I think these pictures will illustrate my point. You cannot take eyes and nose in this case - isolate them from the overall facial structure - and say that "these are Nordic nose and eyes so she must look Nordic." You have to view her whole face in its entirety in order to assess where she is ethnically from (unless you read her name, that is. LOL) Ekaterina Joukova's face has a very Slavic form and no one would mistake her for a Nordic girl if they are familiar with them.
This Russian woman actually look much more Nordic than...
..this Russian woman with fairly close-set eyes,
or this one. They look Slavic despite the position of their eyes.
Most Nordic women have normally-set eyes and a nose that is straighter, finer and less hooked than those of many Eastern European women. Their facial features are more refined and less coarse than what you generally see in Slavic women. There are Nordics who have fairly close-set eyes and then there are the Danish women who often have wide-set eyes, so there are different types among Nordics.
RE: the study mentioned in the last post by "Roy". I find it disturbing that the two groups were able to come to such radically different conclusions, but the second study doesn't support Frost, either.
Although polygyny (males having multiple female mates) is a sexbiased
process that has been observed in some human populations2, it
would predict a rise in the ratio above 3/4, which is opposite to what
we observe.
[. . .]
We have shown that there was a period of accelerated genetic drift
on chromosome X associated with the human dispersal out of Africa,
which was qualitatively different from what occurred during the subsequent human dispersals into Northern Europe and East Asia.
[. . .]
The ratio of the tMRCA
between chromosome X and the autosomes in West Africans, 0.763 ±
0.026, is consistent with the expected 3/4
No. I am not the one that posts thousands of pictures on a website. Not to mention that you visit it like every 3 hours. Then you constantly ramble about how white women are superior, blah blah blah. REALLY? REALLY? Im the one with the self-esteem issues?
"You're not white"
Uh... last time I checked I was white. Do blue eyes, white skin, and dark blonde/light brown hair count? And no i'm not SALAVALIC. I'm Irish,Scottish, and German sweetheart. I freckle and burn in the sun, but afterwards I tan. Oh, I'm sorry is that not WHITE enough for you?
"yes she does look slavic as well but with very nordic features."
Her features are not "very Nordic" at all. Practically everything about her face screams slavic. This girl is EXTREMELY slavic - not Nordic-looking, as you defined her.
I doubt you are even white since you failed to see that she is in fact VERY slavic-looking. No one who knows anything about this would define her as Nordic. Someone who is not white would have a harder time seeing the difference, just as it is harder for whites to see the differences within Asian- or black subtypes.
"She's an attractive Nordic-looking woman."
Your words. The fact is that she is neither particularly attractive, nor is she Nordic-looking AT ALL. By the way, I don't think Erik chose her because he thought she is attractive but because it is wrong of the fashion-industry to say that she is too old and not thin enough to become a model. I agree with him on that. It IS wrong. However, she is not model "material", and thin or not thin doesn't change that fact in this case.
"So yes Emily I am right to claim she has Nordic features and she is very Nordic looking,"
No. Your statement was incorrect. She is VERY slavic-looking, and does not look Nordic at all. I am Swedish and I know what I'm talking about. You obviously don't.
"My observations are not laughable Emily, your ignorance and your lack of"
Your blatant attempt at misinforming people here - or at the very least your embarrassing ignorance - are the things that are laughable. You don't even realize what a blunder you just made, and that anyone who truly knows what they are talking about sees it. Nordics would recognize this woman as a slavic Eastern European right away. One would have thought that at least her name would have given you a clue since her pictures obviously didn't. LOL
"self-esteem are. Open your eyes! Realize the beauty and variety around you!"
There is nothing wrong with my self-esteem. How about yours?
yes she does look slavic as well but with very nordic features. She has nordic eyes, a nordic nose, actually the only thing that makes her look slavic are her face shape and cheekbones. Her face is a little on the round side, her cheekbones more lateral(which is a very feminine trait actually and posessed by many slavic girls. Otherwise her eyes are a pale blue and set close, her nose is thin and long and these are all nordic traits. You can tell she is from Russia or the Ukraine or something like that because you can tell by her features her DNA derives from the North and is probably the result of mixture with "Nordics". So yes Emily I am right to claim she has Nordic features and she is very Nordic looking, because she is. My observations are not laughable Emily, your ignorance and your lack of self-esteem are. Open your eyes! Realize the beauty and variety around you! If life was not filled with variety it would be sooo bland and boring! Enjoy the variety, don't degrade it!
I think these pictures could be of interest. The downside of "too much" femininity in a race is that Asian men generally don't look masculine compared to white men, for example. A common complaint from Asian men is that whereas white men are interested in Asian women, white women have little or no interest in Asian men.
The truth is that Asian men in general are not masculine enough. I have noticed that there is very little difference between the sexes, and that Asian men often look androgynous - or even feminine.
This Asian man wanted to look more masculine. The result is that he now looks like a white/asian mixture. He has had surgeries on virtually all parts of his face, apparently, including his forehead.
Also, You are the one not paying attention to form and structure since you thought she was Nordic-looking. I actually laughed when I read that. She looks extremely slavic. Pay more attention to form and structure of the face and less attention to measurements and "boobs", as you call them. ;)
I read the thread where she posted her photos and where she asked for opinions, and most photographers and models discouraged her and some even called her an attention seeker. Most didn't take her seriously. Neither did I when I first saw her pictures.
