"She looks Slavic/ Eastern European because she IS Slavic. She is ethnically not Swedish. Very simple. That's like posting pics of Zlatan Ibrahimovic, telling everyone he is ethnically Swedish. Give me a break. lol It takes a little more than dying your hair blonde, you know, Godis. ;)"
You don't know if she's slavic or not. There's much general physical similarity amongst european ethnic groups, so it's not hard to come across a swede who doesn't look "swedish".
"It tells me immigration is not often a good thing."
To the point where you'd bar other whites soley on the basis of looks?
What about the other unattractive swedes posted here so far? Why did they pop up amongst the swedish superhumans?
"Since Cecilia, in the next post, which I don't see a point in addressing, what does it tell you that women like this can pop up in the valhalla of human beauty like Sweden?"
It tells me immigration is not often a good thing.
"Whats funny is that Emily thinks a fellow Swede looks Russian."
She looks Slavic/ Eastern European because she IS Slavic. She is ethnically not Swedish. Very simple. That's like posting pics of Zlatan Ibrahimovic, telling everyone he is ethnically Swedish. Give me a break. lol It takes a little more than dying your hair blonde, you know, Godis. ;)
Guys, there is no need to attack any race just because some Nazy lunatics on here are trying to impose their insane point of view!
As a matter of fact, I happened to be physically attracted to my own kind, which by the way perfectly fits the type of people Emily and her think-alikes are worshipping on here, exept for the yellow(so-called blond) hair and the cold coloured eyes. Mine are the same colour as the lion's eyes, which is fiery. BUT, that does not mean that I deny the beauty of other people and their right to enjoy life fully! Emily and her think-alikes are ultra conservative and ignorant individuals.
If I was a Nordic or an African, I too would definitely go for an opposite type. That is nature's way of constant creativity which brings variety to the world. We are really lucky to have so much choice!
"It's also funny how Emily and Cecilia will trash German women too. haha No one is as good as the Swedes are they?"
Yeah, my ancestry is primarily german too. I'm an attractive white male, but that kind of talk doesn't really bother me personally.
"Whats funny is that Emily thinks a fellow Swede looks Russian. She just doesn't understand the reason many Scandinavians look that way is because they too, just like Russians do, have a non-Nordic element to their features because they are not 100% Nordic! I doubt you will find any population that is pure. Even the supposed purest of the pure have Asiatic admixture! Haha 10% Non-Nordic to be exact. That's kind of large considering their supposed "pureness"."
Er, the "purest" "nordics" would probably be the germans. The finns and baltics are ones with admixture around that. And yes, there has been substantial mixture, back and forth, across europe, between ethnicities, for millenia.
"You will find less Germans with what seems to be a type of epicanthal folds, or that round face you so often actually DO see among SCANDINAVIANS!"
I don't think this matters that much, since every general facial shape is prone to extremities. Like I've said, the small, narrow jaws and cheekbones coupled with a narrow face, seen more commonly amongst europeans, particularly scandinavians, is more prone to being overtly narrow, long, tall, whatever- the archtypical "horseface" look. Some prominent examples being Sarah Jessica Parker, Ann Coulter, and Claudia Schiffer without makeup:
Oh, and Sandra Oh, who's korean. Yes, I know she's east asian and their faces are less prone to such structures on average, but she fits the "horse face" mold so perfectly. Her face looks like a japanese noh mask brought to life.
"I've bin to Germany many times and you know, even though we're both germanic, we DO NOT LOOK exactly the same. There are small differances in the nordic countries also(in Finland there are bigger differances of course since they are a baltic people to some extent), but that takes a person coming from here to see.
Attack? Some germans are really beautiful and I like the people, but their noses are on average are not very beautiful. VERY few people in the north think they resembe germans,"
That's alot different from *you* saying "germans are known for having ugly noses". You know, saying it's common knowledge their noses are ugly compared to swedes or whatever, and backing this up with.... seven photos.
"and as a foreigner you don't see that because everything looks the same to you as long as it's blonde, white and blue-eyed doesn't it?"
As a foreigner, my perspective is more limited, certainly. But I'm not going around taking a few dozen photos and making insane generalizations of a country or an entire ethnic group based on them.
"It was a response to Visitor(Godis)'s post:""If swedish girls have robust nose, than the noses of other girls are even more robust. That's the point"
This is simply not true. German women or Irish women for example do not have robust noses on average. If you were to compare the Germans and the Swedes, the Swedes would have more robust noses. This is the conclusion I draw from the analysis of Emily's photos and photos in general of Swedes on the net.
And C'mon swedes have more robust noses than germans? Well i'm guessing you just took my part out so you could twist and turn this your angle.""
So you'll get back at her with an equal amount of bigotry?
"I agree with Callmewhateveryouwant's theory. The biggest mass rape ever occcured efter World war two in Germany when the russians got revenge by raping all the girls and women so it's not very strange that has affected the bloodlines and looks of people."
When did he present this crude theory? How many of those rapes were aborted? Do you have any real evidence that this had an actual effect on their looks?
It's funny how you'd invoke a typical racial nationalist slant of a supposedly less attractive foreign element raping a better looking people, except this time with WHITES. No, it's actually kind of deranged. As I've said before, it's inane to treat the ethnic features of one white ethnic group as some kind of impermeable element and not just a natural expression of extreme ethnic traits amongst whites everywhere. (IE if russians do somehow have less attractive noses than swedes on average)
"Btw, "EVEN CLOSER"??? If you belive slavs and romanians are close to nothern people you must be crazy."
I never said slavs and romanians were that close to northern people. (but they are, overall, since europeans are all quite closely related.) I just found it sick how you'd make some elitist statement about germans having "ugly noses" when they're even closer to scandinavians than romanians or slavs.
"They look so extreamly alike to us swedes that we don't even bring them up individually. That's why we say nothern people and not swedish people...if you haven't understood that yet lol. We would be dumb if we and you(well since you did it not meaning the rest of the north you are kind of dumb)"
No, you idiot, I was merely wondering why nordic fetishists here almost never, ever, EVER bring up other nordic people. It's always swedes, swedes, and nothing else. It genuinely makes me wonder if you think swedes are strongly removed from people like norwegians in terms of looks, in face of how you people go on so much about them.
"kept on saying "nordic people" when we only meant swedish people. The reason for example Emily takes swedish girls as examples is that swedish people are the climax of the nordic race. Most people here are beautiful."
Oh. So I guess swedes are pretty far removed from other nordics since they're the "climax".
"Swedish vikings created Kiev and is from them the name "Russia" comes from becuase they were called "Rus" becuase they came from "Roslagen" which lays in the north of Sweden.
Well if you look at the original slavic look, dark hair, dark eyes the rough jawline and so on it's very obvious that they have bin improved with swedish blonde hair and blue eyes and the finer nordic draws."
I technically didn't say that vikings didn't make incursions into Russia- just that they made this massive "improvement" on the looks of slavs. What is this original slavic look exactly? Where do you get it from?
Oh, and there's the wonderful nordic fetishist slant of trashing on dark hair and eyes. Something that more whites possess than the opposite.
"The photo art photo comes from a danish "viking art" photographer called njordfoto and the woman(which I strongly belive is her) is in MANY of her other photos and she is just as beautiful there. Belive it or not, but we have actual beautiful people here in Scandinavia. http://www.myspace.com/njordfoto"
I don't see any of the photos you posted on that myspace. I never said that there wern't beautiful people in scandinavia, either. One of my major points of contention is how you people act like Sweden has goddesses on every street corner. People like you and Emily spam the living hell out of photos of these scandinavians you think are good looking, or gorgeous, but somehow don't manage to appeal to others like you do. It's probably just a case of certain variable aspects of beauty coming into play. And in some cases, I find some of these women outright unattractive and am amazed you'd try to pass them off as "swedish beauties". I think it's more of a case of you grabbing *anything* that minutely fits your mile-high standards of beauty and run with it. What, did you genuinely find that swedish woman with the massive, unbalanced mouth attractive?
"The rest are NORDIC models from nordic model companies, famous swedish people or other pictures taken from nordic websites who own them."
Post the sites. Are they swedish, by the way?
"You know? Nobody really cares if ypu find these women unattractive because I know they are."
I think it should be worthy of consideration that your paragons of beauty aren't as universally appealing as you put them off as. Like I said, maybe alot of people do find them as attractive in the same vein as some of the asian women I've posted, but what do you know- variable standards of beauty. Some of them, however, are pretty unattractive and I find it very hard to believe you find them as such.
"For the amateur photos, they are of average swedish people with beauty, the girl who you said had acne and a large jaw and such is a teen model. She had many beautiful photos on her blogg with I don't show you."
Then post them. If you want to make a point, don't post bad photos. (the one with the large jaw and cheekbones was different from the one who appeared to have acne. Why were you posting a "swedish beauty" with traits more typical of an asian?)
"You know what? I can post hundreds an hundreds of photos and you still won't agree with me because you are so obviously jealus of that most people here have an average beauty and that there are so many extreamly beautiful people here."
Oh boy, this is the first time I've outright been accused of jealousy here. No, you little lunatic, I genuinely don't find alot of these women you and Emily post as appealing as you make them out to be. You might be able to see this if you wern't so insanely elitist, or ethnocentric, or shallow, or blinded by your inhumanly narrow senses of beauty and nationalist biases.
"These girls goes to my school of 200 people(the second girl is swedish/greek):
Funny thing is that almsost no one in her class knows she(the last girl, i'm not saying her name)is a model in new yourk and like famous, a guy from the class under mine were hanging out with me and my friends one day and he found out and he didn't belive us. He was shocked."
I don't find either of these women very attractive. They're both rather masculine and the second one even moreso. Especially her puffy lips.
Oh, I must be jealous.
Emily:
"The last pictures you posted are of girls who don't look ethnically like Swedes. Not the blond ones, and not the last one, of course. The blonde girl looks very Eastern European (The face shape, "puffy Asiatic" cheeks, weak chin, lower, somewhat slanting forehead, and the typical olive eye colour you find among E. Europeans or S. Europeans) and the other one looks like she might have black admixture. Very weird non-descript face.
I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here, but it was not representative photos at all, unless your intent was to show ethnically mixed people."
Since Cecilia, in the next post, which I don't see a point in addressing, what does it tell you that women like this can pop up in the valhalla of human beauty like Sweden?
"As for the slanting forehead it is most often seen on non-Nordic women of Eastern and South European descent, and of course in the Middle East, which attributes to their overall masculine appearance."
I posted a chart- from this very site- addressing forehead angles among world populations when you were screaming about east asians having such flatter foreheads than whites.
Left side is greater flatness, right side is greater height and roundness.
Looks like europeans and middle easterners are pretty much the same. As are east asians.
You posting 3 women doesn't tell us a thing about such massive populations, especially when forehead structure is so strongly variable among humans. This chart says that SS africans have more sloping foreheads on average, but then I've seen *alot* of blacks with high, rounded foreheads. And as I've said, there's been ALOT of cultures that have practiced head binding that drastically altered the shape of the forehead, often out of beauty. Some of this could be a form of fethishization, but a lower forehead could be a component of masculine beauty.
Which you wouldn't dare want to infiltrate your precious swedish genepool, when basic laws of heritability dictate swedish men are quite feminine.
