" There is no need to have awful teeth, even without much dental care"
Did you seriously type that? WOW! Just WOW! How ignorant of a person can you be to seriously believe those words? People
I'm not ignorant. Insulting me won't make your argument.
"in these countries don't even have money to buy proper food such as fruits and vegetables that would keep their teeth "
First of all I don't believe that is necessarily true, always. Many E. European countries are better off now thanks to all the money being pumped into them from the EU. Secondly, as I said, there are many poor people in other parts of the world who seem to have better teeth so I don't think malnutrition is the entire answer. Also, the photos I saw of these people showed healthy-looking and well-nourished persons. They were not downtrodden, starving or overly thin people in any way. Also, the English often have bad teeth, for example. I think genetics play a part, as always.
Snip.
"This is when she was three or four. I love helping children, especially the children in Eastern Europe and I am really apalled that you think so low of Eastern Europeans."
Think low of them? Saying that they have bad teeth is thinking low of them? That is stating a fact. Also, this is beyond the topic of this site. The topic is femininity and beauty. There are always reasons why someone is not beautiful or attractive. Those reasons may be sad and terrible, at times, and sometimes it's just genetic. I could say that I pity them, and I do. Especially the children. Does that in any way make their teeth any better? THAT is what the site is about. The politics of Eastern Europe is for another site to discuss.
" There is no need to have awful teeth, even without much dental care"
Did you seriously type that? WOW! Just WOW! How ignorant of a person can you be to seriously believe those words? People in these countries don't even have money to buy proper food such as fruits and vegetables that would keep their teeth clean. They live in countries with poor laws and a poor economy. They don't have as many regulations. You can bet that the food they have there is of much lower quality than the food you have over wherever you live. Dental care is extremely important to a beautiful smile. Don't argue that you see poor people with good teeth. Eastern Europeans do not live in a climate or area surrounded by anything that can improve their teeth. I seriously will pray that you will be forced to travel to other countries in the world and live as these people do for only a month. I think your perspective would change instantly. I honestly wonder how you would handle the great discomfort and agony these people deal with on a day to day basis. I seriously pray for you.
I go to Eastern Europe every year with my church group. You will see children on the streets, orphans that dig holes to try to stay warm at night. You will see mothers and fathers who work very hard to bring food home to their families. You will see children skipping school to go to work. There is no middle class. You are either rich or on the poorer side. You distract yourself once in a while if you can afford a movie or a night at the club with your girlfriends, but this is very rare. There are thieves and gypsies on the streets, all trying to survive. The corruption within the governments is revolting, and the people suffer for this. Many age quickly and get deformities resulting to a hard strenouos and stressful life. Seriously, its one of the saddest places I have ever been to. There are some good things that come out of Eastern Europe. For example this little girl is known in Moldova for being the youngest to ever have her own album. She knew English and Moldovan by the age of two.
This is when she was three or four. I love helping children, especially the children in Eastern Europe and I am really apalled that you think so low of Eastern Europeans.
There is no evidence of Marilyn being anything but Nordic. No Eastern European- or Hispanic names appear in her family, and the photos I have seen of her and of her family are very much in line with Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian descent.
There is nothing slavic or latin about Marilyn's looks, nor does anything appear in what is written about her that would suggest anything other than Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian descent. All Nordics are not blond, by the way. There are those who have light brown or brown hair, especially in the UK and Irland.
Gladys Pearl Baker's mother was named Della Mae Hogan, born in Missouri. HER parents were Tilford and Jennie Nance Hogan.
Gladys's father was named Otis Elmer Monroe.
Marilyn's father is most probably Martin Edward Mortensen, a Norwegian.
if you agree with eriks site than why do you disagree that the woman looks more eastern european than british while erik clearly states she is more likely british?
you know what people like about russian "dyevs"? They look interesting and exotic while still remaining attractive. Most women, even attractive, are extremely plain. In many cases this is what makes them attractive, their averageness. However, certain women, like russian "dyevs" I guess seem to maintain pivotal points related to attractiveness, while looking exotic or interesting at the same time. Its kind of like an ice cream. Everyone likes ice cream and is attracted to it, but put some hot fudge and a cherry on top and you get a more interesting ice cream.
