Sorry to say but I still like Yesica Toscanini better. And your comparison is not relevant because the makeup of Anita Dark is a very different stile form Yesica. They wanted to show different things and if one takes Yesica and makeup her in the same way she will look exactly as feminine as Anita. I mean you have pics of Yesica going to a party and shooting for fashion and Anita shooting for a porn movie!!!
I was with you until you showed the face of Anita Dark compared with Yesica Toscanini. Aside from Rachel Hunter who indeed has a very masculine body and face that I have never found attractive, There is no better example of a masculine "transexual" face than the two shots on the left of Anita Dark. The info you've given though, does indeed have a lot of scientific backing. Back in college I studied human sexuality, and there was a whole section on this very topic. However, finding these women attractive does not mean an individual is in violation of your "exclusive heterosexuality" theory. That is complete nonsense, and it greatly damages the arguments you make on this page.
"And NO Emily I am not hostile towards this site. I am a BIG fan! I have let Erik know that a few times. I have found out that i am feminine and beautiful through this site. I can BET i am much more beautiful than you :) inside and out."
I think you have deep problems if you let a web site have the power to prop up or lower your self-esteem. (Feminine, by the way? Are you a woman?)
I don't need that. I don't need a web site to tell me I am worth something, and I don't spend hours writing boring comments about myself, like I was on a therapist couch, like the trolls here and insecure people do. Talk about issues and insecurity!
I am very good looking. That is why I don't NEED to come here for validation. I don't need a web site to prop up my self-confidence, and I don't need to attack people who disagree with me. I am not weak.
I stand up for the issues I believe in. I am not here to talk about me or to talk about you - other posters. I am here because the topic of the site interests me. That's how it should be.
Unless you people stop trolling and start addressing the topics of the site I do think your comments should be moderated. This sort of thing cannot be allowed to continue, in opinion.
As far as I can tell I am almost the only reader right now who sticks to the topics and who doesn't insult and attacks others. I think that should be taken into account.
And NO Emily I am not hostile towards this site. I am a BIG fan! I have let Erik know that a few times. I have found out that i am feminine and beautiful through this site. I can BET i am much more beautiful than you :) inside and out.
You are one to talk! You are posting pictures of babies to prove your point....referring to what babies should look like or not.
You are calling/generalizing an entire race some words which i don't want to repeat particularly against East Asians. You have not responded to many comments/pictures/arguments made by different people.
Listen missie...I never said anything about Erik's family, or anyone's. I did call you a Bitch (in fun) for which i apologized.
I am going to repeat some things i said. I find beauty in all races, I do agree that race mixing for Nordics means losing their traits BUT do not believe in telling people who they should or should not choose.
If anyone needs moderating its YOU! What have pictures of babies and under 18 year olds (cheerleaders, high school students) have to do with feminine beauty that we are talking about? Take a look at yourself before you blame others.
All in all i feel sorry for you....pity even.
Godis and Petite
You both make really good points and am glad you are here :)
Godis you sound like a real cutie and smart too! You go girl lol
If you get a chance, read even a little of Erik's book on homosexuality...I will be surprised if your not "touched in a negative way" by his extreme point of view.
Godis you sound much like me! I have been told that i have childlike/feminine features. Even girls tell me i have a beautiful face. Funny thing is that I used to look upto models for "inspirations" and compared myself to them. I am 6 feet tall and thought i "have" their body but not the face. I always wanted to get defined cheekbones and jaws of the models But thanks to this website i found out that i don't and my self esteem has risen!
Many kisses your way Erik for making me feel beautiful and feminine :D
Godis i don't think its too "bad" to gain some confidence by going through this website? Also don't leave...you make some really good (and needed) arguments.
In light of all the comments godis and Peter have made recently it is fair to assume that they are hostile to the site, to you and to readers who disagree with them. They are trolling, attacking and insulting people on a regular basis.
They are completely incapable of addressing the topics of discussion without attacking other readers and you personally. They insult you, even bringing up your own mother, and others whose views they disagree with.
Why don't we do the same? Because we rely on the strenght of our arguments. They obviously feel that they can't. They have no arguments. They think they instead can win people over by insulting those who disagree with them. They don't realize that people who troll and attack others personally never won anyone over.
I think the threads ought to be moderated. Unless these people stick to the topics of discussion instead of making their opponents the topic of discussion their comments should be removed.
I think you could perhaps set up rules for posting on a special page here, so that people understand that they have to behave decently, and also understand what is not acceptable behavior. Hostile trolls could ruin a site if they are left totally unchecked. Many normal, nice and decent people who would like to comment here probably decide not to when they see these trolls running amock here.
Erik: You could have least have answered some of my questions. You said that whether or not a man prefers a different female figure than you do has nothing do with their sexuality, but most of the time you you contradict that sentiment. For instance, you say things like "what lifetime-exclusive heterosexual man would be turned on by that flat butt?" and "A lifetime exclusive hetero man would wish she had larger breasts"
Please answer this questions: Say a man is attracted to a woman with small breasts, or a flat butt, or with a masculine face, do you believe that this man is not a lifetime exclusive heterosexual?
