but no way they have noses as straight as scandinavians or the tips fixed on 90º on the same average as northern europeans or the whole Western Europe
I never implied they did have noses that straight. I just implied that not all Romanians have hooked or bumpy noses. Besides, I didn't define straight like you did. To me a straight nose is one without a hook or a bump on it. I didn't get into a technical definition as I didn't even know there was one.
Besides, accoring to Emily's photos, Scandinavians have more upturned noses it seems than actual straight noses...
And no.. If you are implying that most Romanians have a "droopy" nose, I don't see this as the case either. Perhaps there is a high percentage with a "droopy" nose, however, I haven't personally paid attention to that when I went there. As for my family we do not have "droopy" noses...
Even though It seems obvious to me they have more of the hooked nose. As long as you go deep in southern and east the tip of the nose goes downward.
I'm a brazilian of portuguese and spaniard origin (also a a portion of amerindian and black). I know portuguese people and I admit they have more of the hooked nose than northern europeans. Even though most have it straight. I know how to split sterotypes from reality.
I believe on you when you say most romanians don't have hooked noses, but no way they have noses as straight as scandinavians or the tips fixed on 90º on the same average as northern europeans or the whole Western Europe.
Look, everything is relative. THE most masculine woman of all - the Aboriginal woman - should be the most intelligent one, if we only look for masculinity. Obviously, he is comparing women within their OWN SPECIFIC GROUP, or ethnic/racial type. An idiot understands this
Ok, Emily. But I am refferring to Europeans which IS within the same group: Europeans. Besides, lets scope it down to specifically Northern Europeans. I have seen Northern European women that are extremely feminine that can be more intelligent than a masculine Northern European women. From my experience actually the more feminine one is the more intelligent. I'm not just saying this because I am feminine either...
Now, I haven't read the whole article. I just read a few lines. I mentioned this. Don't criticize me just yet, because it is obvious I haven't read the whole article. When I have more than 5 minutes at once to read the article (I only come on here during small breaks), I will write a more accurate comment.
Yes, masculine women seem to dominate the whole high IQ area, but I don't think it's safe to come to that conclusion just yet... and I'm not "favoring" feminine women, just stating my personal experience...
Eastern countries are loaded with J and E y-chomosome (north africans and middle easterners). Well, it say a lot.
As long as you say the scandinavian nose is more piggish It implies It's less hooked than the romanian average. The average for scandinavians is surely the tip of the nose on 90° or upper. Being 90° the commoner.
And you're mistaking a bump in the nose bone for a hooked nose. Not the same.
Eastern europeans can't have it less hooked than scandinavians. It's not possible.
What's next? A greek affirming they have it less hooked as well?
Whatever I agree eastern europeans (from Balkans not russians alike) have longer noses on average.
"Yes, I too have noticed that more masculine women SEEM to be more intelligent. However, you cannot assume that based only on your observations. I am a very feminine woman, and according to testing(however accurate standardized tests "
You SAY you are a very feminine woman, implying also that you are highly attractive. In my experience, those who are truly attractive don't repeat that ad nauseum, over and over, like you do.
"You have to realize that your views paint a biased picture of yourself. I agree with many points presented by this "
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Your views are biased, and lacking the evidence, there is the difference. As long as he can prove his theories he is not biased.
"You have a variety of informative and accurate arguments about femininity and attractiveness. However, people will ignore that because this is what they see:"
No, they won't. People will if they are not prepared to see the truth, however...
"B)You claim that Northern European women are more feminine on average and have more attractive qualities(rhinoplasty section). You probably do have adequate evidence to support this, but people don't care. All they see is a "racist" or "bigot". Perhaps if you had a page with good scholarly articles and all the evidence suggesting this it would shut some people up."
That's a ridiculous statement. They most certainly DO care. They care so much that some are going insane over it, cough, cough.
Genuine, mature people don't see racism where there is none, they see the evidence and where it leads them. Truth is not ever racism.
You have showed your hostility towards Nordic women here and this suggestion is very transparent. Of course you would prefer that he claimed that women of YOUR ethnic background are the most feminine and attractive. That is the only motive for your critisism. God, that is transparent. Had he praised Romanians we wouldn't have heard a sound from you on this.
"C)On a page I noticed you mentioned that you would vote for Sarah Palin. This suggests a very right-winged attitude and reinforces stereotypes associated with conservatives such as: white, fundamentalist Christian, racist/bigots, closed-minded, war mongers, etc. ( I was raised conservative, but now I lean more towards intermediate as I don't like politics and do not associate myself with either side. I am not fond of either side.)"
I agree that it is unnecessary to state political views here. It is totally off-topic, I think, and could make some people hostile and unwilling to consider the valid parts of this site.