"Regarding Asian noses, they qualify only when they approach the Nordic nose in appearance, and this is proven by the fact that the Asian fetishists here often post photos of Asians with noses that have a non-typically high nose bridge."
I'm not an asian fetishist. I don't believe the average physical appearance of east asians is as high as some of the asian women I've posted. I can admit certain physical flaws on the parts of asians. You deserve the label of "fetishist" because you worship, and, well, fetishize nordic traits and consider it a complete sin to suggest anything negative about them. Besides, just because some of these asians have nasal features slightly approaching nordic noses doesn't say anything. Let's go over this again-
There's nothing wrong with suggesting, or saying, or pointing out one ethnic group is more attractive than another. What really matters, however, is how much of a certain ethnic group's ethnic traits will be lost in a universal standard of beauty, however that may be defined.
Every single ethnic group can exhibit ethnic extremities, and these seem to be consequences of a normal continuum of their ethnic traits. Overtly convex noses are more of an ethnic trait of middle easterners and the like, but pop up still often in europeans due to general ethnic similarity. Overtly projecting noses are more common amongst middle easterners as well, but seem to be an extreme ethnic trait typical to caucasoid populations all over. Overtly concave noses are quite uncommon among humans, but are the opposite of overtly convex ones, and seem to be more of an ethnic trait of europeans, considering how lightly concaved noses are quite common amongst europeans.
I could post some examples of these overtly concave noses, better known as "scoop" noses, if you want. But what I'm also getting at is this- someone pointing out another white ethnic group having poorer noses than another is pretty much just pointing out a natural consequence of extreme ethnic traits propogating amongst another. Since Europe generally has a similar climate all around, and not enough to affect nose structure substantially, well, its kind of pointless to pin this down to climactic differences.
I find alot of these theories of sexual selection to be really spurious because, throughout history, lots, and I mean *lots* of people have been forced to select partners based on much less than looks. Than you've got loads of factors like migratory patterns, population flucuations via disease, war, famine etc. that could affect population sizes and thus skew the average looks, etc. I don't deny sexual selection can play a role, but it's too convoluted to make such large judgements.
"As we all know the typical Asian nose is flat from the side, with a very weak nose bridge, and is often also too broad, especially on South East Asians.
All you do is make the case that the mongoloid nose shape is unattractive, and noses that look more Nordic and less asian are more appealing on Asians. So, where does that contradict Erik's conclusions here, VC? Asian promoters' own argument in fact supports it. lol "
The extreme nose length seems to be a typical caucasoid trait, and the depth of the nose bridge is up to debate. (what about nose bridges too high?
Plus, let's address something related to physical symmetry and balance. In relation to that plastic surgeon I mentioned, one universal aspect of facial symmetry is, well, a nose to balance out the face. He told me that you can't have plastic surgeons lying about such things (in Emily's words, "bowing down to political correctness", I suppose) to their patients because it'd be a metter of malpractice.
Her nose is extremely small compared to the rest of her face, and the bone in her face is also poorly distributed. Her nose isn't flat, but it's extremely narrow and small. She'd look alot better if her nose was widened, or the bone in her face distributed to balance it out.
Someone once criticized me when using the term "neoteny" in reference to the greater average femininity of east asians, asking me what's better- someone who looks like a woman or someone who looks like a child? I never denied that a more feminine population would be more prone to hyper-feminine women, which is the case of east asians and a natural consequence of any population that wants feminine looking women. An example of this would be the nose of east asians, which is more neotenic than the noses of nordics-IE, flatter and less projecting. Well, some of this supposed unattractiveness from an overtly wide, narrow, small, whatever nose is just a consequence of poor facial symmetry and unrelated to femininity or masculinity.
This is something that's poorly considered on this site, especially by Erik. Erik almost never addresses facial symmetry in relation to nose structure and the like on this site, acting as if it's all about convergence upon instrinsic values most often seen amongst europeans and acting like jaw and cheekbone size is related to femininity. This is another thing I see Erik as dead wrong about.
...And I got this from a plastic surgeon. An ASIAN ONE, I might add. Who was fully willing to admit east asians can be prone to overtly wide, rounded faces. (but whites are more prone to overtly narrow, long faces, aka the "horse face" look.)
"The photos VC posted look like a gallery of pubescent girls that might attract white pedophiles. Rather creepy."
I said some of them looked like teenagers, and probably were. I didn't make those collages. My main intention was showing how jaw and cheekbone size are unrelated to femininity (which you don't seem to be addressing), and an example of some proper ethnic traits amongst east asians.
You claiming that it looks like a "gallery" of pubescent girls is just your own sick biases, though. From what I've gathered from you, east asians pretty much all look like undeveloped, fetal dwarves with downs syndrome and can only look good, and even rarely as such, from intense plastic surgery or white admixture.
"By the way, I noticed the very unappealing greenish-yellowish skin colour asians often have in more natural, candid photos, so it makes sense to use that artificial lighting they love as it completely conceals their true skin tone."
Only to someone who reviles almost anything outside of nordic white skin, I suppose. (but doesn't see anything hilariously contradictory about spamming photos of swedes in night clubs with tans.)
On another note, since you and callmewhateveryouwant criticize me for using the neoteny argument "in favor" (when I fully admit such a trait can have side effects) of asians, what does this say about the white skin seen amongst nordics? Since women, universally, have lighter skin than men (albeit this is a difference so incredibly minute almost nobody notices it), it should be treated as a neotenic trait. (but of course neoteny isn't a universal correlate of beauty, nor is full-blown neoteny.) By your standards, shouldn't white skin be considered hyper-neotenic, in a way undeveloped and child like like the traits you deride amongst east asians?
I'm not saying it is, nor do I believe it is, but it should be a natural consequence of your beliefs, especially considering how poorly they're argued.
I'm not really going to address more of your comments on romanians, but:
"An over-sized nose can look OK on men since they are masculine, but not on women."
True. I agree with this. It enhances masculine beauty. But... what about the noses amongst nordics??! Oh, I guess all those soft, small, feminine noses that are prized amongst nordics are a feminine trait on men, and so I guess nordic men are feminine as well.
"Here we also see the typical olive eye colour that many of them call "green". It is not typical for Scandinavians but rather frequently seen in Mediterranean people and Romanians.."
..............What's wrong with olive colored eyes? That's technically a light eye color. Oh, I guess anything outside of blue or grey or classical green eyes just isn't right.
I'm kinda trying to figure out why Emily keeps bringing up specifically Romanian women? It's like she has something against me and thinks that if she posts photos up of unattractive Romanian women with big noses, it must mean I am an unattractive Romanian woman with a big nose or something.
Luckily, I don't take any of that crap personally because well its kind of hard to since Emily never saw me before. But it seems Emily takes everything anyone says against Swedes personally, so she feels she has to attack other people by trying to insult their ethnicity.
It's also funny how Emily and Cecilia will trash German women too. haha No one is as good as the Swedes are they?
Whats funny is that Emily thinks a fellow Swede looks Russian. She just doesn't understand the reason many Scandinavians look that way is because they too, just like Russians do, have a non-Nordic element to their features because they are not 100% Nordic! I doubt you will find any population that is pure. Even the supposed purest of the pure have Asiatic admixture! Haha 10% Non-Nordic to be exact. That's kind of large considering their supposed "pureness".
And Cecilia has mentioned that Scandinavians do not look like Germans even though they are Germanic! DUH! They have a whole different Asiatic element to them taht Germans do not display or do so on a lower frequency. You will find less Germans with what seems to be a type of epicanthal folds, or that round face you so often actually DO see among SCANDINAVIANS!
And the VIKINGS are known for being very tall, husky, big boned, and hairy btw. That's including the women...
Romanian women with slanting foreheads. Very common. It does look masculine, I think, and tend to make the typically Romanian large and hooked nose look even bigger.
Some have a finer and more "Nordic" face shape with better forehead and chin development, and they could have looked so much better with a smaller nose. The large nose seems to be very persistent. So many have them. An over-sized nose can look OK on men since they are masculine, but not on women.
Here we also see the typical olive eye colour that many of them call "green". It is not typical for Scandinavians but rather frequently seen in Mediterranean people and Romanians..
As for the slanting forehead it is most often seen on non-Nordic women of Eastern and South European descent, and of course in the Middle East, which attributes to their overall masculine appearance.
Before
After
Before
After
Before
After
Regarding Asian noses, they qualify only when they approach the Nordic nose in appearance, and this is proven by the fact that the Asian fetishists here often post photos of Asians with noses that have a non-typically high nose bridge.
As we all know the typical Asian nose is flat from the side, with a very weak nose bridge, and is often also too broad, especially on South East Asians.
All you do is make the case that the mongoloid nose shape is unattractive, and noses that look more Nordic and less asian are more appealing on Asians. So, where does that contradict Erik's conclusions here, VC? Asian promoters' own argument in fact supports it. lol
What you do is saying "we can have good nose bridges too". Sure, but it is hardly the norm, or what most asians have. In fact, creating a nose bridge is one of the absolutely most popular plastic surgeries on Asians.
The photos VC posted look like a gallery of pubescent girls that might attract white pedophiles. Rather creepy.
By the way, I noticed the very unappealing greenish-yellowish skin colour asians often have in more natural, candid photos, so it makes sense to use that artificial lighting they love as it completely conceals their true skin tone.
"The last pictures you posted are of girls who don't look ethnically like Swedes. Not the blond ones, and not the last one, of course. The blonde girl looks very Eastern European (The face shape, "puffy Asiatic" cheeks, weak chin, lower, somewhat slanting forehead, and the typical olive eye colour you find among E. Europeans or S. Europeans) and the other one looks like she might have black admixture. Very weird non-descript face.
I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here, but it was not representative photos at all, unless your intent was to show ethnically mixed people."
I know she looks russian xD. My point was'nt for those last pictures to be reprensentive but to show athat we have 2 big models in my tiny tiny school and that says something about the north. (That models and very beautiful people are so common here). I've always thought she looks like a russian too but she's not of russian heritage strangely. Which also can prove how various looks people in Sweden can have. The other girl is just so increadably pretty and I love her lips. Well I guess that's her gift as a half greek half swede. :)
The last pictures you posted are of girls who don't look ethnically like Swedes. Not the blond ones, and not the last one, of course. The blonde girl looks very Eastern European (The face shape, "puffy Asiatic" cheeks, weak chin, lower, somewhat slanting forehead, and the typical olive eye colour you find among E. Europeans or S. Europeans) and the other one looks like she might have black admixture. Very weird non-descript face.
I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here, but it was not representative photos at all, unless your intent was to show ethnically mixed people.
"Funny thing is that almsost no one in her class knows she(the last girl, i'm not saying her name)is a model in new yourk and like famous, a guy from the class under mine were hanging out with me and my friends one day and he found out and he didn't belive us. He was shocked."
Jesus Christ have I become 5 years old?
*A funny thing is that almost no one in her class, knows she(the last girl, I'm not telling you her name) is a model in New York and sort of famous. And nobody knew she hanged out with big swedish musicians. A guy from the class below mine was haning out with me and my friends in school one day not long ago and in some way we started talking about her being a model. At first he didn't believe us but then we showd him modelling photos and compared them with the ones on her facebook and he got very shocked.