"Some women are naturally very thin. Why should they be legislatively deprived of an opportunity to model? A system can be worked out where the burden of proof is on the fashion industry to show that models employed by it are not starving themselves to maintain their jobs. This can be achieved by random physiological testing of fashion models, at the industry’s expense, especially in the neighborhood of Fashion Week. "
To me, those testings sound like something similar to the sports industry self-regulating its players. I just don't believe it would work. Yes, there are some - very few - naturally anorexic-looking women. They are very few, surely, and would also have to be up to the standards in the beauty department.
The truth is that when you see a top athlete today he or she is more than likely on steroids, and the truth is that anorexic models are almost never "naturally" that thin since they have to meet beauty standards as well as the anorexic standard homosexual fashion designers have decided on.
They take drugs to not feel hunger, drugs so they can stay awake, and they abuse their bodies in countless ways so they can meet woman-hating homosexual designers' demands.
When you legislate you cannot take into account the interests of just one or two women in many thousands of other women. If legislation would mean that some woman might not be able to model unless she gains a little weight, so be it.
Protecting thousands of women in the fashion industry, who today abuse their bodies so they can stand a fair chance of getting work, is more important to me. Legislation always primarily takes into account the interest of the vast majority. That's how it works. There will always be a few exceptions who get a raw deal in all types of legislations.
"Some people also push for the silly requirement that the models need to be 16 and up, silly in light of the gay fashion designers’ preferences. Concentrating on models between the ages of 12-16 would afford a better opportunity to come across girls who look more like boys in their early adolescence and are naturally very thin. Whereas an objection to this may be the negative impact it will have on some impressionable girls, the right education – why are high-fashion models typically very thin? – will take care of the problem in most girls."
If there were laws that regulated the industry's use of runway models for showing clothes for adult women - that they cannot be under 18, and that they cannot be under a certain weight - this would force the designers to use more mature and feminine women. Using kids who are androgenous since they are not mature sexually yet would become impossible, at least. I think it would be worth testing this since the industry has shown a total lack of interest in self-regulation in spite of hard criticism.
The right education? I think most teenagers couldn't care less about adults educating them about their teen culture. Adults and parents are hopeless nerds who don't understand anything. Most teens would see it that way. They wouldn't listen.
As long as only anorexic very young girls are used for modeling they will continue to be the norm and the standard that teens admire and try to emulate, I think. Even adult women often see them as rolemodels. How could we expect children to do otherwise when grown women are as impressionable as they are many times?
Your views on self-esteem are an embarrassment to the concept of self-esteem. I do not have low self-esteem, and yes Emily does. Why? Because if you need to defined YOURSELF based on a group's accomplishments rather than your own, even in the area of beauty, this is a sign of low self-esteem. What did Hitler do to the Germans? He fed on their low-self esteem by making them believe that they as a group were superior because of certain qualities and characteristics they owned. Even those that did not measure up to these were consiered "superior" simply because they belong to this group in terms of genetics/etc. Emily feels she needs to identify with a group, why does she not let her beauty be a reflection of strictly herself rather than her Nordic group? People with low-self esteem like to believe themselves superior because they belong to a certain group, even if they don't have those qualities of the group, they believe that if they share ENOUGH qualities they are entitled to all the titles and accomplishments of that one group. Emily may believe that because her overal structure and pigmentation is Nordic that she is entitled to the "attractive" title that she percieves the Nordic group to hold even though in all honesty she may not measure up to the "attractive" title. She just associates herself with those that do and tries to give herself that title by mooching it off her group.
"If this website has made you scrutinize your physical appearance in a more nuanced manner and you fall short of high standards, do not blame the messenger"
I have never mentioned that I fall short of any standards. The ironic thing is that I am very feminine compared to even your "attractive section" women. I believe I mentioned that I used to get angry when people confused me for being younger (15,16,17) than I really am (20). However, I have figured out I have very smooth childike and feminine features. I also have a very porportional hourglass figure, large breasts and long legs. In all honesty, this site was more of a booster of self-confidence than anything, as I have mentioned in my last comment. I have learned to appreciate my feminine attributeds even more. However, I don't base almost any of my self-confidence on my appearance. I never really needed to do so. My self-esteem/confidence is based on my ability to recognize that I am a naturally talented human being who has strong morals, values, and character and is constantly developing in order to become a better person throughout my lifetime. My point about "scrutinizing myself" is that even women that are deemed "attractive" by this website will become paranoid by this website. More importantly, I have gotten into the habit of criticizing my friends which has made me feel as if I have put too much value on this ridiculous concept of beauty. Luckily, I have realized how little value beauty truly has in my life. Beauty at most has helped me attract my boyfriends into my life from first sight and that is it. Beauty has played a small role in my life as I have so much more to offer than a pretty face.
I don't see why you yourself should have low or average self-esteem. You obviously have a good head on your shoulders, you are articulate, and you even have a good sense of humor at times from what I have read. However, I believe that your ideas and values can be sickening.
That is all I am going to say. I honestly don't believe I should waste any more time on this website. I feel I don't need to prove anything, especially on here, because it is not going to make a difference anywhere really.
Hey Erik,
What can i say? you stated "Don’t waste my time with accusations of bias". Why not? after all isn't that good for a scientist? (if you are one). I accuse you because a lot of the things you mentioned in your book are extremely off. Add to that the religious element and i was left wondering...Religion and homosexuality? good choice!
I haven't read your book yet but will be. I have very high self esteem thanks to this website. It made me realize how beautiful i really am! Thank you Erik!