This comment on Katerina comes from a photographer;
"This is another case of ," can I be signed/a model/ supermodel/Victoria secret model/Abercrombie &fitch model, and I do NOT CARE if you say NO i cant be cause I don't care and will do it anyway." kind of Thread. I just had one with a midget Asian Girl asking if she could be JUST a BEAUTY model.Which is not Possible.
But they dont care what the actual real honest to goodness experienced AGENCY LEVEL PROFESSIONALS have to say , They are going to do it because MISS_________ (fill in the blanks IE , Kate Moss, or some MM member ) did it and they weren't Agency Height /standards ,etc , their egos are so super inflated that they have lost any kind of reasoning and logic that they MAY have had.
They forget that they are not good looking enough nor uniquely beautiful enough for an agency to sign them or for them to even become more then a WEB WANNA BE. I call TROLL / I WANT ATTENTION on all of these type of threads.
If they were serious they wouldn't be wasting their time asking a lot more 'non agency pros' , if they have what it takes to 'make it'. 'Make it' how?
'make it' , where? 'make it' , what?
Stop the threads and GO TO A REAL LEGIT LEGAL MODELING AGENCY AND FIND OUT IF YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES. GO FIND OUT HOW MUCH MORE HARSH THEY ARE THEN ANYTHING OR ANYONE ON MM CAN BE TO YOU, You WILL HEAR THE HONEST TRUTH FROM THEM .
Attention troll ."
Instead of attacking me personally, stick to the topic. Personal attacks look like insecurity and show a lack of real arguments. This site is by its very nature superficial. You are ignorant if you haven't figured that out yet. So why are you here? If commenting on pictures here makes a person superficial in your eyes I would suggest that YOU are extremely superficial and immature when you judge people you don't know based on a site they sometimes visit. You are also an hypocrite in that you are doing the exact same thing here. You know absolutely nothing about me and I am not the topic of discussion. Period.
Also, your false definition of my opinion of beauty and femininity is laughable and pathetic. Your comment was hostile and blatantly dishonest. You have an agenda, clearly. You think that by discrediting me personally you will also shoot a hole in my arguments. The problem for you is that it doesn't work that way. You only look like you are desperate and a person who has no real arguments. I don't attack you viciously only because your taste is different from mine. Refrain from doing that to me, and get some manners.
Most people wouldn't find this girl very attractive. Not even in ordinary settings, and she wants to become a runway model. Actually, she does not look Nordic, by the way. She looks slavic. There are VERY good-looking slavic girls who work as models, but she's not one of them.
Finally, I realize this is a sensitive subject and that everyone wants their race to be the most beautiful. There is always loyalty-issues that come to play. I know that my opinion cannot be shared by everyone - although I do believe that they generally are shared by a majority of people. I have never "defended" the Nordic type. I have corrected misconceptions and blatantly false statements. Since I live in Scandinavia I know when someone is not being truthful on that subject. I would have done the same if someone had said that blacks usually have fair complexion and blue eyes.
I have no interest in sparing anyone's feelings. Neither do I have an interest in hurting anyone, or attacking them personally when they don't agree with me. If the topic is too difficult you don't have to visit the site. No one is forcing anyone. I present my opinion like everyone else, and in a far more polite manner than many others here, I might add.
To Emily:
well I think this girl is attractive and she has very feminine features. I find it funny Emily, that you believe she is not that attractive since she has very "Nordic" features. It's because you cannot see past superficiality Emily, that you fail to pay attention to form, structure, etc. instead of just bright dyed blonde hair, blue eyes with a fake tan, fake boobs, and a party dress or top, like in your pictures. This girl has very delicate facial features, and she is an attractive "Nordic" looking woman. I have read your other posts Emily and you are wrong about Asians, Indians, etc. Nordic women are on average EXTREMELY attractive, however it is ignorant to believe that only THEY are attractive or that they are on average more attractive than Asians or other races. I truly believe that the races are balanced out in various ways in terms of attractiveness. Besides, lets say there is truth to your statement that Nordic women are most attractive, if an Asian women came by that was more attractive than the average Nordic woman, I would go for that Asian girl instead of any Nordic chick, so it doesn't matter about the race as a whole, it depends on the individual. I can care less what race or nationality you are, if you are more attractive than another girl, I will go for you. However, I see why you feel the need to defend yourself. In other posts others have put down the "Nordic" woman, but you must understand they too were just defending their race. This whole subject is very delicate because who wouldn't want their race to be prettiest, smartest, etc? Because this is a reflection of that person, or is it? It doesn't matter if your race is prettier on average or smarter etc. because that does not make you prettier than anyone else or smarter. It depends on you as an individual.
Erik:
I agree this woman is attractive. However, I disagree on her measurements and her weight. She is not that curvy and not a typical hourglass shape. She is close, but not there. I don't think a woman needs to have a "perfect" hourglass shape and disagree that on ALL occasions having this shape will automatically maker her more attractive than any other woman. I do think that a beautiful woman should have curves and yes this woman does have some curves. But she is not a 34-25-36, it is obvious.
I just recently wandered in here from a Google image search, and, having read the writings, feel I must commend you for creating an excellent website, free of the modern egalitarian nonsense that is stifling everyone of genuine sense and decency.
Some of the comments here are typical. Wherever the assertion is made that people are not equal, be it in beauty or mental ability, the envious begin their obviously motivated attacks, and the I-am-a-paragon-of-morality-unlike-you moral masturbators start their pleasuring.