*extremely
*you
*famous
*it is from them the name "Russia" comes from. They were called "Rus" because they came from "Roslagen" which lies in the north of Sweden.
*which I haven't shown you
Well, I guess you still understand what I'm saying.
"The typical german look you post here is only SEVEN WOMEN. You nordic fetishists are so extreme that you'll even attack people even closer to you than slavs, romanians, etc. You people are beyond repugnant."
I've bin to Germany many times and you know, even though we're both germanic, we DO NOT LOOK exactly the same. There are small differances in the nordic countries also(in Finland there are bigger differances of course since they are a baltic people to some extent), but that takes a person coming from here to see.
Attack? Some germans are really beautiful and I like the people, but their noses are on average are not very beautiful. VERY few people in the north think they resembe germans, and as a foreigner you don't see that because everything looks the same to you as long as it's blonde, white and blue-eyed doesn't it? It was a response to Visitor(Godis)'s post:""If swedish girls have robust nose, than the noses of other girls are even more robust. That's the point"
This is simply not true. German women or Irish women for example do not have robust noses on average. If you were to compare the Germans and the Swedes, the Swedes would have more robust noses. This is the conclusion I draw from the analysis of Emily's photos and photos in general of Swedes on the net."
And C'mon swedes have more robust noses than germans? Well i'm guessing you just took my part out so you could twist and turn this your angle.
I agree with Callmewhateveryouwant's theory. The biggest mass rape ever occcured efter World war two in Germany when the russians got revenge by raping all the girls and women so it's not very strange that has affected the bloodlines and looks of people.
Btw, "EVEN CLOSER"??? If you belive slavs and romanians are close to nothern people you must be crazy.
"Tell me, what are your opinions on the beauty of Danes, Norwegians, and Icelanders? I never see the nordic fetishists say much of them"
They look so extreamly alike to us swedes that we don't even bring them up individually. That's why we say nothern people and not swedish people...if you haven't understood that yet lol. We would be dumb if we and you(well since you did it not meaning the rest of the north you are kind of dumb) kept on saying "nordic people" when we only meant swedish people. The reason for example Emily takes swedish girls as examples is that swedish people are the climax of the nordic race. Most people here are beautiful.
"Show some proof that there were major viking incursions centuries ago into Russia, and that the physical traits from them managed to propogate amongst the so-called "better looking" russian women."
Swedish vikings created Kiev and is from them the name "Russia" comes from becuase they were called "Rus" becuase they came from "Roslagen" which lays in the north of Sweden.
Well if you look at the original slavic look, dark hair, dark eyes the rough jawline and so on it's very obvious that they have bin improved with swedish blonde hair and blue eyes and the finer nordic draws.
"Proof"
The photo art photo comes from a danish "viking art" photographer called njordfoto and the woman(which I strongly belive is her) is in MANY of her other photos and she is just as beautiful there. Belive it or not, but we have actual beautiful people here in Scandinavia.
The rest are NORDIC models from nordic model companies, famous swedish people or other pictures taken from nordic websites who own them.
You know? Nobody really cares if ypu find these women unattractive because I know they are. For the amateur photos, they are of average swedish people with beauty, the girl who you said had acne and a large jaw and such is a teen model. She had many beautiful photos on her blogg with I don't show you.
You know what? I can post hundreds an hundreds of photos and you still won't agree with me because you are so obviously jealus of that most people here have an average beauty and that there are so many extreamly beautiful people here.
These girls goes to my school of 200 people(the second girl is swedish/greek):
Funny thing is that almsost no one in her class knows she(the last girl, i'm not saying her name)is a model in new yourk and like famous, a guy from the class under mine were hanging out with me and my friends one day and he found out and he didn't belive us. He was shocked.
I find the contentions about the Marquardt Mask lacking in contextual adhesiveness and also demonstrative of someone lacking background in artistic analysis.
Your refutation revolves around isolated preference studies. Although I have no issue with the findings of the studies you state, you can't string or patchwork pieces of information having to do with parts of the face, as you have done, to refute the whole. The whole context of golden ratio analysis relates to the WHOLE of something and how all the parts, as balanced, contribute to the 'gestalt' of the whole. His whole body of work as it is demonstrated in the mask can not be refuted via the isolated 'parts' (studies) you have introduced to do so.
With regard to Class 2 profile preferences you contend he builds into his female mask. You do NOT differentiate the salient aspect of a class 2 profile from a prominent anteriorly projected chin. Class 2 is when the lower lip protrudes beyond the upper lip. It is not only a matter of the chin being forward. Although the profile mask depicts a stronger chin for the female; one which might have more anterior projection, this does not classify it as a "Class 2" like profile. You would need to demonstrate the mask portrayed a lower lip position similar to a class 2 profile to keep congruent with the contention you have.
With regard to eyebrow position and shape, they are a function of how anteriorly projected the brow bone/upper orbital rim area of the brow bone is. More anterior projection in that region will have the brows PROJECT lower on a 2-D plane. What the mask is effectively 'saying' is that there is a preference for anterior projection to the female forehead. Something, with which the brows will project lower on the face. It is quite different from having a posteriorly inclined forehead or an under projected one, in which case, brow position is set higher. If you check some of your isolated studies, I'm sure you will find that..
With regard to your contention of the nasion "not" being set at mid pupil level on his mask, I question how you made that observation given that a straight horizontal line can be drawn to intersect the nasio frontal angle in that mask and cut right through mid-pupil level.
In essence none of your observations fit the context of how one would go about making the type of refutation you are trying to make. You contend: "Marquardt’s mask is shown to be inconsistent with what most people actually prefer." What most people "actually prefer" comes from studies having to do with (isolated) PARTS of things and has little bearing of what they would prefer when it comes to the WHOLE of things; ALL the parts of a face, evaluated together on the WHOLE FACE. So your 'summing up the parts' type argument here runs counter to the whole concept of evaluating the WHOLE; not by the sum of it's parts (or in your case the sum of parts from other places!) and that's why I find your stance disembodied.
In essence, his mask is an 'Eigen' diagram relating to what preferences would be to the whole face if viewed in entirety. It is based on what preferences are: SUBLIMINAL preferences for the type of faces one sees on models. It's hard to refute subliminal preferences with the type of conscious choice preferences you have cited to do so. Why? In essence, people DO prefer 'model' like faces on a subliminal level. If they did not, the type of model faces he has based his mask on would not be used in mass media which do indeed appeal to people on a subliminal level. If they did not, they would not be used to market fashion and beauty products. Model faces are those in which one 'part' might be isolated and shown as a non preference BUT for which the WHOLE 'works' which is precisely what golden ratio analysis is about.
Although I don't use his mask, many of my own independent findings (yes, also based on model faces) about ratio relationships of the parts relating back to the whole do cross reference with golden ratio geometry and aesthetic theory based on it and very much overlap with his assessments. I use them to assess whether or not a face can or can not be made 'beautiful' or 'like a model' as there are some 'core ratios' that if not present to the face, preclude the individual ever looking 'like a model' no matter how much plastic surgery they get in that attempt. Many of the ratios I have isolated, when used to design an 'ideal face'; the act of constructing or drawing one with the same ratios, fit perfectly into his mask.
Golden ratio relationships are used by ARTISTS to design something and very much can be found via an astute eye analyzing a work of art if you know how and where to look for those relationships. However, for the most part, those very relationships are best appreciated by the observer by LIKING the work of art on a 'gut' level or a subliminal level. The very act of producing a work of art of great visual appeal, eg. designing a face in the case of master sculptors or artists who did that involves 'hiding where the golden ratio is'. When it's there and in the 'right' places, you, the viewer, will have a favorable reaction (a liking) to the look of the WHOLE of the work.
Likewise with the human face, when the golden ratio relationships are there, you will have a favorable reaction to the face as a WHOLE and DESPITE a 'part' that you might not like if isolated in a study aimed at isolating parts and choosing preferences for those isolated parts.
Golden ratio design, especially regarding the human face is aimed at "delighting the eye", one of the very things that plastic surgeons have in their ideological thinking as NOT being the aim of what they do: 'To improve or make whole again but NOT to delight the eye'. So, it is no surprise to me that much of the way they go about analyzing a face would NOT incorporate a type of golden ratio analysis or 'Eigen face' mask of such that is predicated in 'delighting the eye' and hence no surprise to me that your article would be embraced by that audience.
If you wanted to refute his aesthetic theory that the mask fits "beautiful" faces what you would need to do is actually USE it demonstrate:
A: It fits "ugly" or "unattractive" faces just as well.
B: "beautiful" faces don't fit into it at all
Something you would need to do by actually using WHOLE faces as opposed to snippets of studies showing preferences for placement of isolated parts. You have not done that. Hence, I'm refuting your refutation of his findings.
"Whites indeed have big (high) noses. So far most of the pictures brought by the opposition display surgically altered asians with a somehow higher nose bridge."
True. The "opposition" in this regard isn't particularly well informed. Then again, neither is the nordic worshipping side.
"Even the asian girls that you are showing don't have that flat nose."
It depends on what you define as "that flat nose". Very flat noses with almost no projection are more common among east asians, certainly. Then again, strongly projecting noses are more common caucasoid populations, nordic, mediterranean, middle eastern etc. regardless. I believe such a trait is a typical ethnic extremity of all such populations, but I'm not sure how to quantify that at this point.
"Well, I will not affirm that they had plastic surgery,"
Good. I won't either.
"but I can affirm that there is a correlation between a higher nose and beauty."
Perhaps, but what if the nose is too high, as seen with a woman like this?
Of course it could be another aspect of her nose that makes it appear too masculine. It'd only be possible to get an idea of this if one looked at the physiological limits of nose bridge height among humans and see where you can go from there. But I don't really know. The sort of "low nose bridge" I see amongst east asians doesn't look bad at all to me. East asians frequently spoke lowly of the higher nose bridges seen among whites.
"Somehow your asian girls approach a more ainu look; hence, a vague caucasian resemblance."
I don't really see this. Plus, ainu more closely resemble native americans. They higher nose bridges sure, but their noses are generally about as "flat" as the japanese. I have seen a number of ainu with heavily projecting noses, however. A "vague" cacausian appearance, perhaps, but this comes back to how these sorts of discussions assume europeans, specifically northern europeans, don't have their own ethnic extremities.
I will repeat- it is not wrong to say that one ethnic group is more attractive than another, but what is of interest is how many ethnic features of a particular ethnic group will be "lost" in a universal beauty standard, however that may be defined.
"It's ridiculous. Of course they have oversized heads."
Again. This is an aspect of body symmetry. It's been detailed extensively on this site before. A woman with a large head on a small body will have an "oversized head", but on a proportionately larger, taller body, it'll look just fine. Vice versa holds true with a woman with a small head.
Plus, I was mainly addressing how some people, like you, were saying their larger jaws and cheekbones make a face more masculine. (they don't.)
"I'm not supposed to say."
Why?
"Back in time germans used to be fully nordic corcerning "race". All get messed up when a bunch of melon headed polish and slavics got inside. Northern germans are nordics (althoug going to be extinct too) and southern germans are submitted dinarics and alpines. Eastern germans are mixed with slavic."
What do you mean by melon headed? How do you quantify these kinds of migrations? Whether or not poles and slavs or whatever have more prominent, or more overtly convex noses doesn't matter in terms of ethnic features among whites, as I've said before.