If you really want to "talk" respond to my e-mail. For starters page 31 last paragraph about anal sex. Do you seriously believe most homosexuals don't care about the "stuff". Ever heard of doucher? Why do gay stores sell douchers? I don't wanna get into details here but seriously....
A few Q's
What about altruism and homosexuality?
what about homosexuality in animals? i read somewhere 50% or more bisexuality in Bonobos.
What about increasing anal sex prevalence in Straight porn? which will obviously reflect in real life...
I can keep going...I find it interesting that you wrote the book due to a friend's "challenge"??? When will you write a book with these findings on feminine beauty? Why only restrict it to the website. Ohhh i would love to read that book :)
best seller potential.
In the end Erik i have a Q, I am gay, never been with a woman but i have been attracted to many sometimes sexually. Does that mean i have "narrowly" escaped heterosexuality?
Godis: What I have written on homosexuals has nothing to do with self-esteem issues. I figured out some cool things about homosexuality that people interested in the topic would want to read. What got me interested in the topic was a friend of mine asking me to interpret some of the biological literature that he had come across on homosexuals; he had no background in the biological sciences. Figuring it out was a frustrating job and I saw it as solving a jigsaw puzzle with a twist: before the pieces could be put together one had to find them. Few people back then or even for some time to come could have put it together in the manner I did. That was years ago, and I no longer keep up with the latest on homosexuals. In any case your description of my views on homosexuals bears no resemblance to what I have put down in writing, and it is pointless to be clarifying it here.
Let us be very clear about what low self-esteem entails. As far as looks go, people with lower self-esteem are more likely to base their opinion of their attractiveness on what others think whereas those with higher self-esteem are less likely to be swayed by other people’s opinion. Some people have been accusing Emily of having low self-esteem, but a higher opinion of the physical appearance of oneself or one’s group tends to go with higher self-esteem.
You cannot infer my self-esteem level based on what I have written about women’s looks. When you admire some looks in women but not others and you are not a woman, what inference can be drawn about your self-esteem? Some people think that those with low self-esteem are more likely to talk negatively about others in an attempt to make themselves feel better. The reality is that those with high self-esteem are much more likely to do this, and they do it because those who are different from them are an insult to their existence. So if all the negative things I have written about homosexuals has something to do with self-esteem then it has to be high self-esteem. But then why would I allow you or others to leave comments that are abusive toward me? Shouldn’t these insult my high concept of myself?
My overall self-esteem is anywhere from somewhat below normal to normal. This is the way it is. I don't think this is a problem by itself. My main arguments tend to be empirical, including those on homosexuals, and self-esteem does not enter into the picture. I don’t see you and many others counter my arguments with a similar empirical approach.
If this website has made you scrutinize your physical appearance in a more nuanced manner and you fall short of high standards, do not blame the messenger. These high standards are yours. All I have done is bring you more in touch with your intrinsic orientation.
Petite: Your comment – at 02/15/2009 - 01:49 – is another useless straw man.
Peter: This is not a website for discussing homosexuality except for when it is related to the choice of fashion models, some other high profile models and beauty pageant contestants. I have extensively backed my writings on homosexuality with empirical evidence, the vast majority of it from peer-reviewed journals, and you will find answers to your questions by reading what I have written. Don’t waste my time with accusations of bias. Your behaviors do not alter the reality about the behaviors and impact of homosexuals in general or as a whole.
Emily: Some women are naturally very thin. Why should they be legislatively deprived of an opportunity to model? A system can be worked out where the burden of proof is on the fashion industry to show that models employed by it are not starving themselves to maintain their jobs. This can be achieved by random physiological testing of fashion models, at the industry’s expense, especially in the neighborhood of Fashion Week. Some people also push for the silly requirement that the models need to be 16 and up, silly in light of the gay fashion designers’ preferences. Concentrating on models between the ages of 12-16 would afford a better opportunity to come across girls who look more like boys in their early adolescence and are naturally very thin. Whereas an objection to this may be the negative impact it will have on some impressionable girls, the right education – why are high-fashion models typically very thin? – will take care of the problem in most girls.
Emily no one is convincing you that you should "mix" with someone outside of your race. I believe it would be nice to preserve original races. However, preserving races does not mean that EVERY person of that race or sub-race cannot mix. People should not be forced to do anything. Most people will want to mix and end up mixing, this is only natural. Some won't and that is how the races and subraces may be preserved. Great. There you have it. You have a world fixed with homozygous and heterozygous individuals! Besides some of us are already mixed. I am not 100% Nordic as I have other Caucasian subraces as part of my heritage. And guess what? I am still AS attractive if not more attractive than the majority of the women you posted up. The point here is Emily, you can argue all you want but people will still end up mixing and you cannot force people to do otherwise and it would be wrong to do so. There is a reason there are so many mixed individuals out there in the world already. You and Erik claim that most Nordics will not mix. Well, take them out of their homozygous Nordic countries and expose them to different cultures and types of people and they WILL mix. Some won't.
Emily herself is an intelligent individual, however ignorance usually blinds one and all the critical thinking in the world won't help. Therefore anyone can argue logical points, but Emily still won't "get it."
I completely agree, I know arguing with Emily is not going to go anywhere. I'm not really trying to "prove" anything to her, but I genuinely would like to understand her. I've heard of people who are against interracial marriage/breeding because they believe it is morally wrong in some way (That God does not allow it or something) and those who believe in a "supreme race" ("white people are better, lets eliminate everyone else"), but I have never heard of someone who is against it simply because of aesthetics.