Natalie looks far more eastern than she does British.
Emily,
Your first set of comparisons were representative samples of 'normal' people from both groups; the latter sets were obviously heavily skewed towards demonstrating nordic beauty, to the point of belabouring the obvious, really.
Personally, I've never been able to understand what the fuss over Russian "dyevs" on the part of western expats was all about. But as was mentioned, I too think most people have at least some degree of preference for features peculiar to their own group, regardless of how those are valued by others.
Beauty standards must also be at least somewhat subjective and malleable, else it's difficult to explain how often preferences deviate from those propounded by this site (which I agree with).
After doing some research, I come to the conclusion that Marylin Monroe is not 100% Nordic. Her mother was American and most likely mixed. To me she is probably mixed with Italian or Polish or something, or maybe both. I do support the theory that mixing increases attractiveness. I think if you mix a Nordic with another type of European you get a very attractive person, like Marylin. I think Marilyn looks better with her natural dark eyes, however, I think the blonde hair def. increases her attractiveness. It's so strange she didn't get blonde hair since her father is Norweigan? But I guess her mother was too dark or had totally dominant genes or something.
Elizabeth Taylor was English. I find it interesting how many beautiful people come out of England even though the people there are usually regarded as plain or just ugly. I guess maybe those are just myths? Or maybe its just the majority of English people that are ugly, but then you get a drop dead gorgeous one like Elizabeth Taylor!
Also, it is stated on Marilyn's driver license that her eyes are brown. It could be a typo, but there is much speculation that her eyes originally were brown and that they were altered.
I think Marilyn has a face too round for a Nordic type. Her eyes, nose, and lips are also not Nordic. I see Elizabeth Taylor more as the Nordic type, minus the blonde hair, although not all Nordics have blonde hair anyways.
wow. Anita has almost an identical body to mine. its so strange. except im a little on the thinner side compared to her, but our breasts, shoulders, arms(mine r a bit thinner) are almost identical! Thats crazy!
You don't deserve a reply. However, this IS a site about beauty and femininity, and since teeth and smile are very much a part of the overall impression a woman makes it is something that should be mentioned, since it often seriously affects their appearance. If they have such terrible dental care that's not my fault. Hiding the fact that their teeth are really bad sometimes would not truthful. Also, I hardly ever go to the dentist since my teeth are perfect and strong. I don't even have one filling.
There is no need to have awful teeth, even without much dental care, if they are naturally sane and healthy. I have seen many photos of very poor people from around the world who have brilliant smiles, so it seems to be a problem that goes beyond dental care. They just have bad teeth and need lots of dental work that they don't get, apparently. Let's hope they improve their dental care, then. That would be best for them, and good for beauty.
Can you please site a source that claims Northern European women have an hourglass figure more often than any other ethnicity? I would just like to see it please, because honestly I see few hourglasses in the first place. I have an hourglass figure, and I am not Northern European. I find it odd that so few women have a true hourglass figure, and the majority of these women are supposedly Northern European. I am Polish, Italian, and German. I doubt that my German ancestry was the sole contributor to my hourglass figure, especially because my family was from a Southern part of Germany close to France and no one from my German side looks remotley Northern European. I think that I notice that British women have hourglass figures most often. Actresses like Kate Winslet are curvy and beautiful! However, countries up more North, I really don't see them having hourglass figures that often at all! I mean I see more Northern European's having an hourglass figure than African Americans or Asians, but not other European women. Also, I took a belly dancing class not too long ago and I noticed that many of the middle eastern women in it were hourglass figures while the european women seemed less curvy? These middle eastern women were in good shape and not at all fat. The only un-feminine part of their body I noticed were their calves and ankles, which were often too thin to be feminine.Please show me the study because I am interested to see it. Thanks!
Ok, so I don't get why Marilyn Monroe is a historic sex symbol if she is not highly feminine? I mean what is your opinion on why she was and still desired by so many men? Is it the fake blonde hair? I heard she was an hourglass and maybe that is why? However, everytime I see a photo of her it is not of her body but of her face. Everyone seems to like her face? What makes her face so attractive if she is not super feminine? Also, who is more feminine: Marilyn Monroe or young Elizabeth Taylor?