"Another victory for envy."
No, these are my honest opinions. Maybe some of these women really are considered highly attractive by a good deal of people, but not so much to me.
Oh hey, differing tastes. And I genuinely doubt a number of those women can even be considered moderately attractive. Plus, some of those photos were of poor quality.
Only in your view. In MY opinion, white women in general, both in terms of "averages" and those deemed attractive, are very overrated.
I wonder what's not overrated in your opinion.
Alot of asians, both modern and pre-contact, have knocked on the looks of whites by saying things like them having "big noses". These things are pretty relative to me, but at times, when you compare an attractive east asian ethnic nose to an attractive nordic ethnic nose, the nordic nose type just stypes me as being too sharp, at times.
Whites indeed have big (high) noses. So far most of the pictures brought by the opposition display surgically altered asians with a somehow higher nose bridge.
Even the asian girls that you are showing don't have that flat nose. Well, I will not affirm that they had plastic surgery, but I can affirm that there is a correlation between a higher nose and beauty. Somehow your asian girls approach a more ainu look; hence, a vague caucasian resemblance.
than whites, one example of them having big, rugged heads. (even though the overall ruggedness didn't differ)
It's ridiculous. Of course they have oversized heads.
And finally Callmewhateveryouwant, just what is your ethnic background?
I'm not supposed to say.
The typical german look you post here is only SEVEN WOMEN. You nordic fetishists are so extreme that you'll even attack people even closer to you than slavs, romanians, etc. You people are beyond repugnant.
Back in time germans used to be fully nordic corcerning "race". All get messed up when a bunch of melon headed polish and slavics got inside. Northern germans are nordics (althoug going to be extinct too) and southern germans are submitted dinarics and alpines. Eastern germans are mixed with slavic.
"I have brought tons of pictures and comparative examples to show why I stand for nordic beauty."
Which doesn't compare to you saying "nordics are blessed".
"Nordics are not overrated. Nothing in this world gets more overrated than italians."
Only in your view. In MY opinion, white women in general, both in terms of "averages" and those deemed attractive, are very overrated.
"I have never heard a person saying that they preffer asians because they have sunken noses and flat faces."
Alot of asians, both modern and pre-contact, have knocked on the looks of whites by saying things like them having "big noses". These things are pretty relative to me, but at times, when you compare an attractive east asian ethnic nose to an attractive nordic ethnic nose, the nordic nose type just stypes me as being too sharp, at times.
"that's why the asian pictures brought by the opposition deviate so much from the average."
Ok, here's some examples, which I've posted before (but only showed up as a link because I was using IE). But, I should note that I don't find all of these women highly attractive, and especially moderately attractive, but they have general ethnic features that IMO, look just fine, and bring to mind how some people, a month ago, were screaming at how east asians aren't more feminine, ON AVERAGE, than whites, one example of them having big, rugged heads. (even though the overall ruggedness didn't differ)
First off, jaw and cheekbone size has NOTHING to do with overall femininity or masculinity. As shown on this site, the neoteny that affected human evolution did so primarily with the shape of the cranium, not the face. I've been in communication with a prominent LA plastic surgeon via email on some of these issues, and he agrees with that point- it's just that certain sizes of the cheekbones are more prone to certain facial shape extremities, IE overtly around faces amongst east asians, overtly long, narrow faces amongst whites etc.
A few other things to mention- not all of these women have good noses, or symmetrical facial features, or good teeth, but the trend is clear in terms of femininity having *nothing* to do with jaw and cheekbone size, along with these general ethnic traits looking just fine.
I didn't make these collages. The women in the first collage, well, some of them look like teenagers, and the inclusion of Donald Rumsfeld is obviously a joke. I'm just mainly making a point about general ethnic features (nose structure, mandibular structure and facial size etc.) in contrast to how the "opposition" supposedly only shows very white looking asians.
And finally Callmewhateveryouwant, just what is your ethnic background?
Cecilia:
Dear god. At first I thought you were Emily, but I don't know. Maybe you really are befitting of the moniker "Emily clone". The general behavior, the hardcore nordic elitism, the idiotic comments about european history.
I mean GOD, look what you said awhile back:
" Submitted by Cecilia on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 09:30.
Sorry but germans are known for having ugly noses...
The typical german look:"
The typical german look you post here is only SEVEN WOMEN. You nordic fetishists are so extreme that you'll even attack people even closer to you than slavs, romanians, etc. You people are beyond repugnant.
In regards to your overall comment, though:
"So true, slavic women and models are also overrated, it's like, your countries are HUGE, of course you manage to produce some models. And slavic "beauty" is SO overrated, it's not BEAUTIFUL."
Yeah, it's so HUGE, and yet you scumbags like to make such freakish generalizations about their average attractiveness, compared to the tiny, tiny population of Sweden.
Tell me, what are your opinions on the beauty of Danes, Norwegians, and Icelanders? I never see the nordic fetishists say much of them.
"All the really beautiful russian women and models(the one who don't look extreamly slavic like the people real Russia) have traits from the swedish vikings who settled there."
Show some proof that there were major viking incursions centuries ago into Russia, and that the physical traits from them managed to propogate amongst the so-called "better looking" russian women. I doubt you can. Much like Emily's ideas of so many attractive east asians being mixed (which is impossible to prove, because there's no basis for it), the idea of romanians having a bunch of gypsy admixture, czechs being quite ugly in reality and only looking better because of germanic introgression. (oh, but fellow nordic fetishist cecilia thanks germans are "well known" for having ugly noses.)
"HOW can you even compare slavic "beauty". LOL the second one won Miss World, can you belive that??:"
Considering how international beauty pageants are dominated by homosexual men with crude notions of female beauty (which Erik seems to have documented well enough), I don't see how this is representative of slavs at large.
Unless you want to be consistent with this idiocy and use all of the androgynous white models, largely from america, which is largely of northern european extraction, as representative of "white beauty". (oh, i forgot- since alot of us white americans are of german descent, we must have ugly noses too! what now?)
"With nordic beauty:"
How do you even know all of these women are of nordic descent? The first 2 look quite manly- in fact, the first one has a pretty obvious browridge.
The third woman is seen at a poor angle, with poor lighting, so I can't make much of her.
The fourth woman is pretty, but doesn't appeal too much to me.
The fifth woman isn't anything special, and has some pretty unattractive lips.
The sixth woman's photo has terrible lighting. I can barely make her face out. The lighting makes her look like she has rosacea.
The seventh woman isn't very attractive and looks rather masculine.
The eight woman is also unattractive and looks kind of like these "slavic beauties" you deride.
But yeah, I must be some kind of asian fetishist pedophile to not see the universal beauty of these nordic demigodesses. (which you give NO EVIDENCE a single one of them is scandinavian)
I am a racist idiot: You contribute nothing to these conversations. I mean my god, the second woman you post is a blatant photoshop. Are you retarded?
Cecilia again:
"Btw, those where nordic models, artists and such, NOT photoshoped. The only picture which is remade is the sixth,(the girl isn't remade) and it's only the colours and tones that has bin changes becuase it's photo art."
Proof?
"Yeah, I knoow, normal swedish girls are SOOO ugly:"
The first woman is average, and has a large jaw and large cheekbones. (hey, a trait typical to east asians.)
The second woman... jesus, do you consider her attractive? She has poor lips and poorly complexioned skin. Her cheekbones look kind of masculine too.
The third woman, her mouth is MASSIVE and VERY unbalanced compared to the rest of her face. Not a good trait IMO.
The fourth girl has a rather snubbed nose and her chin doesn't seem too prominent. Either way, not attractive to me.
The fifth girl looks average, and the lighting is poor. I also seem to nice acne.
The sixth woman is taken at a rather poor angle, and doesn't look that great to me even then.
The sixth woman is cute, but not much to my liking.
The seventh woman is seen at nothing more than a profile shot, and even then she looks rather masculine.
The 8th picture is just some people at a dinner table, and I can't make out their faces well.
Btw, those where nordic models, artists and such, NOT photoshoped. The only picture which is remade is the sixth,(the girl isn't remade) and it's only the colours and tones that has bin changes becuase it's photo art.
Ignore him. He's just trolling. Even he (she) probally doesn't believe in what he's talking about himself.
Btw, those where nordic models, artists and such, NOT photoshoped. The only picture which is remade is the sixth,(the girl isn't remade) and it's only the colours and tones that has bin changes becuase it's photo art.
Yeah, I knoow, normal swedish girls are SOOO ugly:
""Maybe it's because the "beauty" of nordic women is insanely overrated"
Nordics are not overrated. Nothing in this world gets more overrated than italians."
So true, slavic women and models are also overrated, it's like, your countries are HUGE, of course you manage to produce some models. And slavic "beauty" is SO overrated, it's not BEAUTIFUL. All the really beautiful russian women and models(the one who don't look extreamly slavic like the people real Russia) have traits from the swedish vikings who settled there.
HOW can you even compare slavic "beauty". LOL the second one won Miss World, can you belive that??:
alt="Image" />
With nordic beauty:
And btw, haha, I found this on a russian pride site. Above it said "The mysterious charm of russian beauty". And this is SO OBVIOUSLY nordic beauty, a woman who decent from the north orginally. She looks like the type example of a nordic person with scandinavian cheekbones and everything. Ironic.
More Nordic faces from Sweden:
Asiatic connection?
http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://www.swedishmodels.net/swedishmodels.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.swedishmodels.net/&usg=__y-NstjQfmJ5jeC1r3yXSCITCx5s=&h=500&w=300&sz=64&hl=nl&start=83&um=1&tbnid=YjuCBPhSgcWYqM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=78&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dswedish%2Bfemale%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Dnl%26sa%3DN%26start%3D80%26um%3D1
Feminine?!
http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://www.swedishmodels.net/swedishmodels.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.swedishmodels.net/&usg=__y-NstjQfmJ5jeC1r3yXSCITCx5s=&h=500&w=300&sz=64&hl=nl&start=83&um=1&tbnid=YjuCBPhSgcWYqM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=78&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dswedish%2Bfemale%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Dnl%26sa%3DN%26start%3D80%26um%3D1
Beautiful?
http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://www.swedishmodels.net/swedishmodels.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.swedishmodels.net/&usg=__y-NstjQfmJ5jeC1r3yXSCITCx5s=&h=500&w=300&sz=64&hl=nl&start=83&um=1&tbnid=YjuCBPhSgcWYqM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=78&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dswedish%2Bfemale%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Dnl%26sa%3DN%26start%3D80%26um%3D1
Fine nose?
http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://www.swedishmodels.net/swedishmodels.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.swedishmodels.net/&usg=__y-NstjQfmJ5jeC1r3yXSCITCx5s=&h=500&w=300&sz=64&hl=nl&start=83&um=1&tbnid=YjuCBPhSgcWYqM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=78&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dswedish%2Bfemale%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Dnl%26sa%3DN%26start%3D80%26um%3D1
Don't tell me now that those girls are not even Swedish, just because they have puffy faces with epicanthic folds and wide bulbous noses!