And thank you for all the complements! *blush* I would definitely say that you are very intelligent yourself!
Godis
no don't leave! I mean permenantly anyways :)
The funny thing about Emily is that before if you noticed she was all about how Nordics are more beautiful/standard of beauty etc and now she is playing the race mixing card. Whats next? the blond card? Blonds are better than anyone else in the world and even Nordic burnettes are not good lol
Somehow somewhere this race mixing disastorous for whites and preference for Nordic women sounds very familiar ... *cough* J ...uhm *cough* Richards ...*achoo* = yaba daba doo Erik wow weee weee = Emily *sneeze*....oh my what just happened to me? :D :) :P ;)
got ya!
Emily wrote:"Indians, blacks and Asians cannot get over the fact that the Nordic/Germanic white woman is the standard of beauty"
You sound so desperate to convince us that we should have the same psychological preferences as you do, but you cannot force someone to believe in something they cannot feel. Just get over it and stop insulting people.
Personally, I find naturally tanned brunetes more attractive than plain Nordics. But I don't feel the urge to impose my preferences on others.
The facial structiure of thhese girls (see the link bellow), is much more attractive(in my opinion*), than the Nordic ladies posted above. Also, the guy on the photo is just perfect. http://www.imagebam.com/image/ce81b826836984
I am so glad that someone as intelligent and WISE as you has found this website. Maybe you can knock some sense into Emily. However, I urge you not to spend all your time on this website. Why? Because someone as intelligent and wise as you is greatly needed in society. You cannot teach someone who is not willing to learn. Your time would better be used in another way then wasted on people like Emily. I do believe the effort should be put forth to educate bigots, however sometimes you cannot convince them of their ignorance no matter what.
Emily:
The ironic thing is that the photo you posted of the Nordic baby looks almost exactly like I did when I was a baby! I couldn't believe it at first! Also, the Asian baby is equally as attractive and absolutley adorable!
So everyone on this website Goodbye! I have better things to do than argue with pseudo-scientific crap and ignorance! Thanks!
Call me crazy, but shouldn't women and even young girls just define beauty based off of their own terms?
This site may have all the statistics, testimonials and etc, but this site does not thoroughly and completely define femininity and beauty and it should not. Beauty is like truth, it's relative. According to Western society, I'm ugly. To many African cultures, I'm frickin' hot. So what?
The way I see it, (my opinion here) everyone is beautiful, but in numerous, diverse ways. The fact that someone who is considered outside of the norm of beauty can be considered beautiful just from that. There is no such thing as ugly because chances are someone out there would find that person hotter than Las Vegas weather.
This site should have a disclaimer that states that not all beauty and femininity lies on the outside, the majority of it is in the inside, thus not all beauty and femininity are created equal.
So ladies LOVE yourself and try not to over-analyze yourselves and others. If people don't like the way you look or if they say you act too girly or not enough, give them the bird! Or maybe just tell them that beauty is relative and then give them the bird. Lol! My guys, the same thing can be applied to you too.
Call me crazy, but shouldn't women and even young girls just define beauty based off of their own terms?
This site may have all the statistics, testimonials and etc, but this site does not thoroughly and completely define femininity and beauty and it should not. Beauty is like truth, it's relative. According to Western society, I'm ugly. To many African cultures, I'm frickin' hot. So what?
The way I see it, (my opinion here) everyone is beautiful, but in numerous, diverse ways. The fact that someone who is considered outside of the norm of beauty can be considered beautiful just from that. There is no such thing as ugly because chances are someone out there would find that person hotter than Las Vegas weather.
So to Laura who is very similar to me, we are beautiful, feminine, masculine, dominant and submissive.
This site should have a disclaimer that states that not all beauty and femininity lies on the outside, the majority of it is in the inside, thus not all beauty and femininity are created equal.
So ladies LOVE yourself and try not to over-analyze yourselves and others. If people don't like the way you look or if they say you act too girly or not enough, give them the bird! Or maybe just tell them that beauty is relative and then give them the bird. Lol! My guys, the same thing can be applied to you too.
Call me crazy, but shouldn't women and even young girls just define beauty based off of their own terms?
This site may have all the statistics, testimonials and etc, but this site does not thoroughly and completely define femininity and beauty and it should not. Beauty is like truth, it's relative. According to Western society, I'm ugly. To many African cultures, I'm frickin' hot. So what?
The way I see it, (my opinion here) everyone is beautiful, but in numerous, diverse ways. The fact that someone who is considered outside of the norm of beauty can be considered beautiful just from that. There is no such thing as ugly because chances are someone out there would find that person hotter than Las Vegas weather.
So to Laura who is very similar to me, we are beautiful, feminine, masculine, dominant and submissive.
This site should have a disclaimer that states that not all beauty and femininity lies on the outside, the majority of it is in the inside, thus not all beauty and femininity are created equal.
So ladies LOVE yourself and try not to over-analyze yourselves and others. If people don't like the way you look or if they say you act too girly or not enough, give them the bird! Or maybe just tell them that beauty is relative and then give them the bird. Lol! My guys, the same thing can be applied to you too.
Sorry to say but I still like Yesica Toscanini better. And your comparison is not relevant because the makeup of Anita Dark is a very different stile form Yesica. They wanted to show different things and if one takes Yesica and makeup her in the same way she will look exactly as feminine as Anita. I mean you have pics of Yesica going to a party and shooting for fashion and Anita shooting for a porn movie!!!
