Zonneschijn: White women in the Middle East generally look similar to white women in Southern Europe. I don’t see how you can say one group is better than the other. Anecdotal examples won’t help. Systematic evidence is needed. You gave reasons such as freckles, “unsofted skin,” paleness and hairiness. Time to consider some clines (variation over a broad geographic region) in the Euro-Mediterranean region. The freckling problem becomes more severe when one goes up north and especially northwest, but some level of freckling likely does not affect more than half of Northern Europeans, and severe freckling is uncommon. The skin is finer among Northern Europeans and there is less body hair among them. Whereas most people would agree that less freckling, finer skin and less body hair among women is more attractive, skin color preference varies, and the paleness of Northern Europeans does not count against them in an objective sense. So you have not provided arguments to support your contention.
The Kashmiri girls you posted pictures of look like women from some tribes in the Middle East. You will find some who look like them in Southern Europe, but their face shapes aren’t “very much like European.”
The Indian actress doesn’t look bad, but your pictures are overexposed (the photographer/photo editor used too much light). Find pictures of her where normal lighting is used.
Erik: It's a kind of strange? I know european have the most well face's propostion than the other race? but many of their features' detail also not nice, such as freckle and unsofted skin, too pale, hairy etc. but the white women in arab countries seem gorgeous and prettier than the white in europe. all people whom visited there said the same arab women are beauty like goddess.
perhape u wanna look at some picture? someone took the trib girls from the mountian of kashmir. I find they look very much like european.
and this Indian actress, what do you think about her erik? is she pretty?
Kami: Nothing here suggests that women should fit a certain ideal of beauty. The discussion is about the models that appear in a specific publication and what kind of looks would best suit the general preferences of the publication’s target audience.
Chris: The argument isn’t that SI should use nude models. Artistic photos of feminine and attractive bikini-clad women would not serve as masturbatory material. The argument is also not dependent on universal criteria for beauty. Basing the selections on majority preferences is reasonable.
Successful male models are not necessarily effeminate. Male models tend to have normal to masculine faces though many have thin physiques. A general preference for androgyny has not been documented in controlled laboratory studies examining people’s aesthetic tastes.
I did not mention an “evil homosexual conspiracy.” The homosexual designers are doing what pleases them and they get away with it because they sell desirable items (designer merchandize) in the absence of a competing fashion industry not being dominated by them. It is patent nonsense that the masculine looks reflect observations that masculinized women sold more products.
TJ: The mild censorship makes the images more suitable for a wider audience. And, I haven’t censored them all. In Corinna’s picture, the nipples could barely be seen and hence there was no need to censor them, and in my estimation there was no need to censor the nipples of Rachel Hunter because most people wouldn’t be aroused by her appearance.
take the orange dots off thier nipples dude,we all know what they look like,we've all seen them.they are nothing to be ashamed of,or embarrased of.youre not fooling any one.except yourself.its like janet jacksons NIPPLEGATE all over again!OH MY GOD!NOT A NIPPLE!HOLY SHIT!THE WORLD'S GONNA END!!!!
Debra: Patriarchy usually refers to heteropatriarchy since male homosexuals are regarded as victims of patriarchy and hence are not among men who oppress. For any notable homosexual in history, there are many more notable heterosexuals, and I don’t believe your list is very accurate. To the best of my knowledge, Alexander the Great and Leonardo DaVinci were bisexual. The male population of Sparta wasn’t mostly homosexual. Spartan male elite tolerated pederasty, more so the notion of boy love than the physical act, but the pederasts were typically married to women.
To The person who posted the pictures of the Arab women –
Why are you using a different name in just about very comment you post? You need to stick to a single name.
You have posted similar pictures elsewhere within this site, and there is a problem with your argument. If you wanted to argue that Arab women look better than white women, don’t use pictures of white women who happen to be “Arab” just because they were born in the Middle East or else your argument boils down to “some white women look better than other white women,” which does not need to be stated. European tribes have historically dispersed themselves widely and in some cases been forcibly dispersed, and their remnants can be found in places around the world. I once came across a site posting pictures of attractive Turkish women, and the interesting thing was they were all white though you have posted some pictures of non-white Arabs.
