I can't imagine thinking these types of post are okay. Seriously. To post pics of women and torture them with insults is an awful thing to do - whether it's 'cause they are fat or skinny. They look manly because they are skinny - society pushes it on them.
Since this is the most recently active discussion that intersects with ethnic traits and innate beauty standards, let me drive the point home a tad more about how so much of this debate seems to act like whites don't have their own ethnic features-
Does anybody think it's that likely for whites to never look "too ethnic" in certain cranio-facial traits? Apparently other groups can, but why not whites? The majority of these ethnic plasic surgeries focus on nasal structures, and seem to be more convergent towards european standards.
How lovely, you are imparting your ignorance to the world. Nice will all the paintings however the most famous woman in portrayed on a painting in the entire world is THE MONA LISA which is far from what you describe as the "perfect beauty". And you should call Jessica Simpson and tell her that blonde hair inspire men to fall in love, because apparently she hasn't gotten the memo after her hot husband left her for a dark skin, dark haired, dark eye woman. Oh that hurts you doesn't it. Please stop embarrasing our race (caucasian) with your ignorant bigoted comments, some of us do not want to be associated with people like you.
Do not get so work up with Emily? First of all she is not Swedish, nor she does live in Sweden as she claims. Reason being that if she would live in Sweden she will know that most of the mannequins in the stores and ads of fashion models in Sweden, especially in Stockholm are from women of other cultures. Swedish men/women particularly prefer darker women/men. I am a French white woman who is engaged to a Swedish man originally from Stockholm and I actually told him to read some of Emily's post just for entertainment and he was laughing his head off at how far Emily is from what Swedish people like and how the culture is in the Scandinavian countries. Although there is a small percentage of diversity in Sweden, the few people that are living there are treated with equality and they mix and mingle with the rest of the population.
On another note, Emily seems to forget that 80% of the plastic surgeries in the US and Europe are performed by white women. Emily just like to speak out of her ass (pardon my French, lol). She has no evidence nor statistics for what she thinks beauty is all about, nor she has any concept of historical, economical and political facts. She probably believes that people from other races other than caucasian are probably not from a different species. Emily lives in the bigoted 50's, she hasn't progressed like the rest of the population.
Emily's Neanderthal thinking stems from insecurity other than anything. She probably lost her significant other to a woman from another race/ethnicity and this is her way of "getting back at her" for that. Emily please grow up and don't embarrass the rest of us, the caucasian population with your Neanderthal believe system. EVOLVE!
What hillbilly Southern state are you from? I am a French WHITE woman and I would never want to be associated with such a bigoted ignorant like yourself. You hate yourself that is why you have to put other people down. Probably a black woman/men stole your significant other and you feel less therefore the comments. I trully hope you evolve some brains. Now we know where all the Neanderthals went to, they evolved into people like yourself. Lol.
You know, the camera distorts the picture and so it gives a different appearance than what is there in reality. To be honest, I would say very few of the population is attractive to me, because we all really have different standards. To further support that beauty is in the eye of the beholder: "Using the golden ratio to describe facial beauty does not make the attempt objective" and ". If it is possible to derive the outline of a beautiful face from the golden ratio, then Marquardt certainly has not achieved this."
If you find European women the most attractive, then good for you, not all of us do. Beauty isn't objective, it is subjective. :)
There are women in some African countries that purposely send their daughters to "fat-camps" because the men (also the women) think that is beautiful. It is easy to use math to say oh no this is beautiful, but it holds no water in reality. If beauty was objective we would all experience it the same way - yet we do not.
When I said the masculinity among high fashion models is only slight, I was comparing them to the average man(call him A). These are the differences: First, even if these models have broad shoulders they are not similar to that of A whose shoulders are more powerful looking as a result of a larger bone structure, these women have small bone structures which is a feminine trait. Second, the facial features are also distinctively different from that of A, although some have sharp brow ridges they are not as prominent as that of A, they have angled but small jaws, low muscle compositions etc. In other words, despite their masculinity, if you spot one of them on the street you can actually tell she's female. I do not think we disagree here, maybe it was my careless use of the word 'slight'. I do concede that these traits are not slight compared to that of the average woman(but I was comparing them to A).
You are right about the under-appreciation of feminine beauty being of concern but I still think the core issue is weight. Taking your example of hip reduction: This surgery is usually accompanied by thigh reduction(and butt reduction in those well endowed) and involves liposuction, so no bone material is cut, only the subcutaneous fat is removed. The fat is stored in the areas as a result of oestrogen. This fat is generally significantly lower in underweight women who are now regarded as attractive hence my assertion that the main issue is the weight. If these models were to gain more weight, their hips would expand, their jaws less pronounced, their brows rounder thus achieving a more feminine appearance.
Oh and yeah, I checked out Christina Hendricks(I didn't know her), wow she's gorgeous!!! A few years ago Angelina Jolie was also just angelic, now she's just plain, she ruined her beauty. I hope Christina stays the way she is and does not succumb to the pressure to be thin.
It seems we agree on the issue of some men being attracted to thin women and the influence of the media but yet you go on to contradict yourself. If these are 'the tastes of a gay man not a a straight man' then you are also saying no heterosexual men are attracted to these women. You have to realize that these women, although relatively masculine, are NOT men and they don't look like men(they look like masculine women!), so a man who is attracted to them(but not to men) is by definition straight. So you can have completely straight men being attracted to women who look like that. As I'm sure you'll agree, there's more to a woman than her looks e.g how she caries herself is a significant part of femininity. You also say that fashion designers are disproportionately gay, again where are the statistics? You do however make a plausible cause by the shifting fashion and beauty zeitgeist influencing the beauty standards, from this follows the conclusion that fashion designers are themselves influenced by this already existing standard. I think the gay hypothesis is implausible because this all started with Twiggy(the first international supermodel) back in in 50s-60's before the runway, she was a success, not because the gays told people to love her, they just did. That explains the bone skinny-standard.
This ludicrous beauty standards poses a grim future for women and more and more prominent women are getting thinner, setting a bad examples for young girls. An increasing number of girls as young as 9 have body issues. Our society has gone mad and it seems most of the worth of a woman is based on her looks.
If we agree on the influence hormones and genetics have on the skeletal system then you claiming that the masculine traits on the fashion models are only slight should not be coming through.
When one understands masculinity and femininity in the human body and face then it becomes as clear as day that the women are very masculine. Everything from the small features of the eyes, jaw, chin, eyebrows, overall shape of the face to the shoulders, hips, backside, height, etc... all point to masculinity. Not an opinion, just the way it is.