I was with you until you showed the face of Anita Dark compared with Yesica Toscanini. Aside from Rachel Hunter who indeed has a very masculine body and face that I have never found attractive, There is no better example of a masculine "transexual" face than the two shots on the left of Anita Dark. The info you've given though, does indeed have a lot of scientific backing. Back in college I studied human sexuality, and there was a whole section on this very topic. However, finding these women attractive does not mean an individual is in violation of your "exclusive heterosexuality" theory. That is complete nonsense, and it greatly damages the arguments you make on this page.
"And NO Emily I am not hostile towards this site. I am a BIG fan! I have let Erik know that a few times. I have found out that i am feminine and beautiful through this site. I can BET i am much more beautiful than you :) inside and out."
I think you have deep problems if you let a web site have the power to prop up or lower your self-esteem. (Feminine, by the way? Are you a woman?)
I don't need that. I don't need a web site to tell me I am worth something, and I don't spend hours writing boring comments about myself, like I was on a therapist couch, like the trolls here and insecure people do. Talk about issues and insecurity!
I am very good looking. That is why I don't NEED to come here for validation. I don't need a web site to prop up my self-confidence, and I don't need to attack people who disagree with me. I am not weak.
I stand up for the issues I believe in. I am not here to talk about me or to talk about you - other posters. I am here because the topic of the site interests me. That's how it should be.
Unless you people stop trolling and start addressing the topics of the site I do think your comments should be moderated. This sort of thing cannot be allowed to continue, in opinion.
As far as I can tell I am almost the only reader right now who sticks to the topics and who doesn't insult and attacks others. I think that should be taken into account.
And NO Emily I am not hostile towards this site. I am a BIG fan! I have let Erik know that a few times. I have found out that i am feminine and beautiful through this site. I can BET i am much more beautiful than you :) inside and out.
The person who talked about me and Godis
You are one to talk! You are posting pictures of babies to prove your point....referring to what babies should look like or not.
You are calling/generalizing an entire race some words which i don't want to repeat particularly against East Asians. You have not responded to many comments/pictures/arguments made by different people.
Listen missie...I never said anything about Erik's family, or anyone's. I did call you a Bitch (in fun) for which i apologized.
I am going to repeat some things i said. I find beauty in all races, I do agree that race mixing for Nordics means losing their traits BUT do not believe in telling people who they should or should not choose.
If anyone needs moderating its YOU! What have pictures of babies and under 18 year olds (cheerleaders, high school students) have to do with feminine beauty that we are talking about? Take a look at yourself before you blame others.
All in all i feel sorry for you....pity even.
Godis and Petite
You both make really good points and am glad you are here :)
Godis you sound like a real cutie and smart too! You go girl lol
If you get a chance, read even a little of Erik's book on homosexuality...I will be surprised if your not "touched in a negative way" by his extreme point of view.
Godis you sound much like me! I have been told that i have childlike/feminine features. Even girls tell me i have a beautiful face. Funny thing is that I used to look upto models for "inspirations" and compared myself to them. I am 6 feet tall and thought i "have" their body but not the face. I always wanted to get defined cheekbones and jaws of the models But thanks to this website i found out that i don't and my self esteem has risen!
Many kisses your way Erik for making me feel beautiful and feminine :D
Godis i don't think its too "bad" to gain some confidence by going through this website? Also don't leave...you make some really good (and needed) arguments.
In light of all the comments godis and Peter have made recently it is fair to assume that they are hostile to the site, to you and to readers who disagree with them. They are trolling, attacking and insulting people on a regular basis.
They are completely incapable of addressing the topics of discussion without attacking other readers and you personally. They insult you, even bringing up your own mother, and others whose views they disagree with.
Why don't we do the same? Because we rely on the strenght of our arguments. They obviously feel that they can't. They have no arguments. They think they instead can win people over by insulting those who disagree with them. They don't realize that people who troll and attack others personally never won anyone over.
I think the threads ought to be moderated. Unless these people stick to the topics of discussion instead of making their opponents the topic of discussion their comments should be removed.
I think you could perhaps set up rules for posting on a special page here, so that people understand that they have to behave decently, and also understand what is not acceptable behavior. Hostile trolls could ruin a site if they are left totally unchecked. Many normal, nice and decent people who would like to comment here probably decide not to when they see these trolls running amock here.
I have to clarify some things on self-esteem but I have to go to work right now so I will later...
Erik: You could have least have answered some of my questions. You said that whether or not a man prefers a different female figure than you do has nothing do with their sexuality, but most of the time you you contradict that sentiment. For instance, you say things like "what lifetime-exclusive heterosexual man would be turned on by that flat butt?" and "A lifetime exclusive hetero man would wish she had larger breasts"
Please answer this questions: Say a man is attracted to a woman with small breasts, or a flat butt, or with a masculine face, do you believe that this man is not a lifetime exclusive heterosexual?
Sorry, I forgot to write my name. The above comment is mine.
"Some women are naturally very thin. Why should they be legislatively deprived of an opportunity to model? A system can be worked out where the burden of proof is on the fashion industry to show that models employed by it are not starving themselves to maintain their jobs. This can be achieved by random physiological testing of fashion models, at the industry’s expense, especially in the neighborhood of Fashion Week. "
To me, those testings sound like something similar to the sports industry self-regulating its players. I just don't believe it would work. Yes, there are some - very few - naturally anorexic-looking women. They are very few, surely, and would also have to be up to the standards in the beauty department.