Whipped honey: I never saw any comment left by you on this page.
Manhands: There is a problem with estrogen-mimicking pollutants; they have presumably increased the number of effeminate human males. I don’t know about women becoming more masculine over time. People have become more obese, women with excess body fat tend to be more masculine, and body fat reserves are a site for extra-gonadal testosterone/estrogen synthesis. So increasing obesity in women may be related to a more masculine appearance.
Whether women working to be self-sufficient end up with a stable increase in testosterone production, I don’t know.
You should not give up on finding the man of your dreams. Fine features and good looks are a plus, and a pleasing personality/good nature compensates for deficits in looks. Post your profile at various dating sites if necessary and be honest. You will get favorable responses.
Debra: The nature of this site requires a discussion of correlates of physical appearance such as proportions. Sometimes it is also necessary to address correlates of physical appearance such as fertility and fecundity. This does not mean that this is how I see women. There are many scenarios where women’s physical appearance is irrelevant, and I couldn’t care less how they look.
"The male domination of the fashion business is not explained by patriarchy or else you would see the industry dominated by heterosexual men, not homosexual men".
Erik, are you suggesting that homosexual men would come in under matriarchy? Here are some noted :homosexuals from history
Alexander the Great
*Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
Socrates
*Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
Hadrian
*Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
Richard the Lionhearted
*English King, 12th c.
Saladin
*Sultan of Egypt and Syria
Desiderius Erasmus
*Dutch Monk, Philosopher
Francis Bacon
*English statesman, author
Frederick the Great
*King of Prussia
Lord Byron
*English poet, 18th c.
Walt Whitman
*U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
Oscar Wilde
*Irish author, 19th c.
Marcel Proust
*French author, 20th c.
Colette
*French author, 20th c.
Gertrude Stein
*U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
Alice B. Toklas
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Federico Garcia Lorca
*Spanish author, 20th c.
Cole Porter
*U.S. composer, 20th c.
Virginia Woolf
*English author, 20th c.
Leonard Bernstein
*U.S. composer, 20th c.
Pope Julius III
*1550-1555
T.E. Lawrence
*English soldier, author, 20th c.
Jean Cocteau
*French writer, director, 20th c.
Charles Laughton
*English actor, 20th c.
Marguerite Yourcenar
*Belgian author, 20th c.
Tennessee Williams
*U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
James Baldwin
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Andy Warhol
*U.S. artist, 20th c.
Michelangelo
*Italian artist, 15th c.
Leonardo Da Vinci
*Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
Christopher Marlowe
*Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
Herman Melville
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Horatio Alger, Jr.
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Tchaikovsky
*Russian composer, 19th c.
Willa Cather
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Amy Lowell
*U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
E.M. Forster
*English author, 20th c.
John M. Keynes
*English economist, 20th c.
Ludwig Wittgenstein
*Australian mathematician, 20th c.
Bessie Smith
*U.S. singer, 20th c.
Noel Coward
*English playwright, 20th c.
And you can also include the male population of Sparta.
Monica can't hold a candle or a lighter next to Elle. omg she isn't nearly as attractive as her. Sorry Monica while you are a nice looking girl you can't compare to the body no way no how.
More and more men do not look like women or vice versa. This assumption is obviously based on the appearance of celebrities and famous people in the media industry over the past century which is just as inaccurate as someone in another 50-100 years looking at today's famous people to get an idea of the general appearance of the earth's population at large. If you actually looked at photos of people in the general population over the last 150 years, or drawings or anthropological data going back before the advent of image capturing you would see that women were no more feminine appearing in general or men any more masculine looking than now.
Many of the playmates above do sport a more masculinised appearance but this term is inaccurate. It is not as if they have taken steroids, they would appear as such whether Hugh Hefner fancied them or not.
You talk about women the way a farmer talks about cows. Fecundity, fertility, proportions. All slightly different versions of the same human being. When a woman talks about a man she usually uses far more adjectives as regards his personality than his appearance believe it or not. Its almost embarrassing to think that this is the preoccupation of the heterosexual man.
Christina does indeed bear an uncanny resemblance to John Travolta.
