This is a reply to both "mary" and "Voice of Reason". Tim89, if you are reading this I will reply to you at another time.
mary,
You say that I am reading things into your comments hat are not there which is untrue but are replying to me by completely misreading and re-interpreting comments I have said. I'll take them one by one:
First, your comments about BMI. You are misinformed when you say that this inaccurate. You say:
"We cant use a simple one size fits all scale to determine whether people are healthy or not.This method is too simplified and incorrect & doesn't take things like peoples frame into consideration. Sometimes healthy athletes find themselves out of the Normal Weight range on the BMI."
The BMI chart is not a "one size fits all". You don't understand what it is as it is clearly not that. It is calculated healthy weight ranges that correlate to the specific height of the person. People's frames don't change this because the weight of a person will be distributed as their natural frame intends it to be.
Also, about the athletic comment, well this is you not understanding the issue. There are people that bulk up way too much muscle and that is not healthy for them either. Too much muscle can lead to problems in the future as well. There is a reason why bodybuilders for example lower their muscle mass considerably when they retire.
"You need to accept that you personally like women of that body shape and know thats ok but at the same time not denigrate women of other body shapes because your unsure about yourself whether it is ok to like women of that body type.She has a nice body type,so feel assured in your self that it is ok to like that, even if the media tries to say otherwise-who is the media to know anything?"
There is nothing I need to accept because there is nothing in denial on my end. There are women that aren't as curvy as Hendricks and I still find attractive but that isn't even the issue here.
What you need to understand is that we live in a society where the media is dominated by the fashion industry and has been for decades. Because of this physical feminine features have been considered not elements not desirable and people have been brainwashed into finding females who are very masculine as the only kind of attractive female and women who are underweight are advertised as healthy and sexy. This is why you have people who will look at Hendricks and think she is unhealthy when she clearly is not or think she is not attractive because of how she is when this is mostly an influence of the media because it promotes the opposite image.
"At the same time though you have to accept that there's other men & other women that consider other things beautiful and not put down slimmer women.
Just because you like one body type doesnt then mean that all others are unattractive,or unhealthy or anorexic etc.
There is more then one body type that is attractive eg:curvy,petite,slender,athletic & people appreciate different types of beauty regardless of whether they are men or women."
You go off on two more paragraphs after this that run on the same lines. This is nothing but rhetoric mary and none of which applies to me. I expressed I think Hendricks is extremely attractive. You are taking that fact and replying to me as if I said only women that look like her are attractive. Ironic that you wrote earlier that I was the one supposedly reading into things that weren't there when you are doing so here.
"Im not going to go into comments of "if your a woman your opinion is less important regarding women" or viceversa for men-nobodies opinion on earth is less important then anyone elses.All humans of same sex plus other sex can appreciate beauty.Beauties not just about sexual feelings,it is a different matter,we all know beauty whether it is in people or nature etc so to me the male vs feeling importance of opinion thing is without relevance."
You're going off on a bit of a tangent here. First of all, yes... there are times when certain people's opinion and perspective's are more important and are of more value than other's. If I read 6 pages of a book but another person read all 200.. is there not one opinion between the two that would carry more value?
Beauty is subjective but at the same time it is relative. A straight man and a straight woman will never see another woman in the same way. This must be understood and accepted. Therefore if a man finds a woman attractive there is no argument that another straight woman can have with the man on the same level. They are not coming from the same angle.
I repeat again, it would be just as silly for a man to criticize another man's looks with a woman who finds that man highly physically attractive. Unless the man criticizing is gay, what is he playing at?
Many women engage in these kinds of conversations without realizing how silly it is thanks to the culture that has been established. Women's looks are far more criticized than men's are and it has become free reign in the media circus to do so. Since many women read these trash sources and sadly believe them wholeheartedly, they start to mold their minds to this and regurgitate it to others as if they were imparting good knowledge.
And this is a topic specifically related to physical looks. We are not talking about personalities and emotions which are separate. A person's looks are related to sexual attraction and interaction. This is not vulgar or ugly. This is the name of the game. This is why a straight woman's opinion of another woman is not as important as another man's because they are not wired for the same thing and vice versa.
"Angelina Jolie is attractive but so are 500 other women in hollywood"
I am surprised you completely missed every point I brought up in regards to Jolie. It was quite explicit.
Voice of Reason,
If we are going to be talking about delusion, then between the two of us only you can be the subject of that topic. You said that you are 5'6 and 115 and said this is healthy and you have a BMI of 21. This is just plain wrong. No BMI chart gives that number with those stats and in fact it gives a number that is signifies being underweight.
You also claim Hendricks is overweight and unhealthy but she is not. Yet this erroneous perspective is not surprising when you don't even have an accurate assessment of your own BMI.
In regards to Marilyn Monroe being "skin and bones" I would have never have said that about her. In fact, it is irony of the highest order you even mention her as the "ideal female body" because had she been of this generation looking exactly how she did in her actual time, people like you would've called her "fat". It is further proof of how media influences other people when it is quite obvious in pictures that Monroe's body type is different than what is seen in the mainstream nowdays and yet someone like you still sees her as beautiful. This is because Monroe is still kept as an icon in the media and people like you follow the propaganda closely and yet don't see how it obviously clashes with what you think "fat" is on other people.
The reason we don't see this "ideal female body" as common in the mainstream as we used to is because after her time the fashion industry rose to new heights of power and influence and changed the image advertised in the media of female beauty. This kind of image is now what people like you are influenced by and subscribe to which is deformed information.
I'm not sure what kind of modeling you did, if you even did at all, but chances are quite high that you were involved with companies and people that subscribe to unhealthy ideas and images of women. All twisted and distorted by the influence of the fashion industry.
As far as the photo you posted, there are several things wrong here. First, the photo seems to have been taken from a youtube video. If so, why not link to the whole video itself as the image is not clear (a black dress worn in front of a mostly dark background)? Plus, there is no proof that is even you.
All I know for a fact is, if you are 5'6, 115lbs then you are underweight. From those stats, you would do better to gain at least 5 pounds more.
"If you have a problem with other women looking good you need to take some time out and come to terms with how you feel about yourself. Good looking women don't hurt you. Quit projecting your issues on to other people"
What do you mean if I have problems with other good looking women? I find myself an attractive individual, but I have flaws as does everybody. And in the end there WILL always be women that are MUCH better looking than me. Don't you think I've realized that in my 21 years? I mean seriously, I have friends that are more attractive than me. I have a friend who looks freakingly unrealistically good. However, I can still hang out with her knowing that she will be getting more attention from guys everywhere. Does it bother me, annoy me, make me feel bad sometimes? Yah. But I like myself with flaws and all, and although my friend is just gorgeous I think I'm just fine and I can deal with it.
And as for you, I feel like this whole, "I'm ugly" thing is just an excuse. A truly ugly person wouldn't be so quick and blunt to admit it. They would know they were ugly for sure, but they wouldn't act "proud" of it as you do. It's something you hide under. It's a "Well, I can't control the way I look" type deal. It makes you feel better about yourself.
You probably look fine. You may even look good. You might have good bone structure and potential, but instead you want to hide behind your "percieved" ugliness.
Go get your hair done, go to the gym, put a lil makeup on, buy some cute clothes, and smile.
You don't have to spend a lot of money on looking good, feminine, and classy.
You were clearly blessed with intelligence, but I highly doubt you are lacking so much in the other department.
And you don't even have to TRY to look good or be someone you aren't. But I believe every woman should take care of herself. Nurture yourself. Spend time on yourself. Enjoy your body, no matter how "ugly" you feel it to be. Look for beauty in it.