I mean seriously, who the hell says crap like that about other "races?" Eastern Europeans don't smile because they have bad teeth? They don't even have proper dental care, how do you expect them to have nice teeth? Seriously, whoever you are you need to learn your lesson. Someone ought to knock your teeth out and then I'd like to see YOU smile in pictures!
And who takes this Erik noob seriously? I haven't seen him published anywhere else. His work seems like pseudo-scientific bullcrap. The few studies he posts up are crap! Do you know how much crap circulates in science every year? Most of it is crap, especially stuff like what Erik posts. Beauty is this and that and she needs to look like that, noob leave me alone I know what I like to jack off too and it isn't this shit! If I wanna see this I can just drive into the countries and look at the goats or cows lol
OK Eric, I stand corrected, you do have a few more publications (2 or 3 in total) than I had found.
But, really, 'big deal'. Do not misunderstand me, there may be some merit in some of your views. But having one or two publications on the subject doesn't exactly make you an expert in the field. If you want your ideas to be taken seriously you have some more work to do, primarily allowing your data to be subject to the rigors of the normal peer-review process. Here is what you should do if you are serious about convincing the skeptics :
-Collect some data.
-Analyze you data in an appropriate way (to test the hypotheses you are interested in addressing)
-Write up your findings and submit them to a peer-reviewed journal (lots of interesting things on this site that have not been published as far as I can determine).
-If you data are analyzed correctly, and valid conclusions that follow from the analysis are made, your study will surely be accepted for publication, 'politically incorrect' (whatever that means) or not.
It looks to me like you have made a good start, with a small number of publications. But you have not demonstrated you expertise yet, by going through the normal academic channels. Becoming an 'expert' on a scientific subject like this does not happen quickly or easily. By attempting to bypass the usual route with this website you may actually be making it harder for the scientific community to take you seriously. I would suggest leaving the website until you have established a larger body of work. Just advice.
PS: While impact factors are not a direct indication of the quality of the work, this is largely how the work is judged. There are certainly journals in fields outside of aesthetics that would be suitable (psychology journals) that have larger impact factors than you have achieved so far. Why not cast a larger net to find your audience?
I also didn't mean to suggest that Eastern European women cannot be beautiful. They can and they are. However I do believe that the core beauty ideal has its origin not in the Slavic type but in the Nordic type.
I think beauty is subjective but also universal. If the beauty ideal is so subjective and not universal women of other ethnicities wouldn't so often try to look like an ideal removed from their own. Nordic women usually don't try to look less Nordic. If anything they too strive to look as Nordic as possible, for example making their hair blonder, or wearing blue or green contacts if they have brown eyes, etc.
They usually don't try to look like another ethnicity by permanently somehow making the skin darker (a tan is not the same thing since white women want the option of shifting from the milky/pearly complexion to the golden hue in the summer), dying their hair black, using dark-brown contacts, making their noses broader or hooked, the eyes Asian, and so forth. The only thing I can think of is making their lips fuller if they are too thin, but fuller lips is something seen among Nordics too, so that wouldn't be like trying to alter your ethnic appearance.
I think there is such a thing as being almost universally attractive, and that there is a common ideal that people generally are looking to emulate. Women bleach their skin, hair, operate their eyelids, make their noses less broad or hooked, operate their chins, the nose ridge, and the foreheads if they are small and slanting. These things wouldn't be done if their men had responded negatively. Women don't undergo operations in order to become less attractive to the opposite sex.
The alterations made seem to go in one direction only - towards looking more Nordic or white - never in the opposite direction. You could argue that these women are living in Western countries and therefore want to adapt to Western ideals but this does not hold water since women in Asia and India, for example, also very much have these operations performed and want the same things.
It has to be said that it's only natural to be drawn to your own people and your own women. Most men do, I think. It's only normal to be attracted to what is familiar and to the things you are used to seeing since you were a child. There are beautiful and feminine women of all different kinds in every country on earth. Also, if everyone was drawn to the same type everyone would compete for the same women/ men and the other ones would not procreate.