Your site state feminine beauty? so I wish the women you posted above would be above average attactive? they are ugly but they are just normal looking girls, charize theron is fine but not that beautifull, but I don't like the one in the left of the first role, she appears to has alot of freakles, red carrot hair, perhape she really has feminine details on her face but only look at her skin I find it's stop me to consider further that she is one of beautifull.
The two women in the third role are also look very ordinary to me. especially the first one. if she has dark hair and asian skin I'd miss understood she is far east asian girl.her face looks almost like one of my half chinese friend, quite like deborah uger, and the last one of the third role has horse teeths.
I will give you the pictures of very very beautifull arab girls, never seen any women that beauty as them.
I came across this page while trying to research the reason why I, a fine-featured, good looking woman, seem to attract feminized men, lesbians, and closet homosexuals. Always thought it might have to do with my bone structure, which I've always blamed on the rampant patriarchal alcholism in my family. Many generations of women who've had to be self- sufficient leave me with nice big hips, but with enormous hands and rib cage, flat bottom, etc. By modern standards, I am a catch.
However, I know better.
This site is interesting, and I am happy, finally, to hear a public statement supporting views which I have felt were true for so long. Obviously, it's sad to have to admit that although I do look like many of the beauty contestants on these pages, there is a real problem when our women look masculine and it's considered sexy.
I'd like to see you explore more of the reasons why. Yes, the gay male fashion editors have something to do with why this trend is palatable, but I think it's a widespread problem which is misperceived... More and more women actually look like MEN and more and more men look like women.
This is true in my locale, and while I've wondered about the water quality, plant and meat hormones, etc... I think it may have more to do with male desertion. When a man ceases to care for his lady, that lady probably compensates for the benefit of her family with increased testosterone production, or at least in some way becomes more male.
I will probably never find the man of my dreams... mainly because I'm interested in intelligent, heterosexual men.
'You can never be too rich or too thin'. A quote from the duchess of Windsor who was 6ft under long before Kate Moss came on the scene.
Fashion models have always been thin because thin has always been in. Either the gay effect reaches back into the mists of time or women have held this physique in high regard long before the fashion houses. Sorry to bust your bubble guys, but it has little to do with you. Most women would chose a fashion model physique over a centrefold if they had to choose. The same way that men obviously pay little attention to the kind of buff physique that a women would admire.
Debra: I do not dispute that in many non-Western societies, overweight is held in high regard, whereas in the West it is held in low regard, but this has nothing do why high-fashion models are typically very thin. Most Westerners don’t like the typical thinness of high-fashion models. It isn’t the attainability issue either. Overall thinness can be achieved by caloric restriction, but what behavioral changes would lead to a feminine pattern of fat distribution? A thin look isn’t the most difficult to achieve. Feminine beauty (with a healthy body weight) is the most difficult to achieve look. So why isn’t this look common among high-fashion models?
Debra: The pictures speak for themselves. The article touches on the majority’s preferences. You can observe for yourself how many go from straight to hook nose and vice versa. On the other hand, note also the issue of ethnic looks. Sometimes people lose their ethnic sense if their nose ends up too Westernized, and are not too happy about it. So it isn’t being argued that Western/Northern European norms are better, period.
Debra: Most 13-year-old girls are readily distinguished from age-matched boys when it comes to the face. I should post some data on this sometime. It has been documented that the roots of male and female face shape differences are prenatal, and from age 3 onward, the developmental trajectory is significantly different. If you were mistaken for a boy when you were 13, too bad you didn’t come across the attention of a modeling scout or you could have made some decent money as a model.
I have repeatedly explained why I posted her pictures. By no means am I suggesting anything along the lines that she should be shorter and curvier. Like you said, she was 13 at the time the article was posted.
Abby is far from being ugly. Again, the masculine element explains why she got her modeling job, but it does not make her ugly. She has balanced features and nice skin.
Heterosexual men are using modeling agencies as sex farms? Given the looks of these girls, just how heterosexual do you think they are? Don’t think of a homosexual-heterosexual dichotomy. What about bisexuals? I will address this issue at some point.
"She said, "I spent one night talking to Kate Moss and she said the most amazing things about bodies. I didn't think I was going to like her, but she said, 'Do you know what I hate, Beth? When people tell my big girlfriends, 'You have a beautiful face.' That's a really radical concept."
