The professional make up and dental bleaching that celebrities use can make pretty models look fugly and yellow toothed by comparison; it makes celebs look fugly without it - http://teamsugar.com/group/273571/polls/273575. The most "truly beautiful woman" would look like a skank to other women in these poses. Think your stars could look better?
i think that most all the women on the attractive women page are fugly skanks with yellow teeth. they aren't pretty enough to be models, and aren't smart enough to be an actress. fashion models are gorgeous, and statuesque. there is no science of beautiful women,anyone can look at a beautiful woman and say wow! we shouldn't have to take her picture and break it down to a science, that is just stupid.angelina jolie is what you call "masculine", but i have never seen a more beautiful woman. women have many shapes and varieties, because not everyone has the same taste. examples of truly beautiful women: natalie portman, jessica alba, audrey tatou, mila jovovich,jessica simpson, angelina jolie,doutzen kroes,keira knightley,adriana lima, and alessandra ambrosio to name a few. the reason these women don't do porn is because they are way above average looking. you shouldn't have trouble finding a woman you think is beautiful, because you have horrible taste.
The more I read, the more I am convinced this a kind of cultural take-over. Look at the women featured in movies and print until the 1960s. Look at how feminine women were and masculine men were. They were also icons of a gay-hating culture.
That culture was revolutionized and liberated in the 60s, the same time this change started to occur in the fashion industry. I believe this is a kind of take-over and gay-ification of the culture due to long held hate against homophobic classic male archetypes and classic feminine women. It's a "screw you" we will make the world worship creatures created in our OWN image.
If no one complains about what this does to the psychology of womanhood, then we're taking it lying down like so many victims. Stop supporting it and it can't be sold. Girls are starving themselves to look like this. Natural looking women hate their bodies and have no self esteem because they look like girls and not BOYS. Compare this to the ULTRA conservative Latino countries that still worship voluptuous looking natural female bodies.
It's a cultural thing. The fashion gay front had infiltrated Europe but not the classically Catholic Latino cultures where women who have round female forms are still idolized.
I have nothing against gay men or their expression, but it's being heaped on the rest of the culture as if this is the standard for feminitiy. I feel like I should stop supporting this crap in order to set an example for my kids and nieces.
I wonder if some of these women are actually transgendered men, who have the support of the homosexual kingpins of the industry. It would not surprise me in the least. It's totally possible. Surgery is amazing these days. I have seen transgendered fashion shows where the women are more feminine than this even. So it's entirely possible. Another possibility is the idea of forcing these women to take testosterone in order to significantly reduce body fat, slim and tone muscles, and create the angularity achieved by losing facial fat.
It's very disturbing that on the one hand, our really masculine males in society are being feminized and the really feminine -- the overt examples of women -- are being masculinized.
It makes me uncomfortable. I have nothing against gay men, but it appears there is a kind gay male culture infiltrating many cultural touchstones.
Looking masculine could have the reproductively benificial rational of being attractive to women (and perhaps intimidating other men), but for much of evolutionary time men were in short supply especialy in northern Europe so one would expect this relaxed selection of men.
Relaxed sexual selection would result in men looking less masculine; being in short supply they did the choosing and the women were selected for attractiveness, which as you say is feminimity largely.
Given that north European men exibit gracilization how can you be so sure that this is pseudo-femininity. Might it just be the price paid for more feminine beauty in north Europe. The finger ratio for blonds is said to be higher.
Mather,F.,Manning,JT.,&Bundred,PE Evidence for blond hair as a correlate of high prenatal oestrogen prenal(unpublished)on Evo and Proud
Using leading men has a confound associated with it; photogenic people such as Leo and especialy Burt tend to have rather large faces and heads (eg Marilyn Monroe). Lancaster's facial skeleton is robust for sure, I just don't think that the masculine face should have thicker hair and a much bigger lower lip.