This doesn't mean that there is not a beauty ideal that transcends many boundaries. It has been that way for a long time so it cannot be argued that this is just a recent phenomenon. If there is a contradiction there I can't explain why that is or how it works. It just seems that many are spontaneously responding to the same things.
What? said:
"Because men don't have breasts, so they will NEVER understand just how important are breasts for women, both physically and emotionally."
-
However, men DO lose their hair, which is considered MUCH more emotionally damaging than small breasts to a woman. First, the typical man who loses his hair in male-pattern baldness HAD hair to start with, then slowly watches as he loses it. Women with small breasts have always had small breasts, so there's no traumatic mutation over time.
When men lose their hair, it is said to be the equivalent in emotional trauma to that of a women losing a bra-size every year or two. . . until they're gone.
At what age do your hormones start telling your body to put more fat in the stomach area rather than the hips and chest? I heard that women lose their shape when they age because of this. So if you were an hourglass, you will now be straighter, rather than curvy. My mom is almost 50. She still has a very obvious hourglass figure. She doesn't excercise or anything, just a bit. She takes dance with my dad. She does put weight on her stomach more often but she still maintains that hourglass shape. Does that mean I will most likely maintain my shape as well, or is she just not old enough for the effect to have taken place?
DS: 103lbs in my opinion is not enough weight to determine your body shape unless you are very short, like around 5'1. This is because hormones influence body shape a lot, and your hormones tell your body in which areas to store the fat. If you are a true rectangle, when you gain a bit of weight your hormones will tell your body to distribute the fat evenly. Hourglass for example have more fat distributed everywhere else besides their waists. Pear shapes have fat distributed on their lower body more than their upper body. Apple shapes get more fat distributed on their upper body rather than lower body.
" There is no need to have awful teeth, even without much dental care"
Did you seriously type that? WOW! Just WOW! How ignorant of a person can you be to seriously believe those words? People
I'm not ignorant. Insulting me won't make your argument.
"in these countries don't even have money to buy proper food such as fruits and vegetables that would keep their teeth "
First of all I don't believe that is necessarily true, always. Many E. European countries are better off now thanks to all the money being pumped into them from the EU. Secondly, as I said, there are many poor people in other parts of the world who seem to have better teeth so I don't think malnutrition is the entire answer. Also, the photos I saw of these people showed healthy-looking and well-nourished persons. They were not downtrodden, starving or overly thin people in any way. Also, the English often have bad teeth, for example. I think genetics play a part, as always.
Snip.
"This is when she was three or four. I love helping children, especially the children in Eastern Europe and I am really apalled that you think so low of Eastern Europeans."
Think low of them? Saying that they have bad teeth is thinking low of them? That is stating a fact. Also, this is beyond the topic of this site. The topic is femininity and beauty. There are always reasons why someone is not beautiful or attractive. Those reasons may be sad and terrible, at times, and sometimes it's just genetic. I could say that I pity them, and I do. Especially the children. Does that in any way make their teeth any better? THAT is what the site is about. The politics of Eastern Europe is for another site to discuss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNLXjXxj3J8
here is the clip of the little girl. Maybe one day she will stumble about this site and realize that she can't be pretty because she is not "Nordic"?
Emily,
" There is no need to have awful teeth, even without much dental care"
Did you seriously type that? WOW! Just WOW! How ignorant of a person can you be to seriously believe those words? People in these countries don't even have money to buy proper food such as fruits and vegetables that would keep their teeth clean. They live in countries with poor laws and a poor economy. They don't have as many regulations. You can bet that the food they have there is of much lower quality than the food you have over wherever you live. Dental care is extremely important to a beautiful smile. Don't argue that you see poor people with good teeth. Eastern Europeans do not live in a climate or area surrounded by anything that can improve their teeth. I seriously will pray that you will be forced to travel to other countries in the world and live as these people do for only a month. I think your perspective would change instantly. I honestly wonder how you would handle the great discomfort and agony these people deal with on a day to day basis. I seriously pray for you.