I have compassion for the envious, as envy is the worst feeling ever, and I would, if a button were presented to me that to push would render everyone beautiful, push it, but my compassion ends when they begin, as most do, to cut others down to soothe their feelings, or make unreasonable demands of others, such as wanting the truth to be repressed, to others' detriment, because it pains them to know it.
The quantity of attractive women a country has also matters in that you would feel utterly misled if you look at glamour pictures of Asian- and Indian models and go there thinking that's what they look like.
Not that many people look at Indian women, there is no such thing as "brown" fever.
There are "Indiaphiles", but they are far outnumbered by the fans of East Asian looks.
I don't think this girl is particularly attractive. Especially the last picture reveals that. If you aren't attractive in the traditional sense there has to be something else about you that stands out and makes you unique and interesting in some other way. This girl hasn't got that something special - neither is she very attractive in the traditional sense. I doubt photographers who work in the fashion industry encourage her to become a model.
I do think it's terrible that an 18-year-old is considered "old" and that you have to be anorexic-looking in order to get work. There are probably many girls who are far prettier than this one who also get the cold shoulder by the fashion industry for not being thin enough. Maybe we need laws that regulate the fashion industry since it seems to be totally unwilling to take responsibility for the health of its models and for the dangerous, unhealthy ideal it promotes.
Also, I did address the "quality of femininity" in Asian women. That was THE very thing I was doing.
"Why should we not compare the best looking feminine women from one culture to the best looking feminine women from another?"
We could do that, as long as we are fair when we compare. Comparing half-asian glamour models to ordinary Nordics, or fashion-models to ordinary people, is not correct and does not give an honest picture. That was my point, which you would know if you had read what I wrote.
Also, comparing femininity doesn't favor Asian women since they are too underdeveloped and immature in their looks for Western taste. The very quality of femininity in Asian women was the thing I addressed in my comments here, and I think it is overrated, quite frankly. The more I looked at pictures of ordinary Asian women I found this to be true. Westerners are used to seeing pictures of (half)Asian models and they think that's what they look like. They don't..
True femininity is also linked to adulthood and to maturity. If you look like an adolescent kid when you are 26 it's not feminine - it's weird. That's why Western pedophiles flock to Asian countries. It is well-known that they look like young adolescent girls rather than adult women.
"How else do you expect to come to a conclusion about attractiveness?"
You don't compare models. You can always find very attractive models - and very masculine or feminine models - but they are not the people you will see when you visit a country. The live "impression" you will get - and the overall appearance of real people - is what you get when you see ordinary, "real" women of a country - not when you read a fashion magazine.
The quantity of attractive women a country has also matters in that you would feel utterly misled if you look at glamour pictures of Asian- and Indian models and go there thinking that's what they look like.
You wouldn't feel as fooled if you did the same with Nordic pictures since a LOT of people here look good in that way. Now, THAT'S What matters to men..darling.
"seem to imply you are loosing sight of the ball,it is not the quantity of feminine women in a particular culture that is appreciated but the QUALITY of them"
Really? Let's see.. England is well-known for its very attractive women. The English Rose can be absolutely beautiful. The problem is there are so few of them. A common complaint from men. They are very rare. When you visit a place in the hope of seeing beauty - whatever kind it may be - nature, architecture, arts, people..women..., you tend to go places where you stand a fair chance of experiencing and appreciating the things that interest you - not somewhere where you have to look long and hard. Sure, you might go to Denmark if you love lions. There is an animal park there that has some lions, but if you truly have a passion for them you would go to Africa, no?
Also, when it comes to quality, Nordic women are among the most beautiful on Earth. When it comes to quantity of them, well, take 500 people from the street in Stockholm and do the same thing in Hanoi or Tokyo, and you would see more very beautiful women within that random sample in Stockholm..and VERY beautiful ones at that. So, quality matters - and quantity does, as well. Pretending it doesn't is intellectually dishonest.
Those who have less beautiful women - and above all fewer of them - use your argument. To me it sounds more like desperation than anything else. It's like saying "we have a few very beautiful women here, but there are not that many of them, though. Island is another good example. There are few people, but an astounding amount of them are highly attractive - the very opposite of Asian countries where very few people are highly attractive, and the "quality" is low, on average, at least from the perspective of a Nordic.
This is of course my opinion, but I think it is shared by most Western men.
"Although you can deem a particular type of nose shape or lip shape more desirable than another, it is ULTIMATELY the IMPRESSION that the OVERALL APPEARANCE leaves on the mind that is appreciated so with this in mind having a slightly
malformed/hooked nose or any other feature does not necessirily detract from the overall attractivness,"
Of course it's the general impression of the overall appearance that matters. However, the general impression is dragged down by the many unattractive features these women possess. Sure, a very attractive woman who has a hooked nose is still very attractive, (unless that feature is so ugly that it totally destroys the impression) at least from some angles. However, a similarly attractive woman without that hooked nose would often be more attractive, since the hooked nose is a prominent feature that could distract and make the overall impression less favorable.