A radical concept? Beth Ditto is not the sharpest tool in the music box. Obviously she had planned on hating Kate Moss because she is a skinny model. This would equate with Kate Moss expecting to hate Beth Ditto because she is an obese singer.
There is truth in 8D's statement about extra weight being exalted in poorer, hungrier societies. Slimness in exalted in wealthier societies, it seems to suggest an ability to resist temptation.
Why do models need to be physically attractive to heterosexual men? Do they have an avid interest in the latest collection of Hermes or Prada? The obscene wealth generated by this industry means that those who fork out will not hand over their cash to see extras from an M&S catalogue. They want to see fantasy, something unattainable. That is what drives the consumer society, that vague feeling that everything is just within reach if you spend a few more Euros, or lose a few more pounds. This is humanity, not homosexuality.
I'm not clear what point you're trying to make with the cut and paste article. I also know that you dislike entering the philosophical realm Erik but what is the perfect nose? Is there a standard somewhere from which you compare? Like the perfect kilogram weight kept in France?
People find flaws only in contrast. If their existed only one nose in the world then it would neither be malformed or perfect. That said it is
an interesting phenomenon from an anthropological viewpoint.
It saddens me to see the Korean girl bring the head of the mannequin to the surgeons. It is almost aesthetic fascism. A proud Prussian nose, as possessed by some of the subjects above, could easily be considered perfect or the norm depending on the society the owner inhabits. Whereas a button nose, or a straight nose undesirable. Although straight is always best as far as you're concerned Erik, eh?
She's a 13 year old girl. I was often mistaken for a boy when I was that age and I am not a fashion model. Most young girls could pass for boys and vice versa. Unless they happen to be the one in every class who gets their hormone delivery early. In England in the 15th and 16th century, women were not allowed to work as actresses on the stage. Womens roles were therefore played by adolescent boys. Men and women are not 2 seperate species, we're different sides of the same coin.
The girls face is undeniably pretty and I hope you are not suggesting that she, at 13, should be shorter with a shapelier figure for you to consider her pretty. That would be slightly disturbing.
The biggest scandal facing the fashion industry today is the use of the modelling agencies as 'sex farms' by heterosexual men. This is not my quote. Numerous documentaries and investigations have been exploring this seedy side of the business. The girls have little to fear from 'old queens'.
Erik, perhaps poem was a slight overestimation. I was not intending to blame anyone for their creation, but if I was then the creator would be the most appropriate target. Haiku may not rhyme but at least it is brief.
Katherine Hepburn was by no means an outlier, all studio actresses of the early part of this century were very slim. Slim enough for Marilyn Monroe to be considered voluptuous and she was a UK size 10. There may of course be credence to the influence of the sexual orientation of the designer on the choice of model, and you are by no means the first to suggest this, but it is stretching it to make it out to be some gay conspiracy to turn women into adolescent males. I would be more concerned with the heterosexual males influence on the porn industry. This is undoubtedly what has created the bleached hair, plumped lips and silicone chested phenomenon of recent years. Also the sexualisation of young women and girls. It outrages me more to see a t-shirt with 'hot stuff' written across the front in the children's section of the local department store than to see a skinny girl parading around in bizarre clothes on Tv.
As for your comment on the other thread of homosexuals and bisexuals being a 'breed apart' when it comes to the realm of child abuse and molestation then you are living in a corn bread fantasy land. It may be comforting to think that it is that simple to profile a potential threat to a child but it is not.
There are far greater injustices facing women in the world today. In the 3rd world and in countries with oppressive political or religious
regimes. It is patronizing to propose a boycott of the fashion industry in order to protect womens self esteem. A better reason would be to fight the abuse of the those who work in their factories churning out $500 bags for a dollar a day.
The vast majority of people appreciate the natural beauty of both sexes. Thats why I was born, and you, and probably anyone else reading
these threads.