Paul,
My height would be 5.7 but i dont know weight in pounds.
I gave my height and weight for the specific purpose of pointing out that when i was saying that Christina Hendricks looked okay and healthy that it would be known that i was speaking from objectivety and not because i was a larger woman unhappy with my weight & trying to defend my self or project my issues etc.
Actually when i said heavy-set,i meant it exactly as that.She is heavy-set or heavyboned.That is a fact and wasn't used as an underhanded comment to really mean that i thought she was fat,obese,tubby,huge,enormous etc.If i thought she was i would have just come out and said that,i wouldnt have used "tactful" words.
Your reading things into my comments that arn't there.
Emily sometimes did the same.
You need to accept that you personally like women of that body shape and know thats ok but at the same time not denigrate women of other body shapes because your unsure about yourself whether it is ok to like women of that body type.She has a nice body type,so feel assured in your self that it is ok to like that, even if the media tries to say otherwise-who is the media to know anything?
At the same time though you have to accept that there's other men & other women that consider other things beautiful and not put down slimmer women.
Just because you like one body type doesnt then mean that all others are unattractive,or unhealthy or anorexic etc.
There is more then one body type that is attractive eg:curvy,petite,slender,athletic & people appreciate different types of beauty regardless of whether they are men or women.
Saying that Christina Hendricks looks ok and is healthy doesn't then make it automatically that a more smaller or petite woman,like a Chinese woman for example is unhealthy.They can both still be healthy & look good but in different ways.
A a man,you should never want to put any womans body down & make her feel bad or less no matter what her body type is.As a man you should want to protect womens feelings from hurt & not be a contribution to hurt or a woman then feeling inadequate.
Im not going to go into comments of "if your a woman your opinion is less important regarding women" or viceversa for men-nobodies opinion on earth is less important then anyone elses.All humans of same sex plus other sex can appreciate beauty.Beauties not just about sexual feelings,it is a different matter,we all know beauty whether it is in people or nature etc so to me the male vs feeling importance of opinion thing is without relevance.
When i say lies by the medical industry i don't mean intentional lies but i mean the methods they are using of the BMI are false and inaccurate.We cant use a simple one size fits all scale to determine whether people are healthy or not.This method is too simplified and incorrect & doesn't take things like peoples frame into consideration.
Sometimes healthy athletes find themselves out of the Normal Weight range on the BMI.
Angelina Jolie is attractive but so are 500 other women in hollywood.I dont know why the media seems to single her out & talk about her like shes the most gorgeous women in the world.There are other women in Hollywood that are just as equally or more attractive.I guess the media does that with men too like saying that about George Clooney but i find other male actors more attractive then him.
Voice of reason,
You look great and clearly very far from underweight in that photo.
Monroe doesn't look that much different than Hendricks. Then agian I'm not projecting any issues I have with my own body on other people. I do remember you mentioning you were a model once. That is all well and good but you need to come to terms with the fact you are so deeply entrenched in an industry that demands unnatural thinness from women you cannot make an objective calls on anyone's weight. I also find it funny someone who admittedly would have no medical trianing is making calls on anyone's health. You don't know anything about it.
I also find it laughable you claim to hold feminist ideals yet cling to patriarchy when it suits you. You can't have both worlds. Pick and camp and stay in it.
"Marilyn's body shape is supposed to be the ideal female body "
Says who?
And while I don't think you are a bad looking woman I think you are trying a wee bit hard to prove you are somehow better looking than Hendricks. She's the one with an acting career, magazine spreads and awards. You are the one spreading vitriol on the internet. Catch the big difference?
You're delusional, if Christina Hendricks is healthy then according to you Marilyn Monroe would be skin and bones? Marilyn's body shape is supposed to be the ideal female body and clearly she is much more healthier so why do you insist Christina Hendricks is healthy? Like Godis said, she might be healthy but clearly she can be healthier and she is definitely not a healthy role model.
And as for me, I've already posted my picture before, have a look and you will see I am not skin and bones but actually healthy and curvy. I am a size 8, 32 C 25 35 which is obviously not anorexic but not fat like Miss Hendricks either who is size 14, 38DD (keeps changing and I suspect she uses padding) 30 40.
Sorry for the late reply. I had connection problems. Anyway, I agree that the rigid definitions of 'man' and 'woman' do not accurately reflect the actual reality of sexuality(whether gay, straight or bi) and sexual identity(male or female) both on a biological and a psychological level. Instead of having absolute extremities for the population, we have to redefine these states of sexual being as a function that is continuous over this range, consisting of a combination of the two(straight or gay) in various proportions except at the end points. It would not surprise me if the result is a normal distribution, i.e. most people have bisexual or close to bisexual predispositions but are conditioned by society, culture e.t.c to suppress them. Furthermore, it comes as no surprise that these crude definitions still hold as I believe they are due to strict cultures and religions which are reluctant to modification and intellectual advancement at least in this area. We live in a world where individuals persistently deny the evidence right in front of them. I sometimes find myself wishing we were more like the 'Vulcans' from 'Star Trek', cold logical beings.
I looked at the link to the article you provided. I have read it before, I did so again to ensure I remembered it fully. I am still unconvinced. Choosing specific examples does not constitute a statistical analysis and there are other factors to consider:
1. SEXUAL CONSIDERATIONS: Are the designers themselves(assuming they are largely gay) choosing models they find sexually pleasing? If not then their sexuality is irrelevant. It is important to note that this may be down to aesthetics not related to sexuality e.g. babies are mostly considered highly attractive without the sexual component. They may find the models striking or photogenic or whatever, I hear that being said a lot.
2.Cause and effect considerations i.e. did the industry set the standard or was it a result of a larger cultural phenomena?(Because something is prominent to an observer does not imply it is the cause).
3. Is it an after-effect of the obesity crisis in the developed world? Think back to the force-feeding example I gave in one of my other posts, this happens in the third world especially in the poorest of countries where food is scarce and the population is largely malnutrition and thus underweight. In both these cases, you identify immediately the commonality. A largely unattainable ideal, the definition of beauty. 'Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder' springs to mind. Most people look at the bright side of this saying, that everyone is beautiful. I look at the rational implication of this statement, that beauty is subjective. Now, we know that humans are species of collective tendencies on a large scale with very little divergence from the collective norm. We conclude that that it is expected that beauty standards change over time.
There are other factors to be considered but I'll submit and stop at these. It CAN'T be as simple as 'Gay men in fashion = skinny relatively masculine models'
About the weight issue, as I said underweight women have no discernible hip, buttock and thigh fat thus achieve the less feminine look. The 'standard' says 'skinny is the ideal' and by reducing the hip width, you get closer to that ideal. Looking more masculine is not the goal, being and looking skinny is. The masculinity is an inevitable result of this change. Hence my assertion that weight is the main issue.
Yeah, the attempt to achieve an accurate representation of the era may be behind Christina's success. Try to imagine her in Angelina's movies(e.g. Wanted or Lara croft movies), she just doesn't fit. What I'm saying is that the standing of women in movies has become more masculine. The women are taller and they beat up and are sometimes significantly more powerful than men. When we look at how our society has defined femininity in the past we soon realize that it had the characteristics of vulnerability, weakness, grace(instead of brute force) and the constant need to be protected. This shift in the representation of women may have resulted in a psychological 'ripple' necessitating that they look more masculine to provide realism. I don't know. You may consider this my number 4 consideration in the list above. I think Christina is practically perfect but the rest of the public seem to not think so. I can't believe she doesn't even make it into the 'most beautiful women' lists! It's crazy!
mary,
I don't know what "lies" you mean that are spread by the medical industry. When it comes to health, the only real lies I see are what is pushed forth from the media which is sourced by the fashion industry. Even if people aren't avid followers of the fashion industry, the influence is all over the media. In the last few decades, women advertised as beautiful have become underweight and only very highly masculine women are shown while physical feminine features like wide hips and prominent backsides being labeled as undesirable.