Your repetitive posts seem to imply you are loosing sight of the ball,it is not the quantity of feminine women in a particular culture that is appreciated but the QUALITY of them just see how often erik changes his attractive womens section to appractiate this basic point. Although you can deem a particular type of nose shape or lip shape more desirable than another, it is ULTIMATELY the IMPRESSION that the OVERALL APPEARANCE leaves on the mind that is appreciated so with this in mind having a slightly malformed/hooked nose or any other feature does not necessirily detract from the overall attractivness, Erik labelled it as "appeal notwithstanding obvious, including serious, shortcomings" as in the example of Linda D with the malformed nose. It is not a fight against which culture has more feminine looking women than another, having more feminine women in a particular culture is beside the point it does not tell you anything about the quality of them. Femininity as Erik rightly says is the strongest correlate of beauty but is not the ONLY correlate i.e femininity is only part of the sum and not the WHOLE TOTAL of the sum, in the race for beauty everything counts hair,eye,skin colour,eye, nose shape etc.... and until we can OBJECTIVELY assess ALL these factore and come to a conclusion as to which are deemed more desirable we are only on the half way mark. Feminine women can be found in ALL cultures and is not EXCLUSIVELY a european trait. Certanly there are many feminine looking european women around but so what? why keep pointing it out? there are many feminine beauties outside of european culture too, theres no secret about it. Erik has established what femininity is. Why should we not compare the best looking feminine women from one culture to the best looking feminine women from another? Ordinary indivuals or galamour models does not change there physical apperance in any way unless they have had plastic surgery. How else do you expect to come to a conclusion about attractiveness? There is no point comparing masculine women with feminine women if your intention is to point out the feminine woman is more beautiful than the masculine women because erik has already established femininity as a strong correlate of beauty, your are merely going over old ground . You need to find the best looking feminine beauties from both cultures and as Erik says although you may not be able to objectively compare them on a fair basis you can certainly as Erik says find which one out of the two is deemed more attractive simply based on the judgement of a majority. So please cut down on your picture posting or send a link because its not making reading the site any easier.
Well, you can define their noses in any way you like. Big or small, the fact remains that Asian noses are often unattractive to Westerners. They often have very broad noses with big nostrils and large, visible nose apertures. Saying they have "narrow" noses is intellectually dishonest since only the upper part is narrow and is followed by a very broad lower part.
It is mostly a matter of shape, I think. The shape of their noses make them strangely primitive and coarse.
I disagree when you say there are many extremely good looking Asians. Again, I'm not talking about models but ordinary people. They can sometimes have a cute, "doggish" face in a rather underdeveloped and flat kind of way, but their tiny and underdeveloped bodies often attract men who like adolescent girls rather than adult women. The sex industry in Asia cater to these men. Also, their eyes are almost always very unappealing to Westerners.
We see comparatively few of them in the media and in the entertainment industry here because people aren't attracted to them. I don't want to sound mean but sometimes the truth isn't very kind. Many Asians don't find whites appealing either, I suppose, so it goes both ways.
There are always exceptions. Since there are many, many Asians there will be those who look good also to Westerners, but more often than not these people will be of white/ asian mixture (often 50-50) - not 100% Asian.
This is one of the most stupid sites I've seen in a while, and I'm in the web industry. I hope your ad hits make up for your idiocy. You just made a lot of people drop an IQ point by condescending to read and respond to your posts.
Thankyou, Erik, for your thought provoking ideas. The fact that some people are unable to cope with different opinions and immediately tackle the person rather than the ideas is predictable.
Despite the inevitable criticism and rancor that such a topic unleashes it is great to have some opinion and discussion on the matter.
I believe you have been very brave to express your opinions and attempt to do it in a cogent way. Your thoughts about homosexual perceptions of female beauty make sense from my own limited experience.
I would encourage everyone who reads the content of your site to reflect about the matter in terms of our children and, if you are getting cross, just put down your arms to think it through.
Of course everyone will have a different take on this (that's a given), so we don't need to attack anyone (as if that actually does anything positive anyway).
Better to use this material, I feel, as a catalyst for open thought.
So let's all have our say with dignity. Why not disagree, verify and qualify to explore this? Thoughtful discourse is good.
Personally, I have a richer appreciation of beauty in women so the paradigm of beauty used here is too limiting for me. But good on you for making a serious effort to raise these matters. Be nice to also add a section on male beauty... or does that cross a cultural line in the US?
I agree that Northern Europeans are more attractive, on average, than Asians... but if you think Asians have "HUGE noses" you're ignorant. Asians have the smallest nasal bones overall and don't have flared nasal apertures typically... which means they have narrow AND flat noses. Also many Asians do not have small eyes. There are many extremely good looking Asian people and judging from the amount of Asian fetishism in the western world I think a hell of a lot of Whites agree with that.
Here we go again. Pictures of glamour models are NOT in any way representative for ordinary Asian women. They don't look like that. I could use only model pictures of Nordics but I did not. I posted many, many pictures of ordinary Swedes, Swdes you will readily see on the streets here, until someone started to trying to disprove me by posting photos of models.
You CANNOT use model pictures and say that that's what Asian women look like. The truth is that Asian women generally look like the ordinary women I showed you. So, you have to compare photos of ordinary women, or else I would have to start responding by showing only glamour model pictures of Nordics.
The truth is also that pure Nordics are often VERY beautiful, whereas pure Asians are NOT often that beautiful due to their round faces, HUGE noses, strange, small eyes, yellowish complexion and non'existing curves (no buttocks and breasts, and very short legs). That's why Asian- or even half-Asian model pictures are used as comparisons to ordinary Nordics. Give me a break.
Right. Nicole Kidman is probably black or asian and Hugh Jackman is aboriginal. How silly of me! Why believe your lying eyes? They are ethnically Nordic and good representations for Nordics.
Most Swedish women do not have blonde hair 'Emily'
Erik,
http://www.outlookindia.com/images/glit_ferena_wazier_20070924.jpg
Fem or masc? what do you think of her looks?