Ok... so i've been following this article for quite some time. For the record, I am a young straight man. Quite frankly, the women on here that are posting to knock down other women, GET OVER IT... don't be jealous just because they make their living looking good... I mean, what's the point in bashing down victoria secret models? Does it make you feel better about yourself when you're rudely mocking the profession of some of the most revered women in the world? Like i said, get over the fact that YOU didn't get to do this... As for the women on this site who are ridiculing men for idolizing these beautiful women, again, stop being jealous! Not all men are so shallow as to expect ONLY this for a women when they get married. I'm not going to lie, it's a nice dream, but dreams are only called dreams because they aren't reality. So if you are a woman who thinks that a man won't love you because you don't look like this, YOU are wrong. YOU Are the ones who are at fault, not the men because YOU are the ones lying to yourselves... In my life I have learned to look past the superficial beauty of women who think they NEED to be beautiful, and instead I look for NATURAL beauty. If I am one man who can look for this, I know there are probably MORE men who DO look for this. So women, stop giving up so easily and stop disrespecting these models and their profession. I would love to go head to head with any stubborn woman who disagrees with me on anything I've said, because I am up for the challenge to prove to you that not all men are looking for carbon copies of the women on these pages.
Thanks for your time,
-Eric
P.S. men on this site... I know what you're doing... go get a real girlfriend... >.>
Omg thank you! A lot of models out there are pretty but I never quite understood why Gisele is popular. She always looked like a male to me and I never considered her pretty. So what if she's skinny and tall ...I'm skinny and tall too and I have hips as well! Her face is just so ...ewww compared to other Victoria Secret girls, I really don't think she has a pretty face. Her cheekbones are aweful and her complexion isn't that hot with those freckles.Thanks for this site...finally someone out there thinks the same! Sometimes fashion just has a strange taste.
Men tend to have bigger heads and thicker necks as well as more massive ribcages which creates an impression of shorter legs as a proportion of total height. This might explain short legs being considered feminine.
I noticed something about the posing in the swimsuit photos of Elle, it accentuates her already very masculine shoulder breadth. Why exaggerate this of all things, if not because it's the very thing MacPherson brings to the table as a model - masculine looks.
In every photo (except the paparazi beach) Elle is darker or golden whereas Monica looks pale. Why do the photographers pay for dedicated make-up and lighting personel? Because their subjects wouldn't look sexy enough without a tanned appearance. What impression do pale looking models make "like a deer caught in the headlights" as Kristy put it.
Elle MacPherson does not have breast implants and there is no way that Monica girl is as tall as Elle is...look at the picture of her next to the car, no way! Elle's face is much prettier also, and she can actually model without looking like a deer caught in the headlights.
I would have to say that most of the negativity I've see in this page has been from women towards women. Some women have wider ribcages than others. Some have less fat. Some get breast implants. Get over it! There is no definitive "attractive" benchmark and everyone is different. Obviously Heidi Klum must be doing something right, she's still working isn't she?
And Erik, why don't you write about the biological and behavioural differences between the sexes, specifically mens comparative sexual promiscuity/sexual aggression, shallow affect and lack of conscience
I think the obsession w/ youth is not exlusive to homosexual or bisexual individuals and that it simply depends on the person and not on the sexual orientation. I do believe that homosexual males are influential in the fashion industry but there is no reason for someone to put false stigma on homosexual or bisexual individuals. I think that having thin young looking male models is exactly the same as having thin young looking female ones. HughRistik said ¨The other problem with this ideal is that it might delude some poor straight men into thinking that it is what women actually want¨ just like it has with straight women thinking they need to be thin to be beautiful. By the way HughRustik I think you´re the shortest a male model can be but I´m sure you can I´m 6´2´and I weight 135lbs I´m an aspiring model too but I don´t really know what to do to be a model.
The professional make up and dental bleaching that celebrities use can make pretty models look fugly and yellow toothed by comparison; it makes celebs look fugly without it - http://teamsugar.com/group/273571/polls/273575. The most "truly beautiful woman" would look like a skank to other women in these poses. Think your stars could look better?
i think that most all the women on the attractive women page are fugly skanks with yellow teeth. they aren't pretty enough to be models, and aren't smart enough to be an actress. fashion models are gorgeous, and statuesque. there is no science of beautiful women,anyone can look at a beautiful woman and say wow! we shouldn't have to take her picture and break it down to a science, that is just stupid.angelina jolie is what you call "masculine", but i have never seen a more beautiful woman. women have many shapes and varieties, because not everyone has the same taste. examples of truly beautiful women: natalie portman, jessica alba, audrey tatou, mila jovovich,jessica simpson, angelina jolie,doutzen kroes,keira knightley,adriana lima, and alessandra ambrosio to name a few. the reason these women don't do porn is because they are way above average looking. you shouldn't have trouble finding a woman you think is beautiful, because you have horrible taste.