I can sympathize with your concern that saying this can come across as offensive to those women born highly masculine. However, do not confuse me with Erik as Erik's articles are can be quite derogatory in his examinations. Another thing is that this is a problem with the kind of world we live in where only one kind of standard is set and variety is not appreciated when it comes to women.
This leads me to the point of how weight is not the sole issue here and unlike what you suggest should not be the only factor that needs to be addressed. Again, at one point in the media age in the mainstream very feminine women were celebrated for their curves. This is not the case anymore as not only is this rarely advertised, but it is shunned upon by the media and in many social circles. Women who possess very feminine physical attributes feel ashamed and are treated as if they are defective with some even getting plastic surgery to "correct" their curves like hip reduction. This is a problem and the source is the fashion industry which promotes only underweight and very masculine women.
I don't think you understood me entirely in your reply on the paragraph in regards to Hip Hop magazines and pornography. You say that I think men are not attracted to what is advertised in the mainstream. Two things. First, not every man is. How many truly are I do not know. What I do know is that many men are not genuine about this. Many have been "programmed" by the media to qualify underweight and highly masculine women as very desirable. I know this because I was once like that many years ago. Also, many men could be homosexuals or bisexuals and not realize it or keep it in the closet. Once again, comments like this may sound offensive but it has more to do with the homophobic world we live in that would comes across as that way.
That is why I also think you believe it is a "leap of faith" that one would say that it is a homosexual male influence that is being pushed forth in regards to what the standard is that is being set for females in the media. It is not homophobic. First, you have to acknowledge the influence the fashion industry has on all areas of the media nowadays. You cannot even watch an award show without some sort of "fashion police" segment on. It makes sense because of all of the modeling work a woman can do, fashion modeling is the "major" leagues in terms of fame and fortune. And the ones in high class are very susceptible to start taking in whatever is being set in their world that features elitism and exclusivity in order to further be apart of a high class society. If you do not meet this, you can be "punished" for it by not being hired for movie roles or be the victim of bad press.
One example is American actress Christina Hendricks. She is a rarity in the present Hollywood world. A white women who is very curvy and in a very healthy weight. She has said in interviews that because of this fashion designers do not provide her clothing for her to attend galas and award shows as opposed to most other actresses (ones that are underweight and more masculine).
Fashion designers are disproportionately gay. Not a theory but a fact. If one understands what being "gay" is then the very fact that the models being noticeably very masculine should not surprise. I am not theorizing a conspiracy theory here but what I am saying is that the fashion designers are simply picking models and further grooming them to their aesthetic tastes. That is, the tastes of a gay man not a straight man. After several decades of this standard being set up and established we now live in a world that is so heavily influenced by this that it has changed the zeitgeist to the point where some truly heterosexual men would see a woman who is curvy and healthy but call her "fat" and undesirable.
Finally, in terms of the "black beauty standard" what you are talking about has far less to do with a standard "set" and more to do with just the typical ethnic features seen in many black women. However I agree a different standard is at work but what this standard is that is "set" is a standard from a heterosexual perspective as the models are far more noticeably feminine than the ones seen in the mainstream, which was my point.
As far as the ladies getting "smaller" in that media, I agree with you. It shouldn't come to as surprise of why this is though. Many moguls in the Hip Hop world have lately been investing in the fashion industry with even their own fashion lines as well.
I am sorry if I missed the points you raised. However,I did not dispute the prevalence of masculine traits on high fashion models and yes I did read those articles the first time I visited this site. I am also aware of the influence hormones and genetics play on the skeletal system. It looks like we agree on these finer points.
Homosexuals: I understand your concern with eating disorders becoming almost epidemic by the promotion of unhealthy beauty standards, especially among young women. However, I still don't share your views on the homosexual issue. The reason for this is the statistics again, there are no articles of any statistical research carried out on this subject, you are making a 'leap of faith', the claim does not follow logically from the assumptions about the perceived masculinity of the women. Erik makes the same mistake. I did admit in my previous post that these women do possess some masculine traits but I made the claim that they are only slight.
Of course some women have higher levels of testosterone but they are nevertheless significantly lower than that of the average man(they are not men!), of course there are exceptions, for instance women with polycystic ovary syndrome. The thing is(you covered this in the first paragraph) most- if not all- people possess both masculine and feminine traits although one of the two is usually negligible in the respective sex. As I said, the masculine traits on the high fashion models are only slight but I do concede they are somewhat more significant than that of the average woman.
Furthermore, you have to realize that attacking the femininity(or lack thereof) of these models is not only irrelevant and uncalled for but also offensive to these women(this is my concern). The problem here is not their lack of perceived femininity but their unhealthy weight. That's what Erik should focus on. These women did not have a choice when it comes to their levels of femininity but most of them did when it comes to their weight. I admire Erik for creating this site, he has good intentions but he's misguided in his approach. WEIGHT is what he is supposed to focus on.
About the media: I was wrong about that one, the media(and culture) does have a greater influence on these standards. I just recalled a story about force feeding in some Middle Eastern and North African countries where obesity is a marital asset in females. Culture(of which the media is a large part of) does have a massive influence.
Of the 60's, Hip hop and porn: I did miss the point the first time. However, the problem is you assume men are not attracted to these women(those who appear mainstream), the truth is they are. Despite what you say the magazine, movie and porn sales are off the charts. Culture has convinced men that this is what beauty is and that's where the problem is.
Of the Black Beauty standard: I do accept the point you raised about the diversity of women in productions catering to mainly the black audience. Nevertheless, my point still stands, that a different beauty standard is at work, usually that of ladies with wide hips and well endowed in the 'butt department'. This generalization mostly holds whether the lady in question is a light or dark skinned black, Latino or Asian e.t.c.. I have notice however that the ladies in these videos are getting smaller.
All of the points in your reply means you do not know what physical masculinity and femininity is. This is specifically in reference to the natural levels of testosterone and estrogen in the human body. All humans, regardless of sex, have this and depending on those levels it influences the body of a person making it more masculine of feminine. This is not an opinion. It is a fact. There are several articles on this site that talk about this. Search for them and read them because it is very difficult to engage in conversation with you on this.
Topics like you thinking that a homosexual influence in the kinds of women advertised in the mainstream is ridiculous are related to this.
I will say that trying to see it from your perspective perhaps you only read some articles thus far and have gotten a bad impression of this because of Erik's wording when talking about homosexuals. Personally, Erik comes across as a homophobe in numerous articles (as well as a racist) and this is one of the biggest flaws of this site. I expressed in a previous post how I hope one day another site by someone else emerges that tackles the same issues but with none of the negative slant Erik brings along.