Healthy weight ranges are relative to the height of each person, but thanks to the distortion of the media and what it promotes and declares many people don't know what they are looking at anymore that is healthy. This is why member "Voice of Reason" for example thinks she is a healthy weight when she is not and yet she sees a very healthy woman like Hendricks and thinks she is overweight.
Even though you have a better stance on this issue than her, I see the influence of the zeitgeist in your reply when you describe Hendricks as "heavy set". Even though you then claim you don't mean it as "overweight" that is how this term is correctly used as. In other words, even though you don't mean it as such you give off a negative slant. This is directly connected to the fact that you say you don't find her ascetically beautiful but it wouldn't be so far as for me to suppose how much of what is and has been promoted as beautiful that you have been exposed to has influenced you to believe this.
Also, we need to consider here the perspective. Assuming you are a heterosexual female, your view of Ms. Hendricks would be of less importance than someone like myself who is a heterosexual male. Earlier I used the example of how silly it would be for me to comment and criticize a George Clooney since I am a heterosexual man and therefore what would I really know compared to a straight female? The reason we (men) don't engage in these kinds of discussions and comments about other men is because our culture doesn't dictate that we should. Women however, are subjected to tons of nonsense from the media on how specifically to dress to how they should look to what they wear, etc... from mostly an ignorant and selfish group of marketers. Many think this is correct information and therefore express this to each other as if they are imparting real knowledge.
As far as aesthetics and beauty the only difference between them is that beauty is not only subjective, it can be manipulated by the media who can groom a society to believe what is attractive according to how they see fit. People who are not influenced by the media can identify health and this can increase the chances of physical attraction. Heterosexual men for example are wired to find healthy women with very high feminine physical features attractive. Thanks to the media however, this has been subdued considerably.
I personally don't find Angelina Jolie, as she looks now, attractive whatsoever. She looked better many years ago. Now she is very underweight and her face looks more "manly" to me which could be a combination of the lower weight she is at now and possible plastic surgery. The media though promotes her as the ultimate woman and many fall victim to the propaganda. It is no coincidence that for me Christina Hendricks as she looks now is far, far more attractive than Angelina Jolie. She is at a healthy weight while Jolie is not and that plays a big role.
P.S.
It is interesting that you gave your stats. From my conversion calculations you would be 5'6 and 130 pounds right? Therefore you would be of the same height as "Voice of Reason". She claimed at 115lbs her BMI is healthy and at 21 which is incorrect and she is underweight. However, you at the same height but with 15 more pounds on you. That funny enough averages to a BMI of 21.
I don't think Christian Hendricks will have any issues with medical Problems.There is a tendency for the Medical Industry and the media to say that all people over a certain weight will have medical problems including heart disease,cholesterol etc but this is a fallacy.
This only applies to some people.It depends on how the weight is carried.
For example one person can carry extra weight but have no breathing difficulties and be full of health and vibrancy-take some large Opera singers for example.
On the otherhand though there can be some people that are large that dont carry the weight well & they are too large for what their frame is meant to be and they get health problems including breathing difficulties and extra work placed on the heart.
I do think that unless shes strong and really likes herself that she could possibly get emotional problems because of pressure from the media because there a tendency for the media to say that someone like her shape is overweight and needs to slimdown and the media is very harsh,cruel,overcritical and often unrealistic.
Her size is fine for her and January Jones size is fine for her.Neither of them look like they are about to collapse from either obesity or anorexia.They both look within healthy range limits just both different.
There is a tendency i feel on this site for people to project their own issues instead of looking at things objectively.
The media is similar.It has basically one ideal ok weight that everyone is meant to be a cardboard copy of each other and there is no room for acceptance of different body types and that they all can be equally attractive.
The media attempts to equate womens value and worth with their body shape,or breast size etc and makes it harder for all of us.
I dont think that Christina Hendricks will have any health issues from "obesity"-shes just heavy set, and i am by no means an overweight women just saying that to make myself feel better.
I am 170cm and 59kg so i am by no means large, i just have an issue with the lies spread by medical industry that all larger people are unhealthy & cant breathe or that all super slim people are unhealthy and anorexic.Thats not the case always.
People are individuals and some are naturally heavy set and some are naturally skinny but without health risks.
We are all different and cant be all measured by the same tool.
Aesthetically wise,Christian Hendrix look is a bit too large for what i consider aesthetically beautiful but aesthetics is different from health.
Also i dont know whats going on with her lips here?
Why do some people get lip enhancements when sometimes they end up looking worse and stranger when their lips looked perfectly good before
Christina Hendricks is not "fat". If "fat" you mean by the distorted media and the society it grooms then sure. But if by "fat" you mean from a sane and healthy educated mind? No. She is not fat. She looks really good to me and if she were fat I'd know and wouldn't be attracted to her as much as I am. She seems to be more or less in the middle of her healthy weight range and she looks very good to me (I am a heterosexual man). And because she is curvy the weight distributes beautifully on her frame accentuating her femininity.
You seem to have this distorted sadly. I say sadly because I think it was you who went up against Emily in numerous posts and seemed to be of a far healthier view then her on race and such. But perhaps when it comes to body issues, you are misguided.
I see the problem immediately in your report on your own BMI. You say you are 5'6 and 115 pounds and declare this gives a BMI of 21. I don't know where you got this from because on no BMI chart or calculator I have seen does a 5'6 and 115 body appear as healthy. Depending on what chart you use, it's either a 18-19 and on each of those charts it's identified as underweight. Ironic, since you mistakenly suggest that Hendricks will have health problems but on your stats it is you who will if you don't gain some pounds.
Godis,
No offense, a lot of what you are saying seems to come from your mental consumption of stereotypes. First, single mothers out there have nothing to do with your argument. That is related to practicing bad sex habits and poor standards of responsibility on the parts of the fathers (assuming they are still alive).
As a man I can tell you for a fact what is going on from a man's perspective. Men are selective but it's mostly only when they have the opportunity for choice. If they don't, then they tend to get desperate and lower their standards. Mind you these "standards" are relative but trust me if you were to ask any man, especially the ones you see that would go to bed with anything, that if they had the power of choice of who to sleep with then they wouldn't be sleeping with just anything that comes in their way. Too many men don't know how to approach women and that's why so many depend on liquor and other "social lubricants" at parties and such. Women do this too, although perhaps for different reasons mostly.
I also want to stress that having many sexual partners and not wanting to commit to them is not directly related to lowering of standards. A person can be at a point in their life where they are not interested in a relationship beyond sex even if the person's personality suits them.
The reason for me "calling you out" is because you seem to be more level headed than people like Emily and others. There is no point in even engaging in a discussion with people like her on an internet blog. However, you seem to have some insecurities and project them into your discussions and some are misguided.
I've already tackled a bit on Hendricks with Voice of Reason in this post, but to specifically respond to your comments. I am going to guess that you are very fashion oriented and/or have been very inspired by fashion industry like mindsets. From your comments on wanting thinness or at least thinking this is best suited to all woman, erroneously claiming that Hendricks breasts size would only appeal to people with a fetish to even using the dreaded "in proportion" argument that I see so many fashion fans use... you are very misinformed.