"D)Now take all three factors into consideration and this is what you look like to people:
"You look like a white Nordic male who is conservative when it comes to politics. You have a bigot attitude and you use pseudo-science to support your bigot views. You like weak women and are intimidated by any woman showing any sign of:
a)intelligence
b)aggressiveness
c)strength"
Maybe he isn't intimidated. It is possible to dislike something without being a "bigot" or intimidated. Many men dislike the overly-aggressive, androgynous, vulgar and promiscuous "modern" woman. Most men appreciate a feminine, sweet, romantic and beautiful woman who is ALSO intelligent and an equal partner - without trying to totally wipe out traditional gender roles.
When you overdo things it usually has the opposite effect, you know.. Trying desperately to appear mature wil make you seem immature, for example.
"You hate homosexuals and will do anything in your power to portray them as sick individuals."
They have too much power when it comes to certain issues, such as creating false beauty ideals for women. That critisism is valid.
"This is my experience with mose Northern European women:
They are very intelligent.
So...
The fact that you claim that Northern European women are more feminine on average... but then you turn around that mascunilized women are more intelligent on average...
It just looks wrong. We don't know enough about intelligence to honestly come to that conclusion. Neither do we have enough information to prove that Northern European women are on average more feminine. Although from my honest observation they are."
Look, everything is relative. THE most masculine woman of all - the Aboriginal woman - should be the most intelligent one, if we only look for masculinity. Obviously, he is comparing women within their OWN SPECIFIC GROUP, or ethnic/racial type. An idiot understands this.
Yah, the problem is you don't make much of a point...'
I am also wondering "Brazilian" where your credentials are? I mean how do you know what Romanians look like? I know very few people who ACTUALLY have a good idea of what Romanian's look like, as many people are ignorant to the fact the country even exists...
Emily claims she is Scandinavian and from Sweden, so that is her credential.
I claim I am Romanian and from Romania (live in the U.S. now), and that I have traveled throughout Europe, that is my credential...
What is yours? You know so much about how dark Turks are, how tall Mongols are (coincidentally enough I work with an Asian girl who is 6'1 but can't model. Not the norm, but interesting indeed), how refined African noses are (even though African Americans have the widest range of nose variation), and you know sooo much about how Romanian noses look right?
However, supposedly you are Brazilian? Or am I assuming too much?
Yah, the problem is you don't make much of a point...'
I am also wondering "Brazilian" where your credentials are? I mean how do you know what Romanians look like? I know very few people who ACTUALLY have a good idea of what Romanian's look like, as many people are ignorant to the fact the country even exists...
Emily claims she is Scandinavian and from Sweden, so that is her credential.
I claim I am Romanian and from Romania (live in the U.S. now), and that I have traveled throughout Europe, that is my credential...
What is yours? You know so much about how dark Turks are, how tall Mongols are (coincidentally enough I work with an Asian girl who is 6'1 but can't model. Not the norm, but interesting indeed), how refined African noses are (even though African Americans have the widest range of nose variation), and you know sooo much about how Romanian noses look right?
However, supposedly you are Brazilian? Or am I assuming too much?
I'm not going to say that because I see no evidence to support the claim that one or the other has more hooked noses. I have been to both Romania and Germany extensivley enough to have a good idea of what both look like. I have not personally seen more frequent hooked noses in Romania. This of course is only my personal experience.
The noses seem softer. No, actually the noses seem more robust. Romanians have a more acquiline nose, while the Scands have a more "piggish" upturned more robust nose, even if small. One thing I can admit: many times Romanians have longer noses. However, although longer they are rarely more robust than Scand noses. Also, once you go into Germany(from my personal experience) you will see the noses become more acquiline and long, rather than small,piggish,upturned, and robust.
This Romanian hooked nose:
Is less robust than a Scandinavian nose from Emily's own examples:
Your affirmations still deliver the impression that romanians are less hooked nose than northern europeans or at least even.
I DON'T CARE WHETHER THE HOOKED NOSE ISN'T THE RULE IN ROMANIA OR IT CAN BE FOUND IN NORTHERN EUROPE I just want you to admit that hooked nose is commoner in Romania than It is in Scandinavia. Go ahead if you dare or are you supposed to say otherwise?
By the way your examples of hooked nose northern europeans don't have it hooked at all. They look far softer than the eastern europeans examples Emily has put up.
I am still under the suspicion that Brazilian is really Emily for various reasons...
What a coincidence?
Emily posted her comment only 4minutes after Brazilian did? Just strange thats all...
I mean I know it happens, but it seems sooo unlikely that two people with similair/exactly the same argument would be on at the exact same time posting the exact same bullcra... I mean nonsense.
"While you atest that hooked nose is odd in Romania, you imply that MANY MANY nordic people have hooked nose. As if many nordics have it hooked and only a few romanians (the exception) have got it"
The only thing I was implying about Northern European noses is that bumpy/hooked noses exist among Northern Europeans in higher frequency than Emily would be willing to admit.