In any case, many articles Erik has brought do have merit. The ones on homosexuals having an influence on the kind of female figure we see advertised today and on masculinity and femininity in the faces and bodies of both men and women are among them. Look them up as they are worth the read.
Some other points:
- You are not appreciating the influence that the media can have on people enough. You say there is a "limit". You use an overweight person as some sort of proof of this. However, many women and models that are advertised in the mainstream of our current society are mostly underweight. This is unhealthy and yet this has been accepted in the mainstream as attractive and desirable for one main reason. The media. Many people do not know what a healthy weight is on a girl thanks to the images promoted on TV, movies and in print. Since this has been going on for decades several generations have been programed into thinking a certain way because of the enormous influence that the fashion industry has on other areas and fields in the entertainment industry.
- You completely missed my point of Hip Hop magazines/videos. I mentioned this because of the physical femininity that the models in that field have. These models have figures and faces that are very feminine. This was to prove how in a field were heterosexuals dominate, women who are noticeably more feminine will be used in such media against the mainstream media of the current world. Again, please look up the articles on physical masculinity and femininity on this site to understand what I am talking about.
- You also misunderstood it when I mentioned porn. I'll make myself clearer. The companies that sell "normal" straight sex titles that are aiming to be more mainstream (i.e. Vivid) feature women that are closer to what is seen in mainstream media than those companies that do not aim to be more mainstream which feature girls that are more feminine.
- Your comments of the "black beauty standard" are grossly stereotyped. The women appreciated in media aimed at a Hip Hop audience and/or a specific black audience are much more diverse than you allow.
- In regards to 60s women, one again you missed my point because you are not understanding the issue of physical masculinity and femininity. The women in that era were noticeably more feminine and were in much healthier weight. Curves were also celebrated. This is in stark contrast to the world now and this change was entirely due to the fashion industries hold right after this era which went to alter it in all of mainstream media.
You misunderstand me. By slender I do not mean bone skinny, I mean reasonably slim. I did say that mainstream models do over-do it just like us tend to want Anold Schwarzenegger type muscles but most women find them repulsive. I did say Ginger's body is perfect and it is by the way, slender. Ginger's body is below average in terms of size. The fashion and advertisement industries say '... slim sells' and that's true but they overdo it. Still these women's bodies do sell but bodies like Ginger's would too. You also talk about the media's influence, there is some truth in that but there is a limit. If you use someone overweight, trust me, you can never hope to convince the public that they are attractive, you just can't. So to summarize, men on average would prefer bodies like Ginger's but they still find these models attractive.
About the homosexual thing: I'm sorry, I'm still not convinced and stating it repeatedly does not constitute an argument, it's an empty claim. Has there been a statistical analysis on the matter? Has it been demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that this is the case? If not I suggest you guys drop this homosexual nonsense, otherwise you are making yourselves look irrational. If however, you have this information, please display it on the website.
Hip-hop magazines are mainly run by blacks who, I'm sorry to say, would NOT find Ginger's body attractive in the slightest degree. They have a different standard of beauty that has it's roots in Africa. Trust me, Ginger is a 2 by African standards!
About the 60's women: Sure the standard here has changed but still those women were nevertheless unattractive by the Black beauty standard(their butts were too flat, their hips too narrow and yes, they were too skinny!!!). Also, the feature these women in the 60's magazine all had in common was slenderness(like Ginger, bigger than her was bad), even the black ones conformed.
Porn shows all sizes and kinds of women, even skinny ones like models(think flexible ones- a big hit!). I do agree that some of these models have some masculine traits, but they are only slight, I mean they look like women! Any man who looks like them would look silly!
Beznik Horvath,
Good post. Although I would take the old cliche of, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" as not just having some truth, but being completely true.
First of all the vast majority of Asians don't want to get plastic surgery. This phenomenon is clearly due to the prevelance of American consumerism and the fact that for at least a little while longer whites are dominant in the world. Fifty years from now I doubt any Asian women will be getting those surgeries. I honestly think this site is complete crap. I happen to fins women with rounder heads quite beautiful. African women can be very beautiful especially Ethiopian women. They actually share a similiar bone structure to the Scandinavian women you so highly praised. I love the way traditional Muslim women dress eith their head scarf and the dress. A veil over the face seems too much but I haven't seen a woman with one of those in the US. I wish American women would dress more modestly and wear dresses more often I miss dresses. The women I find the most attractive are usually Latina or Native American, especially more curvy women. I think people who are naturally skinny can be attractive I am just stating what personally excites me. I am romani and there are also a lot of romani women that are very beautiful and it seems most people would agree with me. As far as "White" women go Serbian women are often very beautiful. Unfortunately serbian women are often exploited for their good looks and poverty but the whole world knows Serbs are beautiful people. Sure there are plenty of beautiful Scandinavian women but as a group they are not the most attractive to me. I had a discussion about this once. Blondes have become the fantasy of less men. Blondes are not as big of a deal anymore in America. But if only 25% of men were into blondes only three percent of women are true blondes so blondes remain very attractive, and so will the nordic beauties you are all so crazy about. But at least not everyone is after the same women. This site seems like it is run by a bunch of Neo Nazis but ask yourself do you want your site to suceed in its goal of promotig white as the best. What if you convince me your right and I decide Mexican women are ugly and go after those Nordic girls and I take one you could have gotten. What if all the men in the world were only interested in white women. Obviously there are a lot of people that think white women are the most beautiful but almost no ones gonna try to make the cast that white men are the best looking or most attractive in the world. I think it is natural that maybe about a third of the young women in the world are beautiful a third somewhat pretty and another third just aren't. If only a tiny percentage of women in the world were beautiful then humanity would be screwed up. There is some truth to the whole beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to get more excited talking to the cleaning ladies at the hotel than watching Heidi Klum at the latest fashion show with a lineup of women that look like they just got let out of a concentration camp
Lots of high fashion models have bodies like this. Anya Kazakova, a current runway favourite, practically books all of the shows, yet I wouldn't describe her physique as resembling an adolescent boy.
I want to take the moment to applaud what you are doing here. When I found this site I was actually quite relieved at first to find a website that was addressing the many concerns I have with the mainstream media's promotion of women. Every thing from being underweight to feminine physical attributes like wide hips being scorned and considered unattractive and undesirable were things that made no sense to me. Especially the fanatical reactions from many who worship stars and models and even those girls and women who feel bad about themselves because they are not what the media and what others who parrot the media's propaganda say.
Sadly, the more and more I read this website the more and more I became discontented with it. First, it seems to me that the owner of this site is homophobic. While I do agree with him totally that what we see promoted in the mainstream in regards to women is due to the homosexual dominance from the fashion industry, he seems to be coming from a place of dislike of them. In the article about Carrie Prejean, the way he talks about homosexuals and his wording is with a very negative gross grouping (i.e. "Homosexuals and their allies") that is in stark contrast to the highly clinical he comes across in other articles.