Zonneschijn: White women in the Middle East generally look similar to white women in Southern Europe. I don’t see how you can say one group is better than the other. Anecdotal examples won’t help. Systematic evidence is needed. You gave reasons such as freckles, “unsofted skin,” paleness and hairiness. Time to consider some clines (variation over a broad geographic region) in the Euro-Mediterranean region. The freckling problem becomes more severe when one goes up north and especially northwest, but some level of freckling likely does not affect more than half of Northern Europeans, and severe freckling is uncommon. The skin is finer among Northern Europeans and there is less body hair among them. Whereas most people would agree that less freckling, finer skin and less body hair among women is more attractive, skin color preference varies, and the paleness of Northern Europeans does not count against them in an objective sense. So you have not provided arguments to support your contention.
The Kashmiri girls you posted pictures of look like women from some tribes in the Middle East. You will find some who look like them in Southern Europe, but their face shapes aren’t “very much like European.”
The Indian actress doesn’t look bad, but your pictures are overexposed (the photographer/photo editor used too much light). Find pictures of her where normal lighting is used.
Erik: It's a kind of strange? I know european have the most well face's propostion than the other race? but many of their features' detail also not nice, such as freckle and unsofted skin, too pale, hairy etc. but the white women in arab countries seem gorgeous and prettier than the white in europe. all people whom visited there said the same arab women are beauty like goddess.
perhape u wanna look at some picture? someone took the trib girls from the mountian of kashmir. I find they look very much like european.
and this Indian actress, what do you think about her erik? is she pretty?
Kami: Nothing here suggests that women should fit a certain ideal of beauty. The discussion is about the models that appear in a specific publication and what kind of looks would best suit the general preferences of the publication’s target audience.
Chris: The argument isn’t that SI should use nude models. Artistic photos of feminine and attractive bikini-clad women would not serve as masturbatory material. The argument is also not dependent on universal criteria for beauty. Basing the selections on majority preferences is reasonable.
Successful male models are not necessarily effeminate. Male models tend to have normal to masculine faces though many have thin physiques. A general preference for androgyny has not been documented in controlled laboratory studies examining people’s aesthetic tastes.
I did not mention an “evil homosexual conspiracy.” The homosexual designers are doing what pleases them and they get away with it because they sell desirable items (designer merchandize) in the absence of a competing fashion industry not being dominated by them. It is patent nonsense that the masculine looks reflect observations that masculinized women sold more products.
TJ: The mild censorship makes the images more suitable for a wider audience. And, I haven’t censored them all. In Corinna’s picture, the nipples could barely be seen and hence there was no need to censor them, and in my estimation there was no need to censor the nipples of Rachel Hunter because most people wouldn’t be aroused by her appearance.
take the orange dots off thier nipples dude,we all know what they look like,we've all seen them.they are nothing to be ashamed of,or embarrased of.youre not fooling any one.except yourself.its like janet jacksons NIPPLEGATE all over again!OH MY GOD!NOT A NIPPLE!HOLY SHIT!THE WORLD'S GONNA END!!!!
Debra: Patriarchy usually refers to heteropatriarchy since male homosexuals are regarded as victims of patriarchy and hence are not among men who oppress. For any notable homosexual in history, there are many more notable heterosexuals, and I don’t believe your list is very accurate. To the best of my knowledge, Alexander the Great and Leonardo DaVinci were bisexual. The male population of Sparta wasn’t mostly homosexual. Spartan male elite tolerated pederasty, more so the notion of boy love than the physical act, but the pederasts were typically married to women.
To The person who posted the pictures of the Arab women –
Why are you using a different name in just about very comment you post? You need to stick to a single name.
You have posted similar pictures elsewhere within this site, and there is a problem with your argument. If you wanted to argue that Arab women look better than white women, don’t use pictures of white women who happen to be “Arab” just because they were born in the Middle East or else your argument boils down to “some white women look better than other white women,” which does not need to be stated. European tribes have historically dispersed themselves widely and in some cases been forcibly dispersed, and their remnants can be found in places around the world. I once came across a site posting pictures of attractive Turkish women, and the interesting thing was they were all white though you have posted some pictures of non-white Arabs.
Whipped honey: I never saw any comment left by you on this page.
Manhands: There is a problem with estrogen-mimicking pollutants; they have presumably increased the number of effeminate human males. I don’t know about women becoming more masculine over time. People have become more obese, women with excess body fat tend to be more masculine, and body fat reserves are a site for extra-gonadal testosterone/estrogen synthesis. So increasing obesity in women may be related to a more masculine appearance.