I did not imply anything you are saying I implied. I did claim that many Northern Europeans do have hooked/bumpy noses. However, I did not claim hooked noses were the "Norm" in Northern Europe as Emily claims they are the "Norm" in Eastern Europe or every Eastern European has a hooked nose. I also claimed that the "norm" in Romania and most of Eastern Europe is NOT a hooked nose. Never did I say that few or no Eastern Europeans have hooked noses... Here is my statement exactly:
The "norm" in Romania is not to have a hooked nose either. And again, many many Nordic women have this nose. It wasn't even hard for me to find photos.
All I am trying to say is that:
a) their are less hooked noses in Romania and all of Eastern Europe then Emily claims there. She basically claims all Eastern Europeans have hooked noses.
b) I am trying to also show Emily that MORE Northern Europeans have hooked noses than she would like to think or admit.
c) I have no problem accepting anything. I accept the truth. I have stated before that my loyalty lies with the truth. I have posted examples of attractive women with hooked noses, so I don't understand this comment Emily:
"Embrace your noses. There can be a regal beauty to a hooked nose, it can add character to a face, as long as it is not too large or dominant, so what's so terrible about admitting to what is actually the reality? You people have a real problem with the truth."
I do accept the truth. However, I accept the WHOLE truth. I do not TRY to morph the truth into something it is not, unlike you. Sometimes I make mistakes, however my intentions are only to find the truth...
Embrace YOUR noses.
What do you mean by YOUR noses? Again, you go implying that you have an idea of what I or most of Eastern Europe looks like. I would embrace my nose if it was bumpy or hooked. However, its just not. It's not your perfect nose, and I embrace it anyways.
Godis, you are desperate. EVERYONE knows that there are more people, on average, who have hooked and large noses in Eastern- and Southern Europe than there are in Scandinavia. It's not exactly a big secret.
Posting a few pictures of Romanians with straight noses won't change that fact. And no, Ekaterina, she has not proven anything, except her desperation. As for you, you implied before that you have a straight nose.
Whatever that is, it is not a straight nose. From your modeling profile;
I don't know about the US, but here everyone knows that a large and hooked nose is much more common in Southern- and Eastern parts of Europe than in Scandinavia, so I guess it's ignorance on your parts. The Nordic nose is straighter, on average.
Embrace your noses. There can be a regal beauty to a hooked nose, it can add character to a face, as long as it is not too large or dominant, so what's so terrible about admitting to what is actually the reality? You people have a real problem with the truth.
While you atest that hooked nose is odd in Romania, you imply that MANY MANY nordic people have hooked nose. As if many nordics have it hooked and only a few romanians (the exception) have got it.
Although hooked nose can be found in Northern Europe I suppose It's commoner in Eastern Europe and so Romania
It's seems like you're the one having problems accepting such kind of nose. Even though I'm not affirming that most of romanians have got hooked noses.
My observations have been that the smartest women tend to be slim and somewhat masculinized
Then go to say:
Awards in recent years are important because earlier breakthroughs required lower intelligence than what is currently state of the art.
So you are saying that the only reason women won any awards is because "back then" high intelligence really wasn't that necessary for someone to win a nobel prize?
btw: Sorry if I did misunderstand the article. I did skim through it as I don't have that much time right now...
but please correct me if I am wrong, because I really hope I am wrong..
Might I add that this whole outlook, that more masculine women are more intelligent, more feminine women are more attractive, holds a large problem:
Should a man mate with a masculine women with the expectation that his daughter will be genetically more intelligent? Or should he mate with a more feminine women with the expectation that his daughter will be more feminine and attractive?
Don't we all want to have attractive and intelligent children?
If it were up to me I would opt for intelligence as I find it more useful in the long-run. You claim yourself that women are attractive from the range of ages 18-25. So my guess is that true attractiveness is very limited. However, an intelligent women will stay intelligent (especially if she keeps her mind sharp) long past the age of 25, through her middle age, and up until her elderly age where her intelligence and sharp mind may start to deteriorate.
Another issue:
Should a man mate with a feminine woman, one that he is attracted to, with the risk that his son will undoubtly be feminine? Or should he mate with a less attractive masculine woman with the assurance that his son will utlimatley be masculine?
Yes, I too have noticed that more masculine women SEEM to be more intelligent. However, you cannot assume that based only on your observations. I am a very feminine woman, and according to testing(however accurate standardized tests really are), I have above average intelligence. Is it extremely above average? No. It's closer to average than it is to "gifted" or genius. However, I know many feminine women that are extremely intelligent. You can call them "gifted".