Second, this website is tinged with racism. Notice, that the website is called "Feminine Beauty" with the tagline of "The type of beauty that befits a woman". And yet, there are only Caucasian women featured and discussed. Then shouldn't the website logically be called, "Caucasian Feminine Beauty"? By the logic of this name and the tagline, one would easily infer that the message is that the ideal feminine beauty is one of Caucasians' only.
He does give reasons for not including non-whites in one of his sections but they hardly convince. For one, while it is true that the fashion industry is mostly marketed to whites, that does not mean that all other races are left unscathed. There are many women of color that are feeling the negative effects of this. Especially when the feminine attributes that are deemed undesirable like wide hips or prominent backsides are "given" to those of color by the mainstream media with the message that these are defective people of some kind.
Also, in some other pages he words his articles as if other races naturally want to be white or prefer it because of plastic surgeries and other procedures that some undergo. However, he actually rejects the obvious truth that monopoly image of whites in the media around the world has everything to do with that.
And finally, his continual defense of the poster here "Emily". Emily has made it more than abundantly clear that she is a white supremacist and yet without even her asking for it, Erik has defended her time and time again in the many reply sections of the articles on this website. I have seen him ask that other posters stop posting here because they were causing trouble and were nuisances but has never done so against Emily despite her posts full of hate and vitriol. In fact, he has even defended some of her racist rants. One time, Emily compared a race to animals which a poster, naturally, took offense to and called her out on it. Erik, again without being asked, defended Emily's comment by actually suggesting there is nothing wrong with the comparison.
It is a real tragedy that this website is pretty much the only one of its kind (that I am aware of). The tragedy is because of the many truths in it but sadly the person behind it is a racist and a homophobe. I really hope that another one can emerge that dissects this issue with no prejudices attached.
So Elle, it is a breath of fresh air to see someone like yourself posting against that kind of junk here. Much of what you say are things that not only are not in Erik's articles (like the influence of the media having to do with preferences of "white" features) but also not in many other poster's replies here on this website. I hope you'll get to read this post of mine here and reply back.
P.S.
If anyone, including Erik, can prove 100% he is not a racist or homophobic then please do.
Tim89,
What is "slender"? If by that you mean what is being advertised in the media then no. Most heterosexual men do not find this attractive.
You seem to confuse this being a natural desire of men with how the media influences people's thoughts and how they think. Many people on this board, including the owner of this site it seems, appear to not realize this.
The conclusion that what we see in the media of what is advertised as attractive women comes from a homosexual male influence is not ridiculous in the slightest when you are able to understand what is masculinity and femininity in the physical sense. When this is understood you quickly start to realize how physical femininity is shunned and even considered embarrassing attributes to possess (i.e. wide hips) in the mainstream. Then you compare the era of the mid 60s and back and see a very different kind of women that was admired. One more feminine. It is clear that the fashion industry changed this.
Further proof can be seen in media that does not have a homosexual male influence present. Things like Hip Hop magazines/videos and many pornography companies (although not surprisingly, with the exception of the more "mainstream" ones like Playboy or Vivid) feature very highly feminine women.
Godis,
if you had a body like Ginger's, it's a shame to hear that you don't anymore. Her's is a very lovely body.
By the way, was it you that suggested in another post from another article that the actress Christina Hendricks should lose 20 something pounds to be more feminine?
"The majority of people have both feminine features in their face and body overall.
It is better this way too because imagine being a woman with double d size breasts and sloping shoulders etc trying to play tennis.
Having both feminine and masculine features is more conducive to this society today.
Extreme femininity might have been ok for the society in the 1950's but today it would not be beneficial in a world where women today play sports or have occupations outside the 1950's type roles of mother,secretary,nurse or cook."
Mary, while I know your post means well it is very erroneous. Actually, what you suggest here is that masculinity is better regardless of sex.
However not every women, like every man, wants to play sports. To say that women are better not having entirely feminine bodies because of only some women playing sports is misguided.
In fact, look at women who do play sports. It is not surprising that more often than not these women are highly masculine physically. That easily leads to the conclusion that it is a relative thing and not something that should be reflected on all humans.
Also, there are so many physical activities that a person can do that can be better suited for an individual. For example, yoga is a very good option for exercise for women who have large breasts but don't want to do something like running.
The majority of people have both feminine features in their face and body overall.
It is better this way too because imagine being a woman with double d size breasts and sloping shoulders etc trying to play tennis.
Having both feminine and masculine features is more conducive to this society today.
Extreme femininity might have been ok for the society in the 1950's but today it would not be beneficial in a world where women today play sports or have occupations outside the 1950's type roles of mother,secretary,nurse or cook.
The model posted doesn't have a masculine face.Her face is not masculinised-its far from masculine.It would fall on a scale somewhere between feminine-masculine and leaning very much more towards feminine.
She has very masculine and wide shoulders,smallish breasts and (assuming that one photo is accurate) a flat bottom.
She also has feminine features like her face,lips,hips and face profile.
Eriks Attractive women section isnt about having the most gorgeous woman there but about which women he finds attractive.He finds women with extreme femininity attractive and the photos are meant to suggest and represent that.I think his point is that feminine women are attractive and that he finds them more attractive then masculinised women and the section is meant to serve as a contrast to the masculine women in the fashion industry so i think he chose photos of women that are feminine in general and not photos of the most beautiful woman in the world or best lips or professional makeup or height requirement etc.His site is about femininity vs masculinity not about who is the most gorgeous.
Still,he should use photos that are not pornography.Theres alot of stock images or art model photos he could have used instead.
Visitor,
You shouldnt be trusting Eriks judgement regardless of whether he is in 20's,30's,40's,80's or whatever.
"Now Erik's excuse is that every woman on the planet, no matter how feminine, will display at least one or two slightly masculine or pseudo masculine etc. trait."
I don't know where he says said that. I think that's basically the same thing as saying "nobody is perfect". Which is true. When it comes to the face, its very, very hard to find a woman who's perfectly feminine on every single account. Very hard.
I can't imagine thinking these types of post are okay. Seriously. To post pics of women and torture them with insults is an awful thing to do - whether it's 'cause they are fat or skinny. They look manly because they are skinny - society pushes it on them.
Since this is the most recently active discussion that intersects with ethnic traits and innate beauty standards, let me drive the point home a tad more about how so much of this debate seems to act like whites don't have their own ethnic features-
Does anybody think it's that likely for whites to never look "too ethnic" in certain cranio-facial traits? Apparently other groups can, but why not whites? The majority of these ethnic plasic surgeries focus on nasal structures, and seem to be more convergent towards european standards.