You are also not appreciating the perspective I am giving you as a man. You are wrong to assume that only men with a fetish would find her breasts attractive. You are wrong to assume that she lacks femininity because of "fat" which she is not. As another poster pointed out, you can clearly see her frame and it is much accentuated as is. If she were to actually become overweight then you would not see her hourglass figure.
Finally, this "athleticism" argument of yours is not relevant because not every person, man or woman, needs to be athletic which is different then just being in shape or healthy. You say, "Think of it in terms of survival." This concept is irrelevant and out dated in our day and age. We don't need to hunt for food anymore for example. And even in those days, the more feminine women were needed in order to bear healthy children. And to this day they are desired and I can tell you for a fact that it is no fetish to find a woman like Christina Hendricks attractive by many men. Being a women you have no idea what she does to a man's mind much like a heterosexual man would not understand what a George Clooney (or insert any male celebrity who turns you on if he doesn't) would do to a woman's mind. The fact that you keep pushing on what you think she should look like would be just as silly as me suggesting what Goerge Clooney should look like. She is not built for someone like you like a Clooney isn't for me.
I see a lot of women taking this position and it's pretty obvious where it comes from. The media "informing" women on how they "should" look and what is supposedly correct (all directly and indirectly guided by the fashion industry) is nonsense and I see a lot of that coming through in your posts. I hope you stop paying attention to this kind of source.
I believe that that the role of "man" and "woman" have largely been negatively influenced by male dominated societies and cultures. The fact that there are very "masculine" women and even "feminine" men prove that the traditional gender roles do not apply all of the time and should not be always expected to. There is nothing wrong with this except to those still stuck in the out dated concept.
P.S.
You posted a picture of your body. Not sure if that was the "before" or "after". In any case, was this what Emily and others referred to as "fat"? You aren't fat at all there. But you should know by now that people like Emily are about the worst kind of people to be treating seriously considering how mentally twisted she is.
In that picture, you look quite good. Nice bust too. ;)
"Fourth of all, Christina Hendricks is not necessarily fat. However she's got meat on her and in my opinion although she appears healthy she could always be tad bit healthier."
You are nitpicking. If you have a problem with other women looking good you need to take some time out and come to terms with how you feel about yourself. Good looking women don't hurt you. Quit projecting your issues on to other people. You don't what she does, you don't know how she eats. Quit judging because you just look ignorant. We don't all look the same at our healthy weight.
Second of all, the woman standing next to Christina Hendricks in your photo is a toothpick.
Third of all, yeah I got really sensitive about gaining weight and being "plump" haha.
Fourth of all, Christina Hendricks is not necessarily fat. However she's got meat on her and in my opinion although she appears healthy she could always be tad bit healthier.
I'm a firm believer in proper diet and exercise. I don't think people look good fat or skinny. I think they look good at the right weight, where they are the healthiest and exercising a little bit.
I think almost everyone gets fat at some point in their life. Well, not everyone, but you know, this is the U.S.A. I got fat from bad college food... no really people don't believe me they think its the alcohol, which I don't even drink a lot of, the food is really that bad. They soak everything in butter or deep fry it.
But, I think everyone should get up and work out and eath a tad bit healthier. That is hilarious coming from me too, because I eat junk. But really, for your own good, everyone should be trying a little to be heatlhier. It's not about being fat or thin, but healthy.
"I am in two minds about it because on one hand you do want people to be happy with the way they are, but then what about the health risks and all the issues that come along with being chubby? How can you ignore that?"
Except she's not medically over weight. You clearly have no idea what the standards are. All you know if what you look like and it's not helping your perspective any.
"Dark women come across as dynamic, sexy, sultry and also impure at times". Why, thank you, Emily! I love being all those things! Also I have read that men are more likely to have blue eyes... but only by about 5-6%. Not a big number, but I thought it was worth mentioning. I think all hair and eye colors are pretty. I don't decide someone's personality based off of coloring. I personally think brown eyes (which happens to be what I have) are quite friendly and sweet looking. I think they fill up the face more. I am all for expressing your opinion, I just think you take the whole light vs dark thing very seriously. Obviously you have light hair and eyes and posting all those comments about them make you feel better. Well, Emily, I don't know what you look like, but I will tell you that you are beautiful and have gorgeous hair and eyes. I feel the need to say that because, judging by your posts, you may not hear it enough.
Yeah, tell her that when she gets the health problems, psychological issues that are associated with being overweight.
She's become a synonym for chubby girls, you see Christina Hendricks type everywhere particularly so because the media says it's okay to be that way and I find it a bit wrong.
I am in two minds about it because on one hand you do want people to be happy with the way they are, but then what about the health risks and all the issues that come along with being chubby? How can you ignore that?
Stand her next to January Jones who is more normal sized and there's clearly a size difference.
I like this site for some things and dislike it for others. I would love it if I looked anything like the feminine women on here, but I don't. It is frustrating because I am not thin and tall enough for the media to like me and I am not feminine enough for this site to like me. I actually like my face and body, but I wish I had some women out there who were famous and looked like me so I didn't feel so left out. I like this site because it is showing the opposite of what the media shows me. So there is some balance there. I wish I looked more feminine, but sadly I don't. I will never get plastic surgery! I don't have high testosterone levels and I have never been mistaken for a man so I think I am okay! The parts that I think are more masculinized on me are my hips, forehead, and hairline. I am 5'4" so I guess that is more feminine and my breasts are larger.
tyra is so full of shit....and rude...talking over others just so no one can b right but her.....what a flop. shes extremely self absorbed and ignorant
I'm 5'7 and 135 pounds, if I was fat i'd have no problems telling you. I have no problems with being ugly. It's not a death sentence and it's not a bad thing. It's just a part of life. You get over it. Furthermore the listed height for Hendricks is 5'7 or 5'8 If Hendricks was twice your size she'd be 235 pounds. I'm going off what has been said about her in the media. She's said to be between 130 to 140 pounds. She has not been getting a ton of negative press. She's being doing quite well.
You clearly have some issues, firstly you've got self esteem issues, you've said you're very ugly, that's in your own words before you start accusing me.
Also you've got some kind of hatred for women, you've just dismissed me as another harpy, I guess I touched on a nerve when I pointed out the bitterness I sense in you which is misdirected particularly at Godis and VC. Worry for my life!? Lol this is the internet, are you going to fire cyber bullets at me?
As for being Christina being fat, that's how she will be judged by the media and the public and the men in her life, not me. And her BMI, you're clearly a LIAR, I am 5'6 and my weight is 115 lbs, my BMI is 21 so there is no way she is below 22, she is double my size at the same height!
I would normally recommend that people be happy with the way they are but I'm afraid her weight is an issue and has been as evidenced by all the negative press. Maybe you're fat as well, no wonder you'd like to believe Christina Hendricks is thin which is the last thing she is. Don't delude yourself!
"I think you're being a bit mean here, why the bitterness? You sound like a rational intelligent person and I admire the way that you've posted your rebuttal and argued your case but I sense a lot of bitterness towards others, I can understand if you posted the bitterness towards deluded bigots such as Emily and others, and to a lesser degree Erik but I don't think Godis or VC deserves that sort of treatment."
I will choose who I feel is worthy of my tongue lashing. Worry about your own life. From your pronouncements on who happens to be fat it would appear you aren't anything more then a not-so-bright, deluded and programmed female yourself. Christina Hendricks' BMI is between 19.8 and 22 Percent. Either you are just a harpy or you seriously want to see this woman medically underweight.