You have to realize that your views paint a biased picture of yourself. I agree with many points presented by this website. You have a variety of informative and accurate arguments about femininity and attractiveness. However, people will ignore that because this is what they see:
A)References to the bible suggesting a strong "Christian" if not "fundamentalist Christian" outlook. (Hey I am a Christian as well, but I do not put bible references on any of my work. Nor do I tell people that their comments suggest lying, "and that is a sin".
B)You claim that Northern European women are more feminine on average and have more attractive qualities(rhinoplasty section). You probably do have adequate evidence to support this, but people don't care. All they see is a "racist" or "bigot". Perhaps if you had a page with good scholarly articles and all the evidence suggesting this it would shut some people up.
C)On a page I noticed you mentioned that you would vote for Sarah Palin. This suggests a very right-winged attitude and reinforces stereotypes associated with conservatives such as: white, fundamentalist Christian, racist/bigots, closed-minded, war mongers, etc. ( I was raised conservative, but now I lean more towards intermediate as I don't like politics and do not associate myself with either side. I am not fond of either side.)
D)Now take all three factors into consideration and this is what you look like to people:
You look like a white Nordic male who is conservative when it comes to politics. You have a bigot attitude and you use pseudo-science to support your bigot views. You like weak women and are intimidated by any woman showing any sign of:
a)intelligence
b)aggressiveness
c)strength
You hate homosexuals and will do anything in your power to portray them as sick individuals.
You wrote this yourself:
My observations have been that the smartest women tend to be slim and somewhat masculinized.
Now what does this say? You say that Nordic women are MORE feminine. Hmm... Now let me put A and B together. Are you saying that Nordic women are on average less intelligent than more masculinized women of other races? I find it quite the contrary.
Now this goes against me but it is the truth so I will state it:
It seems that besides Asian women, Northern European women have the highest IQs. Now I don't believe IQ tests to be accurate, but they are the only measure of intelligence we have. Lets focus strictly on Europeans however. Eastern European women whom you claim to be "less feminine" on average than Northern European women DO NOT have IQs as high as Northern European women. I am looking at the countries here. The Nordic countries have higher IQs than the Eastern European or Southern European countries. I am sure that in Eastern European countries (because I am more familiar with them) nutrition and lifestyle play a large part in the fact that they have lower IQ scores. However, I doubt that the more mascunilized Eastern European women would be more intelligent than Northern European women even with proper nutrition,education, and a more education oriented lifestyle. They would probably be equally intelligent at best.
Just look at Emily:
Although her arguments are weak (quotes Emily, "You are just jealous or not white!") look at her syntax, her writing style, her structure. English is her second language. Look at her vocabulary. She obviously has above average intelligence (which she could probably put to good use if she wasn't so smothered in her extreme,ignorant, and inaccurate ideas and views).
This is my experience with mose Northern European women:
They are very intelligent.
So...
The fact that you claim that Northern European women are more feminine on average... but then you turn around that mascunilized women are more intelligent on average...
It just looks wrong. We don't know enough about intelligence to honestly come to that conclusion. Neither do we have enough information to prove that Northern European women are on average more feminine. Although from my honest observation they are.
I think I understand why Erik's views come across as so off-base to people who find Victoria's Secret models highly attractive. The facial and body features that Erik labels "masculine" are what most people would call "androgynous". When he complains that high-fashion models often resemble (lean) adolescent boys, he has simply noticed that they share many androgynous features in common. Males and females come in a wide variety of body types, and there is a broad range of overlapping features both sexes share.
Erik appears to assume that masculine and feminine attributes develop in opposition, and that any degree of masculinity in a female detracts from her feminine qualities. This leads him to react negatively to models who exhibit elegantly androgynous features in an unmistakably feminine context. Highly defined cheekbones and a sharp, delicate jawline do not make a petite, feminine face look masculine, they give the woman who possesses them strikingly androgynous looks which most people find more attractive than a typically bland female face.
In short, Erik is a "heterosexual-exclusive" man who finds anything other than completely feminine women to be unattractive. He thinks that any woman with androgynous features looks transsexual, and that any man who'd finds her attractive is potentially "gay".
but no way they have noses as straight as scandinavians or the tips fixed on 90º on the same average as northern europeans or the whole Western Europe
I never implied they did have noses that straight. I just implied that not all Romanians have hooked or bumpy noses. Besides, I didn't define straight like you did. To me a straight nose is one without a hook or a bump on it. I didn't get into a technical definition as I didn't even know there was one.
Besides, accoring to Emily's photos, Scandinavians have more upturned noses it seems than actual straight noses...
And no.. If you are implying that most Romanians have a "droopy" nose, I don't see this as the case either. Perhaps there is a high percentage with a "droopy" nose, however, I haven't personally paid attention to that when I went there. As for my family we do not have "droopy" noses...
I have never been to Romania.