The truth is that when you see a top athlete today he or she is more than likely on steroids, and the truth is that anorexic models are almost never "naturally" that thin since they have to meet beauty standards as well as the anorexic standard homosexual fashion designers have decided on.
They take drugs to not feel hunger, drugs so they can stay awake, and they abuse their bodies in countless ways so they can meet woman-hating homosexual designers' demands.
When you legislate you cannot take into account the interests of just one or two women in many thousands of other women. If legislation would mean that some woman might not be able to model unless she gains a little weight, so be it.
Protecting thousands of women in the fashion industry, who today abuse their bodies so they can stand a fair chance of getting work, is more important to me. Legislation always primarily takes into account the interest of the vast majority. That's how it works. There will always be a few exceptions who get a raw deal in all types of legislations.
"Some people also push for the silly requirement that the models need to be 16 and up, silly in light of the gay fashion designers’ preferences. Concentrating on models between the ages of 12-16 would afford a better opportunity to come across girls who look more like boys in their early adolescence and are naturally very thin. Whereas an objection to this may be the negative impact it will have on some impressionable girls, the right education – why are high-fashion models typically very thin? – will take care of the problem in most girls."
If there were laws that regulated the industry's use of runway models for showing clothes for adult women - that they cannot be under 18, and that they cannot be under a certain weight - this would force the designers to use more mature and feminine women. Using kids who are androgenous since they are not mature sexually yet would become impossible, at least. I think it would be worth testing this since the industry has shown a total lack of interest in self-regulation in spite of hard criticism.
The right education? I think most teenagers couldn't care less about adults educating them about their teen culture. Adults and parents are hopeless nerds who don't understand anything. Most teens would see it that way. They wouldn't listen.
As long as only anorexic very young girls are used for modeling they will continue to be the norm and the standard that teens admire and try to emulate, I think. Even adult women often see them as rolemodels. How could we expect children to do otherwise when grown women are as impressionable as they are many times?
"I do not have low self-esteem, and yes Emily does"
Speak for yourself - not for me. Also, the readers, and you, are NOT the topic. When will you learn?
Erik,
Your views on self-esteem are an embarrassment to the concept of self-esteem. I do not have low self-esteem, and yes Emily does. Why? Because if you need to defined YOURSELF based on a group's accomplishments rather than your own, even in the area of beauty, this is a sign of low self-esteem. What did Hitler do to the Germans? He fed on their low-self esteem by making them believe that they as a group were superior because of certain qualities and characteristics they owned. Even those that did not measure up to these were consiered "superior" simply because they belong to this group in terms of genetics/etc. Emily feels she needs to identify with a group, why does she not let her beauty be a reflection of strictly herself rather than her Nordic group? People with low-self esteem like to believe themselves superior because they belong to a certain group, even if they don't have those qualities of the group, they believe that if they share ENOUGH qualities they are entitled to all the titles and accomplishments of that one group. Emily may believe that because her overal structure and pigmentation is Nordic that she is entitled to the "attractive" title that she percieves the Nordic group to hold even though in all honesty she may not measure up to the "attractive" title. She just associates herself with those that do and tries to give herself that title by mooching it off her group.
"If this website has made you scrutinize your physical appearance in a more nuanced manner and you fall short of high standards, do not blame the messenger"
I have never mentioned that I fall short of any standards. The ironic thing is that I am very feminine compared to even your "attractive section" women. I believe I mentioned that I used to get angry when people confused me for being younger (15,16,17) than I really am (20). However, I have figured out I have very smooth childike and feminine features. I also have a very porportional hourglass figure, large breasts and long legs. In all honesty, this site was more of a booster of self-confidence than anything, as I have mentioned in my last comment. I have learned to appreciate my feminine attributeds even more. However, I don't base almost any of my self-confidence on my appearance. I never really needed to do so. My self-esteem/confidence is based on my ability to recognize that I am a naturally talented human being who has strong morals, values, and character and is constantly developing in order to become a better person throughout my lifetime. My point about "scrutinizing myself" is that even women that are deemed "attractive" by this website will become paranoid by this website. More importantly, I have gotten into the habit of criticizing my friends which has made me feel as if I have put too much value on this ridiculous concept of beauty. Luckily, I have realized how little value beauty truly has in my life. Beauty at most has helped me attract my boyfriends into my life from first sight and that is it. Beauty has played a small role in my life as I have so much more to offer than a pretty face.
I don't see why you yourself should have low or average self-esteem. You obviously have a good head on your shoulders, you are articulate, and you even have a good sense of humor at times from what I have read. However, I believe that your ideas and values can be sickening.
That is all I am going to say. I honestly don't believe I should waste any more time on this website. I feel I don't need to prove anything, especially on here, because it is not going to make a difference anywhere really.
Hey Erik,
What can i say? you stated "Don’t waste my time with accusations of bias". Why not? after all isn't that good for a scientist? (if you are one). I accuse you because a lot of the things you mentioned in your book are extremely off. Add to that the religious element and i was left wondering...Religion and homosexuality? good choice!
I haven't read your book yet but will be. I have very high self esteem thanks to this website. It made me realize how beautiful i really am! Thank you Erik!