This is a reply to both "mary" and "Voice of Reason". Tim89, if you are reading this I will reply to you at another time.
mary,
You say that I am reading things into your comments hat are not there which is untrue but are replying to me by completely misreading and re-interpreting comments I have said. I'll take them one by one:
First, your comments about BMI. You are misinformed when you say that this inaccurate. You say:
"We cant use a simple one size fits all scale to determine whether people are healthy or not.This method is too simplified and incorrect & doesn't take things like peoples frame into consideration. Sometimes healthy athletes find themselves out of the Normal Weight range on the BMI."
The BMI chart is not a "one size fits all". You don't understand what it is as it is clearly not that. It is calculated healthy weight ranges that correlate to the specific height of the person. People's frames don't change this because the weight of a person will be distributed as their natural frame intends it to be.
Also, about the athletic comment, well this is you not understanding the issue. There are people that bulk up way too much muscle and that is not healthy for them either. Too much muscle can lead to problems in the future as well. There is a reason why bodybuilders for example lower their muscle mass considerably when they retire.
"You need to accept that you personally like women of that body shape and know thats ok but at the same time not denigrate women of other body shapes because your unsure about yourself whether it is ok to like women of that body type.She has a nice body type,so feel assured in your self that it is ok to like that, even if the media tries to say otherwise-who is the media to know anything?"
There is nothing I need to accept because there is nothing in denial on my end. There are women that aren't as curvy as Hendricks and I still find attractive but that isn't even the issue here.
What you need to understand is that we live in a society where the media is dominated by the fashion industry and has been for decades. Because of this physical feminine features have been considered not elements not desirable and people have been brainwashed into finding females who are very masculine as the only kind of attractive female and women who are underweight are advertised as healthy and sexy. This is why you have people who will look at Hendricks and think she is unhealthy when she clearly is not or think she is not attractive because of how she is when this is mostly an influence of the media because it promotes the opposite image.
"At the same time though you have to accept that there's other men & other women that consider other things beautiful and not put down slimmer women.
Just because you like one body type doesnt then mean that all others are unattractive,or unhealthy or anorexic etc.
There is more then one body type that is attractive eg:curvy,petite,slender,athletic & people appreciate different types of beauty regardless of whether they are men or women."
You go off on two more paragraphs after this that run on the same lines. This is nothing but rhetoric mary and none of which applies to me. I expressed I think Hendricks is extremely attractive. You are taking that fact and replying to me as if I said only women that look like her are attractive. Ironic that you wrote earlier that I was the one supposedly reading into things that weren't there when you are doing so here.
"Im not going to go into comments of "if your a woman your opinion is less important regarding women" or viceversa for men-nobodies opinion on earth is less important then anyone elses.All humans of same sex plus other sex can appreciate beauty.Beauties not just about sexual feelings,it is a different matter,we all know beauty whether it is in people or nature etc so to me the male vs feeling importance of opinion thing is without relevance."
You're going off on a bit of a tangent here. First of all, yes... there are times when certain people's opinion and perspective's are more important and are of more value than other's. If I read 6 pages of a book but another person read all 200.. is there not one opinion between the two that would carry more value?
Beauty is subjective but at the same time it is relative. A straight man and a straight woman will never see another woman in the same way. This must be understood and accepted. Therefore if a man finds a woman attractive there is no argument that another straight woman can have with the man on the same level. They are not coming from the same angle.
I repeat again, it would be just as silly for a man to criticize another man's looks with a woman who finds that man highly physically attractive. Unless the man criticizing is gay, what is he playing at?
Many women engage in these kinds of conversations without realizing how silly it is thanks to the culture that has been established. Women's looks are far more criticized than men's are and it has become free reign in the media circus to do so. Since many women read these trash sources and sadly believe them wholeheartedly, they start to mold their minds to this and regurgitate it to others as if they were imparting good knowledge.
And this is a topic specifically related to physical looks. We are not talking about personalities and emotions which are separate. A person's looks are related to sexual attraction and interaction. This is not vulgar or ugly. This is the name of the game. This is why a straight woman's opinion of another woman is not as important as another man's because they are not wired for the same thing and vice versa.
"Angelina Jolie is attractive but so are 500 other women in hollywood"
I am surprised you completely missed every point I brought up in regards to Jolie. It was quite explicit.
Voice of Reason,
If we are going to be talking about delusion, then between the two of us only you can be the subject of that topic. You said that you are 5'6 and 115 and said this is healthy and you have a BMI of 21. This is just plain wrong. No BMI chart gives that number with those stats and in fact it gives a number that is signifies being underweight.
You also claim Hendricks is overweight and unhealthy but she is not. Yet this erroneous perspective is not surprising when you don't even have an accurate assessment of your own BMI.
In regards to Marilyn Monroe being "skin and bones" I would have never have said that about her. In fact, it is irony of the highest order you even mention her as the "ideal female body" because had she been of this generation looking exactly how she did in her actual time, people like you would've called her "fat". It is further proof of how media influences other people when it is quite obvious in pictures that Monroe's body type is different than what is seen in the mainstream nowdays and yet someone like you still sees her as beautiful. This is because Monroe is still kept as an icon in the media and people like you follow the propaganda closely and yet don't see how it obviously clashes with what you think "fat" is on other people.
The reason we don't see this "ideal female body" as common in the mainstream as we used to is because after her time the fashion industry rose to new heights of power and influence and changed the image advertised in the media of female beauty. This kind of image is now what people like you are influenced by and subscribe to which is deformed information.
I'm not sure what kind of modeling you did, if you even did at all, but chances are quite high that you were involved with companies and people that subscribe to unhealthy ideas and images of women. All twisted and distorted by the influence of the fashion industry.
As far as the photo you posted, there are several things wrong here. First, the photo seems to have been taken from a youtube video. If so, why not link to the whole video itself as the image is not clear (a black dress worn in front of a mostly dark background)? Plus, there is no proof that is even you.
All I know for a fact is, if you are 5'6, 115lbs then you are underweight. From those stats, you would do better to gain at least 5 pounds more.
"But I believe every woman should take care of herself"
Do not assume I do not take care of myself simply because I do not find myself attractive. That is a very stupid thing to assume.
Godis wrote above, directed to Rawr.
Oh and Violet Corpus, I thought you were a guy?
"If you have a problem with other women looking good you need to take some time out and come to terms with how you feel about yourself. Good looking women don't hurt you. Quit projecting your issues on to other people"
What do you mean if I have problems with other good looking women? I find myself an attractive individual, but I have flaws as does everybody. And in the end there WILL always be women that are MUCH better looking than me. Don't you think I've realized that in my 21 years? I mean seriously, I have friends that are more attractive than me. I have a friend who looks freakingly unrealistically good. However, I can still hang out with her knowing that she will be getting more attention from guys everywhere. Does it bother me, annoy me, make me feel bad sometimes? Yah. But I like myself with flaws and all, and although my friend is just gorgeous I think I'm just fine and I can deal with it.
And as for you, I feel like this whole, "I'm ugly" thing is just an excuse. A truly ugly person wouldn't be so quick and blunt to admit it. They would know they were ugly for sure, but they wouldn't act "proud" of it as you do. It's something you hide under. It's a "Well, I can't control the way I look" type deal. It makes you feel better about yourself.
You probably look fine. You may even look good. You might have good bone structure and potential, but instead you want to hide behind your "percieved" ugliness.
Go get your hair done, go to the gym, put a lil makeup on, buy some cute clothes, and smile.
You don't have to spend a lot of money on looking good, feminine, and classy.
You were clearly blessed with intelligence, but I highly doubt you are lacking so much in the other department.
And you don't even have to TRY to look good or be someone you aren't. But I believe every woman should take care of herself. Nurture yourself. Spend time on yourself. Enjoy your body, no matter how "ugly" you feel it to be. Look for beauty in it.
Paul,
My height would be 5.7 but i dont know weight in pounds.