Emily:
"She looks Slavic/ Eastern European because she IS Slavic. She is ethnically not Swedish. Very simple. That's like posting pics of Zlatan Ibrahimovic, telling everyone he is ethnically Swedish. Give me a break. lol It takes a little more than dying your hair blonde, you know, Godis. ;)"
You don't know if she's slavic or not. There's much general physical similarity amongst european ethnic groups, so it's not hard to come across a swede who doesn't look "swedish".
"It tells me immigration is not often a good thing."
To the point where you'd bar other whites soley on the basis of looks?
What about the other unattractive swedes posted here so far? Why did they pop up amongst the swedish superhumans?
VC;
"Since Cecilia, in the next post, which I don't see a point in addressing, what does it tell you that women like this can pop up in the valhalla of human beauty like Sweden?"
It tells me immigration is not often a good thing.
"Whats funny is that Emily thinks a fellow Swede looks Russian."
She looks Slavic/ Eastern European because she IS Slavic. She is ethnically not Swedish. Very simple. That's like posting pics of Zlatan Ibrahimovic, telling everyone he is ethnically Swedish. Give me a break. lol It takes a little more than dying your hair blonde, you know, Godis. ;)
Guys, there is no need to attack any race just because some Nazy lunatics on here are trying to impose their insane point of view!
As a matter of fact, I happened to be physically attracted to my own kind, which by the way perfectly fits the type of people Emily and her think-alikes are worshipping on here, exept for the yellow(so-called blond) hair and the cold coloured eyes. Mine are the same colour as the lion's eyes, which is fiery. BUT, that does not mean that I deny the beauty of other people and their right to enjoy life fully! Emily and her think-alikes are ultra conservative and ignorant individuals.
How about some reality check:
http://www.blackcelebkids.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/tigerbaby-small.jpg
http://blstb.msn.com/i/61/996DAACA30927D868F7B95EA63C8EF.jpg
http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/80/29/sam-alexis-woods-birthday-tiger-woods-wife-us-open-elin-woods-nordegren-.0.0.0x0.398x575.jpeg
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2009/04/Seal.Heidi.Klum.pregnant.jpg
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/02/81592471.jpg
If I was a Nordic or an African, I too would definitely go for an opposite type. That is nature's way of constant creativity which brings variety to the world. We are really lucky to have so much choice!
Godis:
"It's also funny how Emily and Cecilia will trash German women too. haha No one is as good as the Swedes are they?"
Yeah, my ancestry is primarily german too. I'm an attractive white male, but that kind of talk doesn't really bother me personally.
"Whats funny is that Emily thinks a fellow Swede looks Russian. She just doesn't understand the reason many Scandinavians look that way is because they too, just like Russians do, have a non-Nordic element to their features because they are not 100% Nordic! I doubt you will find any population that is pure. Even the supposed purest of the pure have Asiatic admixture! Haha 10% Non-Nordic to be exact. That's kind of large considering their supposed "pureness"."
Er, the "purest" "nordics" would probably be the germans. The finns and baltics are ones with admixture around that. And yes, there has been substantial mixture, back and forth, across europe, between ethnicities, for millenia.
"You will find less Germans with what seems to be a type of epicanthal folds, or that round face you so often actually DO see among SCANDINAVIANS!"
I don't think this matters that much, since every general facial shape is prone to extremities. Like I've said, the small, narrow jaws and cheekbones coupled with a narrow face, seen more commonly amongst europeans, particularly scandinavians, is more prone to being overtly narrow, long, tall, whatever- the archtypical "horseface" look. Some prominent examples being Sarah Jessica Parker, Ann Coulter, and Claudia Schiffer without makeup:
http://www.funpub.net/poze/mare/claudia_schiffer_fara_machiaj_1224156536.JPG
Oh, and Sandra Oh, who's korean. Yes, I know she's east asian and their faces are less prone to such structures on average, but she fits the "horse face" mold so perfectly. Her face looks like a japanese noh mask brought to life.
Cecilia:
"I've bin to Germany many times and you know, even though we're both germanic, we DO NOT LOOK exactly the same. There are small differances in the nordic countries also(in Finland there are bigger differances of course since they are a baltic people to some extent), but that takes a person coming from here to see.
Attack? Some germans are really beautiful and I like the people, but their noses are on average are not very beautiful. VERY few people in the north think they resembe germans,"
That's alot different from *you* saying "germans are known for having ugly noses". You know, saying it's common knowledge their noses are ugly compared to swedes or whatever, and backing this up with.... seven photos.
"and as a foreigner you don't see that because everything looks the same to you as long as it's blonde, white and blue-eyed doesn't it?"
As a foreigner, my perspective is more limited, certainly. But I'm not going around taking a few dozen photos and making insane generalizations of a country or an entire ethnic group based on them.
"It was a response to Visitor(Godis)'s post:""If swedish girls have robust nose, than the noses of other girls are even more robust. That's the point"
This is simply not true. German women or Irish women for example do not have robust noses on average. If you were to compare the Germans and the Swedes, the Swedes would have more robust noses. This is the conclusion I draw from the analysis of Emily's photos and photos in general of Swedes on the net.
And C'mon swedes have more robust noses than germans? Well i'm guessing you just took my part out so you could twist and turn this your angle.""
So you'll get back at her with an equal amount of bigotry?
"I agree with Callmewhateveryouwant's theory. The biggest mass rape ever occcured efter World war two in Germany when the russians got revenge by raping all the girls and women so it's not very strange that has affected the bloodlines and looks of people."
When did he present this crude theory? How many of those rapes were aborted? Do you have any real evidence that this had an actual effect on their looks?
It's funny how you'd invoke a typical racial nationalist slant of a supposedly less attractive foreign element raping a better looking people, except this time with WHITES. No, it's actually kind of deranged. As I've said before, it's inane to treat the ethnic features of one white ethnic group as some kind of impermeable element and not just a natural expression of extreme ethnic traits amongst whites everywhere. (IE if russians do somehow have less attractive noses than swedes on average)
"Btw, "EVEN CLOSER"??? If you belive slavs and romanians are close to nothern people you must be crazy."
I never said slavs and romanians were that close to northern people. (but they are, overall, since europeans are all quite closely related.) I just found it sick how you'd make some elitist statement about germans having "ugly noses" when they're even closer to scandinavians than romanians or slavs.
"They look so extreamly alike to us swedes that we don't even bring them up individually. That's why we say nothern people and not swedish people...if you haven't understood that yet lol. We would be dumb if we and you(well since you did it not meaning the rest of the north you are kind of dumb)"
No, you idiot, I was merely wondering why nordic fetishists here almost never, ever, EVER bring up other nordic people. It's always swedes, swedes, and nothing else. It genuinely makes me wonder if you think swedes are strongly removed from people like norwegians in terms of looks, in face of how you people go on so much about them.
"kept on saying "nordic people" when we only meant swedish people. The reason for example Emily takes swedish girls as examples is that swedish people are the climax of the nordic race. Most people here are beautiful."
Oh. So I guess swedes are pretty far removed from other nordics since they're the "climax".
"Swedish vikings created Kiev and is from them the name "Russia" comes from becuase they were called "Rus" becuase they came from "Roslagen" which lays in the north of Sweden.
Well if you look at the original slavic look, dark hair, dark eyes the rough jawline and so on it's very obvious that they have bin improved with swedish blonde hair and blue eyes and the finer nordic draws."
I technically didn't say that vikings didn't make incursions into Russia- just that they made this massive "improvement" on the looks of slavs. What is this original slavic look exactly? Where do you get it from?
Oh, and there's the wonderful nordic fetishist slant of trashing on dark hair and eyes. Something that more whites possess than the opposite.
"The photo art photo comes from a danish "viking art" photographer called njordfoto and the woman(which I strongly belive is her) is in MANY of her other photos and she is just as beautiful there. Belive it or not, but we have actual beautiful people here in Scandinavia.
http://www.myspace.com/njordfoto"
I don't see any of the photos you posted on that myspace. I never said that there wern't beautiful people in scandinavia, either. One of my major points of contention is how you people act like Sweden has goddesses on every street corner. People like you and Emily spam the living hell out of photos of these scandinavians you think are good looking, or gorgeous, but somehow don't manage to appeal to others like you do. It's probably just a case of certain variable aspects of beauty coming into play. And in some cases, I find some of these women outright unattractive and am amazed you'd try to pass them off as "swedish beauties". I think it's more of a case of you grabbing *anything* that minutely fits your mile-high standards of beauty and run with it. What, did you genuinely find that swedish woman with the massive, unbalanced mouth attractive?
"The rest are NORDIC models from nordic model companies, famous swedish people or other pictures taken from nordic websites who own them."
Post the sites. Are they swedish, by the way?
"You know? Nobody really cares if ypu find these women unattractive because I know they are."
I think it should be worthy of consideration that your paragons of beauty aren't as universally appealing as you put them off as. Like I said, maybe alot of people do find them as attractive in the same vein as some of the asian women I've posted, but what do you know- variable standards of beauty. Some of them, however, are pretty unattractive and I find it very hard to believe you find them as such.
"For the amateur photos, they are of average swedish people with beauty, the girl who you said had acne and a large jaw and such is a teen model. She had many beautiful photos on her blogg with I don't show you."
Then post them. If you want to make a point, don't post bad photos. (the one with the large jaw and cheekbones was different from the one who appeared to have acne. Why were you posting a "swedish beauty" with traits more typical of an asian?)
"You know what? I can post hundreds an hundreds of photos and you still won't agree with me because you are so obviously jealus of that most people here have an average beauty and that there are so many extreamly beautiful people here."
Oh boy, this is the first time I've outright been accused of jealousy here. No, you little lunatic, I genuinely don't find alot of these women you and Emily post as appealing as you make them out to be. You might be able to see this if you wern't so insanely elitist, or ethnocentric, or shallow, or blinded by your inhumanly narrow senses of beauty and nationalist biases.
"These girls goes to my school of 200 people(the second girl is swedish/greek):
Funny thing is that almsost no one in her class knows she(the last girl, i'm not saying her name)is a model in new yourk and like famous, a guy from the class under mine were hanging out with me and my friends one day and he found out and he didn't belive us. He was shocked."
I don't find either of these women very attractive. They're both rather masculine and the second one even moreso. Especially her puffy lips.
Oh, I must be jealous.
Emily:
"The last pictures you posted are of girls who don't look ethnically like Swedes. Not the blond ones, and not the last one, of course. The blonde girl looks very Eastern European (The face shape, "puffy Asiatic" cheeks, weak chin, lower, somewhat slanting forehead, and the typical olive eye colour you find among E. Europeans or S. Europeans) and the other one looks like she might have black admixture. Very weird non-descript face.
I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here, but it was not representative photos at all, unless your intent was to show ethnically mixed people."
Since Cecilia, in the next post, which I don't see a point in addressing, what does it tell you that women like this can pop up in the valhalla of human beauty like Sweden?
"As for the slanting forehead it is most often seen on non-Nordic women of Eastern and South European descent, and of course in the Middle East, which attributes to their overall masculine appearance."
I posted a chart- from this very site- addressing forehead angles among world populations when you were screaming about east asians having such flatter foreheads than whites.
Here's the chart again:
www.ImageShack.us" />
Left side is greater flatness, right side is greater height and roundness.
Looks like europeans and middle easterners are pretty much the same. As are east asians.
