that indicates a feminine woman is more likely to have daughters, a masculine woman is more likely to have sons, and average woman are meant to have both sons and daughters?
The idea is that each type of woman is designed to raise a certain type of child. A feminine woman may have trouble handling routy boys because it is most likely not in her nature, however a more masculinized woman can handle routy boys. On the other hand a feminine woman will be more gentle, one suited for raising daughters. An average woman can handle average kids.
Also, how does this problem get solved, or is it supposed to be this way?
What is the goal of nature?
A. To create averaged out human beings
B. To create the most optimally attractive human beings
Does attraction really have a good correlation to fertility, intelligence, health?
Which way is better to go? Attractive or average?
srry not Barbella Barberella. She is much nicer and understanding and mature
Emily:
I like your other personality Barbella better:)
and I agree white people get called racist if they have any pride. But I think pride is stupid anyways. Everyone needs to have pride in who they are and what they are, but people shouldn't take it to the extreme. I have racists in my family actually, but I'm not one. And don't even talk about gay rights to my parents, they are extremely anti-gay,while I could care less what people do with eachother.
I thought I should repost my comment since I forgot to write my name on it.
"The whole "Erik I need you to tell me if I'm masculine or feminine because of my finger length" thing is bordering in hysteria. Who cares?"
You are right. It is hysteria, and it is coming from a disturbed person, I believe. The incredible thing is that she is constantly offending Erik and posts negative comments about him, some are really attack posts more than anything else.
She apparently cannot stand his view on femininity, and his preferences, so she constantly bashes him here, and yet at the same time she wants his opinion on HER looks, and she wants him to call her feminine even though he hasn't even seen a photo of her, instead asking him to evaluate her on the basis of her being a cross between Drew Barrymore and Katherine Heigl. LOL
Godis;
"I'm obsessed with my finger length"
We know... Do they let you out full-time or do you have to check in for the night?
Barberella;
"I haven't offered any physical descriptions of myself because I'm very confident in my looks and femininity. Of course I have certain traits that deviate from the "ultimate" feminine, but I am extremely feminine and good looking overall. I won't go running to the mirror every time I read something on this blog that may contradict a "feminine" ideal, because I am FEMININE OVERALL. And that's what's important."
This is what a pretty girl sounds like. :)
I'm not saying that one has to have full confidence all the time. However, I do think that if you have to measure your finger in order to find out if you are feminine, and compare photos of movie stars and ask for opinions non-stop for months on an internet site - instead of talking to your family and friends - you have serious issues.
Such a person is most likely also misrepresenting herself, since very feminine and pretty girls very seldom look so desperately for approval on the internet. She gets that kind of feed-back in real life.
"The whole "Erik I need you to tell me if I'm masculine or feminine because of my finger length" thing is bordering in hysteria. Who cares?"
You are right. It is hysteria, and it is coming from a disturbed person, I believe. The incredible thing is that she is constantly offending Erik and posts negative comments about him, some are really attack posts more than anything else.
She apparently cannot stand his view on femininity, and his preferences, so she constantly bashes him here, and yet at the same time she wants his opinion on HER looks, and she wants him to call her feminine even though he hasn't even seen a photo of her, instead asking him to evaluate her on the basis of her being a cross between Drew Barrymore and Katherine Heigl. LOL
Godis;
"I'm obsessed with my finger length"
We know... Do they let you out full-time or do you have to check in for the night?
Barberella;
"I haven't offered any physical descriptions of myself because I'm very confident in my looks and femininity. Of course I have certain traits that deviate from the "ultimate" feminine, but I am extremely feminine and good looking overall. I won't go running to the mirror every time I read something on this blog that may contradict a "feminine" ideal, because I am FEMININE OVERALL. And that's what's important."
This is what a pretty girl sounds like. :)
I'm not saying that one has to have full confidence all the time. However, I do think that if you have to measure your finger in order to find out if you are feminine, and compare photos of movie stars and ask for opinions non-stop for months on an internet site - instead of talking to your family and friends - you have serious issues.
Such a person is most likely also misrepresenting herself, since very feminine and pretty girls very seldom look so desperately for approval on the internet. She gets that kind of feed-back in real life.
"How exactly have I bitten the bait when youve expressed pride in your nationality/race, what bait is to be bitten?"
Barberella is right. As soon as a white person expresses pride in their race/achievements/looks it is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. You immediately get attacked for it, aggressively. I have seen the very same thing many times. It is something whites notice often. There are unacceptable different standards for us than for others.
Black pride...great.
Asian pride...excellent.
Latin pride...cool.
White pride....................................huh? Racist!
Really, I'm the disturbed one? Honey go back and read some of YOUR posts.
And wait, Ekaterina has fine facial features, despite her nose bump. If you were to break your nose I would hope it would turn extremely big and robust.
"Plus, yes I do wish that you get a hooked nose."
Get help. You are disturbed.
When I claimed round faces were undesirable, I meant photos you posted. They were always robust and extreme round faces. I have a round face, and I hardly would call my face shape undesirable, because its not.
Plus, yes I do wish that you get a hooked nose. You constantly make fun of people with hooked noses like Ekaterina, and I think you deserve one to see what it feels like and to be vulnerable to people just like you. I think that anyone that makes fun of a feature to the extent you make fun of hooked noses deserves to live with that feature. And you act like I wished you harm to the extent you could die or go to the hospital. Many people break their noses, I think you'd live and learn a good lesson too.
Sometimes pain makes us grow. And I wasn't actually serious about that. But if that scenario were to occur, I think it'd be a blessing disguised as a curse because it may make you more sensitive to people that are not born perfect.
link | Submitted by Barberella on Sat, 08/01/2009 - 01:00.
"And hell no, I don't want nor need your approval. It's just that you, and the likes of you, are SO predictable, biting the bait as soon as a white person expresses pride in her nationality."
How exactly have I bitten the bait when youve expressed pride in your nationality/race, what bait is to be bitten? when if you were an intelligent reader you would have read and understood that I clearly expressed no dissatisfaction at your having pride in your race/nationality "You can believe what you like you are free to hold onto your beliefs" is what I wrote. Dont tell me you understand what that means?. Wise up Joker that game wont work anymore. For all the "white people" you harp on about europeans have never been and never will be known as the whitest people in the world.LOL.
"Are they, anonymous? That's utter foolishness"
Oh please wise up you drama queen.
"And anonymous, if no offense was taken, why respond to either post? Obviously, something struck a nerve."
I was responding to a comment and your evidence for something supposedly having "struck a nerve" and "offence taken" is " "anonymous, if no offense was taken, why respond to either post? Obviously, something struck a nerve" Ive answered both. Nothing has struck a nerve with me but I know something has clearly struck a nerve with you and I know what it is too.LOL. Tata.
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