I gave my height and weight for the specific purpose of pointing out that when i was saying that Christina Hendricks looked okay and healthy that it would be known that i was speaking from objectivety and not because i was a larger woman unhappy with my weight & trying to defend my self or project my issues etc.
Actually when i said heavy-set,i meant it exactly as that.She is heavy-set or heavyboned.That is a fact and wasn't used as an underhanded comment to really mean that i thought she was fat,obese,tubby,huge,enormous etc.If i thought she was i would have just come out and said that,i wouldnt have used "tactful" words.
Your reading things into my comments that arn't there.
Emily sometimes did the same.
You need to accept that you personally like women of that body shape and know thats ok but at the same time not denigrate women of other body shapes because your unsure about yourself whether it is ok to like women of that body type.She has a nice body type,so feel assured in your self that it is ok to like that, even if the media tries to say otherwise-who is the media to know anything?
At the same time though you have to accept that there's other men & other women that consider other things beautiful and not put down slimmer women.
Just because you like one body type doesnt then mean that all others are unattractive,or unhealthy or anorexic etc.
There is more then one body type that is attractive eg:curvy,petite,slender,athletic & people appreciate different types of beauty regardless of whether they are men or women.
Saying that Christina Hendricks looks ok and is healthy doesn't then make it automatically that a more smaller or petite woman,like a Chinese woman for example is unhealthy.They can both still be healthy & look good but in different ways.
A a man,you should never want to put any womans body down & make her feel bad or less no matter what her body type is.As a man you should want to protect womens feelings from hurt & not be a contribution to hurt or a woman then feeling inadequate.
Im not going to go into comments of "if your a woman your opinion is less important regarding women" or viceversa for men-nobodies opinion on earth is less important then anyone elses.All humans of same sex plus other sex can appreciate beauty.Beauties not just about sexual feelings,it is a different matter,we all know beauty whether it is in people or nature etc so to me the male vs feeling importance of opinion thing is without relevance.
When i say lies by the medical industry i don't mean intentional lies but i mean the methods they are using of the BMI are false and inaccurate.We cant use a simple one size fits all scale to determine whether people are healthy or not.This method is too simplified and incorrect & doesn't take things like peoples frame into consideration.
Sometimes healthy athletes find themselves out of the Normal Weight range on the BMI.
Angelina Jolie is attractive but so are 500 other women in hollywood.I dont know why the media seems to single her out & talk about her like shes the most gorgeous women in the world.There are other women in Hollywood that are just as equally or more attractive.I guess the media does that with men too like saying that about George Clooney but i find other male actors more attractive then him.
Voice of reason,
You look great and clearly very far from underweight in that photo.
Monroe doesn't look that much different than Hendricks. Then agian I'm not projecting any issues I have with my own body on other people. I do remember you mentioning you were a model once. That is all well and good but you need to come to terms with the fact you are so deeply entrenched in an industry that demands unnatural thinness from women you cannot make an objective calls on anyone's weight. I also find it funny someone who admittedly would have no medical trianing is making calls on anyone's health. You don't know anything about it.
I also find it laughable you claim to hold feminist ideals yet cling to patriarchy when it suits you. You can't have both worlds. Pick and camp and stay in it.
"Marilyn's body shape is supposed to be the ideal female body "
Says who?
And while I don't think you are a bad looking woman I think you are trying a wee bit hard to prove you are somehow better looking than Hendricks. She's the one with an acting career, magazine spreads and awards. You are the one spreading vitriol on the internet. Catch the big difference?
This is the picture I'm referring to, do I look like a skeleton? Unhealthy or healthy? You can clearly decide.
Paul,
You're delusional, if Christina Hendricks is healthy then according to you Marilyn Monroe would be skin and bones? Marilyn's body shape is supposed to be the ideal female body and clearly she is much more healthier so why do you insist Christina Hendricks is healthy? Like Godis said, she might be healthy but clearly she can be healthier and she is definitely not a healthy role model.
And as for me, I've already posted my picture before, have a look and you will see I am not skin and bones but actually healthy and curvy. I am a size 8, 32 C 25 35 which is obviously not anorexic but not fat like Miss Hendricks either who is size 14, 38DD (keeps changing and I suspect she uses padding) 30 40.
Paul,
Sorry for the late reply. I had connection problems. Anyway, I agree that the rigid definitions of 'man' and 'woman' do not accurately reflect the actual reality of sexuality(whether gay, straight or bi) and sexual identity(male or female) both on a biological and a psychological level. Instead of having absolute extremities for the population, we have to redefine these states of sexual being as a function that is continuous over this range, consisting of a combination of the two(straight or gay) in various proportions except at the end points. It would not surprise me if the result is a normal distribution, i.e. most people have bisexual or close to bisexual predispositions but are conditioned by society, culture e.t.c to suppress them. Furthermore, it comes as no surprise that these crude definitions still hold as I believe they are due to strict cultures and religions which are reluctant to modification and intellectual advancement at least in this area. We live in a world where individuals persistently deny the evidence right in front of them. I sometimes find myself wishing we were more like the 'Vulcans' from 'Star Trek', cold logical beings.
I looked at the link to the article you provided. I have read it before, I did so again to ensure I remembered it fully. I am still unconvinced. Choosing specific examples does not constitute a statistical analysis and there are other factors to consider:
1. SEXUAL CONSIDERATIONS: Are the designers themselves(assuming they are largely gay) choosing models they find sexually pleasing? If not then their sexuality is irrelevant. It is important to note that this may be down to aesthetics not related to sexuality e.g. babies are mostly considered highly attractive without the sexual component. They may find the models striking or photogenic or whatever, I hear that being said a lot.
2.Cause and effect considerations i.e. did the industry set the standard or was it a result of a larger cultural phenomena?(Because something is prominent to an observer does not imply it is the cause).
3. Is it an after-effect of the obesity crisis in the developed world? Think back to the force-feeding example I gave in one of my other posts, this happens in the third world especially in the poorest of countries where food is scarce and the population is largely malnutrition and thus underweight. In both these cases, you identify immediately the commonality. A largely unattainable ideal, the definition of beauty. 'Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder' springs to mind. Most people look at the bright side of this saying, that everyone is beautiful. I look at the rational implication of this statement, that beauty is subjective. Now, we know that humans are species of collective tendencies on a large scale with very little divergence from the collective norm. We conclude that that it is expected that beauty standards change over time.
There are other factors to be considered but I'll submit and stop at these. It CAN'T be as simple as 'Gay men in fashion = skinny relatively masculine models'
About the weight issue, as I said underweight women have no discernible hip, buttock and thigh fat thus achieve the less feminine look. The 'standard' says 'skinny is the ideal' and by reducing the hip width, you get closer to that ideal. Looking more masculine is not the goal, being and looking skinny is. The masculinity is an inevitable result of this change. Hence my assertion that weight is the main issue.
Yeah, the attempt to achieve an accurate representation of the era may be behind Christina's success. Try to imagine her in Angelina's movies(e.g. Wanted or Lara croft movies), she just doesn't fit. What I'm saying is that the standing of women in movies has become more masculine. The women are taller and they beat up and are sometimes significantly more powerful than men. When we look at how our society has defined femininity in the past we soon realize that it had the characteristics of vulnerability, weakness, grace(instead of brute force) and the constant need to be protected. This shift in the representation of women may have resulted in a psychological 'ripple' necessitating that they look more masculine to provide realism. I don't know. You may consider this my number 4 consideration in the list above. I think Christina is practically perfect but the rest of the public seem to not think so. I can't believe she doesn't even make it into the 'most beautiful women' lists! It's crazy!
mary,
I don't know what "lies" you mean that are spread by the medical industry. When it comes to health, the only real lies I see are what is pushed forth from the media which is sourced by the fashion industry. Even if people aren't avid followers of the fashion industry, the influence is all over the media. In the last few decades, women advertised as beautiful have become underweight and only very highly masculine women are shown while physical feminine features like wide hips and prominent backsides being labeled as undesirable.