I go to Eastern Europe every year with my church group. You will see children on the streets, orphans that dig holes to try to stay warm at night. You will see mothers and fathers who work very hard to bring food home to their families. You will see children skipping school to go to work. There is no middle class. You are either rich or on the poorer side. You distract yourself once in a while if you can afford a movie or a night at the club with your girlfriends, but this is very rare. There are thieves and gypsies on the streets, all trying to survive. The corruption within the governments is revolting, and the people suffer for this. Many age quickly and get deformities resulting to a hard strenouos and stressful life. Seriously, its one of the saddest places I have ever been to. There are some good things that come out of Eastern Europe. For example this little girl is known in Moldova for being the youngest to ever have her own album. She knew English and Moldovan by the age of two.
This is when she was three or four. I love helping children, especially the children in Eastern Europe and I am really apalled that you think so low of Eastern Europeans.
There is no evidence of Marilyn being anything but Nordic. No Eastern European- or Hispanic names appear in her family, and the photos I have seen of her and of her family are very much in line with Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian descent.
There is nothing slavic or latin about Marilyn's looks, nor does anything appear in what is written about her that would suggest anything other than Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian descent. All Nordics are not blond, by the way. There are those who have light brown or brown hair, especially in the UK and Irland.
Gladys Pearl Baker's mother was named Della Mae Hogan, born in Missouri. HER parents were Tilford and Jennie Nance Hogan.
Gladys's father was named Otis Elmer Monroe.
Marilyn's father is most probably Martin Edward Mortensen, a Norwegian.
argentum:
if you agree with eriks site than why do you disagree that the woman looks more eastern european than british while erik clearly states she is more likely british?
you know what people like about russian "dyevs"? They look interesting and exotic while still remaining attractive. Most women, even attractive, are extremely plain. In many cases this is what makes them attractive, their averageness. However, certain women, like russian "dyevs" I guess seem to maintain pivotal points related to attractiveness, while looking exotic or interesting at the same time. Its kind of like an ice cream. Everyone likes ice cream and is attracted to it, but put some hot fudge and a cherry on top and you get a more interesting ice cream.
Natalie looks far more eastern than she does British.
Emily,
Your first set of comparisons were representative samples of 'normal' people from both groups; the latter sets were obviously heavily skewed towards demonstrating nordic beauty, to the point of belabouring the obvious, really.
Personally, I've never been able to understand what the fuss over Russian "dyevs" on the part of western expats was all about. But as was mentioned, I too think most people have at least some degree of preference for features peculiar to their own group, regardless of how those are valued by others.
Beauty standards must also be at least somewhat subjective and malleable, else it's difficult to explain how often preferences deviate from those propounded by this site (which I agree with).
After doing some research, I come to the conclusion that Marylin Monroe is not 100% Nordic. Her mother was American and most likely mixed. To me she is probably mixed with Italian or Polish or something, or maybe both. I do support the theory that mixing increases attractiveness. I think if you mix a Nordic with another type of European you get a very attractive person, like Marylin. I think Marilyn looks better with her natural dark eyes, however, I think the blonde hair def. increases her attractiveness. It's so strange she didn't get blonde hair since her father is Norweigan? But I guess her mother was too dark or had totally dominant genes or something.
Elizabeth Taylor was English. I find it interesting how many beautiful people come out of England even though the people there are usually regarded as plain or just ugly. I guess maybe those are just myths? Or maybe its just the majority of English people that are ugly, but then you get a drop dead gorgeous one like Elizabeth Taylor!
Also, it is stated on Marilyn's driver license that her eyes are brown. It could be a typo, but there is much speculation that her eyes originally were brown and that they were altered.
Also: Marilyn is not a natural blonde.
Really?
I think Marilyn has a face too round for a Nordic type. Her eyes, nose, and lips are also not Nordic. I see Elizabeth Taylor more as the Nordic type, minus the blonde hair, although not all Nordics have blonde hair anyways.
my waist goes in a little more than hers as well, but i suppose its because of her body position that makes it look larger.
wow. Anita has almost an identical body to mine. its so strange. except im a little on the thinner side compared to her, but our breasts, shoulders, arms(mine r a bit thinner) are almost identical! Thats crazy!