Even though It seems obvious to me they have more of the hooked nose. As long as you go deep in southern and east the tip of the nose goes downward.
I'm a brazilian of portuguese and spaniard origin (also a a portion of amerindian and black). I know portuguese people and I admit they have more of the hooked nose than northern europeans. Even though most have it straight. I know how to split sterotypes from reality.
I believe on you when you say most romanians don't have hooked noses, but no way they have noses as straight as scandinavians or the tips fixed on 90º on the same average as northern europeans or the whole Western Europe.
Look, everything is relative. THE most masculine woman of all - the Aboriginal woman - should be the most intelligent one, if we only look for masculinity. Obviously, he is comparing women within their OWN SPECIFIC GROUP, or ethnic/racial type. An idiot understands this
Ok, Emily. But I am refferring to Europeans which IS within the same group: Europeans. Besides, lets scope it down to specifically Northern Europeans. I have seen Northern European women that are extremely feminine that can be more intelligent than a masculine Northern European women. From my experience actually the more feminine one is the more intelligent. I'm not just saying this because I am feminine either...
Now, I haven't read the whole article. I just read a few lines. I mentioned this. Don't criticize me just yet, because it is obvious I haven't read the whole article. When I have more than 5 minutes at once to read the article (I only come on here during small breaks), I will write a more accurate comment.
Yes, masculine women seem to dominate the whole high IQ area, but I don't think it's safe to come to that conclusion just yet... and I'm not "favoring" feminine women, just stating my personal experience...
Eastern countries are loaded with J and E y-chomosome (north africans and middle easterners). Well, it say a lot.
As long as you say the scandinavian nose is more piggish It implies It's less hooked than the romanian average. The average for scandinavians is surely the tip of the nose on 90° or upper. Being 90° the commoner.
And you're mistaking a bump in the nose bone for a hooked nose. Not the same.
Eastern europeans can't have it less hooked than scandinavians. It's not possible.
What's next? A greek affirming they have it less hooked as well?
Whatever I agree eastern europeans (from Balkans not russians alike) have longer noses on average.
"Yes, I too have noticed that more masculine women SEEM to be more intelligent. However, you cannot assume that based only on your observations. I am a very feminine woman, and according to testing(however accurate standardized tests "
You SAY you are a very feminine woman, implying also that you are highly attractive. In my experience, those who are truly attractive don't repeat that ad nauseum, over and over, like you do.
"You have to realize that your views paint a biased picture of yourself. I agree with many points presented by this "
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Your views are biased, and lacking the evidence, there is the difference. As long as he can prove his theories he is not biased.
"You have a variety of informative and accurate arguments about femininity and attractiveness. However, people will ignore that because this is what they see:"
No, they won't. People will if they are not prepared to see the truth, however...
"B)You claim that Northern European women are more feminine on average and have more attractive qualities(rhinoplasty section). You probably do have adequate evidence to support this, but people don't care. All they see is a "racist" or "bigot". Perhaps if you had a page with good scholarly articles and all the evidence suggesting this it would shut some people up."
That's a ridiculous statement. They most certainly DO care. They care so much that some are going insane over it, cough, cough.
Genuine, mature people don't see racism where there is none, they see the evidence and where it leads them. Truth is not ever racism.
You have showed your hostility towards Nordic women here and this suggestion is very transparent. Of course you would prefer that he claimed that women of YOUR ethnic background are the most feminine and attractive. That is the only motive for your critisism. God, that is transparent. Had he praised Romanians we wouldn't have heard a sound from you on this.
"C)On a page I noticed you mentioned that you would vote for Sarah Palin. This suggests a very right-winged attitude and reinforces stereotypes associated with conservatives such as: white, fundamentalist Christian, racist/bigots, closed-minded, war mongers, etc. ( I was raised conservative, but now I lean more towards intermediate as I don't like politics and do not associate myself with either side. I am not fond of either side.)"
I agree that it is unnecessary to state political views here. It is totally off-topic, I think, and could make some people hostile and unwilling to consider the valid parts of this site.
"D)Now take all three factors into consideration and this is what you look like to people:
"You look like a white Nordic male who is conservative when it comes to politics. You have a bigot attitude and you use pseudo-science to support your bigot views. You like weak women and are intimidated by any woman showing any sign of:
a)intelligence
b)aggressiveness
c)strength"
Maybe he isn't intimidated. It is possible to dislike something without being a "bigot" or intimidated. Many men dislike the overly-aggressive, androgynous, vulgar and promiscuous "modern" woman. Most men appreciate a feminine, sweet, romantic and beautiful woman who is ALSO intelligent and an equal partner - without trying to totally wipe out traditional gender roles.
When you overdo things it usually has the opposite effect, you know.. Trying desperately to appear mature wil make you seem immature, for example.