I think these pictures will illustrate my point. You cannot take eyes and nose in this case - isolate them from the overall facial structure - and say that "these are Nordic nose and eyes so she must look Nordic." You have to view her whole face in its entirety in order to assess where she is ethnically from (unless you read her name, that is. LOL) Ekaterina Joukova's face has a very Slavic form and no one would mistake her for a Nordic girl if they are familiar with them.
This Russian woman actually look much more Nordic than...
..this Russian woman with fairly close-set eyes,
or this one. They look Slavic despite the position of their eyes.
Most Nordic women have normally-set eyes and a nose that is straighter, finer and less hooked than those of many Eastern European women. Their facial features are more refined and less coarse than what you generally see in Slavic women. There are Nordics who have fairly close-set eyes and then there are the Danish women who often have wide-set eyes, so there are different types among Nordics.
Swedish woman.
Swedish woman.
Swedish woman.
Emily,
"To me it sounds more like desperation"
To me, you sound more like a JOKER!!!
RE: the study mentioned in the last post by "Roy". I find it disturbing that the two groups were able to come to such radically different conclusions, but the second study doesn't support Frost, either.
Although polygyny (males having multiple female mates) is a sexbiased
process that has been observed in some human populations2, it
would predict a rise in the ratio above 3/4, which is opposite to what
we observe.
[. . .]
We have shown that there was a period of accelerated genetic drift
on chromosome X associated with the human dispersal out of Africa,
which was qualitatively different from what occurred during the subsequent human dispersals into Northern Europe and East Asia.
[. . .]
The ratio of the tMRCA
between chromosome X and the autosomes in West Africans, 0.763 ±
0.026, is consistent with the expected 3/4
Hugh is even part Aboriginal.
Liar.
Hugh Jackman: "Both my parents are English and came out to Australia in 1967"
am I the one with the self-esteem problem?
No. I am not the one that posts thousands of pictures on a website. Not to mention that you visit it like every 3 hours. Then you constantly ramble about how white women are superior, blah blah blah. REALLY? REALLY? Im the one with the self-esteem issues?
"You're not white"
Uh... last time I checked I was white. Do blue eyes, white skin, and dark blonde/light brown hair count? And no i'm not SALAVALIC. I'm Irish,Scottish, and German sweetheart. I freckle and burn in the sun, but afterwards I tan. Oh, I'm sorry is that not WHITE enough for you?
"yes she does look slavic as well but with very nordic features."
Her features are not "very Nordic" at all. Practically everything about her face screams slavic. This girl is EXTREMELY slavic - not Nordic-looking, as you defined her.
I doubt you are even white since you failed to see that she is in fact VERY slavic-looking. No one who knows anything about this would define her as Nordic. Someone who is not white would have a harder time seeing the difference, just as it is harder for whites to see the differences within Asian- or black subtypes.
"She's an attractive Nordic-looking woman."
Your words. The fact is that she is neither particularly attractive, nor is she Nordic-looking AT ALL. By the way, I don't think Erik chose her because he thought she is attractive but because it is wrong of the fashion-industry to say that she is too old and not thin enough to become a model. I agree with him on that. It IS wrong. However, she is not model "material", and thin or not thin doesn't change that fact in this case.
"So yes Emily I am right to claim she has Nordic features and she is very Nordic looking,"
No. Your statement was incorrect. She is VERY slavic-looking, and does not look Nordic at all. I am Swedish and I know what I'm talking about. You obviously don't.
"My observations are not laughable Emily, your ignorance and your lack of"
Your blatant attempt at misinforming people here - or at the very least your embarrassing ignorance - are the things that are laughable. You don't even realize what a blunder you just made, and that anyone who truly knows what they are talking about sees it. Nordics would recognize this woman as a slavic Eastern European right away. One would have thought that at least her name would have given you a clue since her pictures obviously didn't. LOL
"self-esteem are. Open your eyes! Realize the beauty and variety around you!"
There is nothing wrong with my self-esteem. How about yours?
yes she does look slavic as well but with very nordic features. She has nordic eyes, a nordic nose, actually the only thing that makes her look slavic are her face shape and cheekbones. Her face is a little on the round side, her cheekbones more lateral(which is a very feminine trait actually and posessed by many slavic girls. Otherwise her eyes are a pale blue and set close, her nose is thin and long and these are all nordic traits. You can tell she is from Russia or the Ukraine or something like that because you can tell by her features her DNA derives from the North and is probably the result of mixture with "Nordics". So yes Emily I am right to claim she has Nordic features and she is very Nordic looking, because she is. My observations are not laughable Emily, your ignorance and your lack of self-esteem are. Open your eyes! Realize the beauty and variety around you! If life was not filled with variety it would be sooo bland and boring! Enjoy the variety, don't degrade it!
I think these pictures could be of interest. The downside of "too much" femininity in a race is that Asian men generally don't look masculine compared to white men, for example. A common complaint from Asian men is that whereas white men are interested in Asian women, white women have little or no interest in Asian men.
The truth is that Asian men in general are not masculine enough. I have noticed that there is very little difference between the sexes, and that Asian men often look androgynous - or even feminine.
This Asian man wanted to look more masculine. The result is that he now looks like a white/asian mixture. He has had surgeries on virtually all parts of his face, apparently, including his forehead.
Also, You are the one not paying attention to form and structure since you thought she was Nordic-looking. I actually laughed when I read that. She looks extremely slavic. Pay more attention to form and structure of the face and less attention to measurements and "boobs", as you call them. ;)
I read the thread where she posted her photos and where she asked for opinions, and most photographers and models discouraged her and some even called her an attention seeker. Most didn't take her seriously. Neither did I when I first saw her pictures.