You don't deserve a reply. However, this IS a site about beauty and femininity, and since teeth and smile are very much a part of the overall impression a woman makes it is something that should be mentioned, since it often seriously affects their appearance. If they have such terrible dental care that's not my fault. Hiding the fact that their teeth are really bad sometimes would not truthful. Also, I hardly ever go to the dentist since my teeth are perfect and strong. I don't even have one filling.
There is no need to have awful teeth, even without much dental care, if they are naturally sane and healthy. I have seen many photos of very poor people from around the world who have brilliant smiles, so it seems to be a problem that goes beyond dental care. They just have bad teeth and need lots of dental work that they don't get, apparently. Let's hope they improve their dental care, then. That would be best for them, and good for beauty.
Let's show young Marilyn too, in that case. Norma Jeane Mortensen had a Norwegian father and is an example of a Nordic type of woman. So is Elizabeth.
As for the hourglass figure I live in Sweden and can assure you that there are many women here who have a very feminine figure.
Anita Ekberg, Swedish actress;
Can you please site a source that claims Northern European women have an hourglass figure more often than any other ethnicity? I would just like to see it please, because honestly I see few hourglasses in the first place. I have an hourglass figure, and I am not Northern European. I find it odd that so few women have a true hourglass figure, and the majority of these women are supposedly Northern European. I am Polish, Italian, and German. I doubt that my German ancestry was the sole contributor to my hourglass figure, especially because my family was from a Southern part of Germany close to France and no one from my German side looks remotley Northern European. I think that I notice that British women have hourglass figures most often. Actresses like Kate Winslet are curvy and beautiful! However, countries up more North, I really don't see them having hourglass figures that often at all! I mean I see more Northern European's having an hourglass figure than African Americans or Asians, but not other European women. Also, I took a belly dancing class not too long ago and I noticed that many of the middle eastern women in it were hourglass figures while the european women seemed less curvy? These middle eastern women were in good shape and not at all fat. The only un-feminine part of their body I noticed were their calves and ankles, which were often too thin to be feminine.Please show me the study because I am interested to see it. Thanks!
Ok, so I don't get why Marilyn Monroe is a historic sex symbol if she is not highly feminine? I mean what is your opinion on why she was and still desired by so many men? Is it the fake blonde hair? I heard she was an hourglass and maybe that is why? However, everytime I see a photo of her it is not of her body but of her face. Everyone seems to like her face? What makes her face so attractive if she is not super feminine? Also, who is more feminine: Marilyn Monroe or young Elizabeth Taylor?
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc224/feetys/ACTRESS/Elizabeth.jpg
facewise?
I mean seriously, who the hell says crap like that about other "races?" Eastern Europeans don't smile because they have bad teeth? They don't even have proper dental care, how do you expect them to have nice teeth? Seriously, whoever you are you need to learn your lesson. Someone ought to knock your teeth out and then I'd like to see YOU smile in pictures!
And who takes this Erik noob seriously? I haven't seen him published anywhere else. His work seems like pseudo-scientific bullcrap. The few studies he posts up are crap! Do you know how much crap circulates in science every year? Most of it is crap, especially stuff like what Erik posts. Beauty is this and that and she needs to look like that, noob leave me alone I know what I like to jack off too and it isn't this shit! If I wanna see this I can just drive into the countries and look at the goats or cows lol
I hate people that are full of themselves GAWD!
lol Emily
WTF?!?
someone needs to pull their head out of their ass!
OK Eric, I stand corrected, you do have a few more publications (2 or 3 in total) than I had found.
But, really, 'big deal'. Do not misunderstand me, there may be some merit in some of your views. But having one or two publications on the subject doesn't exactly make you an expert in the field. If you want your ideas to be taken seriously you have some more work to do, primarily allowing your data to be subject to the rigors of the normal peer-review process. Here is what you should do if you are serious about convincing the skeptics :
-Collect some data.
-Analyze you data in an appropriate way (to test the hypotheses you are interested in addressing)
-Write up your findings and submit them to a peer-reviewed journal (lots of interesting things on this site that have not been published as far as I can determine).
-If you data are analyzed correctly, and valid conclusions that follow from the analysis are made, your study will surely be accepted for publication, 'politically incorrect' (whatever that means) or not.