"You hate homosexuals and will do anything in your power to portray them as sick individuals."
They have too much power when it comes to certain issues, such as creating false beauty ideals for women. That critisism is valid.
"This is my experience with mose Northern European women:
They are very intelligent.
So...
The fact that you claim that Northern European women are more feminine on average... but then you turn around that mascunilized women are more intelligent on average...
It just looks wrong. We don't know enough about intelligence to honestly come to that conclusion. Neither do we have enough information to prove that Northern European women are on average more feminine. Although from my honest observation they are."
Look, everything is relative. THE most masculine woman of all - the Aboriginal woman - should be the most intelligent one, if we only look for masculinity. Obviously, he is comparing women within their OWN SPECIFIC GROUP, or ethnic/racial type. An idiot understands this.
I'm suspecting you are myself.
Yah, the problem is you don't make much of a point...'
I am also wondering "Brazilian" where your credentials are? I mean how do you know what Romanians look like? I know very few people who ACTUALLY have a good idea of what Romanian's look like, as many people are ignorant to the fact the country even exists...
Emily claims she is Scandinavian and from Sweden, so that is her credential.
I claim I am Romanian and from Romania (live in the U.S. now), and that I have traveled throughout Europe, that is my credential...
What is yours? You know so much about how dark Turks are, how tall Mongols are (coincidentally enough I work with an Asian girl who is 6'1 but can't model. Not the norm, but interesting indeed), how refined African noses are (even though African Americans have the widest range of nose variation), and you know sooo much about how Romanian noses look right?
However, supposedly you are Brazilian? Or am I assuming too much?
I'm suspecting you are myself.
Yah, the problem is you don't make much of a point...'
I am also wondering "Brazilian" where your credentials are? I mean how do you know what Romanians look like? I know very few people who ACTUALLY have a good idea of what Romanian's look like, as many people are ignorant to the fact the country even exists...
Emily claims she is Scandinavian and from Sweden, so that is her credential.
I claim I am Romanian and from Romania (live in the U.S. now), and that I have traveled throughout Europe, that is my credential...
What is yours? You know so much about how dark Turks are, how tall Mongols are (coincidentally enough I work with an Asian girl who is 6'1 but can't model. Not the norm, but interesting indeed), how refined African noses are (even though African Americans have the widest range of nose variation), and you know sooo much about how Romanian noses look right?
However, supposedly you are Brazilian? Or am I assuming too much?
Although not straight that woman doesn't have it hooked. The tip of her nose is upward or at least 90º. Very european nose.
I'm not going to say that because I see no evidence to support the claim that one or the other has more hooked noses. I have been to both Romania and Germany extensivley enough to have a good idea of what both look like. I have not personally seen more frequent hooked noses in Romania. This of course is only my personal experience.
The noses seem softer. No, actually the noses seem more robust. Romanians have a more acquiline nose, while the Scands have a more "piggish" upturned more robust nose, even if small. One thing I can admit: many times Romanians have longer noses. However, although longer they are rarely more robust than Scand noses. Also, once you go into Germany(from my personal experience) you will see the noses become more acquiline and long, rather than small,piggish,upturned, and robust.
This Romanian hooked nose:
Is less robust than a Scandinavian nose from Emily's own examples:
and I picked the best of those noses...
I'm suspecting you are myself.
What a coincidence?!
You just posted a few minutes after I've posted. Very strange.
Jokings apart you are just saying that because I'm not siding with you.
Ok Ok Ok Godis. I catch what you are implying.
Your affirmations still deliver the impression that romanians are less hooked nose than northern europeans or at least even.
I DON'T CARE WHETHER THE HOOKED NOSE ISN'T THE RULE IN ROMANIA OR IT CAN BE FOUND IN NORTHERN EUROPE I just want you to admit that hooked nose is commoner in Romania than It is in Scandinavia. Go ahead if you dare or are you supposed to say otherwise?
By the way your examples of hooked nose northern europeans don't have it hooked at all. They look far softer than the eastern europeans examples Emily has put up.
I am still under the suspicion that Brazilian is really Emily for various reasons...
What a coincidence?
Emily posted her comment only 4minutes after Brazilian did? Just strange thats all...
I mean I know it happens, but it seems sooo unlikely that two people with similair/exactly the same argument would be on at the exact same time posting the exact same bullcra... I mean nonsense.
Hey Brazilian,
I have seen Brazilian's that don't really have any good points in relevance to arguments.
Hey Brazilian,
I have seen Brazilian's that don't really have any good points in relevance to arguments.
I've seen many odd things on internet.
I've seen turks implying they are lighter skinned than southern europeans.
I've seen mongols implying they are on average taller than europeans.
I've seen japaneses saying they are whiter than europeans.