If you really want to "talk" respond to my e-mail. For starters page 31 last paragraph about anal sex. Do you seriously believe most homosexuals don't care about the "stuff". Ever heard of doucher? Why do gay stores sell douchers? I don't wanna get into details here but seriously....
A few Q's
What about altruism and homosexuality?
what about homosexuality in animals? i read somewhere 50% or more bisexuality in Bonobos.
What about increasing anal sex prevalence in Straight porn? which will obviously reflect in real life...
I can keep going...I find it interesting that you wrote the book due to a friend's "challenge"??? When will you write a book with these findings on feminine beauty? Why only restrict it to the website. Ohhh i would love to read that book :)
best seller potential.
In the end Erik i have a Q, I am gay, never been with a woman but i have been attracted to many sometimes sexually. Does that mean i have "narrowly" escaped heterosexuality?
Godis: What I have written on homosexuals has nothing to do with self-esteem issues. I figured out some cool things about homosexuality that people interested in the topic would want to read. What got me interested in the topic was a friend of mine asking me to interpret some of the biological literature that he had come across on homosexuals; he had no background in the biological sciences. Figuring it out was a frustrating job and I saw it as solving a jigsaw puzzle with a twist: before the pieces could be put together one had to find them. Few people back then or even for some time to come could have put it together in the manner I did. That was years ago, and I no longer keep up with the latest on homosexuals. In any case your description of my views on homosexuals bears no resemblance to what I have put down in writing, and it is pointless to be clarifying it here.
Let us be very clear about what low self-esteem entails. As far as looks go, people with lower self-esteem are more likely to base their opinion of their attractiveness on what others think whereas those with higher self-esteem are less likely to be swayed by other people’s opinion. Some people have been accusing Emily of having low self-esteem, but a higher opinion of the physical appearance of oneself or one’s group tends to go with higher self-esteem.
You cannot infer my self-esteem level based on what I have written about women’s looks. When you admire some looks in women but not others and you are not a woman, what inference can be drawn about your self-esteem? Some people think that those with low self-esteem are more likely to talk negatively about others in an attempt to make themselves feel better. The reality is that those with high self-esteem are much more likely to do this, and they do it because those who are different from them are an insult to their existence. So if all the negative things I have written about homosexuals has something to do with self-esteem then it has to be high self-esteem. But then why would I allow you or others to leave comments that are abusive toward me? Shouldn’t these insult my high concept of myself?
My overall self-esteem is anywhere from somewhat below normal to normal. This is the way it is. I don't think this is a problem by itself. My main arguments tend to be empirical, including those on homosexuals, and self-esteem does not enter into the picture. I don’t see you and many others counter my arguments with a similar empirical approach.
If this website has made you scrutinize your physical appearance in a more nuanced manner and you fall short of high standards, do not blame the messenger. These high standards are yours. All I have done is bring you more in touch with your intrinsic orientation.
Petite: Your comment – at 02/15/2009 - 01:49 – is another useless straw man.
Peter: This is not a website for discussing homosexuality except for when it is related to the choice of fashion models, some other high profile models and beauty pageant contestants. I have extensively backed my writings on homosexuality with empirical evidence, the vast majority of it from peer-reviewed journals, and you will find answers to your questions by reading what I have written. Don’t waste my time with accusations of bias. Your behaviors do not alter the reality about the behaviors and impact of homosexuals in general or as a whole.
Emily: Some women are naturally very thin. Why should they be legislatively deprived of an opportunity to model? A system can be worked out where the burden of proof is on the fashion industry to show that models employed by it are not starving themselves to maintain their jobs. This can be achieved by random physiological testing of fashion models, at the industry’s expense, especially in the neighborhood of Fashion Week. Some people also push for the silly requirement that the models need to be 16 and up, silly in light of the gay fashion designers’ preferences. Concentrating on models between the ages of 12-16 would afford a better opportunity to come across girls who look more like boys in their early adolescence and are naturally very thin. Whereas an objection to this may be the negative impact it will have on some impressionable girls, the right education – why are high-fashion models typically very thin? – will take care of the problem in most girls.
And...
Emily no one is convincing you that you should "mix" with someone outside of your race. I believe it would be nice to preserve original races. However, preserving races does not mean that EVERY person of that race or sub-race cannot mix. People should not be forced to do anything. Most people will want to mix and end up mixing, this is only natural. Some won't and that is how the races and subraces may be preserved. Great. There you have it. You have a world fixed with homozygous and heterozygous individuals! Besides some of us are already mixed. I am not 100% Nordic as I have other Caucasian subraces as part of my heritage. And guess what? I am still AS attractive if not more attractive than the majority of the women you posted up. The point here is Emily, you can argue all you want but people will still end up mixing and you cannot force people to do otherwise and it would be wrong to do so. There is a reason there are so many mixed individuals out there in the world already. You and Erik claim that most Nordics will not mix. Well, take them out of their homozygous Nordic countries and expose them to different cultures and types of people and they WILL mix. Some won't.
Emily herself is an intelligent individual, however ignorance usually blinds one and all the critical thinking in the world won't help. Therefore anyone can argue logical points, but Emily still won't "get it."
Godis
I completely agree, I know arguing with Emily is not going to go anywhere. I'm not really trying to "prove" anything to her, but I genuinely would like to understand her. I've heard of people who are against interracial marriage/breeding because they believe it is morally wrong in some way (That God does not allow it or something) and those who believe in a "supreme race" ("white people are better, lets eliminate everyone else"), but I have never heard of someone who is against it simply because of aesthetics.