Whether women working to be self-sufficient end up with a stable increase in testosterone production, I don’t know.
You should not give up on finding the man of your dreams. Fine features and good looks are a plus, and a pleasing personality/good nature compensates for deficits in looks. Post your profile at various dating sites if necessary and be honest. You will get favorable responses.
Debra: The nature of this site requires a discussion of correlates of physical appearance such as proportions. Sometimes it is also necessary to address correlates of physical appearance such as fertility and fecundity. This does not mean that this is how I see women. There are many scenarios where women’s physical appearance is irrelevant, and I couldn’t care less how they look.
Debra: You have ignored the literature that I have cited, and it shows that women generally do not differ from men in what they consider desirable in women’s looks. Fashion models’ looks have changed over time, and this is related to variation in the strength of the gay influence. High-fashion models haven’t been as thin on average in the past as in recent years.
"The male domination of the fashion business is not explained by patriarchy or else you would see the industry dominated by heterosexual men, not homosexual men".
Erik, are you suggesting that homosexual men would come in under matriarchy? Here are some noted :homosexuals from history
Alexander the Great
*Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
Socrates
*Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
Hadrian
*Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
Richard the Lionhearted
*English King, 12th c.
Saladin
*Sultan of Egypt and Syria
Desiderius Erasmus
*Dutch Monk, Philosopher
Francis Bacon
*English statesman, author
Frederick the Great
*King of Prussia
Lord Byron
*English poet, 18th c.
Walt Whitman
*U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
Oscar Wilde
*Irish author, 19th c.
Marcel Proust
*French author, 20th c.
Colette
*French author, 20th c.
Gertrude Stein
*U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
Alice B. Toklas
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Federico Garcia Lorca
*Spanish author, 20th c.
Cole Porter
*U.S. composer, 20th c.
Virginia Woolf
*English author, 20th c.
Leonard Bernstein
*U.S. composer, 20th c.
Pope Julius III
*1550-1555
T.E. Lawrence
*English soldier, author, 20th c.
Jean Cocteau
*French writer, director, 20th c.
Charles Laughton
*English actor, 20th c.
Marguerite Yourcenar
*Belgian author, 20th c.
Tennessee Williams
*U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
James Baldwin
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Andy Warhol
*U.S. artist, 20th c.
Michelangelo
*Italian artist, 15th c.
Leonardo Da Vinci
*Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
Christopher Marlowe
*Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
Herman Melville
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Horatio Alger, Jr.
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Tchaikovsky
*Russian composer, 19th c.
Willa Cather
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Amy Lowell
*U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
E.M. Forster
*English author, 20th c.
John M. Keynes
*English economist, 20th c.
Ludwig Wittgenstein
*Australian mathematician, 20th c.
Bessie Smith
*U.S. singer, 20th c.
Noel Coward
*English playwright, 20th c.
And you can also include the male population of Sparta.
Monica can't hold a candle or a lighter next to Elle. omg she isn't nearly as attractive as her. Sorry Monica while you are a nice looking girl you can't compare to the body no way no how.
More and more men do not look like women or vice versa. This assumption is obviously based on the appearance of celebrities and famous people in the media industry over the past century which is just as inaccurate as someone in another 50-100 years looking at today's famous people to get an idea of the general appearance of the earth's population at large. If you actually looked at photos of people in the general population over the last 150 years, or drawings or anthropological data going back before the advent of image capturing you would see that women were no more feminine appearing in general or men any more masculine looking than now.
Many of the playmates above do sport a more masculinised appearance but this term is inaccurate. It is not as if they have taken steroids, they would appear as such whether Hugh Hefner fancied them or not.
You talk about women the way a farmer talks about cows. Fecundity, fertility, proportions. All slightly different versions of the same human being. When a woman talks about a man she usually uses far more adjectives as regards his personality than his appearance believe it or not. Its almost embarrassing to think that this is the preoccupation of the heterosexual man.
Christina does indeed bear an uncanny resemblance to John Travolta.