This comment on Katerina comes from a photographer;
"This is another case of ," can I be signed/a model/ supermodel/Victoria secret model/Abercrombie &fitch model, and I do NOT CARE if you say NO i cant be cause I don't care and will do it anyway." kind of Thread. I just had one with a midget Asian Girl asking if she could be JUST a BEAUTY model.Which is not Possible.
But they dont care what the actual real honest to goodness experienced AGENCY LEVEL PROFESSIONALS have to say , They are going to do it because MISS_________ (fill in the blanks IE , Kate Moss, or some MM member ) did it and they weren't Agency Height /standards ,etc , their egos are so super inflated that they have lost any kind of reasoning and logic that they MAY have had.
They forget that they are not good looking enough nor uniquely beautiful enough for an agency to sign them or for them to even become more then a WEB WANNA BE. I call TROLL / I WANT ATTENTION on all of these type of threads.
If they were serious they wouldn't be wasting their time asking a lot more 'non agency pros' , if they have what it takes to 'make it'. 'Make it' how?
'make it' , where? 'make it' , what?
Stop the threads and GO TO A REAL LEGIT LEGAL MODELING AGENCY AND FIND OUT IF YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES. GO FIND OUT HOW MUCH MORE HARSH THEY ARE THEN ANYTHING OR ANYONE ON MM CAN BE TO YOU, You WILL HEAR THE HONEST TRUTH FROM THEM .
Attention troll ."
Instead of attacking me personally, stick to the topic. Personal attacks look like insecurity and show a lack of real arguments. This site is by its very nature superficial. You are ignorant if you haven't figured that out yet. So why are you here? If commenting on pictures here makes a person superficial in your eyes I would suggest that YOU are extremely superficial and immature when you judge people you don't know based on a site they sometimes visit. You are also an hypocrite in that you are doing the exact same thing here. You know absolutely nothing about me and I am not the topic of discussion. Period.
Also, your false definition of my opinion of beauty and femininity is laughable and pathetic. Your comment was hostile and blatantly dishonest. You have an agenda, clearly. You think that by discrediting me personally you will also shoot a hole in my arguments. The problem for you is that it doesn't work that way. You only look like you are desperate and a person who has no real arguments. I don't attack you viciously only because your taste is different from mine. Refrain from doing that to me, and get some manners.
Most people wouldn't find this girl very attractive. Not even in ordinary settings, and she wants to become a runway model. Actually, she does not look Nordic, by the way. She looks slavic. There are VERY good-looking slavic girls who work as models, but she's not one of them.
Finally, I realize this is a sensitive subject and that everyone wants their race to be the most beautiful. There is always loyalty-issues that come to play. I know that my opinion cannot be shared by everyone - although I do believe that they generally are shared by a majority of people. I have never "defended" the Nordic type. I have corrected misconceptions and blatantly false statements. Since I live in Scandinavia I know when someone is not being truthful on that subject. I would have done the same if someone had said that blacks usually have fair complexion and blue eyes.
I have no interest in sparing anyone's feelings. Neither do I have an interest in hurting anyone, or attacking them personally when they don't agree with me. If the topic is too difficult you don't have to visit the site. No one is forcing anyone. I present my opinion like everyone else, and in a far more polite manner than many others here, I might add.
To Emily:
well I think this girl is attractive and she has very feminine features. I find it funny Emily, that you believe she is not that attractive since she has very "Nordic" features. It's because you cannot see past superficiality Emily, that you fail to pay attention to form, structure, etc. instead of just bright dyed blonde hair, blue eyes with a fake tan, fake boobs, and a party dress or top, like in your pictures. This girl has very delicate facial features, and she is an attractive "Nordic" looking woman. I have read your other posts Emily and you are wrong about Asians, Indians, etc. Nordic women are on average EXTREMELY attractive, however it is ignorant to believe that only THEY are attractive or that they are on average more attractive than Asians or other races. I truly believe that the races are balanced out in various ways in terms of attractiveness. Besides, lets say there is truth to your statement that Nordic women are most attractive, if an Asian women came by that was more attractive than the average Nordic woman, I would go for that Asian girl instead of any Nordic chick, so it doesn't matter about the race as a whole, it depends on the individual. I can care less what race or nationality you are, if you are more attractive than another girl, I will go for you. However, I see why you feel the need to defend yourself. In other posts others have put down the "Nordic" woman, but you must understand they too were just defending their race. This whole subject is very delicate because who wouldn't want their race to be prettiest, smartest, etc? Because this is a reflection of that person, or is it? It doesn't matter if your race is prettier on average or smarter etc. because that does not make you prettier than anyone else or smarter. It depends on you as an individual.
Erik:
I agree this woman is attractive. However, I disagree on her measurements and her weight. She is not that curvy and not a typical hourglass shape. She is close, but not there. I don't think a woman needs to have a "perfect" hourglass shape and disagree that on ALL occasions having this shape will automatically maker her more attractive than any other woman. I do think that a beautiful woman should have curves and yes this woman does have some curves. But she is not a 34-25-36, it is obvious.
I just recently wandered in here from a Google image search, and, having read the writings, feel I must commend you for creating an excellent website, free of the modern egalitarian nonsense that is stifling everyone of genuine sense and decency.
Some of the comments here are typical. Wherever the assertion is made that people are not equal, be it in beauty or mental ability, the envious begin their obviously motivated attacks, and the I-am-a-paragon-of-morality-unlike-you moral masturbators start their pleasuring.