But what if theres a trait thats too european?
Sigh with all the race-mixing; what would be the use of studying physical anthropology in the future?
Emily,
How lovely, you are imparting your ignorance to the world. Nice will all the paintings however the most famous woman in portrayed on a painting in the entire world is THE MONA LISA which is far from what you describe as the "perfect beauty". And you should call Jessica Simpson and tell her that blonde hair inspire men to fall in love, because apparently she hasn't gotten the memo after her hot husband left her for a dark skin, dark haired, dark eye woman. Oh that hurts you doesn't it. Please stop embarrasing our race (caucasian) with your ignorant bigoted comments, some of us do not want to be associated with people like you.
Violet,
Do not get so work up with Emily? First of all she is not Swedish, nor she does live in Sweden as she claims. Reason being that if she would live in Sweden she will know that most of the mannequins in the stores and ads of fashion models in Sweden, especially in Stockholm are from women of other cultures. Swedish men/women particularly prefer darker women/men. I am a French white woman who is engaged to a Swedish man originally from Stockholm and I actually told him to read some of Emily's post just for entertainment and he was laughing his head off at how far Emily is from what Swedish people like and how the culture is in the Scandinavian countries. Although there is a small percentage of diversity in Sweden, the few people that are living there are treated with equality and they mix and mingle with the rest of the population.
On another note, Emily seems to forget that 80% of the plastic surgeries in the US and Europe are performed by white women. Emily just like to speak out of her ass (pardon my French, lol). She has no evidence nor statistics for what she thinks beauty is all about, nor she has any concept of historical, economical and political facts. She probably believes that people from other races other than caucasian are probably not from a different species. Emily lives in the bigoted 50's, she hasn't progressed like the rest of the population.
Emily's Neanderthal thinking stems from insecurity other than anything. She probably lost her significant other to a woman from another race/ethnicity and this is her way of "getting back at her" for that. Emily please grow up and don't embarrass the rest of us, the caucasian population with your Neanderthal believe system. EVOLVE!
What hillbilly Southern state are you from? I am a French WHITE woman and I would never want to be associated with such a bigoted ignorant like yourself. You hate yourself that is why you have to put other people down. Probably a black woman/men stole your significant other and you feel less therefore the comments. I trully hope you evolve some brains. Now we know where all the Neanderthals went to, they evolved into people like yourself. Lol.
You know, the camera distorts the picture and so it gives a different appearance than what is there in reality. To be honest, I would say very few of the population is attractive to me, because we all really have different standards. To further support that beauty is in the eye of the beholder: "Using the golden ratio to describe facial beauty does not make the attempt objective" and ". If it is possible to derive the outline of a beautiful face from the golden ratio, then Marquardt certainly has not achieved this."
If you find European women the most attractive, then good for you, not all of us do. Beauty isn't objective, it is subjective. :)
There are women in some African countries that purposely send their daughters to "fat-camps" because the men (also the women) think that is beautiful. It is easy to use math to say oh no this is beautiful, but it holds no water in reality. If beauty was objective we would all experience it the same way - yet we do not.
Paul,
When I said the masculinity among high fashion models is only slight, I was comparing them to the average man(call him A). These are the differences: First, even if these models have broad shoulders they are not similar to that of A whose shoulders are more powerful looking as a result of a larger bone structure, these women have small bone structures which is a feminine trait. Second, the facial features are also distinctively different from that of A, although some have sharp brow ridges they are not as prominent as that of A, they have angled but small jaws, low muscle compositions etc. In other words, despite their masculinity, if you spot one of them on the street you can actually tell she's female. I do not think we disagree here, maybe it was my careless use of the word 'slight'. I do concede that these traits are not slight compared to that of the average woman(but I was comparing them to A).
You are right about the under-appreciation of feminine beauty being of concern but I still think the core issue is weight. Taking your example of hip reduction: This surgery is usually accompanied by thigh reduction(and butt reduction in those well endowed) and involves liposuction, so no bone material is cut, only the subcutaneous fat is removed. The fat is stored in the areas as a result of oestrogen. This fat is generally significantly lower in underweight women who are now regarded as attractive hence my assertion that the main issue is the weight. If these models were to gain more weight, their hips would expand, their jaws less pronounced, their brows rounder thus achieving a more feminine appearance.
Oh and yeah, I checked out Christina Hendricks(I didn't know her), wow she's gorgeous!!! A few years ago Angelina Jolie was also just angelic, now she's just plain, she ruined her beauty. I hope Christina stays the way she is and does not succumb to the pressure to be thin.
It seems we agree on the issue of some men being attracted to thin women and the influence of the media but yet you go on to contradict yourself. If these are 'the tastes of a gay man not a a straight man' then you are also saying no heterosexual men are attracted to these women. You have to realize that these women, although relatively masculine, are NOT men and they don't look like men(they look like masculine women!), so a man who is attracted to them(but not to men) is by definition straight. So you can have completely straight men being attracted to women who look like that. As I'm sure you'll agree, there's more to a woman than her looks e.g how she caries herself is a significant part of femininity. You also say that fashion designers are disproportionately gay, again where are the statistics? You do however make a plausible cause by the shifting fashion and beauty zeitgeist influencing the beauty standards, from this follows the conclusion that fashion designers are themselves influenced by this already existing standard. I think the gay hypothesis is implausible because this all started with Twiggy(the first international supermodel) back in in 50s-60's before the runway, she was a success, not because the gays told people to love her, they just did. That explains the bone skinny-standard.
This ludicrous beauty standards poses a grim future for women and more and more prominent women are getting thinner, setting a bad examples for young girls. An increasing number of girls as young as 9 have body issues. Our society has gone mad and it seems most of the worth of a woman is based on her looks.
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If we agree on the influence hormones and genetics have on the skeletal system then you claiming that the masculine traits on the fashion models are only slight should not be coming through.
When one understands masculinity and femininity in the human body and face then it becomes as clear as day that the women are very masculine. Everything from the small features of the eyes, jaw, chin, eyebrows, overall shape of the face to the shoulders, hips, backside, height, etc... all point to masculinity. Not an opinion, just the way it is.
I can sympathize with your concern that saying this can come across as offensive to those women born highly masculine. However, do not confuse me with Erik as Erik's articles are can be quite derogatory in his examinations. Another thing is that this is a problem with the kind of world we live in where only one kind of standard is set and variety is not appreciated when it comes to women.