I've even seen, unbelivably, afro-americans implying that black people have got finer noses than europeans.
Now I'm seeing a romanian implying they have more of the straight nose than northern europeans.
What's next?
Specifically Brazilian:
"While you atest that hooked nose is odd in Romania, you imply that MANY MANY nordic people have hooked nose. As if many nordics have it hooked and only a few romanians (the exception) have got it"
The only thing I was implying about Northern European noses is that bumpy/hooked noses exist among Northern Europeans in higher frequency than Emily would be willing to admit.
I did not imply anything you are saying I implied. I did claim that many Northern Europeans do have hooked/bumpy noses. However, I did not claim hooked noses were the "Norm" in Northern Europe as Emily claims they are the "Norm" in Eastern Europe or every Eastern European has a hooked nose. I also claimed that the "norm" in Romania and most of Eastern Europe is NOT a hooked nose. Never did I say that few or no Eastern Europeans have hooked noses... Here is my statement exactly:
The "norm" in Romania is not to have a hooked nose either. And again, many many Nordic women have this nose. It wasn't even hard for me to find photos.
Emily and Brazilian:
All I am trying to say is that:
a) their are less hooked noses in Romania and all of Eastern Europe then Emily claims there. She basically claims all Eastern Europeans have hooked noses.
b) I am trying to also show Emily that MORE Northern Europeans have hooked noses than she would like to think or admit.
c) I have no problem accepting anything. I accept the truth. I have stated before that my loyalty lies with the truth. I have posted examples of attractive women with hooked noses, so I don't understand this comment Emily:
"Embrace your noses. There can be a regal beauty to a hooked nose, it can add character to a face, as long as it is not too large or dominant, so what's so terrible about admitting to what is actually the reality? You people have a real problem with the truth."
I do accept the truth. However, I accept the WHOLE truth. I do not TRY to morph the truth into something it is not, unlike you. Sometimes I make mistakes, however my intentions are only to find the truth...
Embrace YOUR noses.
What do you mean by YOUR noses? Again, you go implying that you have an idea of what I or most of Eastern Europe looks like. I would embrace my nose if it was bumpy or hooked. However, its just not. It's not your perfect nose, and I embrace it anyways.
Godis, you are desperate. EVERYONE knows that there are more people, on average, who have hooked and large noses in Eastern- and Southern Europe than there are in Scandinavia. It's not exactly a big secret.
Posting a few pictures of Romanians with straight noses won't change that fact. And no, Ekaterina, she has not proven anything, except her desperation. As for you, you implied before that you have a straight nose.
Whatever that is, it is not a straight nose. From your modeling profile;
I don't know about the US, but here everyone knows that a large and hooked nose is much more common in Southern- and Eastern parts of Europe than in Scandinavia, so I guess it's ignorance on your parts. The Nordic nose is straighter, on average.
Embrace your noses. There can be a regal beauty to a hooked nose, it can add character to a face, as long as it is not too large or dominant, so what's so terrible about admitting to what is actually the reality? You people have a real problem with the truth.
Godis,
Actually you're making no sense.
While you atest that hooked nose is odd in Romania, you imply that MANY MANY nordic people have hooked nose. As if many nordics have it hooked and only a few romanians (the exception) have got it.
Although hooked nose can be found in Northern Europe I suppose It's commoner in Eastern Europe and so Romania
It's seems like you're the one having problems accepting such kind of nose. Even though I'm not affirming that most of romanians have got hooked noses.
You also go as far as to claim this:
My observations have been that the smartest women tend to be slim and somewhat masculinized
Then go to say:
Awards in recent years are important because earlier breakthroughs required lower intelligence than what is currently state of the art.
So you are saying that the only reason women won any awards is because "back then" high intelligence really wasn't that necessary for someone to win a nobel prize?
btw: Sorry if I did misunderstand the article. I did skim through it as I don't have that much time right now...
but please correct me if I am wrong, because I really hope I am wrong..
Might I add that this whole outlook, that more masculine women are more intelligent, more feminine women are more attractive, holds a large problem:
Should a man mate with a masculine women with the expectation that his daughter will be genetically more intelligent? Or should he mate with a more feminine women with the expectation that his daughter will be more feminine and attractive?
Don't we all want to have attractive and intelligent children?
If it were up to me I would opt for intelligence as I find it more useful in the long-run. You claim yourself that women are attractive from the range of ages 18-25. So my guess is that true attractiveness is very limited. However, an intelligent women will stay intelligent (especially if she keeps her mind sharp) long past the age of 25, through her middle age, and up until her elderly age where her intelligence and sharp mind may start to deteriorate.
Another issue:
Should a man mate with a feminine woman, one that he is attracted to, with the risk that his son will undoubtly be feminine? Or should he mate with a less attractive masculine woman with the assurance that his son will utlimatley be masculine?