Healthy weight ranges are relative to the height of each person, but thanks to the distortion of the media and what it promotes and declares many people don't know what they are looking at anymore that is healthy. This is why member "Voice of Reason" for example thinks she is a healthy weight when she is not and yet she sees a very healthy woman like Hendricks and thinks she is overweight.
Even though you have a better stance on this issue than her, I see the influence of the zeitgeist in your reply when you describe Hendricks as "heavy set". Even though you then claim you don't mean it as "overweight" that is how this term is correctly used as. In other words, even though you don't mean it as such you give off a negative slant. This is directly connected to the fact that you say you don't find her ascetically beautiful but it wouldn't be so far as for me to suppose how much of what is and has been promoted as beautiful that you have been exposed to has influenced you to believe this.
Also, we need to consider here the perspective. Assuming you are a heterosexual female, your view of Ms. Hendricks would be of less importance than someone like myself who is a heterosexual male. Earlier I used the example of how silly it would be for me to comment and criticize a George Clooney since I am a heterosexual man and therefore what would I really know compared to a straight female? The reason we (men) don't engage in these kinds of discussions and comments about other men is because our culture doesn't dictate that we should. Women however, are subjected to tons of nonsense from the media on how specifically to dress to how they should look to what they wear, etc... from mostly an ignorant and selfish group of marketers. Many think this is correct information and therefore express this to each other as if they are imparting real knowledge.
As far as aesthetics and beauty the only difference between them is that beauty is not only subjective, it can be manipulated by the media who can groom a society to believe what is attractive according to how they see fit. People who are not influenced by the media can identify health and this can increase the chances of physical attraction. Heterosexual men for example are wired to find healthy women with very high feminine physical features attractive. Thanks to the media however, this has been subdued considerably.
I personally don't find Angelina Jolie, as she looks now, attractive whatsoever. She looked better many years ago. Now she is very underweight and her face looks more "manly" to me which could be a combination of the lower weight she is at now and possible plastic surgery. The media though promotes her as the ultimate woman and many fall victim to the propaganda. It is no coincidence that for me Christina Hendricks as she looks now is far, far more attractive than Angelina Jolie. She is at a healthy weight while Jolie is not and that plays a big role.
P.S.
It is interesting that you gave your stats. From my conversion calculations you would be 5'6 and 130 pounds right? Therefore you would be of the same height as "Voice of Reason". She claimed at 115lbs her BMI is healthy and at 21 which is incorrect and she is underweight. However, you at the same height but with 15 more pounds on you. That funny enough averages to a BMI of 21.
I don't think Christian Hendricks will have any issues with medical Problems.There is a tendency for the Medical Industry and the media to say that all people over a certain weight will have medical problems including heart disease,cholesterol etc but this is a fallacy.
This only applies to some people.It depends on how the weight is carried.
For example one person can carry extra weight but have no breathing difficulties and be full of health and vibrancy-take some large Opera singers for example.
On the otherhand though there can be some people that are large that dont carry the weight well & they are too large for what their frame is meant to be and they get health problems including breathing difficulties and extra work placed on the heart.
I do think that unless shes strong and really likes herself that she could possibly get emotional problems because of pressure from the media because there a tendency for the media to say that someone like her shape is overweight and needs to slimdown and the media is very harsh,cruel,overcritical and often unrealistic.
Her size is fine for her and January Jones size is fine for her.Neither of them look like they are about to collapse from either obesity or anorexia.They both look within healthy range limits just both different.
There is a tendency i feel on this site for people to project their own issues instead of looking at things objectively.
The media is similar.It has basically one ideal ok weight that everyone is meant to be a cardboard copy of each other and there is no room for acceptance of different body types and that they all can be equally attractive.
The media attempts to equate womens value and worth with their body shape,or breast size etc and makes it harder for all of us.
I dont think that Christina Hendricks will have any health issues from "obesity"-shes just heavy set, and i am by no means an overweight women just saying that to make myself feel better.
I am 170cm and 59kg so i am by no means large, i just have an issue with the lies spread by medical industry that all larger people are unhealthy & cant breathe or that all super slim people are unhealthy and anorexic.Thats not the case always.
People are individuals and some are naturally heavy set and some are naturally skinny but without health risks.
We are all different and cant be all measured by the same tool.
Aesthetically wise,Christian Hendrix look is a bit too large for what i consider aesthetically beautiful but aesthetics is different from health.
Also i dont know whats going on with her lips here?
Why do some people get lip enhancements when sometimes they end up looking worse and stranger when their lips looked perfectly good before
Miranda also had breast augmentation!!!!!!
plasticccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
First I'll reply to Voice of Reason:
Christina Hendricks is not "fat". If "fat" you mean by the distorted media and the society it grooms then sure. But if by "fat" you mean from a sane and healthy educated mind? No. She is not fat. She looks really good to me and if she were fat I'd know and wouldn't be attracted to her as much as I am. She seems to be more or less in the middle of her healthy weight range and she looks very good to me (I am a heterosexual man). And because she is curvy the weight distributes beautifully on her frame accentuating her femininity.
You seem to have this distorted sadly. I say sadly because I think it was you who went up against Emily in numerous posts and seemed to be of a far healthier view then her on race and such. But perhaps when it comes to body issues, you are misguided.
I see the problem immediately in your report on your own BMI. You say you are 5'6 and 115 pounds and declare this gives a BMI of 21. I don't know where you got this from because on no BMI chart or calculator I have seen does a 5'6 and 115 body appear as healthy. Depending on what chart you use, it's either a 18-19 and on each of those charts it's identified as underweight. Ironic, since you mistakenly suggest that Hendricks will have health problems but on your stats it is you who will if you don't gain some pounds.
Godis,
No offense, a lot of what you are saying seems to come from your mental consumption of stereotypes. First, single mothers out there have nothing to do with your argument. That is related to practicing bad sex habits and poor standards of responsibility on the parts of the fathers (assuming they are still alive).
As a man I can tell you for a fact what is going on from a man's perspective. Men are selective but it's mostly only when they have the opportunity for choice. If they don't, then they tend to get desperate and lower their standards. Mind you these "standards" are relative but trust me if you were to ask any man, especially the ones you see that would go to bed with anything, that if they had the power of choice of who to sleep with then they wouldn't be sleeping with just anything that comes in their way. Too many men don't know how to approach women and that's why so many depend on liquor and other "social lubricants" at parties and such. Women do this too, although perhaps for different reasons mostly.
I also want to stress that having many sexual partners and not wanting to commit to them is not directly related to lowering of standards. A person can be at a point in their life where they are not interested in a relationship beyond sex even if the person's personality suits them.
The reason for me "calling you out" is because you seem to be more level headed than people like Emily and others. There is no point in even engaging in a discussion with people like her on an internet blog. However, you seem to have some insecurities and project them into your discussions and some are misguided.
I've already tackled a bit on Hendricks with Voice of Reason in this post, but to specifically respond to your comments. I am going to guess that you are very fashion oriented and/or have been very inspired by fashion industry like mindsets. From your comments on wanting thinness or at least thinking this is best suited to all woman, erroneously claiming that Hendricks breasts size would only appeal to people with a fetish to even using the dreaded "in proportion" argument that I see so many fashion fans use... you are very misinformed.