You chock I know? because they are beautifull beyond believe
Your site state feminine beauty? so I wish the women you posted above would be above average attactive? they are ugly but they are just normal looking girls, charize theron is fine but not that beautifull, but I don't like the one in the left of the first role, she appears to has alot of freakles, red carrot hair, perhape she really has feminine details on her face but only look at her skin I find it's stop me to consider further that she is one of beautifull.
The two women in the third role are also look very ordinary to me. especially the first one. if she has dark hair and asian skin I'd miss understood she is far east asian girl.her face looks almost like one of my half chinese friend, quite like deborah uger, and the last one of the third role has horse teeths.
I will give you the pictures of very very beautifull arab girls, never seen any women that beauty as them.
I came across this page while trying to research the reason why I, a fine-featured, good looking woman, seem to attract feminized men, lesbians, and closet homosexuals. Always thought it might have to do with my bone structure, which I've always blamed on the rampant patriarchal alcholism in my family. Many generations of women who've had to be self- sufficient leave me with nice big hips, but with enormous hands and rib cage, flat bottom, etc. By modern standards, I am a catch.
However, I know better.
This site is interesting, and I am happy, finally, to hear a public statement supporting views which I have felt were true for so long. Obviously, it's sad to have to admit that although I do look like many of the beauty contestants on these pages, there is a real problem when our women look masculine and it's considered sexy.
I'd like to see you explore more of the reasons why. Yes, the gay male fashion editors have something to do with why this trend is palatable, but I think it's a widespread problem which is misperceived... More and more women actually look like MEN and more and more men look like women.
This is true in my locale, and while I've wondered about the water quality, plant and meat hormones, etc... I think it may have more to do with male desertion. When a man ceases to care for his lady, that lady probably compensates for the benefit of her family with increased testosterone production, or at least in some way becomes more male.
I will probably never find the man of my dreams... mainly because I'm interested in intelligent, heterosexual men.
'You can never be too rich or too thin'. A quote from the duchess of Windsor who was 6ft under long before Kate Moss came on the scene.
Fashion models have always been thin because thin has always been in. Either the gay effect reaches back into the mists of time or women have held this physique in high regard long before the fashion houses. Sorry to bust your bubble guys, but it has little to do with you. Most women would chose a fashion model physique over a centrefold if they had to choose. The same way that men obviously pay little attention to the kind of buff physique that a women would admire.
Debra: I forgot to add that what appeals to most men also appeals to most women as far as women’s looks go. So it isn’t that fashion models have to appeal to heterosexual men.
Debra: I do not dispute that in many non-Western societies, overweight is held in high regard, whereas in the West it is held in low regard, but this has nothing do why high-fashion models are typically very thin. Most Westerners don’t like the typical thinness of high-fashion models. It isn’t the attainability issue either. Overall thinness can be achieved by caloric restriction, but what behavioral changes would lead to a feminine pattern of fat distribution? A thin look isn’t the most difficult to achieve. Feminine beauty (with a healthy body weight) is the most difficult to achieve look. So why isn’t this look common among high-fashion models?
Debra: The pictures speak for themselves. The article touches on the majority’s preferences. You can observe for yourself how many go from straight to hook nose and vice versa. On the other hand, note also the issue of ethnic looks. Sometimes people lose their ethnic sense if their nose ends up too Westernized, and are not too happy about it. So it isn’t being argued that Western/Northern European norms are better, period.
Debra: Most 13-year-old girls are readily distinguished from age-matched boys when it comes to the face. I should post some data on this sometime. It has been documented that the roots of male and female face shape differences are prenatal, and from age 3 onward, the developmental trajectory is significantly different. If you were mistaken for a boy when you were 13, too bad you didn’t come across the attention of a modeling scout or you could have made some decent money as a model.
I have repeatedly explained why I posted her pictures. By no means am I suggesting anything along the lines that she should be shorter and curvier. Like you said, she was 13 at the time the article was posted.
Abby is far from being ugly. Again, the masculine element explains why she got her modeling job, but it does not make her ugly. She has balanced features and nice skin.
Heterosexual men are using modeling agencies as sex farms? Given the looks of these girls, just how heterosexual do you think they are? Don’t think of a homosexual-heterosexual dichotomy. What about bisexuals? I will address this issue at some point.