The more I read, the more I am convinced this a kind of cultural take-over. Look at the women featured in movies and print until the 1960s. Look at how feminine women were and masculine men were. They were also icons of a gay-hating culture.
That culture was revolutionized and liberated in the 60s, the same time this change started to occur in the fashion industry. I believe this is a kind of take-over and gay-ification of the culture due to long held hate against homophobic classic male archetypes and classic feminine women. It's a "screw you" we will make the world worship creatures created in our OWN image.
If no one complains about what this does to the psychology of womanhood, then we're taking it lying down like so many victims. Stop supporting it and it can't be sold. Girls are starving themselves to look like this. Natural looking women hate their bodies and have no self esteem because they look like girls and not BOYS. Compare this to the ULTRA conservative Latino countries that still worship voluptuous looking natural female bodies.
It's a cultural thing. The fashion gay front had infiltrated Europe but not the classically Catholic Latino cultures where women who have round female forms are still idolized.
I have nothing against gay men or their expression, but it's being heaped on the rest of the culture as if this is the standard for feminitiy. I feel like I should stop supporting this crap in order to set an example for my kids and nieces.
I wonder if some of these women are actually transgendered men, who have the support of the homosexual kingpins of the industry. It would not surprise me in the least. It's totally possible. Surgery is amazing these days. I have seen transgendered fashion shows where the women are more feminine than this even. So it's entirely possible. Another possibility is the idea of forcing these women to take testosterone in order to significantly reduce body fat, slim and tone muscles, and create the angularity achieved by losing facial fat.
It's very disturbing that on the one hand, our really masculine males in society are being feminized and the really feminine -- the overt examples of women -- are being masculinized.
It makes me uncomfortable. I have nothing against gay men, but it appears there is a kind gay male culture infiltrating many cultural touchstones.
> Eric, do you honestly think that most people who come across
> this site are going to go through all that "anthropological"
> shit on those pages?
If you aren't interesting in some of the science, then why are you on a site where a significant portion of the info is related to the science?
Great article, but the overuse of passive voice and wrongly ordered words and modifiers was extremely jarring.
Phrases like this were almost unreadable:
"She would go to other agents; such wording will not by her be brooked."
Or even worse, this one:
"Poor girls starved for money, and the industry aimed to its image soften"
Site looks great.
Nice work.
And BTW, I personally find these ladies stinning!
http://aishwarya-rai.topwomen.org/images/aishwarya-rai.jpg
http://shockwave17.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/adrianalima137pe.jpg
http://vivreboutique.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/naomi_campbell.jpg
http://www.skinz.org/celebrity/angelina-jolie/angelina-jolie-wallpapers-3.jpg
http://www.peyman.org/images/claudia_lynx-1-06-11-2005.jpg
They even kinda look alike, regardless thier different races. So beauty is more about math and it is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
I prefer slightly hooked nose to a piggy one. Exotic girls always score more than all the rest!
Check it out.
http://www.myclassiclyrics.com/artist_biographies/Aishwarya_Rai_Biography.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2300/1901563345_a46c381429.jpg
Looking masculine could have the reproductively benificial rational of being attractive to women (and perhaps intimidating other men), but for much of evolutionary time men were in short supply especialy in northern Europe so one would expect this relaxed selection of men.
Relaxed sexual selection would result in men looking less masculine; being in short supply they did the choosing and the women were selected for attractiveness, which as you say is feminimity largely.
Given that north European men exibit gracilization how can you be so sure that this is pseudo-femininity. Might it just be the price paid for more feminine beauty in north Europe. The finger ratio for blonds is said to be higher.
Mather,F.,Manning,JT.,&Bundred,PE Evidence for blond hair as a correlate of high prenatal oestrogen prenal(unpublished)on Evo and Proud
Using leading men has a confound associated with it; photogenic people such as Leo and especialy Burt tend to have rather large faces and heads (eg Marilyn Monroe). Lancaster's facial skeleton is robust for sure, I just don't think that the masculine face should have thicker hair and a much bigger lower lip.