Erik,
Yes, I too have noticed that more masculine women SEEM to be more intelligent. However, you cannot assume that based only on your observations. I am a very feminine woman, and according to testing(however accurate standardized tests really are), I have above average intelligence. Is it extremely above average? No. It's closer to average than it is to "gifted" or genius. However, I know many feminine women that are extremely intelligent. You can call them "gifted".
You have to realize that your views paint a biased picture of yourself. I agree with many points presented by this website. You have a variety of informative and accurate arguments about femininity and attractiveness. However, people will ignore that because this is what they see:
A)References to the bible suggesting a strong "Christian" if not "fundamentalist Christian" outlook. (Hey I am a Christian as well, but I do not put bible references on any of my work. Nor do I tell people that their comments suggest lying, "and that is a sin".
B)You claim that Northern European women are more feminine on average and have more attractive qualities(rhinoplasty section). You probably do have adequate evidence to support this, but people don't care. All they see is a "racist" or "bigot". Perhaps if you had a page with good scholarly articles and all the evidence suggesting this it would shut some people up.
C)On a page I noticed you mentioned that you would vote for Sarah Palin. This suggests a very right-winged attitude and reinforces stereotypes associated with conservatives such as: white, fundamentalist Christian, racist/bigots, closed-minded, war mongers, etc. ( I was raised conservative, but now I lean more towards intermediate as I don't like politics and do not associate myself with either side. I am not fond of either side.)
D)Now take all three factors into consideration and this is what you look like to people:
You look like a white Nordic male who is conservative when it comes to politics. You have a bigot attitude and you use pseudo-science to support your bigot views. You like weak women and are intimidated by any woman showing any sign of:
a)intelligence
b)aggressiveness
c)strength
You hate homosexuals and will do anything in your power to portray them as sick individuals.
You wrote this yourself:
My observations have been that the smartest women tend to be slim and somewhat masculinized.
Now what does this say? You say that Nordic women are MORE feminine. Hmm... Now let me put A and B together. Are you saying that Nordic women are on average less intelligent than more masculinized women of other races? I find it quite the contrary.
Now this goes against me but it is the truth so I will state it:
It seems that besides Asian women, Northern European women have the highest IQs. Now I don't believe IQ tests to be accurate, but they are the only measure of intelligence we have. Lets focus strictly on Europeans however. Eastern European women whom you claim to be "less feminine" on average than Northern European women DO NOT have IQs as high as Northern European women. I am looking at the countries here. The Nordic countries have higher IQs than the Eastern European or Southern European countries. I am sure that in Eastern European countries (because I am more familiar with them) nutrition and lifestyle play a large part in the fact that they have lower IQ scores. However, I doubt that the more mascunilized Eastern European women would be more intelligent than Northern European women even with proper nutrition,education, and a more education oriented lifestyle. They would probably be equally intelligent at best.
Just look at Emily:
Although her arguments are weak (quotes Emily, "You are just jealous or not white!") look at her syntax, her writing style, her structure. English is her second language. Look at her vocabulary. She obviously has above average intelligence (which she could probably put to good use if she wasn't so smothered in her extreme,ignorant, and inaccurate ideas and views).
This is my experience with mose Northern European women:
They are very intelligent.
So...
The fact that you claim that Northern European women are more feminine on average... but then you turn around that mascunilized women are more intelligent on average...
It just looks wrong. We don't know enough about intelligence to honestly come to that conclusion. Neither do we have enough information to prove that Northern European women are on average more feminine. Although from my honest observation they are.
Godis,
I'm sorry, but I think you're going a little overboard. You have proven your point many times. Just leave it already.
I think I understand why Erik's views come across as so off-base to people who find Victoria's Secret models highly attractive. The facial and body features that Erik labels "masculine" are what most people would call "androgynous". When he complains that high-fashion models often resemble (lean) adolescent boys, he has simply noticed that they share many androgynous features in common. Males and females come in a wide variety of body types, and there is a broad range of overlapping features both sexes share.
Erik appears to assume that masculine and feminine attributes develop in opposition, and that any degree of masculinity in a female detracts from her feminine qualities. This leads him to react negatively to models who exhibit elegantly androgynous features in an unmistakably feminine context. Highly defined cheekbones and a sharp, delicate jawline do not make a petite, feminine face look masculine, they give the woman who possesses them strikingly androgynous looks which most people find more attractive than a typically bland female face.
In short, Erik is a "heterosexual-exclusive" man who finds anything other than completely feminine women to be unattractive. He thinks that any woman with androgynous features looks transsexual, and that any man who'd finds her attractive is potentially "gay".
Adriana sells sexy, it's her job. As for the woman herself she admitted to be very shy in real life.
Different people have different taste in women. Some like sexy some like beauty.
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