"She said, "I spent one night talking to Kate Moss and she said the most amazing things about bodies. I didn't think I was going to like her, but she said, 'Do you know what I hate, Beth? When people tell my big girlfriends, 'You have a beautiful face.' That's a really radical concept."
A radical concept? Beth Ditto is not the sharpest tool in the music box. Obviously she had planned on hating Kate Moss because she is a skinny model. This would equate with Kate Moss expecting to hate Beth Ditto because she is an obese singer.
There is truth in 8D's statement about extra weight being exalted in poorer, hungrier societies. Slimness in exalted in wealthier societies, it seems to suggest an ability to resist temptation.
Why do models need to be physically attractive to heterosexual men? Do they have an avid interest in the latest collection of Hermes or Prada? The obscene wealth generated by this industry means that those who fork out will not hand over their cash to see extras from an M&S catalogue. They want to see fantasy, something unattainable. That is what drives the consumer society, that vague feeling that everything is just within reach if you spend a few more Euros, or lose a few more pounds. This is humanity, not homosexuality.
I'm not clear what point you're trying to make with the cut and paste article. I also know that you dislike entering the philosophical realm Erik but what is the perfect nose? Is there a standard somewhere from which you compare? Like the perfect kilogram weight kept in France?
People find flaws only in contrast. If their existed only one nose in the world then it would neither be malformed or perfect. That said it is
an interesting phenomenon from an anthropological viewpoint.
It saddens me to see the Korean girl bring the head of the mannequin to the surgeons. It is almost aesthetic fascism. A proud Prussian nose, as possessed by some of the subjects above, could easily be considered perfect or the norm depending on the society the owner inhabits. Whereas a button nose, or a straight nose undesirable. Although straight is always best as far as you're concerned Erik, eh?
She's a 13 year old girl. I was often mistaken for a boy when I was that age and I am not a fashion model. Most young girls could pass for boys and vice versa. Unless they happen to be the one in every class who gets their hormone delivery early. In England in the 15th and 16th century, women were not allowed to work as actresses on the stage. Womens roles were therefore played by adolescent boys. Men and women are not 2 seperate species, we're different sides of the same coin.
The girls face is undeniably pretty and I hope you are not suggesting that she, at 13, should be shorter with a shapelier figure for you to consider her pretty. That would be slightly disturbing.
The biggest scandal facing the fashion industry today is the use of the modelling agencies as 'sex farms' by heterosexual men. This is not my quote. Numerous documentaries and investigations have been exploring this seedy side of the business. The girls have little to fear from 'old queens'.
Erik, perhaps poem was a slight overestimation. I was not intending to blame anyone for their creation, but if I was then the creator would be the most appropriate target. Haiku may not rhyme but at least it is brief.
Katherine Hepburn was by no means an outlier, all studio actresses of the early part of this century were very slim. Slim enough for Marilyn Monroe to be considered voluptuous and she was a UK size 10. There may of course be credence to the influence of the sexual orientation of the designer on the choice of model, and you are by no means the first to suggest this, but it is stretching it to make it out to be some gay conspiracy to turn women into adolescent males. I would be more concerned with the heterosexual males influence on the porn industry. This is undoubtedly what has created the bleached hair, plumped lips and silicone chested phenomenon of recent years. Also the sexualisation of young women and girls. It outrages me more to see a t-shirt with 'hot stuff' written across the front in the children's section of the local department store than to see a skinny girl parading around in bizarre clothes on Tv.
As for your comment on the other thread of homosexuals and bisexuals being a 'breed apart' when it comes to the realm of child abuse and molestation then you are living in a corn bread fantasy land. It may be comforting to think that it is that simple to profile a potential threat to a child but it is not.
There are far greater injustices facing women in the world today. In the 3rd world and in countries with oppressive political or religious
regimes. It is patronizing to propose a boycott of the fashion industry in order to protect womens self esteem. A better reason would be to fight the abuse of the those who work in their factories churning out $500 bags for a dollar a day.
The vast majority of people appreciate the natural beauty of both sexes. Thats why I was born, and you, and probably anyone else reading
these threads.
Ali and Betsy :
Shut up
I'm the reincarnation of Marchin'-Lootin'-Killin' in my OWN UNIQUE WAY
You can't see it cause ur bigoted, prejudiced n stuff
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