You posting 3 women doesn't tell us a thing about such massive populations, especially when forehead structure is so strongly variable among humans. This chart says that SS africans have more sloping foreheads on average, but then I've seen *alot* of blacks with high, rounded foreheads. And as I've said, there's been ALOT of cultures that have practiced head binding that drastically altered the shape of the forehead, often out of beauty. Some of this could be a form of fethishization, but a lower forehead could be a component of masculine beauty.
Which you wouldn't dare want to infiltrate your precious swedish genepool, when basic laws of heritability dictate swedish men are quite feminine.
"Regarding Asian noses, they qualify only when they approach the Nordic nose in appearance, and this is proven by the fact that the Asian fetishists here often post photos of Asians with noses that have a non-typically high nose bridge."
I'm not an asian fetishist. I don't believe the average physical appearance of east asians is as high as some of the asian women I've posted. I can admit certain physical flaws on the parts of asians. You deserve the label of "fetishist" because you worship, and, well, fetishize nordic traits and consider it a complete sin to suggest anything negative about them. Besides, just because some of these asians have nasal features slightly approaching nordic noses doesn't say anything. Let's go over this again-
There's nothing wrong with suggesting, or saying, or pointing out one ethnic group is more attractive than another. What really matters, however, is how much of a certain ethnic group's ethnic traits will be lost in a universal standard of beauty, however that may be defined.
Every single ethnic group can exhibit ethnic extremities, and these seem to be consequences of a normal continuum of their ethnic traits. Overtly convex noses are more of an ethnic trait of middle easterners and the like, but pop up still often in europeans due to general ethnic similarity. Overtly projecting noses are more common amongst middle easterners as well, but seem to be an extreme ethnic trait typical to caucasoid populations all over. Overtly concave noses are quite uncommon among humans, but are the opposite of overtly convex ones, and seem to be more of an ethnic trait of europeans, considering how lightly concaved noses are quite common amongst europeans.
I could post some examples of these overtly concave noses, better known as "scoop" noses, if you want. But what I'm also getting at is this- someone pointing out another white ethnic group having poorer noses than another is pretty much just pointing out a natural consequence of extreme ethnic traits propogating amongst another. Since Europe generally has a similar climate all around, and not enough to affect nose structure substantially, well, its kind of pointless to pin this down to climactic differences.
I find alot of these theories of sexual selection to be really spurious because, throughout history, lots, and I mean *lots* of people have been forced to select partners based on much less than looks. Than you've got loads of factors like migratory patterns, population flucuations via disease, war, famine etc. that could affect population sizes and thus skew the average looks, etc. I don't deny sexual selection can play a role, but it's too convoluted to make such large judgements.
"As we all know the typical Asian nose is flat from the side, with a very weak nose bridge, and is often also too broad, especially on South East Asians.
All you do is make the case that the mongoloid nose shape is unattractive, and noses that look more Nordic and less asian are more appealing on Asians. So, where does that contradict Erik's conclusions here, VC? Asian promoters' own argument in fact supports it. lol "
The extreme nose length seems to be a typical caucasoid trait, and the depth of the nose bridge is up to debate. (what about nose bridges too high?
Plus, let's address something related to physical symmetry and balance. In relation to that plastic surgeon I mentioned, one universal aspect of facial symmetry is, well, a nose to balance out the face. He told me that you can't have plastic surgeons lying about such things (in Emily's words, "bowing down to political correctness", I suppose) to their patients because it'd be a metter of malpractice.
Want an example of an extreme case of facial asymmetry?
www.ImageShack.us" />
Rumer Willis:
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&safe=off&sa=1&q=rumer+willis&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10&start=0
Her nose is extremely small compared to the rest of her face, and the bone in her face is also poorly distributed. Her nose isn't flat, but it's extremely narrow and small. She'd look alot better if her nose was widened, or the bone in her face distributed to balance it out.
Someone once criticized me when using the term "neoteny" in reference to the greater average femininity of east asians, asking me what's better- someone who looks like a woman or someone who looks like a child? I never denied that a more feminine population would be more prone to hyper-feminine women, which is the case of east asians and a natural consequence of any population that wants feminine looking women. An example of this would be the nose of east asians, which is more neotenic than the noses of nordics-IE, flatter and less projecting. Well, some of this supposed unattractiveness from an overtly wide, narrow, small, whatever nose is just a consequence of poor facial symmetry and unrelated to femininity or masculinity.
This is something that's poorly considered on this site, especially by Erik. Erik almost never addresses facial symmetry in relation to nose structure and the like on this site, acting as if it's all about convergence upon instrinsic values most often seen amongst europeans and acting like jaw and cheekbone size is related to femininity. This is another thing I see Erik as dead wrong about.
...And I got this from a plastic surgeon. An ASIAN ONE, I might add. Who was fully willing to admit east asians can be prone to overtly wide, rounded faces. (but whites are more prone to overtly narrow, long faces, aka the "horse face" look.)
"The photos VC posted look like a gallery of pubescent girls that might attract white pedophiles. Rather creepy."
I said some of them looked like teenagers, and probably were. I didn't make those collages. My main intention was showing how jaw and cheekbone size are unrelated to femininity (which you don't seem to be addressing), and an example of some proper ethnic traits amongst east asians.
You claiming that it looks like a "gallery" of pubescent girls is just your own sick biases, though. From what I've gathered from you, east asians pretty much all look like undeveloped, fetal dwarves with downs syndrome and can only look good, and even rarely as such, from intense plastic surgery or white admixture.
"By the way, I noticed the very unappealing greenish-yellowish skin colour asians often have in more natural, candid photos, so it makes sense to use that artificial lighting they love as it completely conceals their true skin tone."
Only to someone who reviles almost anything outside of nordic white skin, I suppose. (but doesn't see anything hilariously contradictory about spamming photos of swedes in night clubs with tans.)
On another note, since you and callmewhateveryouwant criticize me for using the neoteny argument "in favor" (when I fully admit such a trait can have side effects) of asians, what does this say about the white skin seen amongst nordics? Since women, universally, have lighter skin than men (albeit this is a difference so incredibly minute almost nobody notices it), it should be treated as a neotenic trait. (but of course neoteny isn't a universal correlate of beauty, nor is full-blown neoteny.) By your standards, shouldn't white skin be considered hyper-neotenic, in a way undeveloped and child like like the traits you deride amongst east asians?
I'm not saying it is, nor do I believe it is, but it should be a natural consequence of your beliefs, especially considering how poorly they're argued.
I'm not really going to address more of your comments on romanians, but:
"An over-sized nose can look OK on men since they are masculine, but not on women."
True. I agree with this. It enhances masculine beauty. But... what about the noses amongst nordics??! Oh, I guess all those soft, small, feminine noses that are prized amongst nordics are a feminine trait on men, and so I guess nordic men are feminine as well.
"Here we also see the typical olive eye colour that many of them call "green". It is not typical for Scandinavians but rather frequently seen in Mediterranean people and Romanians.."
..............What's wrong with olive colored eyes? That's technically a light eye color. Oh, I guess anything outside of blue or grey or classical green eyes just isn't right.
I'm kinda trying to figure out why Emily keeps bringing up specifically Romanian women? It's like she has something against me and thinks that if she posts photos up of unattractive Romanian women with big noses, it must mean I am an unattractive Romanian woman with a big nose or something.
Luckily, I don't take any of that crap personally because well its kind of hard to since Emily never saw me before. But it seems Emily takes everything anyone says against Swedes personally, so she feels she has to attack other people by trying to insult their ethnicity.
It's also funny how Emily and Cecilia will trash German women too. haha No one is as good as the Swedes are they?
Whats funny is that Emily thinks a fellow Swede looks Russian. She just doesn't understand the reason many Scandinavians look that way is because they too, just like Russians do, have a non-Nordic element to their features because they are not 100% Nordic! I doubt you will find any population that is pure. Even the supposed purest of the pure have Asiatic admixture! Haha 10% Non-Nordic to be exact. That's kind of large considering their supposed "pureness".
And Cecilia has mentioned that Scandinavians do not look like Germans even though they are Germanic! DUH! They have a whole different Asiatic element to them taht Germans do not display or do so on a lower frequency. You will find less Germans with what seems to be a type of epicanthal folds, or that round face you so often actually DO see among SCANDINAVIANS!
And the VIKINGS are known for being very tall, husky, big boned, and hairy btw. That's including the women...
Romanian women with slanting foreheads. Very common. It does look masculine, I think, and tend to make the typically Romanian large and hooked nose look even bigger.
Some have a finer and more "Nordic" face shape with better forehead and chin development, and they could have looked so much better with a smaller nose. The large nose seems to be very persistent. So many have them. An over-sized nose can look OK on men since they are masculine, but not on women.
Here we also see the typical olive eye colour that many of them call "green". It is not typical for Scandinavians but rather frequently seen in Mediterranean people and Romanians..
As for the slanting forehead it is most often seen on non-Nordic women of Eastern and South European descent, and of course in the Middle East, which attributes to their overall masculine appearance.
Before
After
Before
After
Before
After
Regarding Asian noses, they qualify only when they approach the Nordic nose in appearance, and this is proven by the fact that the Asian fetishists here often post photos of Asians with noses that have a non-typically high nose bridge.
As we all know the typical Asian nose is flat from the side, with a very weak nose bridge, and is often also too broad, especially on South East Asians.
All you do is make the case that the mongoloid nose shape is unattractive, and noses that look more Nordic and less asian are more appealing on Asians. So, where does that contradict Erik's conclusions here, VC? Asian promoters' own argument in fact supports it. lol
What you do is saying "we can have good nose bridges too". Sure, but it is hardly the norm, or what most asians have. In fact, creating a nose bridge is one of the absolutely most popular plastic surgeries on Asians.
The photos VC posted look like a gallery of pubescent girls that might attract white pedophiles. Rather creepy.
By the way, I noticed the very unappealing greenish-yellowish skin colour asians often have in more natural, candid photos, so it makes sense to use that artificial lighting they love as it completely conceals their true skin tone.
"The last pictures you posted are of girls who don't look ethnically like Swedes. Not the blond ones, and not the last one, of course. The blonde girl looks very Eastern European (The face shape, "puffy Asiatic" cheeks, weak chin, lower, somewhat slanting forehead, and the typical olive eye colour you find among E. Europeans or S. Europeans) and the other one looks like she might have black admixture. Very weird non-descript face.
I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here, but it was not representative photos at all, unless your intent was to show ethnically mixed people."
I know she looks russian xD. My point was'nt for those last pictures to be reprensentive but to show athat we have 2 big models in my tiny tiny school and that says something about the north. (That models and very beautiful people are so common here). I've always thought she looks like a russian too but she's not of russian heritage strangely. Which also can prove how various looks people in Sweden can have. The other girl is just so increadably pretty and I love her lips. Well I guess that's her gift as a half greek half swede. :)
Cecilia,
The last pictures you posted are of girls who don't look ethnically like Swedes. Not the blond ones, and not the last one, of course. The blonde girl looks very Eastern European (The face shape, "puffy Asiatic" cheeks, weak chin, lower, somewhat slanting forehead, and the typical olive eye colour you find among E. Europeans or S. Europeans) and the other one looks like she might have black admixture. Very weird non-descript face.
I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here, but it was not representative photos at all, unless your intent was to show ethnically mixed people.