I have compassion for the envious, as envy is the worst feeling ever, and I would, if a button were presented to me that to push would render everyone beautiful, push it, but my compassion ends when they begin, as most do, to cut others down to soothe their feelings, or make unreasonable demands of others, such as wanting the truth to be repressed, to others' detriment, because it pains them to know it.
The quantity of attractive women a country has also matters in that you would feel utterly misled if you look at glamour pictures of Asian- and Indian models and go there thinking that's what they look like.
Not that many people look at Indian women, there is no such thing as "brown" fever.
There are "Indiaphiles", but they are far outnumbered by the fans of East Asian looks.
I don't think this girl is particularly attractive. Especially the last picture reveals that. If you aren't attractive in the traditional sense there has to be something else about you that stands out and makes you unique and interesting in some other way. This girl hasn't got that something special - neither is she very attractive in the traditional sense. I doubt photographers who work in the fashion industry encourage her to become a model.
I do think it's terrible that an 18-year-old is considered "old" and that you have to be anorexic-looking in order to get work. There are probably many girls who are far prettier than this one who also get the cold shoulder by the fashion industry for not being thin enough. Maybe we need laws that regulate the fashion industry since it seems to be totally unwilling to take responsibility for the health of its models and for the dangerous, unhealthy ideal it promotes.
Also, I did address the "quality of femininity" in Asian women. That was THE very thing I was doing.
"Why should we not compare the best looking feminine women from one culture to the best looking feminine women from another?"
We could do that, as long as we are fair when we compare. Comparing half-asian glamour models to ordinary Nordics, or fashion-models to ordinary people, is not correct and does not give an honest picture. That was my point, which you would know if you had read what I wrote.
Also, comparing femininity doesn't favor Asian women since they are too underdeveloped and immature in their looks for Western taste. The very quality of femininity in Asian women was the thing I addressed in my comments here, and I think it is overrated, quite frankly. The more I looked at pictures of ordinary Asian women I found this to be true. Westerners are used to seeing pictures of (half)Asian models and they think that's what they look like. They don't..
True femininity is also linked to adulthood and to maturity. If you look like an adolescent kid when you are 26 it's not feminine - it's weird. That's why Western pedophiles flock to Asian countries. It is well-known that they look like young adolescent girls rather than adult women.
"How else do you expect to come to a conclusion about attractiveness?"
You don't compare models. You can always find very attractive models - and very masculine or feminine models - but they are not the people you will see when you visit a country. The live "impression" you will get - and the overall appearance of real people - is what you get when you see ordinary, "real" women of a country - not when you read a fashion magazine.
The quantity of attractive women a country has also matters in that you would feel utterly misled if you look at glamour pictures of Asian- and Indian models and go there thinking that's what they look like.
You wouldn't feel as fooled if you did the same with Nordic pictures since a LOT of people here look good in that way. Now, THAT'S What matters to men..darling.
"seem to imply you are loosing sight of the ball,it is not the quantity of feminine women in a particular culture that is appreciated but the QUALITY of them"
Really? Let's see.. England is well-known for its very attractive women. The English Rose can be absolutely beautiful. The problem is there are so few of them. A common complaint from men. They are very rare. When you visit a place in the hope of seeing beauty - whatever kind it may be - nature, architecture, arts, people..women..., you tend to go places where you stand a fair chance of experiencing and appreciating the things that interest you - not somewhere where you have to look long and hard. Sure, you might go to Denmark if you love lions. There is an animal park there that has some lions, but if you truly have a passion for them you would go to Africa, no?
Also, when it comes to quality, Nordic women are among the most beautiful on Earth. When it comes to quantity of them, well, take 500 people from the street in Stockholm and do the same thing in Hanoi or Tokyo, and you would see more very beautiful women within that random sample in Stockholm..and VERY beautiful ones at that. So, quality matters - and quantity does, as well. Pretending it doesn't is intellectually dishonest.
Those who have less beautiful women - and above all fewer of them - use your argument. To me it sounds more like desperation than anything else. It's like saying "we have a few very beautiful women here, but there are not that many of them, though. Island is another good example. There are few people, but an astounding amount of them are highly attractive - the very opposite of Asian countries where very few people are highly attractive, and the "quality" is low, on average, at least from the perspective of a Nordic.
This is of course my opinion, but I think it is shared by most Western men.
"Although you can deem a particular type of nose shape or lip shape more desirable than another, it is ULTIMATELY the IMPRESSION that the OVERALL APPEARANCE leaves on the mind that is appreciated so with this in mind having a slightly
malformed/hooked nose or any other feature does not necessirily detract from the overall attractivness,"
Of course it's the general impression of the overall appearance that matters. However, the general impression is dragged down by the many unattractive features these women possess. Sure, a very attractive woman who has a hooked nose is still very attractive, (unless that feature is so ugly that it totally destroys the impression) at least from some angles. However, a similarly attractive woman without that hooked nose would often be more attractive, since the hooked nose is a prominent feature that could distract and make the overall impression less favorable.