It looks to me like you have made a good start, with a small number of publications. But you have not demonstrated you expertise yet, by going through the normal academic channels. Becoming an 'expert' on a scientific subject like this does not happen quickly or easily. By attempting to bypass the usual route with this website you may actually be making it harder for the scientific community to take you seriously. I would suggest leaving the website until you have established a larger body of work. Just advice.
PS: While impact factors are not a direct indication of the quality of the work, this is largely how the work is judged. There are certainly journals in fields outside of aesthetics that would be suitable (psychology journals) that have larger impact factors than you have achieved so far. Why not cast a larger net to find your audience?
I also didn't mean to suggest that Eastern European women cannot be beautiful. They can and they are. However I do believe that the core beauty ideal has its origin not in the Slavic type but in the Nordic type.
I think beauty is subjective but also universal. If the beauty ideal is so subjective and not universal women of other ethnicities wouldn't so often try to look like an ideal removed from their own. Nordic women usually don't try to look less Nordic. If anything they too strive to look as Nordic as possible, for example making their hair blonder, or wearing blue or green contacts if they have brown eyes, etc.
They usually don't try to look like another ethnicity by permanently somehow making the skin darker (a tan is not the same thing since white women want the option of shifting from the milky/pearly complexion to the golden hue in the summer), dying their hair black, using dark-brown contacts, making their noses broader or hooked, the eyes Asian, and so forth. The only thing I can think of is making their lips fuller if they are too thin, but fuller lips is something seen among Nordics too, so that wouldn't be like trying to alter your ethnic appearance.
I think there is such a thing as being almost universally attractive, and that there is a common ideal that people generally are looking to emulate. Women bleach their skin, hair, operate their eyelids, make their noses less broad or hooked, operate their chins, the nose ridge, and the foreheads if they are small and slanting. These things wouldn't be done if their men had responded negatively. Women don't undergo operations in order to become less attractive to the opposite sex.
The alterations made seem to go in one direction only - towards looking more Nordic or white - never in the opposite direction. You could argue that these women are living in Western countries and therefore want to adapt to Western ideals but this does not hold water since women in Asia and India, for example, also very much have these operations performed and want the same things.
It has to be said that it's only natural to be drawn to your own people and your own women. Most men do, I think. It's only normal to be attracted to what is familiar and to the things you are used to seeing since you were a child. There are beautiful and feminine women of all different kinds in every country on earth. Also, if everyone was drawn to the same type everyone would compete for the same women/ men and the other ones would not procreate.
This doesn't mean that there is not a beauty ideal that transcends many boundaries. It has been that way for a long time so it cannot be argued that this is just a recent phenomenon. If there is a contradiction there I can't explain why that is or how it works. It just seems that many are spontaneously responding to the same things.
What? said:
"Because men don't have breasts, so they will NEVER understand just how important are breasts for women, both physically and emotionally."
-
However, men DO lose their hair, which is considered MUCH more emotionally damaging than small breasts to a woman. First, the typical man who loses his hair in male-pattern baldness HAD hair to start with, then slowly watches as he loses it. Women with small breasts have always had small breasts, so there's no traumatic mutation over time.
When men lose their hair, it is said to be the equivalent in emotional trauma to that of a women losing a bra-size every year or two. . . until they're gone.
THIS, women will never understand.
Erik,
At what age do your hormones start telling your body to put more fat in the stomach area rather than the hips and chest? I heard that women lose their shape when they age because of this. So if you were an hourglass, you will now be straighter, rather than curvy. My mom is almost 50. She still has a very obvious hourglass figure. She doesn't excercise or anything, just a bit. She takes dance with my dad. She does put weight on her stomach more often but she still maintains that hourglass shape. Does that mean I will most likely maintain my shape as well, or is she just not old enough for the effect to have taken place?
DS: 103lbs in my opinion is not enough weight to determine your body shape unless you are very short, like around 5'1. This is because hormones influence body shape a lot, and your hormones tell your body in which areas to store the fat. If you are a true rectangle, when you gain a bit of weight your hormones will tell your body to distribute the fat evenly. Hourglass for example have more fat distributed everywhere else besides their waists. Pear shapes have fat distributed on their lower body more than their upper body. Apple shapes get more fat distributed on their upper body rather than lower body.
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