You are also not appreciating the perspective I am giving you as a man. You are wrong to assume that only men with a fetish would find her breasts attractive. You are wrong to assume that she lacks femininity because of "fat" which she is not. As another poster pointed out, you can clearly see her frame and it is much accentuated as is. If she were to actually become overweight then you would not see her hourglass figure.
Finally, this "athleticism" argument of yours is not relevant because not every person, man or woman, needs to be athletic which is different then just being in shape or healthy. You say, "Think of it in terms of survival." This concept is irrelevant and out dated in our day and age. We don't need to hunt for food anymore for example. And even in those days, the more feminine women were needed in order to bear healthy children. And to this day they are desired and I can tell you for a fact that it is no fetish to find a woman like Christina Hendricks attractive by many men. Being a women you have no idea what she does to a man's mind much like a heterosexual man would not understand what a George Clooney (or insert any male celebrity who turns you on if he doesn't) would do to a woman's mind. The fact that you keep pushing on what you think she should look like would be just as silly as me suggesting what Goerge Clooney should look like. She is not built for someone like you like a Clooney isn't for me.
I see a lot of women taking this position and it's pretty obvious where it comes from. The media "informing" women on how they "should" look and what is supposedly correct (all directly and indirectly guided by the fashion industry) is nonsense and I see a lot of that coming through in your posts. I hope you stop paying attention to this kind of source.
I believe that that the role of "man" and "woman" have largely been negatively influenced by male dominated societies and cultures. The fact that there are very "masculine" women and even "feminine" men prove that the traditional gender roles do not apply all of the time and should not be always expected to. There is nothing wrong with this except to those still stuck in the out dated concept.
P.S.
You posted a picture of your body. Not sure if that was the "before" or "after". In any case, was this what Emily and others referred to as "fat"? You aren't fat at all there. But you should know by now that people like Emily are about the worst kind of people to be treating seriously considering how mentally twisted she is.
In that picture, you look quite good. Nice bust too. ;)
"Fourth of all, Christina Hendricks is not necessarily fat. However she's got meat on her and in my opinion although she appears healthy she could always be tad bit healthier."
You are nitpicking. If you have a problem with other women looking good you need to take some time out and come to terms with how you feel about yourself. Good looking women don't hurt you. Quit projecting your issues on to other people. You don't what she does, you don't know how she eats. Quit judging because you just look ignorant. We don't all look the same at our healthy weight.
Violet Corpus,
First of all I thought you were a dude?
Second of all, the woman standing next to Christina Hendricks in your photo is a toothpick.
Third of all, yeah I got really sensitive about gaining weight and being "plump" haha.
Fourth of all, Christina Hendricks is not necessarily fat. However she's got meat on her and in my opinion although she appears healthy she could always be tad bit healthier.
I'm a firm believer in proper diet and exercise. I don't think people look good fat or skinny. I think they look good at the right weight, where they are the healthiest and exercising a little bit.
I think almost everyone gets fat at some point in their life. Well, not everyone, but you know, this is the U.S.A. I got fat from bad college food... no really people don't believe me they think its the alcohol, which I don't even drink a lot of, the food is really that bad. They soak everything in butter or deep fry it.
But, I think everyone should get up and work out and eath a tad bit healthier. That is hilarious coming from me too, because I eat junk. But really, for your own good, everyone should be trying a little to be heatlhier. It's not about being fat or thin, but healthy.
"I am in two minds about it because on one hand you do want people to be happy with the way they are, but then what about the health risks and all the issues that come along with being chubby? How can you ignore that?"
Except she's not medically over weight. You clearly have no idea what the standards are. All you know if what you look like and it's not helping your perspective any.
"Dark women come across as dynamic, sexy, sultry and also impure at times". Why, thank you, Emily! I love being all those things! Also I have read that men are more likely to have blue eyes... but only by about 5-6%. Not a big number, but I thought it was worth mentioning. I think all hair and eye colors are pretty. I don't decide someone's personality based off of coloring. I personally think brown eyes (which happens to be what I have) are quite friendly and sweet looking. I think they fill up the face more. I am all for expressing your opinion, I just think you take the whole light vs dark thing very seriously. Obviously you have light hair and eyes and posting all those comments about them make you feel better. Well, Emily, I don't know what you look like, but I will tell you that you are beautiful and have gorgeous hair and eyes. I feel the need to say that because, judging by your posts, you may not hear it enough.
Yeah, tell her that when she gets the health problems, psychological issues that are associated with being overweight.
She's become a synonym for chubby girls, you see Christina Hendricks type everywhere particularly so because the media says it's okay to be that way and I find it a bit wrong.
I am in two minds about it because on one hand you do want people to be happy with the way they are, but then what about the health risks and all the issues that come along with being chubby? How can you ignore that?
Stand her next to January Jones who is more normal sized and there's clearly a size difference.
I like this site for some things and dislike it for others. I would love it if I looked anything like the feminine women on here, but I don't. It is frustrating because I am not thin and tall enough for the media to like me and I am not feminine enough for this site to like me. I actually like my face and body, but I wish I had some women out there who were famous and looked like me so I didn't feel so left out. I like this site because it is showing the opposite of what the media shows me. So there is some balance there. I wish I looked more feminine, but sadly I don't. I will never get plastic surgery! I don't have high testosterone levels and I have never been mistaken for a man so I think I am okay! The parts that I think are more masculinized on me are my hips, forehead, and hairline. I am 5'4" so I guess that is more feminine and my breasts are larger.
tyra is so full of shit....and rude...talking over others just so no one can b right but her.....what a flop. shes extremely self absorbed and ignorant
I'm 5'7 and 135 pounds, if I was fat i'd have no problems telling you. I have no problems with being ugly. It's not a death sentence and it's not a bad thing. It's just a part of life. You get over it. Furthermore the listed height for Hendricks is 5'7 or 5'8 If Hendricks was twice your size she'd be 235 pounds. I'm going off what has been said about her in the media. She's said to be between 130 to 140 pounds. She has not been getting a ton of negative press. She's being doing quite well.
Rawr,
You clearly have some issues, firstly you've got self esteem issues, you've said you're very ugly, that's in your own words before you start accusing me.
Also you've got some kind of hatred for women, you've just dismissed me as another harpy, I guess I touched on a nerve when I pointed out the bitterness I sense in you which is misdirected particularly at Godis and VC. Worry for my life!? Lol this is the internet, are you going to fire cyber bullets at me?
As for being Christina being fat, that's how she will be judged by the media and the public and the men in her life, not me. And her BMI, you're clearly a LIAR, I am 5'6 and my weight is 115 lbs, my BMI is 21 so there is no way she is below 22, she is double my size at the same height!
I would normally recommend that people be happy with the way they are but I'm afraid her weight is an issue and has been as evidenced by all the negative press. Maybe you're fat as well, no wonder you'd like to believe Christina Hendricks is thin which is the last thing she is. Don't delude yourself!
"I think you're being a bit mean here, why the bitterness? You sound like a rational intelligent person and I admire the way that you've posted your rebuttal and argued your case but I sense a lot of bitterness towards others, I can understand if you posted the bitterness towards deluded bigots such as Emily and others, and to a lesser degree Erik but I don't think Godis or VC deserves that sort of treatment."
I will choose who I feel is worthy of my tongue lashing. Worry about your own life. From your pronouncements on who happens to be fat it would appear you aren't anything more then a not-so-bright, deluded and programmed female yourself. Christina Hendricks' BMI is between 19.8 and 22 Percent. Either you are just a harpy or you seriously want to see this woman medically underweight.
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