Ok... so i've been following this article for quite some time. For the record, I am a young straight man. Quite frankly, the women on here that are posting to knock down other women, GET OVER IT... don't be jealous just because they make their living looking good... I mean, what's the point in bashing down victoria secret models? Does it make you feel better about yourself when you're rudely mocking the profession of some of the most revered women in the world? Like i said, get over the fact that YOU didn't get to do this... As for the women on this site who are ridiculing men for idolizing these beautiful women, again, stop being jealous! Not all men are so shallow as to expect ONLY this for a women when they get married. I'm not going to lie, it's a nice dream, but dreams are only called dreams because they aren't reality. So if you are a woman who thinks that a man won't love you because you don't look like this, YOU are wrong. YOU Are the ones who are at fault, not the men because YOU are the ones lying to yourselves... In my life I have learned to look past the superficial beauty of women who think they NEED to be beautiful, and instead I look for NATURAL beauty. If I am one man who can look for this, I know there are probably MORE men who DO look for this. So women, stop giving up so easily and stop disrespecting these models and their profession. I would love to go head to head with any stubborn woman who disagrees with me on anything I've said, because I am up for the challenge to prove to you that not all men are looking for carbon copies of the women on these pages.
Thanks for your time,
-Eric
P.S. men on this site... I know what you're doing... go get a real girlfriend... >.>
Omg thank you! A lot of models out there are pretty but I never quite understood why Gisele is popular. She always looked like a male to me and I never considered her pretty. So what if she's skinny and tall ...I'm skinny and tall too and I have hips as well! Her face is just so ...ewww compared to other Victoria Secret girls, I really don't think she has a pretty face. Her cheekbones are aweful and her complexion isn't that hot with those freckles.Thanks for this site...finally someone out there thinks the same! Sometimes fashion just has a strange taste.
The last sentence should read: This might explain long legs being considered feminine.
Men tend to have bigger heads and thicker necks as well as more massive ribcages which creates an impression of shorter legs as a proportion of total height. This might explain short legs being considered feminine.
I noticed something about the posing in the swimsuit photos of Elle, it accentuates her already very masculine shoulder breadth. Why exaggerate this of all things, if not because it's the very thing MacPherson brings to the table as a model - masculine looks.
In every photo (except the paparazi beach) Elle is darker or golden whereas Monica looks pale. Why do the photographers pay for dedicated make-up and lighting personel? Because their subjects wouldn't look sexy enough without a tanned appearance. What impression do pale looking models make "like a deer caught in the headlights" as Kristy put it.
It admits Elle has finer facial features. She's best described as handsome rather than pretty.
Elle MacPherson does not have breast implants and there is no way that Monica girl is as tall as Elle is...look at the picture of her next to the car, no way! Elle's face is much prettier also, and she can actually model without looking like a deer caught in the headlights.
I would have to say that most of the negativity I've see in this page has been from women towards women. Some women have wider ribcages than others. Some have less fat. Some get breast implants. Get over it! There is no definitive "attractive" benchmark and everyone is different. Obviously Heidi Klum must be doing something right, she's still working isn't she?
angry gal:
http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/archives/vol7no2/v7no2_Devlin.pdf
Enjoy your "liberation", hun.
I think the obsession w/ youth is not exlusive to homosexual or bisexual individuals and that it simply depends on the person and not on the sexual orientation. I do believe that homosexual males are influential in the fashion industry but there is no reason for someone to put false stigma on homosexual or bisexual individuals. I think that having thin young looking male models is exactly the same as having thin young looking female ones. HughRistik said ¨The other problem with this ideal is that it might delude some poor straight men into thinking that it is what women actually want¨ just like it has with straight women thinking they need to be thin to be beautiful. By the way HughRustik I think you´re the shortest a male model can be but I´m sure you can I´m 6´2´and I weight 135lbs I´m an aspiring model too but I don´t really know what to do to be a model.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3805117.stm
Sexual selection gives men relatively shorter upper faces for their breadth compared to females http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000710 I have seen some photos of the XYY Syndrome afflicted who had very long upper faces.
Burt Lancaster has a lack of baldness, more importantly his lower lip is too big, how about replacing him with http://toddmecklem.com/Lawrence_Tierney_425.jpg
Lin said "when a seemingly taller man and a shorter woman sit down their height difference is diminished"
Its been diminished by half, if you mean disproportionately - I think women have better posture. Men especialy tall men tend not to sit bolt upright.
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