Emily Darling,
Your repetitive posts seem to imply you are loosing sight of the ball,it is not the quantity of feminine women in a particular culture that is appreciated but the QUALITY of them just see how often erik changes his attractive womens section to appractiate this basic point. Although you can deem a particular type of nose shape or lip shape more desirable than another, it is ULTIMATELY the IMPRESSION that the OVERALL APPEARANCE leaves on the mind that is appreciated so with this in mind having a slightly malformed/hooked nose or any other feature does not necessirily detract from the overall attractivness, Erik labelled it as "appeal notwithstanding obvious, including serious, shortcomings" as in the example of Linda D with the malformed nose. It is not a fight against which culture has more feminine looking women than another, having more feminine women in a particular culture is beside the point it does not tell you anything about the quality of them. Femininity as Erik rightly says is the strongest correlate of beauty but is not the ONLY correlate i.e femininity is only part of the sum and not the WHOLE TOTAL of the sum, in the race for beauty everything counts hair,eye,skin colour,eye, nose shape etc.... and until we can OBJECTIVELY assess ALL these factore and come to a conclusion as to which are deemed more desirable we are only on the half way mark. Feminine women can be found in ALL cultures and is not EXCLUSIVELY a european trait. Certanly there are many feminine looking european women around but so what? why keep pointing it out? there are many feminine beauties outside of european culture too, theres no secret about it. Erik has established what femininity is. Why should we not compare the best looking feminine women from one culture to the best looking feminine women from another? Ordinary indivuals or galamour models does not change there physical apperance in any way unless they have had plastic surgery. How else do you expect to come to a conclusion about attractiveness? There is no point comparing masculine women with feminine women if your intention is to point out the feminine woman is more beautiful than the masculine women because erik has already established femininity as a strong correlate of beauty, your are merely going over old ground . You need to find the best looking feminine beauties from both cultures and as Erik says although you may not be able to objectively compare them on a fair basis you can certainly as Erik says find which one out of the two is deemed more attractive simply based on the judgement of a majority. So please cut down on your picture posting or send a link because its not making reading the site any easier.
Well, you can define their noses in any way you like. Big or small, the fact remains that Asian noses are often unattractive to Westerners. They often have very broad noses with big nostrils and large, visible nose apertures. Saying they have "narrow" noses is intellectually dishonest since only the upper part is narrow and is followed by a very broad lower part.
It is mostly a matter of shape, I think. The shape of their noses make them strangely primitive and coarse.
I disagree when you say there are many extremely good looking Asians. Again, I'm not talking about models but ordinary people. They can sometimes have a cute, "doggish" face in a rather underdeveloped and flat kind of way, but their tiny and underdeveloped bodies often attract men who like adolescent girls rather than adult women. The sex industry in Asia cater to these men. Also, their eyes are almost always very unappealing to Westerners.
We see comparatively few of them in the media and in the entertainment industry here because people aren't attracted to them. I don't want to sound mean but sometimes the truth isn't very kind. Many Asians don't find whites appealing either, I suppose, so it goes both ways.
There are always exceptions. Since there are many, many Asians there will be those who look good also to Westerners, but more often than not these people will be of white/ asian mixture (often 50-50) - not 100% Asian.
This is one of the most stupid sites I've seen in a while, and I'm in the web industry. I hope your ad hits make up for your idiocy. You just made a lot of people drop an IQ point by condescending to read and respond to your posts.
Thankyou, Erik, for your thought provoking ideas. The fact that some people are unable to cope with different opinions and immediately tackle the person rather than the ideas is predictable.
Despite the inevitable criticism and rancor that such a topic unleashes it is great to have some opinion and discussion on the matter.
I believe you have been very brave to express your opinions and attempt to do it in a cogent way. Your thoughts about homosexual perceptions of female beauty make sense from my own limited experience.
I would encourage everyone who reads the content of your site to reflect about the matter in terms of our children and, if you are getting cross, just put down your arms to think it through.
Of course everyone will have a different take on this (that's a given), so we don't need to attack anyone (as if that actually does anything positive anyway).
Better to use this material, I feel, as a catalyst for open thought.
So let's all have our say with dignity. Why not disagree, verify and qualify to explore this? Thoughtful discourse is good.
Personally, I have a richer appreciation of beauty in women so the paradigm of beauty used here is too limiting for me. But good on you for making a serious effort to raise these matters. Be nice to also add a section on male beauty... or does that cross a cultural line in the US?
Christian
I agree that Northern Europeans are more attractive, on average, than Asians... but if you think Asians have "HUGE noses" you're ignorant. Asians have the smallest nasal bones overall and don't have flared nasal apertures typically... which means they have narrow AND flat noses. Also many Asians do not have small eyes. There are many extremely good looking Asian people and judging from the amount of Asian fetishism in the western world I think a hell of a lot of Whites agree with that.
Here we go again. Pictures of glamour models are NOT in any way representative for ordinary Asian women. They don't look like that. I could use only model pictures of Nordics but I did not. I posted many, many pictures of ordinary Swedes, Swdes you will readily see on the streets here, until someone started to trying to disprove me by posting photos of models.
You CANNOT use model pictures and say that that's what Asian women look like. The truth is that Asian women generally look like the ordinary women I showed you. So, you have to compare photos of ordinary women, or else I would have to start responding by showing only glamour model pictures of Nordics.
The truth is also that pure Nordics are often VERY beautiful, whereas pure Asians are NOT often that beautiful due to their round faces, HUGE noses, strange, small eyes, yellowish complexion and non'existing curves (no buttocks and breasts, and very short legs). That's why Asian- or even half-Asian model pictures are used as comparisons to ordinary Nordics. Give me a break.
Right. Nicole Kidman is probably black or asian and Hugh Jackman is aboriginal. How silly of me! Why believe your lying eyes? They are ethnically Nordic and good representations for Nordics.
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