This leads me to the point of how weight is not the sole issue here and unlike what you suggest should not be the only factor that needs to be addressed. Again, at one point in the media age in the mainstream very feminine women were celebrated for their curves. This is not the case anymore as not only is this rarely advertised, but it is shunned upon by the media and in many social circles. Women who possess very feminine physical attributes feel ashamed and are treated as if they are defective with some even getting plastic surgery to "correct" their curves like hip reduction. This is a problem and the source is the fashion industry which promotes only underweight and very masculine women.
I don't think you understood me entirely in your reply on the paragraph in regards to Hip Hop magazines and pornography. You say that I think men are not attracted to what is advertised in the mainstream. Two things. First, not every man is. How many truly are I do not know. What I do know is that many men are not genuine about this. Many have been "programmed" by the media to qualify underweight and highly masculine women as very desirable. I know this because I was once like that many years ago. Also, many men could be homosexuals or bisexuals and not realize it or keep it in the closet. Once again, comments like this may sound offensive but it has more to do with the homophobic world we live in that would comes across as that way.
That is why I also think you believe it is a "leap of faith" that one would say that it is a homosexual male influence that is being pushed forth in regards to what the standard is that is being set for females in the media. It is not homophobic. First, you have to acknowledge the influence the fashion industry has on all areas of the media nowadays. You cannot even watch an award show without some sort of "fashion police" segment on. It makes sense because of all of the modeling work a woman can do, fashion modeling is the "major" leagues in terms of fame and fortune. And the ones in high class are very susceptible to start taking in whatever is being set in their world that features elitism and exclusivity in order to further be apart of a high class society. If you do not meet this, you can be "punished" for it by not being hired for movie roles or be the victim of bad press.
One example is American actress Christina Hendricks. She is a rarity in the present Hollywood world. A white women who is very curvy and in a very healthy weight. She has said in interviews that because of this fashion designers do not provide her clothing for her to attend galas and award shows as opposed to most other actresses (ones that are underweight and more masculine).
Fashion designers are disproportionately gay. Not a theory but a fact. If one understands what being "gay" is then the very fact that the models being noticeably very masculine should not surprise. I am not theorizing a conspiracy theory here but what I am saying is that the fashion designers are simply picking models and further grooming them to their aesthetic tastes. That is, the tastes of a gay man not a straight man. After several decades of this standard being set up and established we now live in a world that is so heavily influenced by this that it has changed the zeitgeist to the point where some truly heterosexual men would see a woman who is curvy and healthy but call her "fat" and undesirable.
Finally, in terms of the "black beauty standard" what you are talking about has far less to do with a standard "set" and more to do with just the typical ethnic features seen in many black women. However I agree a different standard is at work but what this standard is that is "set" is a standard from a heterosexual perspective as the models are far more noticeably feminine than the ones seen in the mainstream, which was my point.
As far as the ladies getting "smaller" in that media, I agree with you. It shouldn't come to as surprise of why this is though. Many moguls in the Hip Hop world have lately been investing in the fashion industry with even their own fashion lines as well.
Paul.
I am sorry if I missed the points you raised. However,I did not dispute the prevalence of masculine traits on high fashion models and yes I did read those articles the first time I visited this site. I am also aware of the influence hormones and genetics play on the skeletal system. It looks like we agree on these finer points.
Homosexuals: I understand your concern with eating disorders becoming almost epidemic by the promotion of unhealthy beauty standards, especially among young women. However, I still don't share your views on the homosexual issue. The reason for this is the statistics again, there are no articles of any statistical research carried out on this subject, you are making a 'leap of faith', the claim does not follow logically from the assumptions about the perceived masculinity of the women. Erik makes the same mistake. I did admit in my previous post that these women do possess some masculine traits but I made the claim that they are only slight.
Of course some women have higher levels of testosterone but they are nevertheless significantly lower than that of the average man(they are not men!), of course there are exceptions, for instance women with polycystic ovary syndrome. The thing is(you covered this in the first paragraph) most- if not all- people possess both masculine and feminine traits although one of the two is usually negligible in the respective sex. As I said, the masculine traits on the high fashion models are only slight but I do concede they are somewhat more significant than that of the average woman.
Furthermore, you have to realize that attacking the femininity(or lack thereof) of these models is not only irrelevant and uncalled for but also offensive to these women(this is my concern). The problem here is not their lack of perceived femininity but their unhealthy weight. That's what Erik should focus on. These women did not have a choice when it comes to their levels of femininity but most of them did when it comes to their weight. I admire Erik for creating this site, he has good intentions but he's misguided in his approach. WEIGHT is what he is supposed to focus on.
About the media: I was wrong about that one, the media(and culture) does have a greater influence on these standards. I just recalled a story about force feeding in some Middle Eastern and North African countries where obesity is a marital asset in females. Culture(of which the media is a large part of) does have a massive influence.
Of the 60's, Hip hop and porn: I did miss the point the first time. However, the problem is you assume men are not attracted to these women(those who appear mainstream), the truth is they are. Despite what you say the magazine, movie and porn sales are off the charts. Culture has convinced men that this is what beauty is and that's where the problem is.
Of the Black Beauty standard: I do accept the point you raised about the diversity of women in productions catering to mainly the black audience. Nevertheless, my point still stands, that a different beauty standard is at work, usually that of ladies with wide hips and well endowed in the 'butt department'. This generalization mostly holds whether the lady in question is a light or dark skinned black, Latino or Asian e.t.c.. I have notice however that the ladies in these videos are getting smaller.
Tim89,
All of the points in your reply means you do not know what physical masculinity and femininity is. This is specifically in reference to the natural levels of testosterone and estrogen in the human body. All humans, regardless of sex, have this and depending on those levels it influences the body of a person making it more masculine of feminine. This is not an opinion. It is a fact. There are several articles on this site that talk about this. Search for them and read them because it is very difficult to engage in conversation with you on this.
Topics like you thinking that a homosexual influence in the kinds of women advertised in the mainstream is ridiculous are related to this.
I will say that trying to see it from your perspective perhaps you only read some articles thus far and have gotten a bad impression of this because of Erik's wording when talking about homosexuals. Personally, Erik comes across as a homophobe in numerous articles (as well as a racist) and this is one of the biggest flaws of this site. I expressed in a previous post how I hope one day another site by someone else emerges that tackles the same issues but with none of the negative slant Erik brings along.
In any case, many articles Erik has brought do have merit. The ones on homosexuals having an influence on the kind of female figure we see advertised today and on masculinity and femininity in the faces and bodies of both men and women are among them. Look them up as they are worth the read.