And thank you for all the complements! *blush* I would definitely say that you are very intelligent yourself!
Godis
no don't leave! I mean permenantly anyways :)
The funny thing about Emily is that before if you noticed she was all about how Nordics are more beautiful/standard of beauty etc and now she is playing the race mixing card. Whats next? the blond card? Blonds are better than anyone else in the world and even Nordic burnettes are not good lol
Somehow somewhere this race mixing disastorous for whites and preference for Nordic women sounds very familiar ... *cough* J ...uhm *cough* Richards ...*achoo* = yaba daba doo Erik wow weee weee = Emily *sneeze*....oh my what just happened to me? :D :) :P ;)
got ya!
Emily wrote:"Indians, blacks and Asians cannot get over the fact that the Nordic/Germanic white woman is the standard of beauty"
You sound so desperate to convince us that we should have the same psychological preferences as you do, but you cannot force someone to believe in something they cannot feel. Just get over it and stop insulting people.
Personally, I find naturally tanned brunetes more attractive than plain Nordics. But I don't feel the urge to impose my preferences on others.
The facial structiure of thhese girls (see the link bellow), is much more attractive(in my opinion*), than the Nordic ladies posted above. Also, the guy on the photo is just perfect.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/ce81b826836984
Peter:
Thank you for the compliments!
Petite:
I am so glad that someone as intelligent and WISE as you has found this website. Maybe you can knock some sense into Emily. However, I urge you not to spend all your time on this website. Why? Because someone as intelligent and wise as you is greatly needed in society. You cannot teach someone who is not willing to learn. Your time would better be used in another way then wasted on people like Emily. I do believe the effort should be put forth to educate bigots, however sometimes you cannot convince them of their ignorance no matter what.
Emily:
The ironic thing is that the photo you posted of the Nordic baby looks almost exactly like I did when I was a baby! I couldn't believe it at first! Also, the Asian baby is equally as attractive and absolutley adorable!
So everyone on this website Goodbye! I have better things to do than argue with pseudo-scientific crap and ignorance! Thanks!
Sorry about the three replies. Wasn't sure that my reply got through. Sorry!
Call me crazy, but shouldn't women and even young girls just define beauty based off of their own terms?
This site may have all the statistics, testimonials and etc, but this site does not thoroughly and completely define femininity and beauty and it should not. Beauty is like truth, it's relative. According to Western society, I'm ugly. To many African cultures, I'm frickin' hot. So what?
The way I see it, (my opinion here) everyone is beautiful, but in numerous, diverse ways. The fact that someone who is considered outside of the norm of beauty can be considered beautiful just from that. There is no such thing as ugly because chances are someone out there would find that person hotter than Las Vegas weather.
This site should have a disclaimer that states that not all beauty and femininity lies on the outside, the majority of it is in the inside, thus not all beauty and femininity are created equal.
So ladies LOVE yourself and try not to over-analyze yourselves and others. If people don't like the way you look or if they say you act too girly or not enough, give them the bird! Or maybe just tell them that beauty is relative and then give them the bird. Lol! My guys, the same thing can be applied to you too.
Call me crazy, but shouldn't women and even young girls just define beauty based off of their own terms?
This site may have all the statistics, testimonials and etc, but this site does not thoroughly and completely define femininity and beauty and it should not. Beauty is like truth, it's relative. According to Western society, I'm ugly. To many African cultures, I'm frickin' hot. So what?
The way I see it, (my opinion here) everyone is beautiful, but in numerous, diverse ways. The fact that someone who is considered outside of the norm of beauty can be considered beautiful just from that. There is no such thing as ugly because chances are someone out there would find that person hotter than Las Vegas weather.
So to Laura who is very similar to me, we are beautiful, feminine, masculine, dominant and submissive.
This site should have a disclaimer that states that not all beauty and femininity lies on the outside, the majority of it is in the inside, thus not all beauty and femininity are created equal.
So ladies LOVE yourself and try not to over-analyze yourselves and others. If people don't like the way you look or if they say you act too girly or not enough, give them the bird! Or maybe just tell them that beauty is relative and then give them the bird. Lol! My guys, the same thing can be applied to you too.
Call me crazy, but shouldn't women and even young girls just define beauty based off of their own terms?
This site may have all the statistics, testimonials and etc, but this site does not thoroughly and completely define femininity and beauty and it should not. Beauty is like truth, it's relative. According to Western society, I'm ugly. To many African cultures, I'm frickin' hot. So what?
The way I see it, (my opinion here) everyone is beautiful, but in numerous, diverse ways. The fact that someone who is considered outside of the norm of beauty can be considered beautiful just from that. There is no such thing as ugly because chances are someone out there would find that person hotter than Las Vegas weather.
So to Laura who is very similar to me, we are beautiful, feminine, masculine, dominant and submissive.
This site should have a disclaimer that states that not all beauty and femininity lies on the outside, the majority of it is in the inside, thus not all beauty and femininity are created equal.
So ladies LOVE yourself and try not to over-analyze yourselves and others. If people don't like the way you look or if they say you act too girly or not enough, give them the bird! Or maybe just tell them that beauty is relative and then give them the bird. Lol! My guys, the same thing can be applied to you too.
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