Grr I'm driving myself crazy, I write too fast. I'll just let it be now, and I don't care if you criticize my spelling. :P
"Funny thing is that almsost no one in her class knows she(the last girl, i'm not saying her name)is a model in new yourk and like famous, a guy from the class under mine were hanging out with me and my friends one day and he found out and he didn't belive us. He was shocked."
Jesus Christ have I become 5 years old?
*A funny thing is that almost no one in her class, knows she(the last girl, I'm not telling you her name) is a model in New York and sort of famous. And nobody knew she hanged out with big swedish musicians. A guy from the class below mine was haning out with me and my friends in school one day not long ago and in some way we started talking about her being a model. At first he didn't believe us but then we showd him modelling photos and compared them with the ones on her facebook and he got very shocked.
Oops I did it again.
*extremely
*you
*famous
*it is from them the name "Russia" comes from. They were called "Rus" because they came from "Roslagen" which lies in the north of Sweden.
*which I haven't shown you
Well, I guess you still understand what I'm saying.
Oooops I read through my text and saw what big spelling errors it contained.
I know for example that it's spelled "extreamly" and OF COURSE I know it's spelled "New York".
I'm too sloppy with my spelling even though I know what's right and which formulation that sounds better.
"The typical german look you post here is only SEVEN WOMEN. You nordic fetishists are so extreme that you'll even attack people even closer to you than slavs, romanians, etc. You people are beyond repugnant."
I've bin to Germany many times and you know, even though we're both germanic, we DO NOT LOOK exactly the same. There are small differances in the nordic countries also(in Finland there are bigger differances of course since they are a baltic people to some extent), but that takes a person coming from here to see.
Attack? Some germans are really beautiful and I like the people, but their noses are on average are not very beautiful. VERY few people in the north think they resembe germans, and as a foreigner you don't see that because everything looks the same to you as long as it's blonde, white and blue-eyed doesn't it? It was a response to Visitor(Godis)'s post:""If swedish girls have robust nose, than the noses of other girls are even more robust. That's the point"
This is simply not true. German women or Irish women for example do not have robust noses on average. If you were to compare the Germans and the Swedes, the Swedes would have more robust noses. This is the conclusion I draw from the analysis of Emily's photos and photos in general of Swedes on the net."
And C'mon swedes have more robust noses than germans? Well i'm guessing you just took my part out so you could twist and turn this your angle.
I agree with Callmewhateveryouwant's theory. The biggest mass rape ever occcured efter World war two in Germany when the russians got revenge by raping all the girls and women so it's not very strange that has affected the bloodlines and looks of people.
Btw, "EVEN CLOSER"??? If you belive slavs and romanians are close to nothern people you must be crazy.
"Tell me, what are your opinions on the beauty of Danes, Norwegians, and Icelanders? I never see the nordic fetishists say much of them"
They look so extreamly alike to us swedes that we don't even bring them up individually. That's why we say nothern people and not swedish people...if you haven't understood that yet lol. We would be dumb if we and you(well since you did it not meaning the rest of the north you are kind of dumb) kept on saying "nordic people" when we only meant swedish people. The reason for example Emily takes swedish girls as examples is that swedish people are the climax of the nordic race. Most people here are beautiful.
"Show some proof that there were major viking incursions centuries ago into Russia, and that the physical traits from them managed to propogate amongst the so-called "better looking" russian women."
Swedish vikings created Kiev and is from them the name "Russia" comes from becuase they were called "Rus" becuase they came from "Roslagen" which lays in the north of Sweden.
Well if you look at the original slavic look, dark hair, dark eyes the rough jawline and so on it's very obvious that they have bin improved with swedish blonde hair and blue eyes and the finer nordic draws.
"Proof"
The photo art photo comes from a danish "viking art" photographer called njordfoto and the woman(which I strongly belive is her) is in MANY of her other photos and she is just as beautiful there. Belive it or not, but we have actual beautiful people here in Scandinavia.
http://www.myspace.com/njordfoto
The rest are NORDIC models from nordic model companies, famous swedish people or other pictures taken from nordic websites who own them.
You know? Nobody really cares if ypu find these women unattractive because I know they are. For the amateur photos, they are of average swedish people with beauty, the girl who you said had acne and a large jaw and such is a teen model. She had many beautiful photos on her blogg with I don't show you.
You know what? I can post hundreds an hundreds of photos and you still won't agree with me because you are so obviously jealus of that most people here have an average beauty and that there are so many extreamly beautiful people here.
These girls goes to my school of 200 people(the second girl is swedish/greek):
Funny thing is that almsost no one in her class knows she(the last girl, i'm not saying her name)is a model in new yourk and like famous, a guy from the class under mine were hanging out with me and my friends one day and he found out and he didn't belive us. He was shocked.
Erik Holland,
I find the contentions about the Marquardt Mask lacking in contextual adhesiveness and also demonstrative of someone lacking background in artistic analysis.
Your refutation revolves around isolated preference studies. Although I have no issue with the findings of the studies you state, you can't string or patchwork pieces of information having to do with parts of the face, as you have done, to refute the whole. The whole context of golden ratio analysis relates to the WHOLE of something and how all the parts, as balanced, contribute to the 'gestalt' of the whole. His whole body of work as it is demonstrated in the mask can not be refuted via the isolated 'parts' (studies) you have introduced to do so.
With regard to Class 2 profile preferences you contend he builds into his female mask. You do NOT differentiate the salient aspect of a class 2 profile from a prominent anteriorly projected chin. Class 2 is when the lower lip protrudes beyond the upper lip. It is not only a matter of the chin being forward. Although the profile mask depicts a stronger chin for the female; one which might have more anterior projection, this does not classify it as a "Class 2" like profile. You would need to demonstrate the mask portrayed a lower lip position similar to a class 2 profile to keep congruent with the contention you have.
With regard to eyebrow position and shape, they are a function of how anteriorly projected the brow bone/upper orbital rim area of the brow bone is. More anterior projection in that region will have the brows PROJECT lower on a 2-D plane. What the mask is effectively 'saying' is that there is a preference for anterior projection to the female forehead. Something, with which the brows will project lower on the face. It is quite different from having a posteriorly inclined forehead or an under projected one, in which case, brow position is set higher. If you check some of your isolated studies, I'm sure you will find that..
With regard to your contention of the nasion "not" being set at mid pupil level on his mask, I question how you made that observation given that a straight horizontal line can be drawn to intersect the nasio frontal angle in that mask and cut right through mid-pupil level.
In essence none of your observations fit the context of how one would go about making the type of refutation you are trying to make. You contend: "Marquardt’s mask is shown to be inconsistent with what most people actually prefer." What most people "actually prefer" comes from studies having to do with (isolated) PARTS of things and has little bearing of what they would prefer when it comes to the WHOLE of things; ALL the parts of a face, evaluated together on the WHOLE FACE. So your 'summing up the parts' type argument here runs counter to the whole concept of evaluating the WHOLE; not by the sum of it's parts (or in your case the sum of parts from other places!) and that's why I find your stance disembodied.
In essence, his mask is an 'Eigen' diagram relating to what preferences would be to the whole face if viewed in entirety. It is based on what preferences are: SUBLIMINAL preferences for the type of faces one sees on models. It's hard to refute subliminal preferences with the type of conscious choice preferences you have cited to do so. Why? In essence, people DO prefer 'model' like faces on a subliminal level. If they did not, the type of model faces he has based his mask on would not be used in mass media which do indeed appeal to people on a subliminal level. If they did not, they would not be used to market fashion and beauty products. Model faces are those in which one 'part' might be isolated and shown as a non preference BUT for which the WHOLE 'works' which is precisely what golden ratio analysis is about.
Although I don't use his mask, many of my own independent findings (yes, also based on model faces) about ratio relationships of the parts relating back to the whole do cross reference with golden ratio geometry and aesthetic theory based on it and very much overlap with his assessments. I use them to assess whether or not a face can or can not be made 'beautiful' or 'like a model' as there are some 'core ratios' that if not present to the face, preclude the individual ever looking 'like a model' no matter how much plastic surgery they get in that attempt. Many of the ratios I have isolated, when used to design an 'ideal face'; the act of constructing or drawing one with the same ratios, fit perfectly into his mask.
Golden ratio relationships are used by ARTISTS to design something and very much can be found via an astute eye analyzing a work of art if you know how and where to look for those relationships. However, for the most part, those very relationships are best appreciated by the observer by LIKING the work of art on a 'gut' level or a subliminal level. The very act of producing a work of art of great visual appeal, eg. designing a face in the case of master sculptors or artists who did that involves 'hiding where the golden ratio is'. When it's there and in the 'right' places, you, the viewer, will have a favorable reaction (a liking) to the look of the WHOLE of the work.
Likewise with the human face, when the golden ratio relationships are there, you will have a favorable reaction to the face as a WHOLE and DESPITE a 'part' that you might not like if isolated in a study aimed at isolating parts and choosing preferences for those isolated parts.
Golden ratio design, especially regarding the human face is aimed at "delighting the eye", one of the very things that plastic surgeons have in their ideological thinking as NOT being the aim of what they do: 'To improve or make whole again but NOT to delight the eye'. So, it is no surprise to me that much of the way they go about analyzing a face would NOT incorporate a type of golden ratio analysis or 'Eigen face' mask of such that is predicated in 'delighting the eye' and hence no surprise to me that your article would be embraced by that audience.
If you wanted to refute his aesthetic theory that the mask fits "beautiful" faces what you would need to do is actually USE it demonstrate:
A: It fits "ugly" or "unattractive" faces just as well.
B: "beautiful" faces don't fit into it at all
Something you would need to do by actually using WHOLE faces as opposed to snippets of studies showing preferences for placement of isolated parts. You have not done that. Hence, I'm refuting your refutation of his findings.
Callmewhateveryouwant:
"I wonder what's not overrated in your opinion."
It's hard to explain.
"Whites indeed have big (high) noses. So far most of the pictures brought by the opposition display surgically altered asians with a somehow higher nose bridge."
True. The "opposition" in this regard isn't particularly well informed. Then again, neither is the nordic worshipping side.
"Even the asian girls that you are showing don't have that flat nose."
It depends on what you define as "that flat nose". Very flat noses with almost no projection are more common among east asians, certainly. Then again, strongly projecting noses are more common caucasoid populations, nordic, mediterranean, middle eastern etc. regardless. I believe such a trait is a typical ethnic extremity of all such populations, but I'm not sure how to quantify that at this point.
"Well, I will not affirm that they had plastic surgery,"
Good. I won't either.
"but I can affirm that there is a correlation between a higher nose and beauty."
Perhaps, but what if the nose is too high, as seen with a woman like this?
http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/ss346/GGGooodddiiisss/nose4.jpg
Of course it could be another aspect of her nose that makes it appear too masculine. It'd only be possible to get an idea of this if one looked at the physiological limits of nose bridge height among humans and see where you can go from there. But I don't really know. The sort of "low nose bridge" I see amongst east asians doesn't look bad at all to me. East asians frequently spoke lowly of the higher nose bridges seen among whites.
"Somehow your asian girls approach a more ainu look; hence, a vague caucasian resemblance."