Some other points:
- You are not appreciating the influence that the media can have on people enough. You say there is a "limit". You use an overweight person as some sort of proof of this. However, many women and models that are advertised in the mainstream of our current society are mostly underweight. This is unhealthy and yet this has been accepted in the mainstream as attractive and desirable for one main reason. The media. Many people do not know what a healthy weight is on a girl thanks to the images promoted on TV, movies and in print. Since this has been going on for decades several generations have been programed into thinking a certain way because of the enormous influence that the fashion industry has on other areas and fields in the entertainment industry.
- You completely missed my point of Hip Hop magazines/videos. I mentioned this because of the physical femininity that the models in that field have. These models have figures and faces that are very feminine. This was to prove how in a field were heterosexuals dominate, women who are noticeably more feminine will be used in such media against the mainstream media of the current world. Again, please look up the articles on physical masculinity and femininity on this site to understand what I am talking about.
- You also misunderstood it when I mentioned porn. I'll make myself clearer. The companies that sell "normal" straight sex titles that are aiming to be more mainstream (i.e. Vivid) feature women that are closer to what is seen in mainstream media than those companies that do not aim to be more mainstream which feature girls that are more feminine.
- Your comments of the "black beauty standard" are grossly stereotyped. The women appreciated in media aimed at a Hip Hop audience and/or a specific black audience are much more diverse than you allow.
- In regards to 60s women, one again you missed my point because you are not understanding the issue of physical masculinity and femininity. The women in that era were noticeably more feminine and were in much healthier weight. Curves were also celebrated. This is in stark contrast to the world now and this change was entirely due to the fashion industries hold right after this era which went to alter it in all of mainstream media.
Paul.
You misunderstand me. By slender I do not mean bone skinny, I mean reasonably slim. I did say that mainstream models do over-do it just like us tend to want Anold Schwarzenegger type muscles but most women find them repulsive. I did say Ginger's body is perfect and it is by the way, slender. Ginger's body is below average in terms of size. The fashion and advertisement industries say '... slim sells' and that's true but they overdo it. Still these women's bodies do sell but bodies like Ginger's would too. You also talk about the media's influence, there is some truth in that but there is a limit. If you use someone overweight, trust me, you can never hope to convince the public that they are attractive, you just can't. So to summarize, men on average would prefer bodies like Ginger's but they still find these models attractive.
About the homosexual thing: I'm sorry, I'm still not convinced and stating it repeatedly does not constitute an argument, it's an empty claim. Has there been a statistical analysis on the matter? Has it been demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that this is the case? If not I suggest you guys drop this homosexual nonsense, otherwise you are making yourselves look irrational. If however, you have this information, please display it on the website.
Hip-hop magazines are mainly run by blacks who, I'm sorry to say, would NOT find Ginger's body attractive in the slightest degree. They have a different standard of beauty that has it's roots in Africa. Trust me, Ginger is a 2 by African standards!
About the 60's women: Sure the standard here has changed but still those women were nevertheless unattractive by the Black beauty standard(their butts were too flat, their hips too narrow and yes, they were too skinny!!!). Also, the feature these women in the 60's magazine all had in common was slenderness(like Ginger, bigger than her was bad), even the black ones conformed.
Porn shows all sizes and kinds of women, even skinny ones like models(think flexible ones- a big hit!). I do agree that some of these models have some masculine traits, but they are only slight, I mean they look like women! Any man who looks like them would look silly!
I think it's just a little ridiculous to argue over this.
Everyone has different tastes.
so estadiol can help you become more beautiful?
Very nice concept analysis and objectives. Keep it up
Beznik Horvath,
Good post. Although I would take the old cliche of, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" as not just having some truth, but being completely true.
First of all the vast majority of Asians don't want to get plastic surgery. This phenomenon is clearly due to the prevelance of American consumerism and the fact that for at least a little while longer whites are dominant in the world. Fifty years from now I doubt any Asian women will be getting those surgeries. I honestly think this site is complete crap. I happen to fins women with rounder heads quite beautiful. African women can be very beautiful especially Ethiopian women. They actually share a similiar bone structure to the Scandinavian women you so highly praised. I love the way traditional Muslim women dress eith their head scarf and the dress. A veil over the face seems too much but I haven't seen a woman with one of those in the US. I wish American women would dress more modestly and wear dresses more often I miss dresses. The women I find the most attractive are usually Latina or Native American, especially more curvy women. I think people who are naturally skinny can be attractive I am just stating what personally excites me. I am romani and there are also a lot of romani women that are very beautiful and it seems most people would agree with me. As far as "White" women go Serbian women are often very beautiful. Unfortunately serbian women are often exploited for their good looks and poverty but the whole world knows Serbs are beautiful people. Sure there are plenty of beautiful Scandinavian women but as a group they are not the most attractive to me. I had a discussion about this once. Blondes have become the fantasy of less men. Blondes are not as big of a deal anymore in America. But if only 25% of men were into blondes only three percent of women are true blondes so blondes remain very attractive, and so will the nordic beauties you are all so crazy about. But at least not everyone is after the same women. This site seems like it is run by a bunch of Neo Nazis but ask yourself do you want your site to suceed in its goal of promotig white as the best. What if you convince me your right and I decide Mexican women are ugly and go after those Nordic girls and I take one you could have gotten. What if all the men in the world were only interested in white women. Obviously there are a lot of people that think white women are the most beautiful but almost no ones gonna try to make the cast that white men are the best looking or most attractive in the world. I think it is natural that maybe about a third of the young women in the world are beautiful a third somewhat pretty and another third just aren't. If only a tiny percentage of women in the world were beautiful then humanity would be screwed up. There is some truth to the whole beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to get more excited talking to the cleaning ladies at the hotel than watching Heidi Klum at the latest fashion show with a lineup of women that look like they just got let out of a concentration camp
Lots of high fashion models have bodies like this. Anya Kazakova, a current runway favourite, practically books all of the shows, yet I wouldn't describe her physique as resembling an adolescent boy.
http://i37.tinypic.com/xemzut.jpg
The reason she books the shows over Stephanie Naumoska: long and slim legs, a good walk and a more striking/beautiful face than Stephani.
I could show you more examples.
Elle,
I want to take the moment to applaud what you are doing here. When I found this site I was actually quite relieved at first to find a website that was addressing the many concerns I have with the mainstream media's promotion of women. Every thing from being underweight to feminine physical attributes like wide hips being scorned and considered unattractive and undesirable were things that made no sense to me. Especially the fanatical reactions from many who worship stars and models and even those girls and women who feel bad about themselves because they are not what the media and what others who parrot the media's propaganda say.