I don't really see this. Plus, ainu more closely resemble native americans. They higher nose bridges sure, but their noses are generally about as "flat" as the japanese. I have seen a number of ainu with heavily projecting noses, however. A "vague" cacausian appearance, perhaps, but this comes back to how these sorts of discussions assume europeans, specifically northern europeans, don't have their own ethnic extremities.
I will repeat- it is not wrong to say that one ethnic group is more attractive than another, but what is of interest is how many ethnic features of a particular ethnic group will be "lost" in a universal beauty standard, however that may be defined.
"It's ridiculous. Of course they have oversized heads."
Again. This is an aspect of body symmetry. It's been detailed extensively on this site before. A woman with a large head on a small body will have an "oversized head", but on a proportionately larger, taller body, it'll look just fine. Vice versa holds true with a woman with a small head.
Plus, I was mainly addressing how some people, like you, were saying their larger jaws and cheekbones make a face more masculine. (they don't.)
"I'm not supposed to say."
Why?
"Back in time germans used to be fully nordic corcerning "race". All get messed up when a bunch of melon headed polish and slavics got inside. Northern germans are nordics (althoug going to be extinct too) and southern germans are submitted dinarics and alpines. Eastern germans are mixed with slavic."
What do you mean by melon headed? How do you quantify these kinds of migrations? Whether or not poles and slavs or whatever have more prominent, or more overtly convex noses doesn't matter in terms of ethnic features among whites, as I've said before.
"Another victory for envy."
No, these are my honest opinions. Maybe some of these women really are considered highly attractive by a good deal of people, but not so much to me.
Oh hey, differing tastes. And I genuinely doubt a number of those women can even be considered moderately attractive. Plus, some of those photos were of poor quality.
By the way- I found an interesting diagram detailing the differences in browridge size between asians and europeans, as seen here: http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu253/Tyranos/Mongoloideyes.jpg
Which I remember Emily furiously denying when I brought up.
Also, my 4th image collage died- here it is, again:
Only in your view. In MY opinion, white women in general, both in terms of "averages" and those deemed attractive, are very overrated.
I wonder what's not overrated in your opinion.
Alot of asians, both modern and pre-contact, have knocked on the looks of whites by saying things like them having "big noses". These things are pretty relative to me, but at times, when you compare an attractive east asian ethnic nose to an attractive nordic ethnic nose, the nordic nose type just stypes me as being too sharp, at times.
Whites indeed have big (high) noses. So far most of the pictures brought by the opposition display surgically altered asians with a somehow higher nose bridge.
Even the asian girls that you are showing don't have that flat nose. Well, I will not affirm that they had plastic surgery, but I can affirm that there is a correlation between a higher nose and beauty. Somehow your asian girls approach a more ainu look; hence, a vague caucasian resemblance.
than whites, one example of them having big, rugged heads. (even though the overall ruggedness didn't differ)
It's ridiculous. Of course they have oversized heads.
And finally Callmewhateveryouwant, just what is your ethnic background?
I'm not supposed to say.
The typical german look you post here is only SEVEN WOMEN. You nordic fetishists are so extreme that you'll even attack people even closer to you than slavs, romanians, etc. You people are beyond repugnant.
Back in time germans used to be fully nordic corcerning "race". All get messed up when a bunch of melon headed polish and slavics got inside. Northern germans are nordics (althoug going to be extinct too) and southern germans are submitted dinarics and alpines. Eastern germans are mixed with slavic.
Another victory for Swedish beauty!
Another victory for envy.
Other Emily: Thank you.
Callmewhateveryouwant
"I have brought tons of pictures and comparative examples to show why I stand for nordic beauty."
Which doesn't compare to you saying "nordics are blessed".
"Nordics are not overrated. Nothing in this world gets more overrated than italians."
Only in your view. In MY opinion, white women in general, both in terms of "averages" and those deemed attractive, are very overrated.
"I have never heard a person saying that they preffer asians because they have sunken noses and flat faces."
Alot of asians, both modern and pre-contact, have knocked on the looks of whites by saying things like them having "big noses". These things are pretty relative to me, but at times, when you compare an attractive east asian ethnic nose to an attractive nordic ethnic nose, the nordic nose type just stypes me as being too sharp, at times.
"that's why the asian pictures brought by the opposition deviate so much from the average."
Ok, here's some examples, which I've posted before (but only showed up as a link because I was using IE). But, I should note that I don't find all of these women highly attractive, and especially moderately attractive, but they have general ethnic features that IMO, look just fine, and bring to mind how some people, a month ago, were screaming at how east asians aren't more feminine, ON AVERAGE, than whites, one example of them having big, rugged heads. (even though the overall ruggedness didn't differ)
First off, jaw and cheekbone size has NOTHING to do with overall femininity or masculinity. As shown on this site, the neoteny that affected human evolution did so primarily with the shape of the cranium, not the face. I've been in communication with a prominent LA plastic surgeon via email on some of these issues, and he agrees with that point- it's just that certain sizes of the cheekbones are more prone to certain facial shape extremities, IE overtly around faces amongst east asians, overtly long, narrow faces amongst whites etc.
A few other things to mention- not all of these women have good noses, or symmetrical facial features, or good teeth, but the trend is clear in terms of femininity having *nothing* to do with jaw and cheekbone size, along with these general ethnic traits looking just fine.
I didn't make these collages. The women in the first collage, well, some of them look like teenagers, and the inclusion of Donald Rumsfeld is obviously a joke. I'm just mainly making a point about general ethnic features (nose structure, mandibular structure and facial size etc.) in contrast to how the "opposition" supposedly only shows very white looking asians.
And finally Callmewhateveryouwant, just what is your ethnic background?
Cecilia:
Dear god. At first I thought you were Emily, but I don't know. Maybe you really are befitting of the moniker "Emily clone". The general behavior, the hardcore nordic elitism, the idiotic comments about european history.
I mean GOD, look what you said awhile back:
" Submitted by Cecilia on Thu, 09/17/2009 - 09:30.
Sorry but germans are known for having ugly noses...
The typical german look:"
The typical german look you post here is only SEVEN WOMEN. You nordic fetishists are so extreme that you'll even attack people even closer to you than slavs, romanians, etc. You people are beyond repugnant.
In regards to your overall comment, though:
"So true, slavic women and models are also overrated, it's like, your countries are HUGE, of course you manage to produce some models. And slavic "beauty" is SO overrated, it's not BEAUTIFUL."
Yeah, it's so HUGE, and yet you scumbags like to make such freakish generalizations about their average attractiveness, compared to the tiny, tiny population of Sweden.
Tell me, what are your opinions on the beauty of Danes, Norwegians, and Icelanders? I never see the nordic fetishists say much of them.
"All the really beautiful russian women and models(the one who don't look extreamly slavic like the people real Russia) have traits from the swedish vikings who settled there."
Show some proof that there were major viking incursions centuries ago into Russia, and that the physical traits from them managed to propogate amongst the so-called "better looking" russian women. I doubt you can. Much like Emily's ideas of so many attractive east asians being mixed (which is impossible to prove, because there's no basis for it), the idea of romanians having a bunch of gypsy admixture, czechs being quite ugly in reality and only looking better because of germanic introgression. (oh, but fellow nordic fetishist cecilia thanks germans are "well known" for having ugly noses.)
"HOW can you even compare slavic "beauty". LOL the second one won Miss World, can you belive that??:"
Considering how international beauty pageants are dominated by homosexual men with crude notions of female beauty (which Erik seems to have documented well enough), I don't see how this is representative of slavs at large.
Unless you want to be consistent with this idiocy and use all of the androgynous white models, largely from america, which is largely of northern european extraction, as representative of "white beauty". (oh, i forgot- since alot of us white americans are of german descent, we must have ugly noses too! what now?)
"With nordic beauty:"
How do you even know all of these women are of nordic descent? The first 2 look quite manly- in fact, the first one has a pretty obvious browridge.
The third woman is seen at a poor angle, with poor lighting, so I can't make much of her.
The fourth woman is pretty, but doesn't appeal too much to me.
The fifth woman isn't anything special, and has some pretty unattractive lips.
The sixth woman's photo has terrible lighting. I can barely make her face out. The lighting makes her look like she has rosacea.
The seventh woman isn't very attractive and looks rather masculine.
The eight woman is also unattractive and looks kind of like these "slavic beauties" you deride.
But yeah, I must be some kind of asian fetishist pedophile to not see the universal beauty of these nordic demigodesses. (which you give NO EVIDENCE a single one of them is scandinavian)
I am a racist idiot: You contribute nothing to these conversations. I mean my god, the second woman you post is a blatant photoshop. Are you retarded?
Cecilia again:
"Btw, those where nordic models, artists and such, NOT photoshoped. The only picture which is remade is the sixth,(the girl isn't remade) and it's only the colours and tones that has bin changes becuase it's photo art."
Proof?
"Yeah, I knoow, normal swedish girls are SOOO ugly:"
The first woman is average, and has a large jaw and large cheekbones. (hey, a trait typical to east asians.)
The second woman... jesus, do you consider her attractive? She has poor lips and poorly complexioned skin. Her cheekbones look kind of masculine too.
The third woman, her mouth is MASSIVE and VERY unbalanced compared to the rest of her face. Not a good trait IMO.
The fourth girl has a rather snubbed nose and her chin doesn't seem too prominent. Either way, not attractive to me.
The fifth girl looks average, and the lighting is poor. I also seem to nice acne.
The sixth woman is taken at a rather poor angle, and doesn't look that great to me even then.
The sixth woman is cute, but not much to my liking.
The seventh woman is seen at nothing more than a profile shot, and even then she looks rather masculine.
The 8th picture is just some people at a dinner table, and I can't make out their faces well.
Another victory for Swedish beauty!
Btw, those where nordic models, artists and such, NOT photoshoped. The only picture which is remade is the sixth,(the girl isn't remade) and it's only the colours and tones that has bin changes becuase it's photo art.
Ignore him. He's just trolling. Even he (she) probally doesn't believe in what he's talking about himself.
Wow you truly are a lovely person :).
Btw, those where nordic models, artists and such, NOT photoshoped. The only picture which is remade is the sixth,(the girl isn't remade) and it's only the colours and tones that has bin changes becuase it's photo art.
Yeah, I knoow, normal swedish girls are SOOO ugly:
It's only bigoted morons that would cherry pick photoshopped pictures and claim that they're really swedes.
Here are my favourite Swedish beauties. Enjoy! Hahahaha
Swedish beauty Malena Ernman
Lovely Nordic Blonde
""Maybe it's because the "beauty" of nordic women is insanely overrated"
Nordics are not overrated. Nothing in this world gets more overrated than italians."
So true, slavic women and models are also overrated, it's like, your countries are HUGE, of course you manage to produce some models. And slavic "beauty" is SO overrated, it's not BEAUTIFUL. All the really beautiful russian women and models(the one who don't look extreamly slavic like the people real Russia) have traits from the swedish vikings who settled there.
HOW can you even compare slavic "beauty". LOL the second one won Miss World, can you belive that??:
alt="Image" />
With nordic beauty:
And btw, haha, I found this on a russian pride site. Above it said "The mysterious charm of russian beauty". And this is SO OBVIOUSLY nordic beauty, a woman who decent from the north orginally. She looks like the type example of a nordic person with scandinavian cheekbones and everything. Ironic.
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