Sadly, the more and more I read this website the more and more I became discontented with it. First, it seems to me that the owner of this site is homophobic. While I do agree with him totally that what we see promoted in the mainstream in regards to women is due to the homosexual dominance from the fashion industry, he seems to be coming from a place of dislike of them. In the article about Carrie Prejean, the way he talks about homosexuals and his wording is with a very negative gross grouping (i.e. "Homosexuals and their allies") that is in stark contrast to the highly clinical he comes across in other articles.
Second, this website is tinged with racism. Notice, that the website is called "Feminine Beauty" with the tagline of "The type of beauty that befits a woman". And yet, there are only Caucasian women featured and discussed. Then shouldn't the website logically be called, "Caucasian Feminine Beauty"? By the logic of this name and the tagline, one would easily infer that the message is that the ideal feminine beauty is one of Caucasians' only.
He does give reasons for not including non-whites in one of his sections but they hardly convince. For one, while it is true that the fashion industry is mostly marketed to whites, that does not mean that all other races are left unscathed. There are many women of color that are feeling the negative effects of this. Especially when the feminine attributes that are deemed undesirable like wide hips or prominent backsides are "given" to those of color by the mainstream media with the message that these are defective people of some kind.
Also, in some other pages he words his articles as if other races naturally want to be white or prefer it because of plastic surgeries and other procedures that some undergo. However, he actually rejects the obvious truth that monopoly image of whites in the media around the world has everything to do with that.
And finally, his continual defense of the poster here "Emily". Emily has made it more than abundantly clear that she is a white supremacist and yet without even her asking for it, Erik has defended her time and time again in the many reply sections of the articles on this website. I have seen him ask that other posters stop posting here because they were causing trouble and were nuisances but has never done so against Emily despite her posts full of hate and vitriol. In fact, he has even defended some of her racist rants. One time, Emily compared a race to animals which a poster, naturally, took offense to and called her out on it. Erik, again without being asked, defended Emily's comment by actually suggesting there is nothing wrong with the comparison.
It is a real tragedy that this website is pretty much the only one of its kind (that I am aware of). The tragedy is because of the many truths in it but sadly the person behind it is a racist and a homophobe. I really hope that another one can emerge that dissects this issue with no prejudices attached.
So Elle, it is a breath of fresh air to see someone like yourself posting against that kind of junk here. Much of what you say are things that not only are not in Erik's articles (like the influence of the media having to do with preferences of "white" features) but also not in many other poster's replies here on this website. I hope you'll get to read this post of mine here and reply back.
P.S.
If anyone, including Erik, can prove 100% he is not a racist or homophobic then please do.
Tim89,
What is "slender"? If by that you mean what is being advertised in the media then no. Most heterosexual men do not find this attractive.
You seem to confuse this being a natural desire of men with how the media influences people's thoughts and how they think. Many people on this board, including the owner of this site it seems, appear to not realize this.
The conclusion that what we see in the media of what is advertised as attractive women comes from a homosexual male influence is not ridiculous in the slightest when you are able to understand what is masculinity and femininity in the physical sense. When this is understood you quickly start to realize how physical femininity is shunned and even considered embarrassing attributes to possess (i.e. wide hips) in the mainstream. Then you compare the era of the mid 60s and back and see a very different kind of women that was admired. One more feminine. It is clear that the fashion industry changed this.
Further proof can be seen in media that does not have a homosexual male influence present. Things like Hip Hop magazines/videos and many pornography companies (although not surprisingly, with the exception of the more "mainstream" ones like Playboy or Vivid) feature very highly feminine women.
Godis,
if you had a body like Ginger's, it's a shame to hear that you don't anymore. Her's is a very lovely body.
By the way, was it you that suggested in another post from another article that the actress Christina Hendricks should lose 20 something pounds to be more feminine?
That was an extremely misguided comment.
"The majority of people have both feminine features in their face and body overall.
It is better this way too because imagine being a woman with double d size breasts and sloping shoulders etc trying to play tennis.
Having both feminine and masculine features is more conducive to this society today.
Extreme femininity might have been ok for the society in the 1950's but today it would not be beneficial in a world where women today play sports or have occupations outside the 1950's type roles of mother,secretary,nurse or cook."
Mary, while I know your post means well it is very erroneous. Actually, what you suggest here is that masculinity is better regardless of sex.
However not every women, like every man, wants to play sports. To say that women are better not having entirely feminine bodies because of only some women playing sports is misguided.
In fact, look at women who do play sports. It is not surprising that more often than not these women are highly masculine physically. That easily leads to the conclusion that it is a relative thing and not something that should be reflected on all humans.
Also, there are so many physical activities that a person can do that can be better suited for an individual. For example, yoga is a very good option for exercise for women who have large breasts but don't want to do something like running.
The majority of people have both feminine features in their face and body overall.
It is better this way too because imagine being a woman with double d size breasts and sloping shoulders etc trying to play tennis.
Having both feminine and masculine features is more conducive to this society today.
Extreme femininity might have been ok for the society in the 1950's but today it would not be beneficial in a world where women today play sports or have occupations outside the 1950's type roles of mother,secretary,nurse or cook.
The model posted doesn't have a masculine face.Her face is not masculinised-its far from masculine.It would fall on a scale somewhere between feminine-masculine and leaning very much more towards feminine.
She has very masculine and wide shoulders,smallish breasts and (assuming that one photo is accurate) a flat bottom.
She also has feminine features like her face,lips,hips and face profile.
Eriks Attractive women section isnt about having the most gorgeous woman there but about which women he finds attractive.He finds women with extreme femininity attractive and the photos are meant to suggest and represent that.I think his point is that feminine women are attractive and that he finds them more attractive then masculinised women and the section is meant to serve as a contrast to the masculine women in the fashion industry so i think he chose photos of women that are feminine in general and not photos of the most beautiful woman in the world or best lips or professional makeup or height requirement etc.His site is about femininity vs masculinity not about who is the most gorgeous.
Still,he should use photos that are not pornography.Theres alot of stock images or art model photos he could have used instead.
Visitor,
You shouldnt be trusting Eriks judgement regardless of whether he is in 20's,30's,40's,80's or whatever.
"Now Erik's excuse is that every woman on the planet, no matter how feminine, will display at least one or two slightly masculine or pseudo masculine etc. trait."
I don't know where he says said that. I think that's basically the same thing as saying "nobody is perfect". Which is true. When it comes to the face, its very, very hard to find a woman who's perfectly feminine on every single account. Very hard.
Yes, I agree with this post 100%. That high fashion model looks ridiculous. Feel bad for her:( Terribly bad.
One thing though. How come when I had a body like Ginger's I was considered "fat" by certain people here? Cough cough cough
Oh well, now I'm fit and curvy too so I guess I get the best of both worlds
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